Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum 

Excellent point!   I hadn't even considered that!  So, it isn't only Touch UI issues and missing features like maros -- inaccessable OS features like the File System, Document Sharing, etc. could be insurmountable hurdles to successful implementation on iDevices and possibly Android devices.

There's an issue that I keep bringing up in various sites that is mostly being ignored.

The Desktop for Win 8 isn't that much different from the Desktop in Win 7, or anything before, other than for the flattening (and amazingly boring, and cheap looking) of all UI elements in Win 8. Otherwise, except for the removal of the start button to the MUI, it's pretty much the same.

Now, for those who used them, or just remember what was written about them, those 13-15.4" convertables that were being sold as Windows tablets for all those years weren't very popular because of three things. One was the price, as they were expensive. More than a standard laptop. Two was because they were big and heavy. Hard to use a "tablet" that weighs 3.5-7 pounds on your arm.

And three was the real biggie! It's almost Impossible to use windows, and its software, with a stylus on a "small" 13-15.4" screen. Note those sizes.

So now what have they come up with? 10.6-11.6" screens! Hey! How are these going to be easier to use? Well, they obviously won't be. So every "tablet" will either come with a keyboard, or will have one available from the manufacturer. You pretty much HAVE to use a keyboard and touchpad with the Desktop. No choice, really. It's almost impossible to go about in any other way.

Anyone here want to use OS X on a 10" screen with your finger, or a stylus? They also need more screen accuracy, to use that stylus with the tiny touch points there are, so a lot of these things will have a resistive layer as well as a capacitive layer. Not because its a great feature the iPad doesn't have, but the extra accuracy of a resistive screen is a requirement.

People will just love all of this, I think.

Yeah... and I can put you into one of these little beauties for just $2,500...  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 


There are ways around this. Office could come as one app, with tappable buttons for the other portions. Besides, what is meant by suites of apps? I have several apps that qualify as suites. You have a main menu, and from that you select which app in the suite you want. You can purchase more apps for the suite as you need.
I'm sure the developer could assign common memory storage for the suite so that figures from a spreadsheet could be used in a word processor or presentation app. Apple chose to not do it that way so that they could sell the suite one at a time. Microsoft may choose differently.
Look up AudioTools for one. That definitely qualifies as a suite.

 

Yeah, it comes down to "what is a suite?" of course, and depending on how you define it, a "suite" could certainly be fudged into iOS.  It would likely not be workable with something as complex as Office is though and would require a rewrite of all the base apps anyway.  I am 99% certain that at some point in the process of boiling down all that complexity, that someone would see the simpler, clearer solution of doing separate apps like Apple has instead.  

 

Technically apps can now talk to each other and send things to each other also so the original "ban" on suites of inter-related apps is not quite moot but getting there.  

 

I just don't see Microsoft doing this at all though.  It makes no sense for them to make a "proper" touch-enabled Word app for iOS until they can make one for Metro and everything they have shown so far indicates that they are having no luck at all in doing that.  As I said, I seriously doubt they have the talent to make a "post-PC" Office at all.    Their phone software is capable, and their existing iOS apps are "ok" but there is no excitement there.  

 

Microsoft hasn't made anything (software wise), that would make anyone go "wow" for decades now IMO.  They still get the press when they make their announcements, but it's just been one PoS after another since almost Windows XP days.  

I agree!

I guess it comes down to this:  

• Will the Windows RT tablet have enough appeal to wedge MS Office (and other apps?) into the real tablet, post-PC world.
• Will the Windows 8 Surface have enough appeal sell a pseudo-tablet as an alternative to a Windows 8 Laptop.
• Will Window 8 have enough appeal to replace Windows 7 on desktop and laptop PCs?
• Will all of this be DOA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum 

 

I agree!

 

I guess it comes down to this:  

• Will the Windows RT tablet have enough appeal to wedge MS Office (and other apps?) into the real tablet, post-PC world.
• Will the Windows 8 Surface have enough appeal sell a pseudo-tablet as an alternative to a Windows 8 Laptop.
• Will Window 8 have enough appeal to replace Windows 7 on desktop and laptop PCs?
• Will all of this be DOA?

