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post #81 of 197
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
And perhaps this will be one time where it doesn't work?

 

Perhaps, exactly. We'll see.

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post #82 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

A bit over the top here, aren't we? And later on in the thread, you jack yourself up to ranting about $299. What's up? Have you tried getting more sleep?
No I don't think it's over-the-top. What I do think is over the top is claiming 8GB at $299 is reasonable. 16G makes sense. 8GB is a ripoff. But that's just me apparently plenty of other people here think it's a good deal and will sell like hotcakes.
post #83 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

My comment was far more general - focussed on the premise that they make much more profit on the bigger devices. They really don't need to profit from their cheapest devices to make a huge profit overall, and by pricing the lowest end products cheap it can lead to greater sales of the higher priced devices and profit overall. Plus they sell content.

Besides, don't be fooled into thinking the cost-of-parts breakdown of Apple devices reflect profit. They haven't factored in the R&D, production line setups, distribution networks, and the number of people paid directly or indirectly to make the device. Etc.  If you want to assume that they make back their R&D etc from the higher priced items, that's artificially changing how you divide the costs which isn't realistic anyway.
Sure I know those parts breakdowns aren't the total price. I still think there would be marfin in 8GB at $299 or even $249 for that matter. Not 40% or whatever but not zero either. I personally think Apple will be willing to take a slight margin hit in order to own this market.
post #84 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


No I don't think it's over-the-top. What I do think is over the top is claiming 8GB at $299 is reasonable. 16G makes sense. 8GB is a ripoff. But that's just me apparently plenty of other people here think it's a good deal and will sell like hotcakes.

We're looking at around $249 now for the entry level model, IMO.

post #85 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I personally think Apple will be willing to take a slight margin hit in order to own this market.

 

Apple already owns the tablet market. They don't need to have 100%, and they never will.

post #86 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I personally think Apple will be willing to take a slight margin hit in order to own this market.

We're probably in agreement about the main point then - just not sure on how much margin is on their smallest iPad mini.

 

They could even take a loss on it if it's unappealing enough (like... 8gb!) that it gets most people buying the 16GB etc. Still you don't want to make the reports all criticisms of storage.

post #87 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153366/retailer-purports-to-show-ipad-mini-in-wi-fi-cellular-models-priced-from-250-650-euros/80#post_2211367"]
Apple already owns the tablet market. They don't need to have 100%, and they never will.
I was referring to the smaller form factor market. They can't own something they're not in. But if they get in it the could own it if they play their cards right.
post #88 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

We're probably in agreement about the main point then - just not sure on how much margin is on their smallest iPad mini.

They could even take a loss on it if it's unappealing enough (like... 8gb!) that it gets most people buying the 16GB etc. Still you don't want to make the reports all criticisms of storage.
Yes exactly. I hope this product has some wow factor and the media conversation isn't all centered around expensive storage. I still think Apple might surprise us here.
post #89 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Agreed, 8G will be fine for millions of people. Maybe many millions.

The question is, how much real space is there after formatting and adding in iOS? Maybe 7 GB?

post #90 of 197
Originally Posted by igriv View Post
Could you enlighten us as to what IGZO is?

 

Sure thing.

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post #91 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The way the iPad was laughed out of the room for trying to compete with tablets with a "real" OS? The way the iPhone was laughed out of the room for trying to compete with smartphones with "real" keyboards?

 

more laughed out of the room becuase you can only install one app, and you run out of space.

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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post #92 of 197
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
more laughed out of the room becuase you can only install one app, and you run out of space.

 

Maybe one textbook. 

 

Speaking of which, they'll all need to be redone for this new size.

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post #93 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Had to actually read all the posts through to see if people really missed it, and they did.

Did everyone forget about schools? They won't be storing music and videos that take up space. 8GB can store an awful lot of textbooks, even ones with illustrations. This is who I think the 8GB model is targeted to.

Actually I would have disagree with this assessment. If you have looked at your children's textbooks you might be able to understand that they would contain many gigs worth of data even in their static representation. Add the interactivity and video available through iBooks Author and you won't even fit one equivalent textbook in 8GB. One of two things need to happen in my evaluation. One: the textbooks need to be delivered via a web browser, or two the size of the onboard storage needs to increase dramatically.

 

Of course there is the alternative that we discontinue all public education and parents can opt to send their children to charter schools and pay for the high capacity iPad themselves.

