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Apple to show 'a little more' at Oct. 23 'iPad mini' event - Page 5

post #161 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashMyTstDummy View Post

Is it just me that thinks the top of the Apple logo with the leaf looks like an arse with a turd coming out?

I'd be lying if I said that didn't cross my mind.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #162 of 226
Can people please quit calling this iPad Air. There is ZERO chance a smaller iPad is called iPad Air. If anything it will be called iPad Mini because that's what everyone in the media and on blogs/tech sites have been calling it and a name the general public might be familiar with.
post #163 of 226
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
If anything it will be called iPad Mini because that's what everyone in the media and on blogs/tech sites have been calling it and a name the general public might be familiar with.

 

Mixed messages.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #164 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can people please quit calling this iPad Air. There is ZERO chance a smaller iPad is called iPad Air. If anything it will be called iPad Mini because that's what everyone in the media and on blogs/tech sites have been calling it and a name the general public might be familiar with.

1) So long as you know what a person is referring to when they say iPad mini, iPad nano, or iPad Air it doesn't really matter how people refer an unannounced product.

2) iPad Air makes a lot of sense so you're right that they probably won't name it something that reasonable.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #165 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) So long as you know what a person is referring to when they say iPad mini, iPad nano, or iPad Air it doesn't really matter how people refer an unannounced product.
2) iPad Air makes a lot of sense so you're right that they probably won't name it something that reasonable.
Why exactly does iPad Air make sense?
post #166 of 226

Will this Kotex Minipad, ehrll..., Ipad mini blends better than either Iphone5 or Galaxy S3?

I know that Iphone5 seems to blend faster than Galaxy S3. It's hard to believe that a more metallic object like Iphone5 will blend quicker than the cheapo plasticky Galaxy S3....

 

post #167 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) I think those prices are way too high for a device that would seem to be designed to suck the air out of low end of the market. Anything higher would seem to point to the 9.7" iPad.
2) I still don't see how you cold get all the pixels in the iPad (3) using the high density displays of the iPhone 5 but 4.27x larger sheets and expect it to be anything but more expensive than those devices. Making tech smaller, lighter and more power efficient costs money! That hasn't changed.

 

1) The device that sucks the air out of the low end of the market would be the proposed $249 iPad Mini in the lineup.

 

2) I never said that it would have the same higher quality displays as the iPhone 5 or iPad 3.  I said the same panel as in the iPod Touch 5th Gen which is $100 to $150 cheaper than the price points I suggested.  Thus the retina iPad Mini is in fact more expensive than the smaller example.  You can argue that $100-$150 more is an insufficient but that's not cheaper than the touch.

post #168 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can people please quit calling this iPad Air. There is ZERO chance a smaller iPad is called iPad Air. If anything it will be called iPad Mini because that's what everyone in the media and on blogs/tech sites have been calling it and a name the general public might be familiar with.

Apple doesn't listen to what the general public says because if they did the iPhone 5 would have been calle... oh wait

 

But seriously, I don't think that they are listening anyone on this one, we have zero clue on what they are going to call it.

I think that Air sounds strange for an iPad, the MacBook was called that way because it was a lot slimmer and lighter.

Mini feels right to me, and it would allow them to use one of their naming conventions again.

 

And can someone explain to me how they could possibly price this at less than 300 $ when the iPod Touch is at 299$?

 

I think it will be 349$.

post #169 of 226
"Apple to show 'a little more' at Oct. 23 'iPad mini' event"
Quote:
Less is more

Who strive - you don't know how the others strive
To paint a little thing like that you smeared
Carelessly passing with your robes afloat,-
Yet do much less, so much less, Someone says,
(I know his name, no matter) - so much less!
Well, less is more, Lucrezia.

-- Robert Browning --

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/226400.html
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post #170 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs View Post

Will this Kotex Minipad, ehrll..., Ipad mini blends better than either Iphone5 or Galaxy S3?
I know that Iphone5 seems to blend faster than Galaxy S3. It's hard to believe that a more metallic object like Iphone5 will blend quicker than the cheapo plasticky Galaxy S3....


