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Apple to show 'a little more' at Oct. 23 'iPad mini' event - Page 3

post #81 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Well that was a discussion about the original Mac so it was some time ago. I believe it was on the folklore site but I could be wrong.
As a CEO Jobs would have the last say obviously but even a CEO doesn't always get what he wants. The numbers still have to work in the end.
I often state that Steve was a great salesman with one of his great strengths being the ability to twist the facts to make his case. Apple isn't hurting with iPad pricing but they certainly are hurting the competition. I actually think the whole company is actually happy to be in a position where they can actually lead the market while actually making a profit.

The margins are lower though. Still pretty good when compared to the competition. Apple's ability to get better pricing on most everything certainly helps. I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't getting those same lower margins on the Surface tablets. They would probably be happy to do so.
post #82 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What about them? You're not going to read a textbook on a small screen, no matter what the Rez.

I think 29.6 in square is plenty of room, even without considering the advantage of an interactive book.

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post #83 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post

Apple stock is dropping and for a little iPad, a little event at a little theatre in San Jose so the Apple executives don't have to drive far and don't miss much work!

 

A few seconds ago, for today: AAPL up $14.23 up 2.23%

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post #84 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post


They could.  Someone pointed out that if they don't use the new in-cell touch panels there aren't any supply constraints and it's rather old tech so yields are high and prices lower.  It's been around since the iphone 4.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.

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post #85 of 226

Everyone seems to be unanimous about the iPad mini, and seeing the news leak in recent times from Apple, it should not be a surprise at all.. Will be very interesting to see the pricing of the mini if at all they release one. looking at their present product pr icings there will be a lot of over laps and the worse thing that can happen is their own products eating into each others business. Google your move..lol

post #86 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.

 

 

32nm A5X vs 45nm A5X (i.e. higher yields per wafer).  Same kind of panel as in the iPod Touch 5th gen (cheaper type of panel than in the iPhone).  Other cost savings just because we're 6 months later than the original iPad 3 launch.

 

$299 for the current iPod touch.  Add the costs for a bigger panel and the A5X and you can guesstimate the price of a retina iPad mini viable around $399-$449 for 16GB...or $100-$50 cheaper than the current iPad.  I favor $399 for price parity with the iPad 2 but you can go $449 if you like.

 

Come spring the 4th gen iPad will get the A6.  $399 for a retina mini based on the A5X, $399 for the iPad 3 and $499 for a full sized iPad based on the A6X.

 

Or if you really prefer:  $399 for the iPad 3 with 32nm A5X, $449 for the retina mini with the 32nm A5X and $499 for the iPad 4 with A6X.

 

Same battery life...well...smaller backlights and going 32nm?

post #87 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I really don't think the screen is an issue. They could be using a number of different technologies, some bleeding edge.
Thanks for trying to point this out, but frankly I don't think people grasp this fact. IOS is not pixel based. However type should not be any smaller unless the UI element displaying it has also shrunk.
If anybody out there has actually kept up with the SDK and Apples guidelines they would realize that Apple has been warning developers for years not to assume specific resolutions. Thus apps that have followed the guidelines and used the SDK properly should have little trouble on the iPad Mini. The worst apps will be those with lots of bit maps.

The problem is still going to be screen density. There is more information in my retina apps than the older versions. So as far as Apple's supposed guidelines go, they haven't taken that into account.

So what happens when type on a full sized screen is brought down to a small screen. Type size requirements go out the window, so to speak. So do complex mathematical equations. I've got a number of those apps. They were hard to read on the 10" iPad 2. Much better now. But no matter how we look at it, it will be much harder on a small screen. Those apps have slightly smaller numbers, and letters than before, but with much higher detail, making them easier to read. That will be much worse on the small, low Rez screen.

 

The apps will, likely, have to be reworked to exploit the display size and resolution -- just as for the new iPhone 5.