 

I think the 8GB rumored iPad mini is for people who don't have a lot of media needs and also have a small budget.In addition the smaller screen is not as useful for education as the full size iPad in my opinion.

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post #94 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Maybe one textbook. 

 

Speaking of which, they'll all need to be redone for this new size.

 

I know how many apps will fit onto the old 8gb 4/5th gen ipod touch, and it was nearly useless - assuming the larger screen, and compatability with the ipad apps, which tend to be larger than the ipod's.  Its a recipie for bad press.

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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post #95 of 197

8GB model is going to be marketed heavily as a B2B device, think about it you can run a basic native application or a database through a server (e.g. Filemaker) and accomplish a lot of tasks.  I know I'll be ordering a few for my business.

 

There are countless possibilities: waitresses taking orders (or just buy an ipad and mount it to a table and have the customer beam the order to the kitchen/bar), hotel check-in, rentals on airline flights with a select set of pre-loaded movies and tv shows to choose from, data collection in the field (my personal favorite)/surveying, etc etc etc.

post #96 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hmm. What say an informal bet? I think it'll be out faster than the 4GB iPhone, breaking the record for most quickly discontinued Apple product.
But discontinuation requires a refresh of some kind to make it official, non? And an iPad refresh happens only once per year.
post #97 of 197
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
But discontinuation requires a refresh of some kind to make it official, non? And an iPad refresh happens only once per year.

 

No. They killed off the 4GB iPhone at the iPod touch introduction without changing the 8GB iPhone. Refresh nuttin'.

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post #98 of 197
If this starts at $199, this will sell big time in the run up to Christmas. As Cook pointed out, the iPad works for all ages. Nobody is buying a Kindle for their kids.

$199 is cheap enough to gift to close family where $299 would have been a bit too pricey for a lot of people.
post #99 of 197
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
$199 is cheap enough to gift to close family where $299 would have been a bit too pricey for a lot of people.

 

Operating under the assumption that they have no supply problems, $199 would fill 99% of the 30% of shipped (not used) tablets that Apple doesn't have right now. 

 

But I wouldn't get my hopes up for that. I still say $399 is a safe assumption. If it's cheaper, hey, there's that.

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post #100 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
But I wouldn't get my hopes up for that. I still say $399 is a safe assumption. 

You really want this to fail so much don't you? Even more than Android fans want it to fail. Just so you can say "See I told you it was a bad idea". Well guess what? You are going to be wrong several million times over by Christmas.

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post #101 of 197
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
You really want this to fail so much don't you?

 

I'd rather Apple not fail. I just think it's safe to assume the far end of things with Apple products, always have.


…wrong several million times over by Christmas.

 

I still don't see how sales = good product. Yes, it can sell well. Doesn't mean it's the best thing that could be in its position.

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post #102 of 197
Here it is!

1. 8 GB Black wifi
2. 8 GB White wifi
3. 8 GB Black Cellular
4. 8 GB White Cellular
5. 16 GB Black wifi
6. 16 GB White wifi
7. 16 GB Black Cellular
8. 16 GB White Cellular
9. 32 GB Black wifi
10. 32 GB White wifi
11. 32 GB Black Cellular
12. 32 GB White Cellular
13. 64 GB Black wifi
14. 64 GB White wifi
15. 64 GB Black Cellular
16. 64 GB White Cellular
post #103 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But I wouldn't get my hopes up for that. I still say $399 is a safe assumption. If it's cheaper, hey, there's that.

I should have said $299, not $199 but that wouldn't fit with what I was saying about it being cheap enough for gifting.

German tax rate is 19% so 250euro/1.19 -> USD = ~$269. They might manage $249 and that would be around the same as the 8GB Nexus 7. I guess $249 isn't bad for gifting but grandma and grandpa will have to share (number 1 question asked by grandpa this Christmas - 'how do I clear the browser history?').
post #104 of 197
What we have here is a photograph of a list that any one of us could have conjured up in less than an hour.

It's just a piece of paper with some writing on it. That, combined with an 8GB device seeming highly unlikely, causes me to dismiss this right now.
post #105 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I should have said $299, not $199 but that wouldn't fit with what I was saying about it being cheap enough for gifting.
German tax rate is 19% so 250euro/1.19 -> USD = ~$269. They might manage $249 and that would be around the same as the 8GB Nexus 7. I guess $249 isn't bad for gifting but grandma and grandpa will have to share (number 1 question asked by grandpa this Christmas - 'how do I clear the browser history?').