A large part of the answer appears to be the density. The S3 seems to be bouncing off the blades while the iPhone is heavy enough that it stays low enough to get hit by the blades more frequently.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #171 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Apple doesn't listen to what the general public says because if they did the iPhone 5 would have been calle... oh wait

But seriously, I don't think that they are listening anyone on this one, we have zero clue on what they are going to call it.
I think that Air sounds strange for an iPad, the MacBook was called that way because it was a lot slimmer and lighter.
Mini feels right to me, and it would allow them to use one of their naming conventions again.

And can someone explain to me how they could possibly price this at less than 300 $ when the iPod Touch is at 299$?

I think it will be 349$.
$349 for how many GB? Microsoft is selling 32GB Surface for $499 without the cover and people are bitching about it being too expensive.
post #172 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


A large part of the answer appears to be the density. The S3 seems to be bouncing off the blades while the iPhone is heavy enough that it stays low enough to get hit by the blades more frequently.

Here's a video comparison between the latest iPad and the Nexus 7 showing the damage from falls and submersion in water. I was pretty darn surprised at the water results. I think you will be too. (Hint: the Nexus7 may have a bit better build quality than you think)


Edited by Gatorguy - 10/17/12 at 6:12am
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post #173 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

"Apple to show 'a little more' at Oct. 23 'iPad mini' event"
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/226400.html

I had no idea that the phrase went back that far. Thanks.

It doesn't apply to learning or knowledge, however, and I think you and your grandchildren would agree, sitting around in that iPad circle.
post #174 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

"Apple to show 'a little more' at Oct. 23 'iPad mini' event"
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/226400.html

I had no idea that the phrase went back that far. Thanks.

It doesn't apply to learning or knowledge, however, and I think you and your grandchildren would agree, sitting around in that iPad circle.

 

Yeah, I was surprised too...  Originally I was going to attribute it to Bauhaus, but decided to look it up...  the Mies Van Der Rohe reference makes sense... but Robert Browning?

 

That reminded me of something I learned in HS English:

 

 

This:
Quote:
The year’s at the spring,
And day’s at the morn;
Morning’s at seven;
The hill-side’s dew-pearled;
The lark’s on the wing;
The snail’s on the thorn;
God’s in His heaven—
All’s right with the world!

 

Then this:

Quote:

That 'bird on the wing' thing...

is just some more of Browning's clowning!

Contrary to what you've heard...

The wing is really on the bird!

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #175 of 226
I'm holding out for the iPad Nano with 1/2" screen!
post #176 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

That would have been too easy.

And they had to stress the fact that they have a LITTLE more to show, hence smaller iPad.

 

That makes me doubt that we'll see anything else.

 

 

How about:

 

a little MORE

 

as in more than one thing to show!

 

 

 

 

Oh.  What's that?  Me think me hears Santa's sleigh bells...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #177 of 226
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Oh.  What's that?  Me think me hears Santa's sleigh bells...

 

Phil Schiller is revealing that he is, in fact, Santa Claus. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #178 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, I was surprised too...  Originally I was going to attribute it to Bauhaus, but decided to look it up...  the Mies Van Der Rohe reference makes sense... but Robert Browning?

That reminded me of something I learned in HS English:


This:


Then this:



A qestion for the ages: Is the wing on the bird, or is the bird on the wing?

Lemme think about that.
post #179 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Lemme think about that.

Would you like me to search the web for:

"Is the wing on the bird, or is the bird on the wing?"

 

~Siri

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #180 of 226

I've been doing some information gathering re the size of iOS on various devices:

 

 

iPad 1:       64 GB - 58.1 GB Available == 5.9 GB iOS 5

iPad 2:       64 GB - 58.1 GB Available == 5.9 GB iOS 6

iPad 3:       64 GB - 57.2 GB Available == 6.8 GB iOS 6

 

 

iPhone 1........8 GB -   7.1 GB Available == 0.9 GB iOS 3.13

iPhone 4S....64 GB - 57.4 GB Available == 6.6 GB iOS 6

iPhone 5......64 GB - 57.3 GB Available == 6.7 GB iOS 6

 

All this makes me think that Apple won't release an 8 GB iPad Mini unless they're prepared to emasculate  iOS.

