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Microsoft Surface tablet with Windows RT to start at $499 - Page 4

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Like the guy said, You really have a laptop-wired brain focus.

 

Actually, probably more of a laptop-wired to-do list, but I get your point.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

The Apple TV is very tiny and a no-brainer to hook up; so bring your own to use with your iPad and Airplay away.

 

Way ahead o'ya.  The one time I tried it, finding power for the ATV turned out to be an issue.  It was also slightly more hassle to carry around than a long HDMI cable (not enough hassle to be a deal breaker, but still, more).  It's a great idea and should work fine in most scenarios, but in practice Murphy is often an unforgiving sunofabitch and it's just safer to go with the KISS principle.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Use the right tool for the different jobs.

 

I'm with you.  My point is that the Surface may be a first step in bringing the two disparate device paradigms closer together.  If it does, I would consider it a good thing (in a general, Martha Stewart kinda way).

post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

 

We can only guess but it is certainly not made of anything that is perfectly stable like glass or metal. Perhaps some sort of artificial fibre reinforced resin by the look of it. Whatever it is it appears to have no edge finish, probably in order to maintain the 'surface' profile. It looks like it will be subject to warping and fraying.

 

Also note that there are two keyboards, one with no tactile keys for $100 and one with tactile keys for $130. Due to the small price difference and due to the obvious fact that some sort of feedback is a must on anything that is not a purely software keyboard, then it can safely be assumed that the standard $100 keyboard, which is what most users will opt for is probably going to be an unmitigated disaster.

 

the keyboard material seems to be perfectly designed to catch pet hair. You may need to schedule appointments with MS to have it cut and groomed regularly. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

RT. That's all you can buy atm. Pro version (Win 8) arrives in three months.

 

Three months...what does that figure out to be in techno-years?? This is important since RIMM will ship the BB10 in March 2013 and in techno-years that's just shortly before the last star in the universe flickers out...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

...because when you try to squash gnats on your laptop screen and it's touch sensitive you can cause all kinds of data loss or changes. 

 

Users generally don't want to be raising their hands up to poke the screen when it's far easier to do the same thing more conventionally.

 

Agreed.  HOWEVER...

 

This came up in the context of how a Surface begins to bridge the gap between tablet and laptop.  If we envision an evolution towards something that integrates the advantages of both, a touchscreen makes sense because we're talking about something that offers a keyboard when you need or want it, but not when you don't.  When you don't, you use the touchscreen.

 

Since we're talking about small devices, both screen and keyboard real-estate are limited.  It's harder to work in something as versatile and easily used as an Apple trackpad.  Having to choose between a limiting pointing device or reaching up may make a user more willing to forgive some ergonomic not-so-niceties.

 

It's also just one more choice for the user.  I use both trackpad and mouse, as each is better at some things than the other.  A touchscreen just adds one more option the user can incorporate or ignore according to their preference.  Don't like it?  Don't use it.

post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Think of the last vertical touchscreen you not only enjoyed using for extended periods, but saw any reason to use whatsoever.

 

Never have.  Can't think of many situations in which I would (though I'm *SURE* there have been a few times in recent months that I've thought "That would be easier if I could just touch the screen with my finger" but I now can't think of a single example.  Either they were lousy examples or my memory is getting REALLY bad.  Or both.).

 

But now imagine we're talking about a device like... I dunno, the 11" Air, except that somehow you can fold the keyboard away and use it like an iPad.  Now you have an application for a laptop with a touchscreen.

post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Never have.  Can't think of many situations in which I would (though I'm *SURE* there have been a few times in recent months that I've thought "That would be easier if I could just touch the screen with my finger" but I now can't think of a single example.  Either they were lousy examples or my memory is getting REALLY bad.  Or both.).

But now imagine we're talking about a device like... I dunno, the 11" Air, except that somehow you can fold the keyboard away and use it like an iPad.  Now you have an application for a laptop with a touchscreen.

For people like you who keep insisting that touch screen laptops with foldaway keyboards are the ultimate thing... Where were you people when manufacturers where trying to get people to buy Windows convertible tablet / laptops for the past decade? And why lust after the shiny new old thing when the shiny old old thing wasn't worth buying?

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post #127 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

"when supply outgrows demand"? I see you are an optimist about MS' chances. Otherwise, interesting thoughts.
 

You'll notice I said "when", not "if". I think that makes me realist more than optimist. There is always spike of interest for new product, ant there is often shortage before production and supply chains sort themselves out and enough units end up on shelves.

That being said. We are receiving above average interest from our larger corporate users for both RT and WP8. We are not incouraging nor discouraging them at the moment, but we will definitely trial them when available here in NZ, and if there are advantages over iOS and Android options, we will be pushing them to customers. Realistically, this is most likely way for MS to gather some ground.
post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

[...] why lust after the shiny new old thing when the shiny old old thing wasn't worth buying?

 

Because technology has marched on in the intervening years.  Touchscreens are better.  Components are smaller.  Software is better.  Device cost is lower.

