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Microsoft expands Motorola patent case to target Google Maps

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
Microsoft announced in a German court today that it would be expanding its patent infringement case against Motorola to include Google, specifically targeting the search giant's maps service for Android.

Apple and Microsoft have long been engaged in legal action with Motorola. In Germany, their combined legal actions have resulted in the complete termination of Motorola's entire Android-based product line, notes Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents.

Given that Google has now acquired Motorola, observers have wondered when these global patent cases would expand to name Google as a defendant.

That happened today when Microsoft's lead counsel, Dr. Tilman Mueller-Stoy of the firm Bardehle Pagenberg, announced plans to amend the company's complaint to add Google as a defendant.

Given Google's ownership of Motorola, the legal question remains whether Motorola's lawyers will accept the amendment on behalf of their parent company, or whether Microsoft will need to serve a complaint directly to Google in the United States, a detail that is expected to be resolved over the next two weeks.

Mueller also reported that Motorola was represented in the German hearing, not by any its own employees, but by "Karen Robinson, an in-house litigation counsel at Google, Inc."

Mueller described Google as working to prevent Motorola from having to accept a patent licensing deal with Microsoft, something every other significant Android vendor has already done. Microsoft described Google's opposition to Motorola's licensing of Microsoft's patent portfolio as "theater" holding up a settlement.

Microsoft is specifically targeting Google as the provider of mapping services that it says infringe upon its patent dating back to 1995, a patent that will remain in effect for another three years. Mueller notes that if Google loses the lawsuit, "Google Maps may become unavailable in Germany next spring as collateral damage of Google's unwillingness to address Android's massive, court-validated patent infringement issues."

Targeting Google Maps on a service level would not only affect Motorola's own insignificant sales in Germany, but would also have an impact on every other smartphone maker relying upon Google Maps.

Turn


Apple is no longer using Google Maps, having released its own mapping service in iOS 6.
post #2 of 49

awesome. bring it on. hate google. hate microsoft. am going to love watching them go at it.

post #3 of 49

This is leading up to the big one... A concerted one-two punch to Google by both Microsoft and Apple. It's going to be brutal.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #4 of 49
Good! Sic balls Microsoft.
post #5 of 49

Perhaps Microsoft gave the heads up to Apple on the maps lawsuit which is why Apple decided to launch their own version ASAP.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #6 of 49

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

 

"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"

post #7 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps Microsoft gave the heads up to Apple on the maps lawsuit which is why Apple decided to launch their own version ASAP.

Interesting theory indeed.

I wonder why if this has legs in Germany why not here in the USA?
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #8 of 49
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"
post #9 of 49
Just want EU to do a Microsoft on Google by mandating Google cannot have a trojan horse in the Android system to monopolize the search market. Android, given its open source nature, should allow users to pick and choose the search engine that they want. The same b*sh* that Microsoft has to live with for a long time.
post #10 of 49
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post
Interesting theory indeed.
I wonder why if this has legs in Germany why not here in the USA?

 

"Because legal precedent in one country has nothing to do with what another country does."

Sorry, just parroting what I'm told when I say the US Samsung lawsuit won't be used to take them down elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #11 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsdofny View Post

Just want EU to do a Microsoft on Google by mandating Google cannot have a trojan horse in the Android system to monopolize the search market. Android, given its open source nature, should allow users to pick and choose the search engine that they want. The same b*sh* that Microsoft has to live with for a long time.

 

You can change your search engine in both the stock Android browser and in Chrome for Android. You can also change to a different browser entirely, as well as changing your default mapping app, email app, phone dialer, text messaging app, speech synthesizer, soft keyboard, etc. In fact, you can release Android builds that don't use any Google services at all, as Amazon and Baidu are doing.

post #12 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps Microsoft gave the heads up to Apple on the maps lawsuit which is why Apple decided to launch their own version ASAP.

 

A lot of companies that were previously using Google Maps have jumped ship. Nothing to do with this lawsuit, had to do with Google changing their licensing terms. Apple's main interest in dumping Google Maps had more to do with Google's unwillingness to allow 3rd parties access to vector based maps and turn-by-turn navigation, giving Android an advantage over competing platforms. It seems like a rather stupid move given the amount of user data that can be obtained through map based searches. Google almost instantly lost billions of search results from iOS users.