Tune in next week, same Bat-channel, same Bat-time to find out. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkral 

This is great news. I will be buy Office for iPad the day it comes out. The Apple office apps are good, especially Keynote & Pages, but Numbers is just not good enough for a lot of people. It's a very simplified version of Excel. I think that this is a pretty big deal & will result in a lot of sales for Microsoft. What company that is using iPads wouldn't equip their sales people (or whoever they are giving the iPads to) with mobile versions of office? This will be great for Microsoft on the softwre side & great for Apple on the hardware side. 

I saw Excel running on a Samscum tablet and it was still relying on drop-down menus pretty heavily. I suspect that MS Office will be a better viewer of documents than a way of creating them because MS still has got a keyboard stuck crosswise in their brains. Also, when you touch a cell it opens for you to edit it... however it remains at the size it was in the screen view... not enlarging for editing. Therefore the operator had to poke at the tiny image several times to hit it in the right place to edit. I was shocked at the number of touches it took to get to a level of choices to accomplish most things.

How about Microsoft goes all the way and splits the company apart to unlock value for the shareholders?

-Tablet/phone/PC OS

-Server OS/SQL Server/Sharepoint (or maybe server OS with the first company)

-Bing

-Xbox

-Office

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

Actually, it is impossible for Office to be on iOS. Unless I missed the change, suites of apps are specifically disallowed.
 

Huh, since when?

I've got both QuickOffice and DocstoGo which are both office suites.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quickoffice-pro/id310723177

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/documents-to-go-premium-office/id317107309

AppBox is also a bundle of apps

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/appbox-pro-swiss-army-knife/id318404385

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

If this rumor turns out to actually be true, Microsoft's tablet and phone sales are DOA. The only possible way they can get a foothold in the tablet market at this point is to leverage Office as a unique "advantage" on the platform. It's not a guaranty or success, but it's really their only chance right now. Throwing that away by producing versions for other mobile platforms, would be giving up the fight for Win 8 tablets and phones before it even starts.

They have had various mobile office suites tied to their mobile OS's for around a decade, they use it as a differentiator...

...it hasn't really worked, the results speak for themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macky the Macky 

 

Even Microsoft isn't betting that heavy on Office RT with the ARM processor

Rock 

Arm with 4G

Intel Atom without 4G

Hard place 

Quote:

Originally Posted by umrk_lab 

They had no choice.. LibreOffice is coming to IOS, too...

More precisely ...

LibreOffice, the project forked from OpenOffice.org, is moving into the modern era with developers working on versions that run in Web browsers and on iOS and Android devices.

The Document Foundation announced the moves today at the LibreOffice Conference, but the work isn't available yet for ordinary folks to try.

"These are not products available to end users, but advanced development projects which will become products sometimes in late 2012 or early 2013," the foundation said today.

Still, the work shows signs that the project, which never seriously threatened the strength ofMicrosoft Office, is working to remain modern in a computing industry no longer dominated just by personal computers.

The LibreOffice Online prototype uses the GTK+ software framework, HTML's new Canvas interface for 2D graphics, and the Web Socket interface for high-speed communications between a browser and a server. Michael Meeks of the Suse Linux project is leading the project, the foundation said.

Another Suse programmer, Tor Lillqvist, is working on versions for Android and iOS tablets with the hope that the software will arrive on smaller devices.

"The user interface work has yet to start in earnest but the bulk of the code is compiling," the foundation said of the work.

The foundation also announced that several French government agencies are switching 500,000 computers, mostly Windows machines, from OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice. "This increases the Windows installed base of LibreOffice by 5 percent in a single move," the foundation said.

OpenOffice was an open-source Sun Microsystems project that hung in limbo for months after the Oracle acquisition. Some programmers, frustrated with the situation, struck off on their own with a new variation. Afterward, though, Oracle handed the OpenOffice.org project over to the Apache Software Foundation, a respected open-source oversight body, with the result being that programming, marketing, support, and other work is divided among two separate but similar projects.