 

In short, because many of the  issues that made the old old thing not worth buying have been fixed now.

post #129 of 144

Also I note in the original ad that the main guy, pulls the Surface pad out of his briefcase to use it, then decides that he'd like to type something so he dives back into his briefcase to get the keyboard cover. But if the keyboard is a cover, then why is it not already on the pad? WTF is the point of having an uncovered pad and the cover separately stored in your briefcase? Same seems to go for the bench guys. 

 

What is the message here?

 

Also I see that one extremely übercool feature of this tablet is the ability to exchange keyboards with your mates. But why? is it some form of primitive Windows bonding ritual.

 

I can hardly wait for the release day, this item is going to get absolutely zuned.

post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

That being said. We are receiving above average interest from our larger corporate users for both RT and WP8. 

 

Interesting. Perhaps there may some regional differences, but in the USA the interest in trying out the Win 9 pre-release OS is only 1/5 of the interest in Win 7 when it was in its pre-release period. This little factoid has been a reliable indicator of the possible adoption rate of a MS OS.

 

Many of the largest corporation are either staying with XP or are only now adopting Win 7. But, for the first time ever, some products like the Win 8 phones and faplets will not be backward compatible to earlier versions of MS OS. This means that regardless of whether end user buys MS branded hardware or some other brand, the user will be operating within a mixed OS house.

 

Now normally it would be easy to just pick Win 8 and go... but years and years have passed since Apple and then Android OEMs have been integrated into large company's IT efforts. These other choices have proven themselves with IT. A lot of eyes have been opened that were long closed, and MS may be shocked at what new attitudes their absence has awoken into being.

 

 

“We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake...”

—Henry David Thoreau

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #131 of 144
Well I think it looks nice. Admittedly no reviews yet, but my biggest issue with ordering one is for some reason all the colours aren't available yet! I don't want a black cover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

...because when you try to squash gnats on your laptop screen and it's touch sensitive you can cause all kinds of data loss or changes. 

Users generally don't want to be raising their hands up to poke the screen when it's far easier to do the same thing more conventionally.
Is it? When I'm sitting on the sofa with my laptop on top of me, trying to use the trackpad can be a real pain as its right next to my body. Being able to touch the screen would be far far far easier.
post #132 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

Also I note in the original ad that the main guy, pulls the Surface pad out of his briefcase to use it, then decides that he'd like to type something so he dives back into his briefcase to get the keyboard cover. But if the keyboard is a cover, then why is it not already on the pad? WTF is the point of having an uncovered pad and the cover separately stored in your briefcase? Same seems to go for the bench guys. 

 

What is the message here?

 

The message? That the rubber keyboard is a battery-sucking hog if left connected.

 

In case you're wondering why everyone was jumping around like they were totally nuts, Monkeyboy Ballmer was the choreographer for the commercial. It was either that, or he was gonna bust some moves his self...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Well I think it looks nice. Admittedly no reviews yet, but my biggest issue with ordering one is for some reason all the colours aren't available yet! I don't want a black cover.
Is it? When I'm sitting on the sofa with my laptop on top of me, trying to use the trackpad can be a real pain as its right next to my body. Being able to touch the screen would be far far far easier.

...one of my favorite working positions for reviewing text on my laptop screen. However when I move to inputting text I push the laptop down so it's raised up on one of my legs and stabilized with the heels of both of my hands. The general scale of buttons on a laptop don't make for easy gerfinger-poken...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #134 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Because technology has marched on in the intervening years.  Touchscreens are better.  Components are smaller.  Software is better.  Device cost is lower.

 

In short, because many of the  issues that made the old old thing not worth buying have been fixed now.

I agree, unless you are including MS software in the above. MS software (OS and Apps) will either be heavy keyboard/mouse or some unholy marriage of the above and touch. Anything that diminishes the importance of the keyboard is not allowed by corporate culture led by the high priest Monkeyboy.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I know the Internet is going to be alive with comparisons between the Surface and the iPad and no one really wants to hear it but .....

 

... technically, nothing Microsoft is offering is truly a 'tablet" or a "post PC" device. These are all, without exception, convertible or hybrid laptops.  

 

Even the RT ones with the keyboard cover contain essential system software and apps that in some cases, cannot be manipulated unless you attach a mouse.  They also only operate in landscape mode.  

 

These are hybrid laptops, not tablets.  Microsoft's answer to the "post PC device" is to create a portable PC that imitates certain 'Post PC' features.  

This is a perfectly valid strategy, but it ain't no tablet.  

I agree, and this is pretty much what I have been saying along since it was first presented.

post #136 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

How to make a tablet, Microsoft style:

1. Detach keyboard/trackpad from a laptop, make it a "premium" add-on

2. Hide Windows desktop behind "Metro" Start page

3. Now tell everyone it's a tablet

 

Ballmer is a visionary!

Too true.

Now and again when I feel I have done something really dumb, like forgotten to compliment my wife's new hair style etc.

I sit down in a quite corner, turn on YouTube and watch Monkey Boy dance around, shrieking like a little girl, squeaking, Developers, Developers Developers ...

I then turn it off, and relax knowing full well that there is someone stupider than me on this planet.

post #137 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Who cares about the price or if the keyboard is included?