 

Especially since the smallest iPod Touch is 16 GB (4th or 5th generation).

 

 

I posted this earlier... now, I'm not so sure of the 8 GB model.

 

 

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here are some configurations and numbers to play with.

 

Underlined are the sweet spot configurations.

 

It is assumed that there is value to continue to offer the iPad 2 as a full-size  mid priced tablet for education, special enterprise needs that are price sensitive.

 

     Mini             iPad2       iPad3         SSD

 

  *  $199                                             08 GB

  *  $249      * $299                           16 GB

  *  $299       * $349       * $499        32 GB

                     * $399        * $649       64 GB

                                        * $799      128 GB

 

 LTE $100     3G $100      LTE $100

 
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #181 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I've been doing some information gathering re the size of iOS on various devices:


iPad 1:       64 GB - 58.1 GB Available == 5.9 GB iOS 5

iPad 2:       64 GB - 58.1 GB Available == 5.9 GB iOS 6

iPad 3:       64 GB - 57.2 GB Available == 6.8 GB iOS 6


iPhone 1........8 GB -   7.1 GB Available == 0.9 GB iOS 3.13

iPhone 4S....64 GB - 57.4 GB Available == 6.6 GB iOS 6

iPhone 5......64 GB - 57.3 GB Available == 6.7 GB iOS 6


All this makes me think that Apple won't release an 8 GB iPad Mini unless they're prepared to emasculate  iOS.

Especially since the smallest iPod Touch is 16 GB (4th or 5th generation).


I posted this earlier... now, I'm not so sure of the 8 GB model.

You make a convincing case.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #182 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Lemme think about that.

Would you like me to search the web for:

"Is the wing on the bird, or is the bird on the wing?"

 

~Siri

 

LOL!  Actually, Siri would have found at least 1 hit:

 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=22740

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #183 of 226
I am going to buy iPad Mini if it have processor A6 and Camera as in new iPod Touch. It's enough for me to buy iPad Mini.
post #184 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The Nexus 7 has 240 ppi. I'm hoping that the iPad mini gets IGZO at 217 ppi and the devs will just have to deal with another layout which is what you were saying earlier would be necessary anyway just because of the physical dimensions.

It's possible. You know, I'm torn over this. I hate the idea of fragmentation. At some point, Apple will do more to change things, as things advance. But I don't like to see it too close together so that we have large numbers of old devices still out there. Apple waited to have three phones out with 960x640 before they added another size, and discontinues the old screen phone at the same time.

They have two screen resolutions out now. I would expect them to wait until the old one is gone first.
post #185 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

False.  The touch points have a minimum size of 44x44 points if they meet the HIG.  A 44x44 point button will be the exact same physical size on the new iPad mini as they are on the iPhone.  If a 44 point button is unusable on the Mini then it would be likewise unusable on the iPhone and the HIG is broken.  

A 44x44 point button on the 10" iPad would be 19% larger.  Likewise the same font will be 19% larger on the iPad than the iPad mini.  It is NOT twice as large.

There are many sites that have UI mockups of the 7.85" iPad.  I suggest you look at the mockups on your existing iPad to see what the mini UI will look like.

Here is a good set:  http://seveneightyfive.fscked.com

The flipboard example is closest to a textbook.  

Note that the font remains highly readable and the layout doesn't change.  Ignore the slight fuzziness as it will not exist on the real iPad mini and is an artifact of his resizing the iPad UIs down to the 7.85" size.

If you don't have an iPad and would like to see on paper there are printable mockups here:

http://www.macstories.net/news/get-a-sense-of-what-a-7-85-ipad-mini-would-be-like/


Here is a good summation:


http://admin.imore.com/solving-7-ipad-mini-interface

As the summation agrees with what I've been saying, I don't understand why you disagree.

Unless the app recognized the mini as a smaller device with the same resolution as the iPad 2, and changes the layout to match the smaller size, everything will be smaller by the percentage of the screen size, boxes, text, pictures, etc. the same layout will be smaller.