 

I just started playing around with iOS development again -- haven't really done anything for a few years.  With Xcode 4.5 and iOS 6, there are a lot of new features that help the developer write apps that are resolution and screen-size independent.  Here's a bit from an iOS 6 update tutorial:

 

 

 

Quote:

 

It’s not hard to design a user interface for a screen that is always guaranteed to be the same size, but if the screen’s frame can change, the positions and sizes of your UI elements also have to adapt to fit into these new dimensions.

 

Until now, if your designs were reasonably complex, you had to write a lot of code to support such adaptive layouts. You will be glad to hear that this is no longer the case – iOS 6 brings an awesome new feature to the iPhone and iPad: Auto Layout.

 

Not only does Auto Layout makes it easy to support different screen sizes in your apps, as a bonus it also makes internationalization almost trivial. You no longer have to make new nibs or storyboards for every language that you wish to support, and this includes right-to-left languages such as Hebrew or Arabic. 

 

http://www.raywenderlich.com/20881/beginning-auto-layout-part-1-of-2

 

 

So, the developer's job is getting easier in this area -- and it should be less of a problem in the future.

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post #88 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Well, sure. I just hate for someone really looking at those numbers, thinking they're real, and making plans based upon them to be disappointed, or frustrated, if the pricing is higher. We can see people coming here looking for real answers, and thinking they are here, when they likely aren't.

 

I'm not too worried about that. When Phil Schiller announces the price on stage, with the number projected up on a slide behind him, that'll drown out whatever noise gets posted on these forums!

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post #89 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

 
It's always interesting trying to interpret what Apple is saying in these invites. "A little more" could simply mean more iPads, but little ones.
On the other hand, it could mean a new iPad, and a little more, as in a few more products.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


It could mean a slimmer iMac and Mac mini. Or iTunes. Or who knows.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Exactly, who knows? Only the Shadow knows, but he's dead, so we can't ask him.

And "little" and "more" could not only refer to "size" and "functionality" respectively, but concern value, i.e., priced lower and delivering higher as well.

post #90 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVicta View Post

An iPad mini starting out with a measley 8gb and an old, non-Retina screen all in the name of cost saving? Never would've happened under Steve. This is the beginning of our trip to Scullyville with Tim Cook as the bus driver.

it's facile comments like this that make reading the comments section of this site, less and less enjoyable! :(

post #91 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

You are probably right!

 

But, I would like to see Apple set the price so that they own the market (again) for the next 2-3 years.  The original $499 price did just that.  I'am certain that, when setting the price bar in 2010, Apple recognized the fact that they would need to do this again in a few years. 

 

In essence, Apple would be saying to customers and competitors, alike:  "Here is what you should get in a tablet for $199, $249, $299...".


I agree.  And while we are all a bit concerned with loss of quality, the reality of a market disruptor is an even bigger concern (at the moment).  And let's not forget that while a few in this forum think that a non-retina display is a degradation of quality, the masses don't give a crap and will still see the iPad Air as an improved device from the Nexus and Fire.  Here's a good article on the price umbrella: http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/07/22/apple-will-sell-a-smaller-ipad-or-be-disrupted-from-the-bottom-up-by-google-and-amazon/

post #92 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I was at the '07 WWDC where Steve was quite confidently saying that all you need to write apps was javascript. I guess he desecrated himself, then? Or, perhaps, Steve said whatever was expedient at the time, then as throughout his career.
 

Exactly - especially since it has been reported that a key Apple exec discussed a 7" iPad with Steve and Steve was NOT adamantly opposed to the idea.
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post #93 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post


They could.  Someone pointed out that if they don't use the new in-cell touch panels there aren't any supply constraints and it's rather old tech so yields are high and prices lower.  It's been around since the iphone 4.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.

 

 

What if it doesn't need  to be 2 x 1024x768 == 2048x1536?

 

Say 1.5 x 1024x768 == 1536x1152?

