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AppleCare warranty terms targeted in new Italian class action lawsuit

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
In the latest chapter of Apple's Italian AppleCare saga, two consumer advocacy groups on Wednesday confirmed the launch of a class action lawsuit, alleging the company has continued to violate the EU's warranty regulations despite being fined in December.

AppleCare Italy
Apple's Italian AppleCare webpage. | Source: Apple


A lawyer coordinating the suit confirmed to Macworld that Italian consumer associations Federconsumatori and the Center for the Protection of Consumers and Users (CTCU) are behind the legal action, which was announced in a joint statement on Tuesday.

"It has been reported in recent days that the Antitrust Authority has reopened the Apple case because Group companies are allegedly continuing to violate the consumer code," the statement said.

At issue iss a conflict between Apple's standard one-year product warranty and EU laws requiring companies to offer a free two-year warranty. Confusing the matter is Apple's for-pay AppleCare extended warranty, which the company allegedly pushed on consumers despite acknowledging the EU mandates.

In December, Apple was fined 900,000 euros, or nearly $1.2 million, by the Italian Antitrust Authority for not providing adequate information to customers about the length of product guarantees and the copany's AppleCare extended warranty. Apple lost a subsequent appeal of the ruling and was forced to add a disclaimer on its packaging to inform customers of the existing two years of coverage.

In July, Italy's AGCM competition and marketing authority threatened Apple's Italian operations with a 30 day suspension and additional fines after finding the company had not yet fully complied with the earlier order. Apple ">appealed the ruling, saying the AGCM's warning was based on a flawed interpretation of the law.

Italy AppleCare
Apple's Italian webpage for extended iPhone coverage. | Source: Apple


In Tuesday's statement, the groups cited the fine and also referred to a letter European Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding sent to justice ministers across the EU, calling on them to monitor Apple's "unacceptable marketing practices".

According to the suit's Rome-based coordinating lawyer Massimo Cerniglia, the claim intends to recover losses resulting from Apple's "past and present behavior." The class-action lawsuit targets Apple Sales International, Apple Italia and Apple Retail Italia, the same three Apple entities fined by the Antitrust Authority.

"We have had a lot of reports from customers saying the phenomenon of miss-selling warranty protection was continuing, even after the action of the Antitrust Authority and the TAR ruling," Cerniglia said. "Apple products are excellent and I use them myself. It's just a shame the quality of the marketing is not as good as the products themselves."

If successful, the the two Italian consumer groups will net between 10 to 15 percent of any settlement or related consumer compensation, however they will be responsible for legal fees if the suit falls through.

Cerniglia said that, while he has no estimates as to how many consumers will participate in the lawsuit, the number could be in the thousands. Apple will receive official notification of the suit within the next few days.
post #2 of 33
I thought you paid to extend the free telephone support from 90 days to 2 years.

The extended warranty is a bonus in countries that don't have a legally mandated 2 year warranty.
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post #3 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I thought you paid to extend the free telephone support from 90 days to 2 years.
The extended warranty is a bonus in countries that don't have a legally mandated 2 year warranty.

That is correct. They can still sell AppleCare because it offers services beyond the legally mandated warranty.

HOWEVER, that is not the issue here. Apparently, they have been accused of lying to customers as to what the warranty period is in order to convince them to buy AppleCare to cover something that would have been covered under the warranty. If that's true, they should (and probably will) be punished.
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post #4 of 33
This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.

It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.

It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.
post #5 of 33
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.

 

That's the EU standard, I think.

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post #6 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.

I disagree. Look at the graphic with the article. It clearly shows the standard warranty ending after one year, even though under Italian law, it must go for 2 years. So they are claiming that you need AppleCare to have coverage in the second year - which is clearly false.

This suit does appear to have some merit.
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post #7 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

. Apparently, they have been accused of lying to customers as to what the warranty period is in order to convince them to buy AppleCare to cover something that would have been covered under the warranty. If that's true, they should (and probably will) be punished.

Accused. But no one has shown proof that they

1. Gave a consumer incorrect information about the two year rule and exactly what it covers

2. Failed to uphold a correctly performed claim

Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.

If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.
post #8 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I disagree. Look at the graphic with the article. It clearly shows the standard warranty ending after one year, even though under Italian law, it must go for 2 years.

.

That graphic is about how long Apple's warranty lasts, which is above and beyond protections given by the law and they added that statement very clearly. They are not required to spell out those protections.
post #9 of 33

Do you people not read the article at all? This isn't an Italian regulation, it's the EU. All countries in the EU require companies selling products to provide a 2 year warranty. My dentist is required to provide a 2 year warranty on the work he did on my teeth! Companies should clearly indicate that the standard warranty is 2 years.

 

Apple is absolutely guilty of NOT clearly stating this warranty, and making it look like the actual warranty is only 1 year. 