Linux sellers including Red Hat, Suse, and Ubuntu have thrown their support behind LibreOffice, for example, but IBM decided to contribute to OpenOffice.org.

Quote:

Originally Posted by umrk_lab 

 

 

More precisely ...

 

 

 

LibreOffice, the project forked from OpenOffice.org, is moving into the modern era with developers working on versions that run in Web browsers and on iOS and Android devices.

The Document Foundation announced the moves today at the LibreOffice Conference, but the work isn't available yet for ordinary folks to try.

"These are not products available to end users, but advanced development projects which will become products sometimes in late 2012 or early 2013," the foundation said today.

Still, the work shows signs that the project, which never seriously threatened the strength ofMicrosoft Office, is working to remain modern in a computing industry no longer dominated just by personal computers.

The LibreOffice Online prototype uses the GTK+ software framework, HTML's new Canvas interface for 2D graphics, and the Web Socket interface for high-speed communications between a browser and a server. Michael Meeks of the Suse Linux project is leading the project, the foundation said.

Another Suse programmer, Tor Lillqvist, is working on versions for Android and iOS tablets with the hope that the software will arrive on smaller devices.

"The user interface work has yet to start in earnest but the bulk of the code is compiling," the foundation said of the work.

The foundation also announced that several French government agencies are switching 500,000 computers, mostly Windows machines, from OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice. "This increases the Windows installed base of LibreOffice by 5 percent in a single move," the foundation said.

OpenOffice was an open-source Sun Microsystems project that hung in limbo for months after the Oracle acquisition. Some programmers, frustrated with the situation, struck off on their own with a new variation. Afterward, though, Oracle handed the OpenOffice.org project over to the Apache Software Foundation, a respected open-source oversight body, with the result being that programming, marketing, support, and other work is divided among two separate but similar projects.

Linux sellers including Red Hat, Suse, and Ubuntu have thrown their support behind LibreOffice, for example, but IBM decided to contribute to OpenOffice.org.

That might meet the same fate as VLC on iOS, some "advocate" will whine about the source code not being available in order to meet licensing requirements and it will be withdrawn.

Another thing about open office was it's heavy reliance on Java, a known security risk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by umrk_lab 

... LibreOffice, the project forked from OpenOffice.org, is moving into the modern era with developers working on versions that run ... on iOS and Android devices. ...

This will basically never happen.  

It has about as much chance of happening as desktop Linux has of "conquering the desktop" which also never happened after 15 years or so of it being "just around the corner," or "happening next year."   

Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 


I agree. Despite those here who think anything Microsoft is a waste of time, Office really is a pretty important piece of software. But they had better do this soon. March is fine. But a lot of users are finding that they don't need office on their tablets because of the apps that give compatability in some way. If they wait too long, those users will find that maybe they don't need Office at all.
After all, most word processing, spreadsheet work, and presentations can be done with Apple's apps now. Remember the old saying about Office, 80% of the users only use 20% of the features. If Apple, or some other company can get those 20% nailed, then those 80% won't need Office (assuming, of course, that they all need that same 20%). So to cover most people, all it really needs is perhaps 30% of the features.
So Office will be great, but not if they wait too long.

I disagree.

Office perpetuates Microsofts strangulation of openness. You really need to do some research and understand their philosophy.

Its all about control. That is why Office was pushed so hard so that everyone can only exchange .doc and now .docx word files.

This is so wrong.

Unless you are a boring accountant type who needs Excel, there are many alternatives out there for the majority of the people.

I am now Microsoft-free and loving it. If someone wants me to send a .doc or .xls file, I will tell them accept my PDF or get lost.

The Surface "tables" will be the start of the end of Microsoft (and about time).

There will be 2 "tablets", one ARM and one Intel, the later will be heavier and higher specifications.

As I understand it, both will accept input via: touch, mouse, stylus, keyboard (physical/virtual) and touch pad.

How in the heck will this work ? Windows has enough trouble as it is, how will it differentiate from the various input modes ?

How fluent will it be (in the cross over from input modes) ?

To be able to run Office on a tablet efficiently a mouse will be required. So by definition these are not tablets, but miniature Netbooks. Seriously, it even has a kick-stand

and fold away keyboard. IT IS NOT A TABLET.