 

...Or any other reasonable pixel ratio that is cost effective and exploits the Apple advantages.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 10/16/12 at 12:17pm
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post #94 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hike up that skirt, Apple. Show me some of that good ol' iMac.

Yes my friend.  we need a new iMac retina. Woo hoo.

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post #95 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



The consensus was, that for Apple to be competitive in the tablet market -- its offering would need to be priced under $1,100 -- bolder wags were looking for a price of $1,000!


Steve Jobs...  And the price is $499.     Boom!

Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook

It was far from that.

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post #96 of 226
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!?!

Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number

This mystery host? Deep Roy

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post #97 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



The consensus was, that for Apple to be competitive in the tablet market -- its offering would need to be priced under $1,100 -- bolder wags were looking for a price of $1,000!


Steve Jobs...  And the price is $499.     Boom!

Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook

It was far from that.

 

Yes... In some ways, it is so much less than "a full computer in tablet form"... in other ways it is so much more...

 

These forums were filled with comments like "it is worthless if it doesn't run a proper OS."

 

Tell that to the airline pilots, shopkeepers, educators, students, tourists, health care givers, speech-challenged...

 

Not only has the iPad redefined a personal computer... it is redefining a personal appliance and a "proper OS" for what many of us need to do.

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post #98 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!?!

Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number

This mystery host? Deep Roy

 

 

I was hoping for the duo of Meg and Slim Whitman...

 

If it's worth doing... it's worth doing wrong... then yodeling about it!

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post #99 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Someone pointed out? Not really. If Apple is pricing this at $250, there's no way a retina screen will be included. Sorry, but I don't agree on that pricing. They are having problems as it is.
 

 

At $250 probably not.  But there's no reason that the $250 model isn't based on the older 3GS panel type and the higher end models use the iPhone 4 or the current iPod Touch panel type.  If there are 24 freaking SKUs that's a viable option...especially if they are using the newer iPod Touch panels and are supply constrained.

 

 

Quote:
I've got a lot of retina apps for my iPad that have small type that's simply too small to read if its used on a small screen. The UI would have to be reworked, as retina apps have a lot more information density than do older iPad apps.

 

You have old eyes.  I have old eyes.  Right before my near vision went to hell I could easily read very very small fonts on my iPhone 4.  Folks younger than 40 are wondering what we are talking about.

 

A 44pt by 44pt target on the iPad is around a quarter inch instead of around a third on an inch.  That's the size delta between a full sized iPad and a mini iPad.

post #100 of 226
One question:

Won't Google or Asus be able to sue Apple over trade dress if the mini-tablet ends up looking like the mockups?

I mean the mockups look identical to the Nexus 7 tablet, with the thick top and bottom and thin side bezels.

Just something I noticed, especially with the Samsung appeal pending ...
post #101 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

One question:
Won't Google or Asus be able to sue Apple over trade dress if the mini-tablet ends up looking like the mockups?
I mean the mockups look identical to the Nexus 7 tablet, with the thick top and bottom and thin side bezels.

Google has shown no propensity to sue anyone over IP. Apple could identically copy the Nexus 7 look with little danger that Google would sue over it IMHO. At the worst I think it would only be a bargaining chip in what I suspect is an on-going discussion over licensing.

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post #102 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

One question:

Won't Google or Asus be able to sue Apple over trade dress if the mini-tablet ends up looking like the mockups?

I mean the mockups look identical to the Nexus 7 tablet, with the thick top and bottom and thin side bezels.

Just something I noticed, especially with the Samsung appeal pending ...

 

The mockups look kinda' like... an iPad!

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post #103 of 226

First I'm 42 and my eyes are still great. (Nervously knocking on wood.)

 

I believe I'll toss out what I haven't seen mentioned here too much. I believe there will be an 8 gig iPad mini model and it will be exclusive to education. That will be the only iPad mini available at $250. They will be available only in black or white. Apple will also announce an iBooks textbook management system that is cloud based and allows schools to have students write, submit and turn in work via their iPads.