 

 

Google's #1 position in digital mapping is a clear demonstration of how you use a monopoly position in one area to make gains in another. MapQuest was for a long time was the "go to" mapping site. After Google search took off, Google naturally had an interest in "knowing" where people were going and what they were interested in. So they quickly bought up dozens of mapping companies. And their maps became the default when people searched for locations through Google's search engine.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #13 of 49
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
You can change your search engine in both the stock Android browser and in Chrome for Android.

 

Are you offered the choice to do this immediately upon the first time you open the browser, also preventing you from doing anything until you choose one?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #14 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"

You are ignoring the context where this is happening. People here aren't cheering for the demise of a product, they're cheering for a war that stemmed from Google not playing well with others. The bigger picture, at least for the Apple side of the case, is that Google is now in the heat for antagonizing everyone else in the industry.
post #15 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

 

 

Just because a product is 'great' doesn't mean that it should have become so via a legal violation. 

 

And you should actually be wanting this suit to go forward. You seem to think that the patent is too vague to really be valid at this stage (if not ever) so you should want this suit so that it can be invalidated by Google's arguments

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #16 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

... I wonder why if this has legs in Germany why not here in the USA?

 

Because the US is basically a lawless frontier compared to Europe. 

 

Interesting to see Microsoft and Apple on the same side against Google though.  Love it. 

post #17 of 49
Go get them Microsoft.
post #18 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Are you offered the choice to do this immediately upon the first time you open the browser, also preventing you from doing anything until you choose one?

 

No, it's in the settings. Same as on every other browser.

post #19 of 49
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
Because the US is basically a lawless frontier compared to Europe.

 

… I really want to go into this more, because tearing this apart sounds fun, but we have a subforum for this stuff, and there there be monsters… 

 

Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
No, it's in the settings. Same as on every other browser.

 

Okay, so it's not at all the same situation in any respect. And no, that's not what it is like on Microsoft computers, at least in the EU.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #20 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

… I really want to go into this more, because tearing this apart sounds fun, but we have a subforum for this stuff, and there there be monsters… 

 

 

 

Okay, so it's not at all the same situation in any respect. And no, that's not what it is like on Microsoft computers, at least in the EU.

 

rsdofny said that Google was monopolizing the search market (they aren't) and that Android users should be able to "pick and choose the search engine they want." Android users can do this. And, further, they can choose alternatives for many other parts of the OS, in contrast to iOS where users can't change app defaults or replace OS components with alternatives. Given that, it's pretty galling that AI commenters would insinuate that Google is being anti-competitive. On the contrary, I think you can make a case that Apple is.

post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

You are ignoring the context where this is happening. People here aren't cheering for the demise of a product, they're cheering for a war that stemmed from Google not playing well with others. The bigger picture, at least for the Apple side of the case, is that Google is now in the heat for antagonizing everyone else in the industry.

This.

Google never saw a piece of intellectual property that they didn't want to steal - except their own, of course. Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #22 of 49
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
Android users can do this. 


But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.


Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Google never saw a piece of intellectual property that they didn't want to steal - except their own, of course. Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.
 

Not to fall off-topic, but it sounds a little like Disney. You know, taking public domain stories (software), writing their own versions (Android), and disallowing attempts at using said original material again… 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #23 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.

What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).

post #24 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

awesome. bring it on. hate google. hate microsoft. am going to love watching them go at it.

Microsoft secretly loves Apple. Apple gives Microsoft a benchmark to focus on, something to aspire to.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #25 of 49
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).

 

The monopolistic nature of it. 

 

Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #26 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post

 

You can change your search engine in both the stock Android browser and in Chrome for Android. You can also change to a different browser entirely, as well as changing your default mapping app, email app, phone dialer, text messaging app, speech synthesizer, soft keyboard, etc. In fact, you can release Android builds that don't use any Google services at all, as Amazon and Baidu are doing.

Not if you are Acer, you can't:-

 

Google, Acer and the joke that is the Open Handset Alliance

 

Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #27 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"

Whatever happened to "Google needs competition"? Oh right. You people only believe that Apple needs competition.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #28 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The monopolistic nature of it. 

 

Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.

 

Google is not a monopoly. I never claimed that Microsoft's obnoxious browser selection screen had an analogue on Android. I was responding to a claim that Android users should be able to change their default browser and search engine. They can. And you don't need an in-your-face popup to make it happen. But more to the point, it's hard to see how one could declare Google a monopoly, since users can rip out and replace most Android OS components if they so choose.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Not if you are Acer, you can't:-

 

Google, Acer and the joke that is the Open Handset Alliance

 

Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.

