Microsoft Surface tablet with Windows RT to start at $499 - Page 3

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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie 

Will that mean that any non-MS tablet running WRT will start at around $ 599 since they'll have to pay for a licence? Of course, it's just a 'design-release' and manufacturers can do whatever they like...

I think MS was very smart on pricing.  $499 leaves their OEMs breathing room even after paying for the OS...at least enough to make the usual meager profits that PC OEMs are used to.

WTF any OEM can do in the 7" Android Tablet market is beyond me with both Amazon and Google selling at cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimpson 

Is there a Surface-Gate coming?

There was already a Gates-Gate:

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Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach 

It seems to be all rubber coated. Maybe you can put it in the dish washer. That at least would be interesting.

Will it blend?

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins 

Surface 32GB - 499 USD

Full Microsoft Office, USB ports, microsd card support, uHDMI for video out, file browser, flash support, mouse support, double the capacity of the same price iPad. Heck adding a 32GB microsd card for less than 30 USD and you get a 64GB device for less than 600 USD.

 

oh..and there are way cheaper Windows 8 options than Surface. The Iconia W510 with ATOM is the same price as the 32GB Surface with all the feature set and the 16GB iPad .

While Apple does us price premiums on storage to gain profits -- you're making the mistake again of just using raw specs to compare.

And this product doesn't ship yet right?

Then you mention a product that is "really cheap" for bargains. Seriously -- nobody wants those bargain products. They are "Christmas day dissappointments" where Uncle Rick got something "just as good as an iPad" and for half the price. Child then grows up thinking; "Pads are useless" and becomes a highly paid Technology analyst who parrots PR brochures having gotten used to lies as a child.

In real usage, the Speed, Battery Life and Performance are going to not be up to iPad specks. The rest of the system will be "Beta Test ready" quality (from past performance of Microsoft 1.0 releases). The one advantage here is a regular USB port and Microsoft Office. But you know, you end up lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player to blow away those stupid iPad suckers and you've just reproduced a NetBook at twice the price and half the performance (wow -- does this remind us of Microsoft's first endeavor with tablets and how this made everyone realize that NOBODY wanted a tablet or what?)

The Surface might be pretty cool,if Microsoft can leverage the XBox with it as a gaming platform -- but I wouldn't want to be the first one to buy this thing out the gate. And that's if everyone else stands still while Microsoft lines up developers for the new platform.

What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web

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Originally Posted by igriv 

 

It is not a paperweight, but it is the most expensive paperweight I have used!

 

It's also not a car seat warmer, but it will be the best car seat warmer you've ever used -- but only do this after you've busted the screen and exhausted it's utility as the "best cracked glass flash light you've ever used."

With a few modifications, it could also be the best toaster!

Originally Posted by simtub 
What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web

They don't even know.

I like how the computery tablet (the one running real Windows) has a Mini DisplayPort port. Almost as if Microsoft has recognized that VGA is worthless this side of 1999. STILL behind the standards, but hey.

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Originally Posted by AndyShannon 

Wow one of the negative comments about the surface is "The basic model also comes without a touch cover, TechCrunch revealed on Tuesday. The keyboard cover accessory will be available with the Surface tablet for $599". This is part of the conversation comparing it to the ipad, but the ipad doesnt come with any accessories either? If you want the smart cover for the ipad you are looking at another $40-70, if you want a bluetooth keyboard cover for the ipad you are looking at another $100, so why put down the surface for not including an accessory? if it was including it wouldnt be considered "an accessory". Thus it definitely is undercutting the ipad on price.

Difference being, of course, that the iPad and all iOS apps are fully functional under touch, without a keyboard. The keyboard is optional (and you can use the Apple bluetooth keyboard with your iMac).

But on the Surface? Good luck doing anything without the keyboard. Especially "full" Office. You get a "Touch" interface "surface" deep, then get thrown into a poorly conceived interface that obviously started as a desktop interface but is neither a great desktop nor a great touch interface. Good luck with that.

Surface cover keyboard: $119

Apple keyboard (useable for other things) $69 + smart cover $49 = $118

Any number of innovative third party accessories for iPad.