While much of that will be fine, a fair amount won't. But it will be worse if the mini had a retina screen. On my retina iPad, details are much finer. Most of that would be lost on a retina mini. It would simply be too fine to see. Again, unless its redone for the smaller screen size.

I understand all you've been saying here, but much of it is flat out wrong, because the devices are assumed to be a certain resolution at a specific size. When designed, the UI's are designed for that size. This is exactly why Apple quadrupled the number of pixels on the phone and tablet. With a smaller screen, everything will be smaller. I'll say it a thousand times if required. The standards only app,y when used at the no inal screen size. Once a different screen size is used, those size standards go out the window.
I understand that selection boxes will be fine, and they are sized the same as the original iPhone had them, and doubling the Rez has no effect, because the developers have accommodated that already. But their are many other elements that have been developed just for the retina display that can't be used at a lower resolution, either at all, or well.

A lot of this is lure convenience. I have books with formulary inside. Previously, I continually had to double tap them to read them, because the detail was lost in the more coarse screen. Now, I can read them without tapping, but they are still small, and a lot of the Greek letters used in the formula's are difficult to render. Cut that size down, and again, I'll have to double tap, because they will be sharp, but too small to read.

My main argument here is not about a mini iPad, which I'm for, but for a retina screen mini, which at this time, I think will be too expensive, and too soon for developers to take into account, as they will now have three different things to develop for. When Apple discontinues the iPad 2, the time will be right.
post #186 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

So your position is that retina doesn't matter?  Mkay.

I disagree.  And I believe that retina is worth paying a little more.  

If this is not the case then why buy the iPad 3 over the iPad 2?

Also if you print out the paper mockups and trim down the side bezels down to iPhone side bezel size the result is a device around 1/4" taller and 1/4" wider than the original Kindle Fire.  That's a much handier device than the iPad 2.

I never said that it doesn't matter. I've said that it would cost too much to make now, if we're looking at a really competitive price, and notice that Google just announced, no doubt because of the mini, a Nexus 7 tablet for $249 with 32GB flash.

I'm also saying that I don't think all the fragmentation that will occurs is great, but with a 1024x768 tablet, the problem will be less, for now. I would expect that next year, we could see a retina mini.
post #187 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's fine. The iPad is a digital device which means you don't need the same area as pre-printed text and images book. You can change the layout to have plenty of text and then click what is essentially a thumbnail that will open into a 3D model of molecule for Biology, show you an animation of a pulley for Physics, show you a clip of the Hindenburg burning for History, etc. Would a larger iPad be better? Sure, but it's also more expensive. Schools use "PC" screens that were smaller than the TV screens we have at home but that doesn't mean they couldn't be learning tools.

What you're suggesting for a textbook sucks. Sorry to say that, but it does. That's not the concept behind textbook information retrieval. I've been working with this for a long time in K-12. For college, it's one thing, but as you move down in grade, ease of use becomes paramount. The less the student needs to do to see the information, the better, the more they have to click on, the less they will click on.
post #188 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

This is because we've printed the paper mockups and seen the 7.85" UI in our existing iPads.  

I've done the same thing too.
post #189 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Sometimes you make up the silliest claims Mel. Remember why Google supposedly moved so quickly to make Moto a buyout offer, and offered so much? Moto was reportedly planning IP suits against others including Android licensees, and MS was a rumored suitor.  You somehow make a leap of logic to come up with Motorola suing others as Google's proxy?? 



 



You also conveniently ignore Motorola dropping the only IP case started against a competitor since Google took over, in this case Apple, which would be possible evidence of Google's sincerity. You're not very convincing. 



Oh please! Google simply didn't want anyone to buy Motorola because they wanted all those patents, most of which seem worthless to them. No one else would have bought Motorola if Google didn't pay far more than they were worth. And you seem to love rumors. No one knows why Motorola dropped the case. Assumptions abound. L e is that they didn't think they could win. The other is that app,e and Google are negotiation so e settlement. You can be sure it wasn't because they were being good hearted.