Come on people, lets stop describing the Surface as a tablet, it not, and if you do, you are simply perpetuating this hoax.

What about Mr & Mrs Consumer, those that are not so tech-savvy, how in the world will they know which one to buy ?

I speculated on a hypothetical situation on a site ages ago, so don't feel like repeating myself, but basically will say this, the average consumer will be hoodwinked to the nth degree and I feel sorry for them. It will be a disaster for everyone.

I'm going to love this, as yet again Microsoft screw up, but this time it will Vista look like a walk in the park. I can't wait.

Well, it seems that the carreer of this product manager at Microsoft will not perform very well (at least as long as Monkey Boy is here)  , because I heard that Microsoft finally denied this.....

I would like to add that, when I moved from PC to Mac for my personal usage, the existence of the OpenOffice was a key decision factor. I indeed wanted to reuse the various personal applications I had developed in Excel, and also be able to process files created in my professional PC environment.

At that time, just as a matter of principle, I did not want to pay the extravagant price Microsoft was asking for the Office suite on Mac.

Initially, with OpenOffice, I had to accept not being able to use my VBA code, but this is no longer the case with LibreOffice.

I think my case is not isolated, and that many people start from the same requirements when choosing their Office Suite on Mac.

of course, I have also bought Pages & Numbers, but I only use Pages to edit my iBook on the iBook store (Pages is able to create ePub files).

Microsoft terms talk of Office on iPad 'inaccurate'

Microsoft on Wednesday disavowed comments made by its Czech subsidiary that the company will roll out iOS and Android apps of its Office suite early next year.

“The information shared by our Czech subsidiary is not accurate. We do not have anything further to share at this time,” a company spokesman said in an email Wednesday.

Earlier, Frank Shaw, the head of Microsoft’s corporate communications, tweeted a nearly-identical denial.

Microsoft was backing away from a report on the Czech website IHNED that said a local Microsoft official had confirmed that native iOS and Android apps for Office would debut in the first quarter of 2013.

Rumors of Microsoft pulling the trigger on Office for iOS, largely fueled by the success of the iPad, have surfaced repeatedly. Each time Microsoft has quashed the talk, at times with vague denials that leave room for interpretation.

Again on Twitter, Shaw later responded to a reporter’s comment with the line, “Gee, I thought it was pretty blanket,” referring to his previous statement that the information distributed by Microsoft’s Czech arm was “inaccurate.”

That leaves little room for interpretation.

But Wes Miller of Directions on Microsoft, and that research firm’s in-house lead analyst on Office, was not so sure. In fact, Miller said there were compelling arguments for either issuing native iOS Office apps, or keeping the money-making suite tightly—if not exclusively—tied to Windows.

It’s conceivable, said Miller, that Microsoft would link iOS Office apps to its upcoming Office 365 subscription plans, which in the case of the deal for consumers, lets customers install Office on as many as five devices, including desktop and notebook PCs, tablets, and smartphones.

In that arrangement—and Apple’s iOS App Store policies seem to allow this—Microsoft would offer Office apps free-of-charge, then tie them to an Office 365 subscription. Only users with a current subscription would be able to actually run such apps.

Other software-as-a-service companies use that model for their iPhone and iPad apps, which access customers’ accounts: Salesforce is one example.

“But I don’t think that would be a great idea,” said Miller. “It would pigeon-hole Office [on iOS] if it was only available to Office 365 subscribers.”

Miller said there were reasons why Microsoft would, in fact, release Office for iOS, and not tie it to Office 365.

“I have to wonder if the toxicity of the ‘Apple tax’ would really prevent them [from doing Office for iOS],” Miller said, referring to the 30% cut that Apple takes of all app revenue.

“But I really think they have to do something on iOS,” said Miller. “Look at the App Store. Many of the most popular productivity apps are Office emulators. So Microsoft is leaving money on the table that could be theirs.”

On the other hand, keeping Office connected to Windows also has benefits, in that Windows is, like Office, a major cash cow for the Redmond, Wash. company. “It’s six of one, half-dozen of another,” Miller said of the way the decision could go.