Real innovative MS, way to focus on the snap cover in your ads and material; you must make a great margin on those. I wonder how innovative the actual Surface is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 

How to make a tablet, Microsoft style:

1. Detach keyboard/trackpad from a laptop, make it a "premium" add-on

2. Hide Windows desktop behind "Metro" Start page

3. Now tell everyone it's a tablet

 

Ballmer is a visionary!

LOL so true

Whoa... the stock market website, TheStreet.com just ran a story about the dismal road ahead for Microsoft and Google in their competition with Apple, saying, "As great as Apple has been, you really have to chalk up some of its success to pathetic competition."

Oww, that was HARSH! 

The writer sees BOTH of these companies failing in their "war" with Apple. He says there will be some "news-driven artificial bumps" to MSFT stock once Windows 8 is released, "but it's all downhill from there."

Mr. Pendola goes on to add:

Microsoft and Google, in their own ways, say, yeh, us and Apple, we battle, we're alike. And we're supposed to assume that it's true.

Microsoft has absolutely zero confidence in its plan to sell hardware and create an ecosystem like Apple's. If it did, it would not need the cockamamie idea of opening Office up to iOS and Android mobile devices. That's what you call a backup plan.

Microsoft needs this contingency in place. Simple as that. If it kept things closed, revenue would drop precipitously because the Surface tablet and any other hardware running Windows 8 that it or its partners produce will not sell enough units to support mobile Office as a Microsoft-only platform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simtub 

What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web

Microsoft considers batter life to be an unimportant specification. The Surface is only really functional on a table top and there's usually an outlet near a table, so why should battery life be an issue? Pshaw!

It's enough to know that you will be able to dance like Monkey boy once you get this thing in your hands.

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Originally Posted by eksodos 

 

The metro interface has received some pretty positive reviews even from Apple fans in the media. Microsoft and its partners surely haven't shipped anywhere near as many phones as they would have liked, but I don't think that has anything to do with the interface. It has more to do with them getting into the market so late and losing so much ground on their biggest competitors.

 

I applaud Microsoft for at least trying to do something different with their UI, unlike Android.

 

Anyway I've just pre-ordered a Surface tablet. I'm willing to give this a chance. Since I held off upgrading the iPad 3 this year, this gives me the opportunity to try something different. 

Well, what can we say yet with any confidence? There has been no hands on. The "positive" reviews were in relation to the colored squares with live updates and notifications in them. Sure, this is possibly refreshing change to row after row of app icon. But that's as far as it goes. Equally, many people hate it.

But as a "touch OS", we don't know yet how good it really is. The Surface RT comes with Windows 8 RT. That means it gets the "Metro" UI only. Whatever this "full" Office is on Windows RT, it isn't "full". But what is it, is it even really touch optimized? Apparently you need a keyboard to really do anything properly. You get some kind of touch functionality, and some kind of poorly conceived mouse/keyboard interface that is only a barely tweaked desktop interface where a few elements are spaced out and made a little bigger so your finger can hit them. RT / "Metro" / Windows 8 Style UI is possibly as good as WebOS, who knows.

Have MS spent 20 years with ARM? Has MS ever ported their NT base successfully to another architecture as Apple has ported OS X from PowerPC to Intel to ARM? Can MS do their own custom silicon to enhance their software?

This is why MS is insistent that iPads are consumption only, and MS thinks it has the real answer: because MS can't do Touch properly. They haven't successfully ported their desktop OS to ARM as Apple has. THey haven't got all the basic blocks of their desktop OS with a fully substituted UI layer as has Apple with iOS. MS has this piddling surface layer with no substance under it for Windows RT, and insist on subjecting full Windows 8 users to it as though it is the best thing since sliced bread. And yet Apple has had Quartz and Core Animation, both on the desktop and in iOS for years; and OS X has had sliding desktop UI's, as in Time Machine and the widget dashboard and now the app drawer.

The fact is, OS X and iOS have more in common that does Metro and Windows. The only innovation here is how MS can call everything and anything "Windows" (as though that is a comforting selling point for people) and get away with it. And now the Surface requires a keyboard (and a surface on which to place it) to be "productive". Hello Netbook 2. More smoke and mirrors.