FYI the 8GB Nexus7 is $199, The 32GB Nexus will probably be the closest in price to the 8GB iPad Mini, in the $250-$275 range.. Of course prices for either are yet to be confirmed.

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_7_8GB?id=nexus_7_8gb&hl=en


Edited by Gatorguy - 10/14/12 at 6:29pm

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post #106 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I should have said $299, not $199 but that wouldn't fit with what I was saying about it being cheap enough for gifting.
German tax rate is 19% so 250euro/1.19 -> USD = ~$269. They might manage $249 and that would be around the same as the 8GB Nexus 7. I guess $249 isn't bad for gifting but grandma and grandpa will have to share (number 1 question asked by grandpa this Christmas - 'how do I clear the browser history?').

Huh? The 16GB Nexus 7 is being sold for $249. Someone also mentioned here that they were discontinuing that model for 32GB at $260. I think 16GB at $249-$299 would work. 8GB at that price would really require Steve's reality distortion field.
post #107 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why would a retailer intentionally trash their database with meaningless allocated item numbers on pure speculation?

I've populated databases with 100's and 1000's of fake records for the purpose of testing and then executed automated tests. Standard procedure. 

post #108 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Speaking of which, they'll all need to be redone for this new size.

 

No, they won't.  1024x768 points is the size we code to.

post #109 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why would a retailer intentionally trash their database with meaningless allocated item numbers on pure speculation?

So they won't be caught off guard. Often those systems are updated on a regular schedule and that is the only time new records are added. So they place holder rumors so they will be ready when it is truth. If it is ever truth
post #110 of 197
Originally Posted by nht View Post
No, they won't.  1024x768 points is the size we code to.

 

That's not a size. 9.8" is a size. 7.85" is a size.

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post #111 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I should have said $299, not $199 but that wouldn't fit with what I was saying about it being cheap enough for gifting.
German tax rate is 19% so 250euro/1.19 -> USD = ~$269. They might manage $249 and that would be around the same as the 8GB Nexus 7. I guess $249 isn't bad for gifting but grandma and grandpa will have to share (number 1 question asked by grandpa this Christmas - 'how do I clear the browser history?').

 

8GB is tight but viable for folks that don't have large apps.  Of course Apple is hitting a low entry price point and expecting an upsell to the 16GB model.

 

If you assume US prices start at $250 and end at $650 (i.e. 1 for 1 with the Euro) then the iPad Mini (alas and not the iPad Air) comes in $50-$80 cheaper than the equivalent iPad 2.

 

The 16GB 3G or LTE iPad mini is a nice deal at $450 but I'll probably swing for the 32GB at $550.  Movies aren't the problem...I have netflix and wi drive.  It's the 1GB+ games but if you don't game it's not such a big deal.

post #112 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Actually I would have disagree with this assessment. If you have looked at your children's textbooks you might be able to understand that they would contain many gigs worth of data even in their static representation. Add the interactivity and video available through iBooks Author and you won't even fit one equivalent textbook in 8GB. One of two things need to happen in my evaluation. One: the textbooks need to be delivered via a web browser, or two the size of the onboard storage needs to increase dramatically.

 

Of course there is the alternative that we discontinue all public education and parents can opt to send their children to charter schools and pay for the high capacity iPad themselves.

 

I think the 8GB rumored iPad mini is for people who don't have a lot of media needs and also have a small budget.In addition the smaller screen is not as useful for education as the full size iPad in my opinion.

I'd have to agree, but perhaps for different reasons. I see the future use of the iPad in schools to allow individualization of materials and content, and support for numerous education apps. In order to allow for individualization, online assessment and access to materials based on the assessment will be important. Apps which allow content to be pushed by the teacher, and live monitoring of student progress will also take iPad resources. For our little folk, the size and weight and cost will be very important, as will some degree of future proofing. Schools and parents will not be purchasing new iPads even every 2 years and it will be expected that the kids use their iPads over multiple years. 

 

The least expensive iPad minis will be for seniors and as a competitor to the Kindle, Samsung, and Barnes&Noble devices. The cheapest iPad minis will allow schools to dabble in the new technology, but it would not be expected to be adequate longer term. 

 

At this point, the iPad environment is not available to build and support what is required for a fully integrated learning environment. No LMS (Learning Management System), no assessment tools, no individualized push technologies, and no content that would cover the educational standards, and no pedagogy and training to integrate the iPad into the curriculum. The future is promising but many years into the feature. 

post #113 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That's not a size. 9.8" is a size. 7.85" is a size.