Of all the big companies, Google is the only that refused to promise that they wouldn't use FRAND patents to sue other companies, or to try to use them for product I junctions. Both the EU and the US government have expressed their unease over that, Nd indeed, in the EU, Motorola is being investigated, with Samsung, over this very issue. They may be investigated here over it as well.

If Google wanted to, they could stop all the lawsuits, and take the high road. But they're not, and so they won't.

Oh, and they coulalso drop their exclusive page turn patent license they get from Stanford, and let Stanford license it to all their competitors.
post #190 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Even if that screen actually has more screen real-estate than other 7" tablets?

What do other 7" tablets have to with comparing it to using textbooks written specifically for a 10" iPad.
post #191 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Mixed messages.

Of course, we've been over this already, but I like the numbering scheme. What are we going to call the iPad next year? The New New iPad? The New iPad version 2? The Second New iPad? The iPad 2013?
post #192 of 226
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
What are we going to call the iPad next year? The New New iPad? The New iPad version 2? The Second New iPad? The iPad 2013?

 

Next year's iPad is "the new iPad". This year's iPad becomes "iPad". It's not difficult to imagine.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #193 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
Of all the big companies, Google is the only that refused to promise that they wouldn't use FRAND patents to sue other companies, or to try to use them for product I junctions. Both the EU and the US government have expressed their unease over that, Nd indeed, in the EU, Motorola is being investigated, with Samsung, over this very issue. They may be investigated here over it as well.

Not true at all Mel. In fact Nokia comes to mind right away with their most recent statement at the UN supporting injunctions over SEP infringement when necessary. You also (again conveniently?) forget that Nokia wanted an injunction on Apple devices using FRAND infringement claims, pressuring Apple into a settlement last year. Qualcomm is another who very recently reiterated that taking SEP injunctions off the table was a bad idea. And you're well aware, or should be, that Rockstar, Core Wireless, Mosaid and a couple of other so-called patent trolls are attacking other tech players using, even leasing, FRAND-pledged IP transferred from the likes of Apple, Microsoft and Nokia. Those are real proxies doing the dirty work so they can make half-truth pledges.

 

But it is revealing that you consider investigations by government agencies to be proof enough of wrongdoing as far as you're concerned. That way I know what side you're standing on when Apple comes under a Justice Dept. or EU microscope. . .

 

or could that only apply when it's NOT Apple. We both know the answer to that don't we.

 

Anyway, rather than hijack this thread any further why not start a new thread and I'll be happy to get more into detail if you wish. Or don't if you'd rather not.


Edited by Gatorguy - 10/18/12 at 4:48pm
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post #194 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Next year's iPad is "the new iPad". This year's iPad becomes "iPad". It's not difficult to imagine.

No, this year's iPad becomes last year's iPad. But what after that? It does get confusing, esp. after a few years. Then we start saying; "You know, the iPad from two years ago."
post #195 of 226
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
No, this year's iPad becomes last year's iPad.

 

That's what I said. I don't get why you don't understand the naming. 

 

In the store, you'll see "the new iPad". The product's name will be 'iPad'. You'll also see "iPad" in the store. That's the model released the previous year. The name of that product is also iPad. Delineated by the year of introduction.

 

The existence of the iPad mini probably even throws out the idea of having two iPads available at once, much less three, so that's not even a concern. If it were, it'd just be iPad, iPad, and the new iPad in the store (in a hypothetical situation years down the road). For next year, it would have been iPad 2, iPad, and the new iPad. That's no more difficult to figure out than what "G" and "S" and "GS" mean.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #196 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Not true at all Mel. In fact Nokia comes to mind right away with their most recent statement at the UN supporting injunctions over SEP infringement when necessary. You also (again conveniently?) forget that Nokia wanted an injunction on Apple devices using FRAND infringement claims, pressuring Apple into a settlement last year. Qualcomm is another who very recently reiterated that taking SEP injunctions off the table was a bad idea. And you're well aware, or should be, that Rockstar, Core Wireless, Mosaid and a couple of other so-called patent trolls are attacking other tech players using, even leasing, FRAND-pledged IP transferred from the likes of Apple, Microsoft and Nokia. Those are real proxies doing the dirty work so they can make half-truth pledges.