Originally Posted by Macky the Macky 

It's enough to know that you will be able to dance like Monkey boy once you get this thing in your hands.

*Warning: Microsoft does not warrant nor does it recommend use of the Surface™ while dancing or moving one's center of gravity in any fashion.

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Originally Posted by igriv 

 

Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.

 

Your'e not quite getting it. You can't undercut the iPad. Yes, you can sell something cheaper. And that's what it will be: cheaper. To "undercut" the iPad you will have to lose money as the poster you commented on suggested. To make something comparable, as good as the iPad, it will inevitably start out more expensive than the iPad because others can't match Apple's production processes and supply chain -- both of which Apple has worked hard at and innovated at for a decade. Yes, MS will have to cut margins... they will have to lose money to sell a comparable quality product at the same price as the iPad. Just as "ultra" book sellers found out (you know the ones that are barely giving away "ultra" notebooks at twice the thickness and half the batter life and that flex like a piece of paper)

So, to be selling at a comparable price, MS is selling a cheaper product: that's a given. To emulate Apple and also sell with high margins, well, you can see the MS strategy: everything is about the cover. Hundred buck addon to Surface, or 119 as accessory. Problem is, you really need that keyboard with a Surface to be "productive". Whereas iOS has much more depth than Metro and doesn't require one; its OS X underpinnings are far more solid as a stand alone OS, and the touch UI is not merely surface deep.

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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 

 

Why all the faith?

I said "It may suck horribly"- That's as much faith as I give it.  :)

The slightly frayed looking edge on this advertising image looks a bit iffy.

Originally Posted by AnalogJack 
The slightly frayed looking edge on this advertising image looks a bit iffy.

Out of what is the cover made, anyway?

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Originally Posted by Mac_128 

Yes, but if this is the low-end consumer model, how much will the entry level pro model be that will run a full version of Windows 8?

At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software.  With Apple your choices are a tablet that doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution (and doesn't do mouse at all, does it?), or a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen or a way to ditch the keyboard.

If the "full" version of the Surface isn't a total disaster it provides the advantage of being a touch tablet when that's all you need and a reasonable laptop replacement for more serious keyboard work.  I can see that appealing to a lot of road warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro64 

The Real issue with the keyboard is at what point do people hate it once they realize their finger tips get snore from banging into the hard surface. Besides the tactile feedback the regular keyboard provided the keys allow your fingers to de-accelerate so you do not bottom out and hit hard. This had been the trade off for years on how small of a keystrock you can make and still make it usable.

How is that different than typing on the screen of a tablet?  The benefit is larger keys placed in a more convenient position.  It's a zero-key-travel proposition with or without the keyboard.

Originally Posted by v5v 
At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software.

There's a reason this isn't a good idea. If the last decade of Windows tablets didn't tip you off to it, will you ever learn it?

The ability to connect any Bluetooth keyboard available is "doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution"?

So which is it? You want a keyboard or you don't? Laptops shouldn't have touchscreens. Not under the definition of what we think is a "laptop" right now, at least.

I think that we'll find this is exactly why it will be a total disaster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMGS 

   So you WANT to use a cable to get video out???   

 

Sounds more like you want a laptop..   It comes with all those useless ports, and has a keyboard permanently attached..

Okay, so I take my iPad to the Legion hall with a pitch for a new sound system on it.  They have a nice big screen projector there which will make it easy for everyone to see it.  Oh wait, they don't have an Apple TV so no AirPlay.  Hm, how will get the video out of the iPad and onto their big screen?  Oh yeah!  That CABLE you were so quick to dismiss!

I think it's awesome that you occupy a space in the computing continuum that makes ports "useless" to you.  You may note, however, that a great many of us use our computers for more than chatting, whacking off and turning our brains into porridge with so-called "games."  We ingest, spit out, collaborate, make, modify and mutate huge, hairy HEAPS of media that requires really a lot of connecting goezouttas into goezintas.  Huge, fast storage devices, input devices, specialized output devices, older-than-built-just-this-afternoon legacy devices and just-ain't-ever-gonna-adopt-the-wireless-protocol-du-jour devices are all part of the daily regimen.  We therefore celebrate and cherish our ports.