 

 

Straight from the apple.cz website for the MacBook pro:

 

Na MacBook Pro s Retina displejem je poskytována 90denní bezplatná telefonická podpora a roční omezená záruka. Další informace najdete na stránkách podpory společnosti Apple, případně zavolejte na telefonní číslo 0844 209 0611.

 

Translated:

 

The MacBook Pro with Retina display is provided with a 90-day free phone support and one-year limited warranty. For more information, visit Apple support or call us on 0844 209 0611th

 

 

But what do you expect from people who are used to buying a bag of chips that is 1/10th full. Guess what, in CZ when you buy a non-American brand of chips, it's *full*.

post #10 of 33
I don't think this EU 2-year warranty mandate is available in the UK. Here, individual EU state determine what EU law they want to incorporate into their local legislation and I never heard of this 2-year warranty locally - this must be Italian only and maybe one or two others but not EU-wide.
post #11 of 33

It applies in the Uk.  It's an EU directive - the clue is in the word - it's not a suggestion.  It might not apply in the UK because I think UK consumer law says a product must deliver a reasonable life expectancy, so it might be even more strict than the EU law.  An Eu member state can have consumer protection that delivers greater than that mandated by the EU, but not less.

 

Apple are guilty on this one and I think they need to repeat the fine and add a zero, as Apple make so much from Applecare that the recent fine is not a sufficient disincentive.

 

I looked into this awhile a ago with respect to Ireland and the Apple website.  Apple are clearly being disingenuous:

 

 

Quote:

Limited Warranty and Service

Your MacBook Pro comes with 90 days of free telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. Purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan to extend your service and support to three years from your computer’s purchase date. Only the AppleCare Protection Plan provides you with direct telephone support from Apple technical experts and the assurance that repairs will be handled by Apple-authorized technicians using genuine Apple parts. For more information, visit Apple Support or call 1-800-MY-APPLE.

 

Anyone see anything about 2 years there?

 

 

Quote:

AppleCare Protection Plan

 

For up to three years from your computer's original purchase date, the AppleCare Protection Plan gives you direct, one-stop access to Apple's award-winning telephone technical support for questions about Apple hardware, Mac OS X, iLife, and iWork. And you get global repair coverage for your Mac — both parts and labor — through convenient service options.

I don't see any mention that you are statutorily covered for 2 years and that Applecare will only give you one year of benefit.

 

At the very bottom of the screen there is a link titled Statutory Warranty - but who needs to click on that, Apple already told you their warranty is for one year.

 

Click on the link and they do then state their warranty is for one year, EU law makes it 2 years, and Applecare will cover you for 3.  So for all the dupes paying  $449.33 for Applecare on a $3,024.29 base model Macbook pro, Apple are laughing.

 

Apple are being deliberately misleading in stating their warranty is for one year.  It isn't.  Perhaps a $12 M fine might get them to do the right thing.

post #12 of 33

I would ask you to read what saith the Directive 1999/44/EC, before accusing anyone

http://www.wak-tt.com/tt/2yearwarranty1.htm

post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.
It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.
It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.


Funny that you ask about video recording, because I got one. Recently here in France I had my iPod nano break up just before the end of the 2 years warranty. An Apple Store employee insisted that I didn't have the right to ask for a change even if it obviously was a hardware problem. I called directly Apple in Ireland and said that I had begun a procedure to sue, they saw all the products I bought from them and accepted a free change. The problem is that if I hadn't been a good customer they probably wouldn't have done that, but that law applies to everybody.

 

I'll answer to your trollish last sentences. Italy's economy isn't in a worse sh*t than that of the US, don't believe all that speculation. The warranty is an EU regulation, anyway. And that has nothing to do with economic problems anyway.

Finally, for a reason that I don't understand apart from being ill faith, you think it's stupid to protect consumers that way. I say it's stupid to not have a law that asks for a product to not break by itself for at least two years, especially an Apple product. Apple is hammering everybody's head with hype on how good and superior their products are, yet they can't guarantee their products for two little years? That's contradictory. Italy, Belgium are just the beginning, within a few years Apple will be forced to apply the law. I would like to say 'like everybody else', but there are lots of companies that do that.

post #14 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Accused. But no one has shown proof that they
1. Gave a consumer incorrect information about the two year rule and exactly what it covers
2. Failed to uphold a correctly performed claim
Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.
If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.


The law is pretty complicated and could be better written.

European customers are indeed covered if a defect appears AFTER the purchase. A defect can be there but be invisible.