This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.

 

But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?

post #29 of 49
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
Google is not a monopoly.

 

Not legally, anyway. Not yet.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #30 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Not legally, anyway. Not yet.

Meaning, they're not a monopoly. Nice try at a smear, though.

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

 

A lot of companies that were previously using Google Maps have jumped ship. Nothing to do with this lawsuit, had to do with Google changing their licensing terms. Apple's main interest in dumping Google Maps had more to do with Google's unwillingness to allow 3rd parties access to vector based maps and turn-by-turn navigation, giving Android an advantage over competing platforms. It seems like a rather stupid move given the amount of user data that can be obtained through map based searches. Google almost instantly lost billions of search results from iOS users.

 

 

Google's #1 position in digital mapping is a clear demonstration of how you use a monopoly position in one area to make gains in another. MapQuest was for a long time was the "go to" mapping site. After Google search took off, Google naturally had an interest in "knowing" where people were going and what they were interested in. So they quickly bought up dozens of mapping companies. And their maps became the default when people searched for locations through Google's search engine.

 

Finally someone with a brain lol..  Its actually scary that the tech press ISN'T examining the effect that Apple basically DUMPED TWO GOOGLE mine field apps -  it's Maps AND YouTube.  Clearly this is a big blow to Google - a temporary effect on Apple, a permanent effect on Google..Thats the bigger story......

post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
 Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.

Why should someone be afraid of what Google might do? What actions has Google taken against anyone for possible IP infringement?

melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #33 of 49
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post
Nice try at a smear, though.


Except nowhere did I say any such thing, so enjoy your fantasy world.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #34 of 49

Apple and Microsoft seem to have extensive technology sharing agreements, so this issue between MS and Googie might have been moot even if Apple stayed with Googie Maps.

post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post

This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.

 

But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?

 

Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?

 

Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.

 

Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?

Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.

Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.

What iron fist would that be? The iron fist that released an operating system under an open-source license which lets their competitors (e.g. Amazon, Baidu) build good products? The iron fist that paid a competitor nearly a billion dollars to develop Firefox, including a version that can be installed and made default on Android?

Again, if you just want Android without restrictions, just checkout the AOSP source and build away. But if you voluntarily join the OHA, then you can't cry foul later.
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?

 

Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.

 

Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.

Hill, I'm certain you're very aware that some "official" Android phones even shipped with Bing preinstalled. The Google issue with Acer had nothing to do with Google services or even Google anything. It came about because Acer can't support and contribute to Android while at the same time contributing and supporting efforts to introduce incompatible forks of it to make it less relevant. That's what they agreed with to become a licensee, and quite honestly I'm pretty darned surprised if you think it doesn't make sense. 

melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

 

"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"

 

What's really confusing is why Microsoft didn't try to exercise its maps patent before... before it was sued by Google's Motorola over H.264 standards essential patents with the demand that Microsoft pay huge royalties or stop selling Xbox and Windows. Oh wait, that probably had something to do with it. 

 

It's so hard to remember Google's position, how do you droidfans keep up? Not long ago, you were cheerleading when Google was saying that H.264 was dangerous because Apple and Microsoft held patents and that implementing it required a cheap FRAND license. Now Google is attacking Apple and Microsoft over the very thing it vilified, even though neither Apple nor Microsoft ever sued anyone over H.264 patents the way Google was happy to do as soon as it got the opportunity. But I guess that's the dirty work you have to do when you are tasked with "protecting" Android from the consequences of infringement. 

post #39 of 49
We will have the last laugh as Apple insulates us from Google's Iron Fisting, whilst droids just feed the giant lying maw that is "open" and "free".

Idealists believing blindly in a company with no ethics. Laughable.

Google apologists are so strange. If you've invested time and money into a company's tangible product, fair enough, I get it. We all do. But why do people love Google so irrationally? Are they just cheap sheep? They mean less than nothing to Google, they are just eyeballs. Apple listens to its customers. So does Google. They're not us.

Microsoft/Apple blatant team up to kick Google. Genius.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.

"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"
Don't feel sad for Google or Samsung, this was the game plan from the beginning. develop a strong market on stolen patented / blatantly copy of others. settle if they Must.. in the end they will have a huge marketshare and continuing growth... so what's a billion or two....
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