 

It's a size as far as coders are concerned. The 44 point minimum interaction size is the same size on the 7.85" tablet as they are on the iPhone.  Meaning if you followed the HIG for your iPad app then your UI components meets the minimum physical size that Apple has set for iOS.  A 44x44 point button on the iPhone is the same physical size as a 44x44 point button on a 1024x768 7.85" iPad Mini @ 163 PPI (this is a tautology...any 44x44 pixel button is the same size for any display with the same pixel density)

 

Same for any books.

 

Unless you'd like to assert that the iPhone is unusable because the controls or fonts are too small...

post #114 of 197
Originally Posted by nht View Post
...any 44x44 pixel button is the same size for any display with the same pixel density)

 

That's the rub. It doesn't have the same pixel density as the iPad. Things have to be redone.

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post #115 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why would a retailer intentionally trash their database with meaningless allocated item numbers on pure speculation?

So they won't be caught off guard. Often those systems are updated on a regular schedule and that is the only time new records are added. So they place holder rumors so they will be ready when it is truth. If it is ever truth

Live databases are backed up daily.You never want bogus data in your live database.

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post #116 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why would a retailer intentionally trash their database with meaningless allocated item numbers on pure speculation?

I've populated databases with 100's and 1000's of fake records for the purpose of testing and then executed automated tests. Standard procedure. 

So you think this is a screen from a test site? Why would they even mention IPAD MINI if it is just a test? Wouldn't you use FOO BAR as your test data?

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post #117 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrsnoop View Post

But I think that Euro Price includes VAT.  Or some other factor.  I believe traditionally the Euro price listed tends to equal the dollar listed price, the way we in the US are used to seeing it.

 

Yes, I think it will be from US$249 as well. There are a couple of instances in the iPad pricing where the euro price matches the US dollar pricing (Germany), or very close to (within 10 euros, France).

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post #118 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

At this point, the iPad environment is not available to build and support what is required for a fully integrated learning environment. No LMS (Learning Management System), no assessment tools, no individualized push technologies, and no content that would cover the educational standards, and no pedagogy and training to integrate the iPad into the curriculum. The future is promising but many years into the feature. 

The thing about iBooks Author that we have come to realize is that there is no convenient way to observe what the student is doing or get any test results into a database. I would say that it is a dead end as far as education is concerned. Pretty, but  not functional.

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post #119 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by nht View Post
...any 44x44 pixel button is the same size for any display with the same pixel density)

 

That's the rub. It doesn't have the same pixel density as the iPad. Things have to be redone.

Not as urgent as some might assume. Once you are talking about high ppi the scaling effect is not that much of a problem. If the graphics are already available for a higher resolution the scaling has minimal negative consequences.

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post #120 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Actually I would have disagree with this assessment. If you have looked at your children's textbooks you might be able to understand that they would contain many gigs worth of data even in their static representation. Add the interactivity and video available through iBooks Author and you won't even fit one equivalent textbook in 8GB. One of two things need to happen in my evaluation. One: the textbooks need to be delivered via a web browser, or two the size of the onboard storage needs to increase dramatically.

 

Jeez people.  Is it HARD to google ibooks average size?

 

http://www.cultofmac.com/141364/most-ibooks-author-e-textbook-download-sizes-are-between-one-and-three-gigabytes/

 

Quote:

Check out how big the first eight textbooks available through iBooks are:

 

E.O. Wilson’s Life On Earth – 965MB
McGraw Hill’s Algebra 1 – 1.09GB
Pearson’s Biology – 2.77GB
McGraw Hill’s Biology – 1.49GB
National’s Chemistry – 959MB
Pearson’s Environmental Science – 793MB
McGraw Hill’s Geometry – 1.22GB
McGraw Hill’s Physics – 1.25GB

 

 

So, an 8GB iPad mini can hold around 2-4 textbooks.  Pearson's Biology blows past the 2GB limit that Apple has on iBooks so the McGraw Hill Biology textbook is probably more representative of the beefier textbooks.

 

I guessing that dynamically downloading the desired chapters from iCloud/school servers when needed will solve the issue of 3GB textbooks clogging up even 16-32GB iPads.  It's recommended to keep chapter sized reasonable for performance.  That works nicely with on-demand chapter downloads too.

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