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Originally Posted by Evilution 

 

I'll wait until the firesale in January.

For real savings on Surface Faptops watch the garage sales in the spring. 

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

The ability to connect any Bluetooth keyboard available is "doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution"?

Why, why, WHY do I let myself get sucked into your arguments over details that completely (and deliberately) ignore the POINT? Why don't I just ignore you?

Try this... the Surface offers a more "elegant" keyboard solution.  Is that better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

So which is it? You want a keyboard or you don't?

For some things, yes.  For other things, no.  That's why the idea of a keyboard that travels effortlessly with the device but gets out of the way when not needed is appealing.  But of course you understand that.  You're just ignoring the real point in order to make points with a pointless point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Laptops shouldn't have touchscreens. Not under the definition of what we think is a "laptop" right now, at least.

Okay, I know I'll regret it later, but I'll bite: WHY shouldn't laptops have touchscreens?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Out of what is the cover made, anyway?

We can only guess but it is certainly not made of anything that is perfectly stable like glass or metal. Perhaps some sort of artificial fibre reinforced resin by the look of it. Whatever it is it appears to have no edge finish, probably in order to maintain the 'surface' profile. It looks like it will be subject to warping and fraying.

Also note that there are two keyboards, one with no tactile keys for $100 and one with tactile keys for $130. Due to the small price difference and due to the obvious fact that some sort of feedback is a must on anything that is not a purely software keyboard, then it can safely be assumed that the standard $100 keyboard, which is what most users will opt for is probably going to be an unmitigated disaster.

Originally Posted by v5v 
…the Surface offers a more "elegant" keyboard solution.

Okay, that's an opinion. Mine is that it doesn't.

Think of the last vertical touchscreen you not only enjoyed using for extended periods, but saw any reason to use whatsoever.

That's why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by v5v 

 

Okay, so I take my iPad to the Legion hall with a pitch for a new sound system on it.  They have a nice big screen projector there which will make it easy for everyone to see it.  Oh wait, they don't have an Apple TV so no AirPlay.  Hm, how will get the video out of the iPad and onto their big screen?  Oh yeah!  That CABLE you were so quick to dismiss!

 

I think it's awesome that you occupy a space in the computing continuum that makes ports "useless" to you.  You may note, however, that a great many of us use our computers for more than chatting, whacking off and turning our brains into porridge with so-called "games."  We ingest, spit out, collaborate, make, modify and mutate huge, hairy HEAPS of media that requires really a lot of connecting goezouttas into goezintas.  Huge, fast storage devices, input devices, specialized output devices, older-than-built-just-this-afternoon legacy devices and just-ain't-ever-gonna-adopt-the-wireless-protocol-du-jour devices are all part of the daily regimen.  We therefore celebrate and cherish our ports.

Like the guy said, You really have a laptop-wired brain focus.

The Apple TV is very tiny and a no-brainer to hook up; so bring your own to use with your iPad and Airplay away. You'll look a lot more audience interactive facing them with an iPad not drooping with cables. 

If you celebrate and cherish your ports, then such a highly portable device as an iPad doesn't make sense because wires tie such a device down and defeat its best feature. If you think of media crunching as a desktop and laptop function where cables are important; then the tablets become the opposite where media presentation and portability are paramount.

Use the right tool for the different jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by v5v 

 

Okay, I know I'll regret it later, but I'll bite: WHY shouldn't laptops have touchscreens?

...because when you try to squash gnats on your laptop screen and it's touch sensitive you can cause all kinds of data loss or changes. 

Users generally don't want to be raising their hands up to poke the screen when it's far easier to do the same thing more conventionally.

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Originally Posted by igriv 

 

Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.

 

Apple's gross margins are fat because of their scale of purchasing. This allows Apple to sell product at prices barely above the competitors costs. Interestingly enough it was the iPod successes that got Apple to the power house component buyer they are today. There's far less room to maneuver under the Apple-set retail price point than you realize.