The fact the RT tablets don't run x85 code is the biggest problem. Just wait until people buy a tablet that has "Windows" in the name and realize their existing Windows software WILL NOT RUN. Or that Office isn't quite the same as the full version on your PC. Or that there are hardly any programs available because of the major amount of work involved to re-write an existing x86 program to work on ARM.

That is the biggest reason these tablets are going to be a flop (or a very slow starter). No software.
AFAIR there is the possibility for business/power users of Windows RT to run remotely hosted x86 apps through remote desktop, we will see. There are already something like over 4500 'metro' apps.
post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

The message? That the rubber keyboard is a battery-sucking hog if left connected.

In case you're wondering why everyone was jumping around like they were totally nuts, Monkeyboy Ballmer was the choreographer for the commercial. It was either that, or he was gonna bust some moves his self...

Why do you think so? My old Logitech LX710 wireless desktop's keyboard went through 3 years without batteries replacement. Mouse had batteries replaced every 3 months on average... but mouse has laser and constant stream of data being transmitted.

Smart cover keyboard is not even wireless. I'm expecting power usage will be negligible.
post #139 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Interesting. Perhaps there may some regional differences, but in the USA the interest in trying out the Win 9 pre-release OS is only 1/5 of the interest in Win 7 when it was in its pre-release period. This little factoid has been a reliable indicator of the possible adoption rate of a MS OS.

Many of the largest corporation are either staying with XP or are only now adopting Win 7. But, for the first time ever, some products like the Win 8 phones and faplets will not be backward compatible to earlier versions of MS OS. This means that regardless of whether end user buys MS branded hardware or some other brand, the user will be operating within a mixed OS house.

Now normally it would be easy to just pick Win 8 and go... but years and years have passed since Apple and then Android OEMs have been integrated into large company's IT efforts. These other choices have proven themselves with IT. A lot of eyes have been opened that were long closed, and MS may be shocked at what new attitudes their absence has awoken into being.


“We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake...”



—Henry David Thoreau



Probably regional. Though I'm talking about our customers, so I cannot even say if that is standard for New Zealand or not. Nor do I know what's the situation over the ditch, in Australia... but here, our big clients have mostly adopted Windows 7. Most of them have proper VL agreements, company wide desktop platforms (Win 7, Office 2010, CALs...), ongoing Software Assurance. XP exists in SOHO setups mostly, and is being slowly updated with new equipment purchase.

Windows 8 desktop is not drawing much attention either... so far. We've given our staff access to our VL on voluntary base, just so that we have some people familiar with Win 8 when above mentioned SOHO customers start purchasing new machines with Windows 8 preinstalled. Our experience is good, as in "works as fine in domain as Win 7 does". There are potential benefits of improved security features etc., but it is too early to comment on everyday impact of such features.

However, interest for WP8 and RT/Pro tablets is above our expectations. I'd say dominant reason is expectation that mobile Office will be closer to desktop Office than what is available on Android/iOS. There is also general expectation among our customers' IT that WP8 and RT will be snappier/friendlier/feature richer/more manageable integrating with MS corporate services, namely SharePoint, CRM, Exchange, RDS. That remains to be seen in real life, thus also if interest will grow into actual purchases. But realistically, for yet unreleased product, MS cannot expect more than people being interested, and should be happy that people ARE interested.
post #140 of 144
Well there goes my plans to buy a MS tablet, figured it was going to be cheaper. They should call the RT version a MS Office tablet instead of surface, same as a full on win8 version. I mean what apps are going to be available other than the bundled software day one? Has anyone heard devs talking about recoding any titles, games or otherwise, to work on RT variant?
post #141 of 144

I think the price is a little on the high side. I really do like the fact that it comes with a full version of Office 2013 though, Excel with macro/Visual Basic support is one hell of a selling point for me. Sure the app store is small to start but that will change. Yea, I think for the business crowd this little guy could be popular. Especially that it has a USB slot and a file manager.

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post #142 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishanth View Post

Microsoft is probably one of the last companies that has not put up a serious challenge to the since the iPad came to the market, even thought they were in the Tablet software business with their partners making the hardware. Probably the best suited to put up a fight against Apple, will be interesting to see especially after the Apple announcement of the Oct 23 event.

MS may be becoming a victim of its own vision statement from the early Bill Gates era: "Windows Everywhere". Add MS Office to that, and you have the complete MS business model.

 

There business model is also to sell to the enterprise, not to the ultimate user. That could work, of course, since they still and likely will always have a lock on the enterprise, but its permanence now is not guaranteed. 

post #143 of 144

Microsoft is very aggressively pushing for Windows 8 and surface tablets.

The advertising guy says the company expects to ship over 400 million units of windows 8 by July 2013.

That's pretty aggressive and far ahead of iPad's market share.

http://www.beet.tv/2012/10/windows8ads.html. 

Has anyone seen any deals for surface. I saw some savings at this site but not much.

post #144 of 144
Originally Posted by KHARRIS View Post
The advertising guy says the company expects to ship over 400 million units of windows 8 by July 2013.

 

Link to that complete idiot?

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