But it is revealing that you consider investigations by government agencies to be proof enough of wrongdoing as far as you're concerned. That way I know what side you're standing on when Apple comes under a Justice Dept. or EU microscope. . .

or could that only apply when it's NOT Apple. We both know the answer to that don't we.

Anyway, rather than hijack this thread any further why not start a new thread and I'll be happy to get more into detail if you wish. Or don't if you'd rather not.

Nokia had Claims other than FRAND against Apple. Nokia has made statements agreeing that FRAND patents should be taken off the tablet. I do t know about Qualcomm. As far as patent trolls go, yes, I'm aware, but I wasn't including them with actual manufacturers.
post #197 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's what I said. I don't get why you don't understand the naming. 

In the store, you'll see "the new iPad". The product's name will be 'iPad'. You'll also see "iPad" in the store. That's the model released the previous year. The name of that product is also iPad. Delineated by the year of introduction.

The existence of the iPad mini probably even throws out the idea of having two iPads available at once, much less three, so that's not even a concern. If it were, it'd just be iPad, iPad, and the new iPad in the store (in a hypothetical situation years down the road). For next year, it would have been iPad 2, iPad, and the new iPad. That's no more difficult to figure out than what "G" and "S" and "GS" mean.

You said that last year's iPad becomes just the iPad.

Actually, even your explanation is confusing.
post #198 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Nokia had Claims other than FRAND against Apple. Nokia has made statements agreeing that FRAND patents should be taken off the tablet. I do t know about Qualcomm. As far as patent trolls go, yes, I'm aware, but I wasn't including them with actual manufacturers.

Is this the Nokia statement you're thinking of? It was just a few days ago at the ITU roundtable discussion on (F)RAND policies.

 

“There are situations were injunctions against unwilling licensees are a necessary remedy for intellectual property rights holders, such as a total refusal to negotiate a licence, or refusal to pay compensation determined by a competent court,”

read a statement from Nokia.

 

BTW, the original 10 patents that Nokia asserted against Apple, demanding an injunction as one remedy, were all standards-essential as far as I know.  From Nokia themselves:

 

"The ten patents in suit relate to technologies fundamental to making devices which are compatible with one or more of the GSM, UMTS (3G WCDMA) and wireless LAN standards," Nokia said.


Edited by Gatorguy - 10/18/12 at 6:17pm
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #199 of 226
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
You said that last year's iPad becomes just the iPad.

 

Yeah. The iPad 3 right now is just "iPad". It's marketed as "the new iPad". "The new" gets dropped when the new model is released. Seems pretty simple.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #200 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As the summation agrees with what I've been saying, I don't understand why you disagree.

 

Because it clearly dose NOT agree with you've been saying...it says the opposite and I even quoted it for you. 

 

If you want to find someone that has done some analysis and agrees with you go ahead and quote them.  Do not attempt to twist this analysis to come to the exact opposite conclusion.  Again I quote:

 

"Everything would then simply stay the same. Buttons and touch targets would be smaller, but not unusably so. The "slack" that currently exists between 3.5-inch iPhone interface elements and 9.7-inch iPad elements would just disappear, and you'd have the same basic iPad look with the same basic iPhone feel.

 

Keeping the current iPad interface and scaling it down would mean developers and users could run the same iPad apps they do today. Universal binary sizes could likewise remain the same, since no new interface sizes or asset sizes would be necessary. White space wouldn't increase, so the visual density of apps would remain the same.

 

It's the simplest solution, and those are the ones Apple typically implements."

http://admin.imore.com/solving-7-ipad-mini-interface

Quote:
Unless the app recognized the mini as a smaller device with the same resolution as the iPad 2, and changes the layout to match the smaller size, everything will be smaller by the percentage of the screen size, boxes, text, pictures, etc. the same layout will be smaller.

 

Around 19%.  For the very smallest buttons allowed the difference is going from around 1/3" to around 1/4".  The button becomes exactly the same size as it would be on the iPhone.