Just like my iPod. The screen stopped working after almost two years. I never dropped it, it just stopped by itself. In a court (and there are precedents), showing that a screen doesn't work after two years is enough to prove that there was a defect from the beginning, because it's reasonable to suppose that a screen must last at the very least two years after purchase.

post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

I don't think this EU 2-year warranty mandate is available in the UK. Here, individual EU state determine what EU law they want to incorporate into their local legislation and I never heard of this 2-year warranty locally - this must be Italian only and maybe one or two others but not EU-wide.


From the european union internet portal :

 

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

 

Everybody mocks the UK in the EU because the UK doesn't seem to care about the idea behind the EU but just about money and how to get the most out of the EU without all the downsides. And I'm not saying this because I live in France, I've seen that in Spain, Italy, Poland and Germany!

post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.
If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.

 

Not quite. The defect can appear after delivery for several years and still be ruled as a defect at delivery. In some goods, the "defects at point of delivery" can be for example 5 years. If a washing machine's electrical motor fails in this time frame for example, it can be regarded as a defect during manufacture as the electrical motor is expected to last far longer than that. No need for proof from the customer in a case like that. I just had a problem with my car's engine after four years (two year manufacturer warranty). Because the defect was in a part that's expected to last the lifetime of the engine, the law applied and my bill was 0€ instead of 1000€.

 

The laws differ from country to country based on how they have translated the original directive into local law. In practice it means that in many countries there is a no-questions asked one year warranty on electronic goods (naturally physical harm not included). With some changes during the second year, but not necessarily in all.

 

Applecare does remove the burden of proof from the consumer and offers extended phone support. So in this case it boils down to a) italian law interpretation of the directive and b) how Apple in Italy has marketed Applecare. So any ruling in Italy may not apply directly to other EU countries.

 

You are correct in stating that the consumer deals with the purchase location in warranties, not necessarily the manufacturer or even the importer.

post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


From the european union internet portal :

 

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

 

Everybody mocks the UK in the EU because the UK doesn't seem to care about the idea behind the EU but just about money and how to get the most out of the EU without all the downsides. And I'm not saying this because I live in France, I've seen that in Spain, Italy, Poland and Germany!

 

You don't think that the current mess in the Euro-zone proves that the UK may have a point in being a bit sceptical?

post #18 of 33
Last I knew, here in the UK most top end phones come with a 2 year warranty. But then there is Apple, bless em.
post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

 

You don't think that the current mess in the Euro-zone proves that the UK may have a point in being a bit sceptical?


You are talking about the mess caused by over-speculation and the fact that money is king and everything else of value isn't recognized as such anymore?

Traders get paid 10 000+ euros a month and doctors get paid less than 2000 for 5 times the work and twice the studies. That's normal...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the UK, it's a beautiful country with a lot of culture and traditions, but I fell that they are not playing the game like most of the other members. It's probably due to the fact that it's an island. If the UK is resisting better than others the crisis it's not because they are not in the Euro, but because they have turned their economy very liberal, closer and closer to the american model, and I don't think that's a good thing.


Edited by ClemyNX - 10/11/12 at 2:50am
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

 

You don't think that the current mess in the Euro-zone proves that the UK may have a point in being a bit sceptical?

 

And just who is the financial centre of Europe? Where is most of the European financial speculation performed? Where did a number of big banks crash a few years back? The Euro-zone crisis is just one part of a string that started in the U.S, moved to Europe via? 

 

And why is there a financial crisis in the first place? Corporate greed maybe? Lack of steering and oversight of the financial institutions? Isn't that just the opposite of what the EU's consumer protection laws are trying to provide? When did the finances get out of hand? Could it have been around the time that financial controls were relaxed on both sides of the pond?

 

Doesn't that make it more likely that had EU been allowed to bring more control over big corporations and financial institutions, the effects would have been smaller? Who voted against such protections? Who drove for more freedom of the financial institutions?

 

You see, it ain't all Black&White.

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.

The only thing ridiculous here at all is your ignorance, on several levels, so let me explain this to you slowly:
  1. Audio and video isn't even considered evidenced in some EU countries unless it comes from equipment and installations specifically certified for surveillance, due to clashes with some constitutions and the data protection directive (Directive 95/46/EC);
  2. A lot of things can be considered evidence, the concept isn't restricted to audio and video, so I don't understand how you came up with such a claim;
  3. All retail stores that sell Apple products are specifically instructed to mention one-year warranty rather than two, which is what Apple is required to mention by law;
  4. Apple advertises one-year warranty when they are required to advertise two at their website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.

Apple is required to advertise a two-year warranty period, and they only advertise one-year. Whether people do or do not know about their rights is completely irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.