In any case, like other analysts, Miller was certain that any move—or non-move—would be decided at the highest level of Microsoft, and not left up to the fiefdoms of the Office or Windows groups.

“This would be a Steve [Ballmer] decision, Steve and Kurt DelBene [president of the Office division] and the board sitting down,” Miller said. “It would be a chess move.”

Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 


I know all about Microsoft. I've been dealing with them back in the late 1970‘s. I even knew these guys back in the mid 1970's. You're being a bit paranoid here. These are computer programs. They have no armies. They aren't taking the world over.

No, I'm not paranoid in the least, just informed.

Microsoft's modus operandi is to dominate and destroy. Heard of Netscape ? Heard of Apple maybe ?

The list is loooooooonnnnnnnnnggggggggggg.

They were fined $1B in Europe, and will be fined again as they still have not fixed up their Browser issue.

They ship Windows with 63,000 known bugs and laugh it off.

These are just a few examples.

How in the world can you support this type of activity ?  You seem to give them lots of latitude, and you are certainly wrong with your quote thats its only computer programs. Its just like saying this Drone that just fired its missiles and killed people is just a program.

I fail to see your logic.

Apple iWorks versus MS Office.

Keynotes versus Powerpoint - 1 to Apple

Pages versus Word - Even

Numbers versus Excel - 1 to MS

Fact: Powerpoint is garbage, I have used it and Keynotes and its a non-contest.

Opinion: Word is a bloated pig, where the vast majority of people use a subset of its features.  Pages does the job for word processing and kills it for Page Layouts

Opinion: Numbers serves me well, I don't need fancy Macros or embedded VB snippets.

How much will they sell Office Apps for iOS devices ? $10 or $20 per pop ?  This will simply hasten the end of Microsoft, long term they are in trouble with slipping PC sales, Windows & Office sales are flat. When more and more people get onto Tablet devices, their cash cow will disappear.

I feel Microsoft are in really big trouble, and no PR spinning will help them out this time, the writing is on the wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 

...

 

But businesses buy Office in a very high volume. A lot of those uses require some features that Apple either hasn't bothered to implement, or hasn't implemented in a compatible fashion. Apple hasn't seen fit to give a real upgrade to iWork components for some time. Why? They own the business tablet market right now, and could make the grip a lot tighter if they came out with a suite that was more robust. I don't know their thinking here, but they really should get cracking on this.

It's possible that the business unit of Microsoft has looked at Office for the iPad for some time. There's really no way to know. But politics in Microsoft is stronger than their good sense, oftentimes.

1. are simple to use and provide a pleasant user experience
2. exploit the advantages of the tablet paradigm
3. provide the basic Office features and functions
4. are compatible with existing Full Office apps running on Windows and OS X pcs

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfts 

Apple iWorks versus MS Office.

Keynotes versus Powerpoint - 1 to Apple

Pages versus Word - Even

Numbers versus Excel - 1 to MS

 

Fact: Powerpoint is garbage, I have used it and Keynotes and its a non-contest.

Opinion: Word is a bloated pig, where the vast majority of people use a subset of its features.  Pages does the job for word processing and kills it for Page Layouts

Opinion: Numbers serves me well, I don't need fancy Macros or embedded VB snippets.

 

How much will they sell Office Apps for iOS devices ? $10 or $20 per pop ?  This will simply hasten the end of Microsoft, long term they are in trouble with slipping PC sales, Windows & Office sales are flat. When more and more people get onto Tablet devices, their cash cow will disappear.

I feel Microsoft are in really big trouble, and no PR spinning will help them out this time, the writing is on the wall.

While, what you state, above, may be true... for you... It does not mean that it is true for the millions of Office users without a Mac or an iPad and access to iWork.  

I do not believe that MS can deliver a usable Office suite for the iPad in a meaningful timeframe (before 2014) -- and even if they could, it does't mean they would!

Quote:

Originally Posted by melgross 


Wow! Such hate! Calm down a bit. Worry more about Google these days. Apple and Microsoft have come to an understanding.

Not to mention that netscape destroyed itself.