 

 

Quote:
While much of that will be fine, a fair amount won't. But it will be worse if the mini had a retina screen. On my retina iPad, details are much finer. Most of that would be lost on a retina mini. It would simply be too fine to see. Again, unless its redone for the smaller screen size.

 

 

Retina makes ZERO difference for UI element sizes.  A 44x44 point button on retina is rendered as 88x88 pixels while it is rendered as 44x44 on the non-retina.  Physically they are the same size.  If someone is depending on retina to render correctly then it doesn't work correctly on the iPad 2.  That would be a poorly designed app and their art assets are created wrong.

 

 

Quote:
I understand all you've been saying here, but much of it is flat out wrong, because the devices are assumed to be a certain resolution at a specific size. When designed, the UI's are designed for that size. This is exactly why Apple quadrupled the number of pixels on the phone and tablet. With a smaller screen, everything will be smaller. I'll say it a thousand times if required. The standards only app,y when used at the no inal screen size. Once a different screen size is used, those size standards go out the window.

 

You do not understand and it is not wrong.  Apple SPECIFICALLY STATES 44x44 POINTS SHOULD BE THE MINIMUM UI TARGET SIZE.  The Apple HIG takes into account screen density when it states that for ALL Apple iOS devices.  There are not two difference minimums for iPhone and iPad.  There are not two different minimums for retina vs non-retina.   The reason why this works just fine for a 7.85" iPad Mini is because it is the same pixels per inch the iPhone.  While everything is smaller the they are NO SMALLER THAN THEY WOULD BE IF RENDERED ON THE IPHONE.

 

Therefore ANY UI element that meets the Apple HIG recommendations will have an interaction target of sufficient size to be usable on the iPad Mini.  THIS IS WHY WE DESIGN IN POINTS AND NOT PIXELS.

 

Quote:
I understand that selection boxes will be fine, and they are sized the same as the original iPhone had them, and doubling the Rez has no effect, because the developers have accommodated that already. But their are many other elements that have been developed just for the retina display that can't be used at a lower resolution, either at all, or well.

 

 

No, this is wrong and no you do not understand.  Developers did nothing to accommodate for that...it is built into IOS.  THIS IS WHY THE UI IS LAID OUT FOR 1024x768 AND NOT 2048x1536 ON THE RETINA IPAD.  THIS IS WHY WE DESIGN IN POINTS AND NOT PIXELS.  We had to do nothing except provide art assets for both retina and non-retina resolution for any UIImage.  There is no retina vs non-retina nib.  You make two nibs for a universal app:  iphone and ipad.  Not four for iphone, iphone retina, ipad, ipad retina.

 

The notable exception is anything that uses OpenGL.

 

Quote:
A lot of this is lure convenience. I have books with formulary inside. Previously, I continually had to double tap them to read them, because the detail was lost in the more coarse screen. Now, I can read them without tapping, but they are still small, and a lot of the Greek letters used in the formula's are difficult to render. Cut that size down, and again, I'll have to double tap, because they will be sharp, but too small to read.

 

Only because you have old eyes.  

 

If it can render clearly on the iPad 2 it will render clearly on the non-retina iPad Mini just fine.  If it can render clearly on the iPad 3 then it would render clearly on a retina iPad mini.  The iPad 3 formula will be around 19% larger than the iPad mini formula.   It is not half the size as you keep claiming.  If that difference makes it unreadable for you then it was pretty much borderline to begin with. 

 

 

Quote:
My main argument here is not about a mini iPad, which I'm for, but for a retina screen mini, which at this time, I think will be too expensive, and too soon for developers to take into account, as they will now have three different things to develop for. When Apple discontinues the iPad 2, the time will be right.

 

Developers have to do nothing between a retina and non-retina iPad Mini just as they had to do nothing between a retina and non-retina iPad or iPhone beyond providing the 2x images to UIImage.  If an app is designed for the iPad Retina (meaning it includes the 2x assets) then they will work just fine on the iPad Mini.

 

Cost is an entirely different issue.  It is not going to happen for a $249 base model iPad Mini.  Apple could charge more for a retina iPad Mini given the number of SKUs present.  They may not choose to do so.

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