You are correct when you state that the law is about, but incorrect in your interpretation of it. For starters, any lack of conformity reported during the first 6 months after purchase is automatically considered as present at the time of purchase. Secondly, the warranty covers more than just defects, it extends to fitness and expectation, so if you sell a product that displays subpar performance compared to other products of the same kind and at the same price range, that is considered lack of conformity even if the product is otherwise working perfectly. Thirdly, lack of conformity detected the day before the warranty expires can still be considered as present at the time of purchase, or as degradation resulting from lack of conformity of internal components at time of purchase; it is the vendor's responsibility to prove that the product was damaged by incorrect use rather than non-conforming assembly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.

Except that's essentially the same protection you get legally...
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

 

And just who is the financial centre of Europe? Where is most of the European financial speculation performed? Where did a number of big banks crash a few years back? The Euro-zone crisis is just one part of a string that started in the U.S, moved to Europe via? 

 

You see, it ain't all Black&White.

 

You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries  to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).

 

Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years. 

post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the UK, it's a beautiful country with a lot of culture and traditions, but I fell that they are not playing the game like most of the other members.

 

On the contrary. Compared to many EU countries (including France) the UK has a very good record on implementing EU directives and adhering to the 'rules'.

post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Funny that you ask about video recording, because I got one. Recently here in France I had my iPod nano break up just before the end of the 2 years warranty. An Apple Store employee insisted that I didn't have the right to ask for a change even if it obviously was a hardware problem. I called directly Apple in Ireland and said that I had begun a procedure to sue, they saw all the products I bought from them and accepted a free change. The problem is that if I hadn't been a good customer they probably wouldn't have done that, but that law applies to everybody.

I'll answer to your trollish last sentences. Italy's economy isn't in a worse sh*t than that of the US, don't believe all that speculation. The warranty is an EU regulation, anyway. And that has nothing to do with economic problems anyway.
Finally, for a reason that I don't understand apart from being ill faith, you think it's stupid to protect consumers that way. I say it's stupid to not have a law that asks for a product to not break by itself for at least two years, especially an Apple product. Apple is hammering everybody's head with hype on how good and superior their products are, yet they can't guarantee their products for two little years? That's contradictory. Italy, Belgium are just the beginning, within a few years Apple will be forced to apply the law. I would like to say 'like everybody else', but there are lots of companies that do that.

Excellent rebuttal! The post from Gazoobee comes across as incredibly narrow-minded, at least to me. I also don't understand why Apple doesn't grant the mandatory 2 year guarantee on its products. B&O gives 3, and for good reason.
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post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

 

You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries  to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).

 

Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years. 

 

I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed. 

 

EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.

post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

 

I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed. 

 

EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.


You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.

The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.

post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Accused. But no one has shown proof that they
1. Gave a consumer incorrect information about the two year rule and exactly what it covers
2. Failed to uphold a correctly performed claim
Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.

The fact is that the warranty period in Europe is 2 years under at least some conditions per the EU directive. The graphic in this article shows that Apple is telling consumers that they only have a one year warranty and need to buy AppleCare to get a 2nd year of coverage.

Now, if they had made the first year one color - to show essentially full warranty coverage, and then made the second year a different color and labeled it "limited warranty protection per EU directive", that would have been OK. But their ad does not show ANY free warranty coverage for the second year - which is misrepresentation. The graphic is pretty much a slam-dunk for showing that Apple is giving false information to consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.

That's true - only if you have AppleCare. But if you don't have Apple care, you STILL have some coverage for the 2nd year - which is not being advertised by Apple.
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post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.

The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.

 

Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.

 

The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.

 

I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc. 

 

But this is quite far from the original topic.

post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

 

Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.

 

The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.

 

I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc. 

 

But this is quite far from the original topic.


Yes, we are pretty of topic (sorry) but I completely agree. The countries that didn't respect the deficit rule should pay.

post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

...

 

But this is quite far from the original topic.

 

Yes, my apologies to all for derailing this thread a bit.

post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


From the european union internet portal :

 

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

 

Everybody mocks the UK in the EU because the UK doesn't seem to care about the idea behind the EU but just about money and how to get the most out of the EU without all the downsides. And I'm not saying this because I live in France, I've seen that in Spain, Italy, Poland and Germany!

 

Guess what.

 

The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.

 

Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,

 

So does this cover batteries?

 

If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat. 

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post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.
It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.
It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.


And obviously, the same reasoning you apply when considering why Samsung should respect US laws don't apply to why Apple should respect Italia's laws?

 

I'd say that by your own reasoning, banning Samsung products and suing Samsung "is complete idiocy". After all, the consumer knows he's not buying an Apple iPhone/iPad. <- "Oppa Gazoobee style"

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Guess what.

 

The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.

 

Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,

 

So does this cover batteries?

 

If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat. 


You seem to (voluntarily?) misunderstand. The 2y guarantee makes sure that if you open your batteries to find them flat 2 years after buying, they'll be replaced, as they should be.

Guess what, the US also have laws, for example if you get sold an iPad and you actually get a Big Mac with fries, you can sue.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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