 

Apple will start offering the iPad mini available for CONSUMERS with a minimum of 16 gigs and an array of colors and the starting price will be $300.

 

It will be a win/win for Apple. They can claim they are keeping their margins and giving a better deal to volume discount customers. Consumers will pay more than they are paying for the Nexus 7 or Fire but they get a usable eco-system, COLORS, a rear and front facing camera (Nexus 7) and real support in terms of operating system upgrades, etc. for only $50 more. (16 gig Nexus 7 is $250.)

 

Apple fan boys will be somewhat disappointed on the specs because they will be rehashes of everything Apple already buys is massive quantities. Apple margins will thus be fine.

 

I will be buying one for Christmas. I've always thought the iPad was too big.

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post #104 of 226

People really latched onto this $249 number.

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post #105 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary View Post

Wow ....
So it's actually true, then.
It's really gonna actually happen after all.
After all of the haranguing Steve did against such a device.
His desecration over at Apple continues unabated ....
However, if it's good kit, then I'll get the 16GB/WiFi+4G one to hold me over till iPad 4 -- which is said
to be coming a few months later than per usual next year.

No, Steve was in on this, had to be. How long are product lead times?

His statements were meant to throw competitors off the trail, to throw tablet buyers away from inferior little tablets and toward the iPad, and to throw posters at AI into fits.
post #106 of 226

Seriously hoping they drop iTunes 11.

post #107 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by twosee View Post


My guess is a "little" iPad that does a whole lot "More" (than the competition??).

 

Of course, it might be the all-new iMac mini.... :(

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post #108 of 226
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
But as for "standard" textbooks, well, that's a different story. A well written textbook, electronic or otherwise, has the text and graphics (photo's, or whatever) in the proper spot in relation to the text. With a 10" iPad, that fairly easy to do, esp. with the retina model. But with a small screen, they will have to rethink it entirely. For younger children, regular texts are simpler, and can be reworked more easily, but more conventional textbooks, that are more information dense, will be more difficult. You can't simply allow the text and graphics to flow over the pages.

 

Yes. Yes. EXACTLY. No idea why people can't wrap their heads around this.


Originally Posted by nht View Post
Silent update on the store on the 23rd...perhaps an offhand remark at the event

 

iMac redesigns have always received reveals at events. 


Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Apple stock is dropping…

 

What's your frigging point? News flash, the stock closed up $15.03. 


Originally Posted by chriscaskey View Post
Seriously hoping they drop iTunes 11.

 

Or whatever they call it.

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post #109 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First I'm 42 and my eyes are still great. (Nervously knocking on wood.)

 

 

It happened to me at 45 and it happened fast.  As in "I got the iPhone 4 six month ago and it was awesome...now it's too small to read!"

post #110 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Google has shown no propensity to sue anyone over IP....

 

This is bull.  They have done this several times.  

They've also been asked several times to make a statement to the effect that they wouldn't sue anyone (since they are making all the noise about other lawsuits), and they declined every time. 

post #111 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yes. Yes. EXACTLY. No idea why people can't wrap their heads around this.

 

iMac redesigns have always received reveals at events. 

 

What's your frigging point? News flash, the stock closed up $15.03. 

 

Or whatever they call it.

iTunes 12 1wink.gif

post #112 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First I'm 42 and my eyes are still great. (Nervously knocking on wood.)

 

I believe I'll toss out what I haven't seen mentioned here too much. I believe there will be an 8 gig iPad mini model and it will be exclusive to education. That will be the only iPad mini available at $250. They will be available only in black or white. Apple will also announce an iBooks textbook management system that is cloud based and allows schools to have students write, submit and turn in work via their iPads.

 

Apple will start offering the iPad mini available for CONSUMERS with a minimum of 16 gigs and an array of colors and the starting price will be $300.

 

It will be a win/win for Apple. They can claim they are keeping their margins and giving a better deal to volume discount customers. Consumers will pay more than they are paying for the Nexus 7 or Fire but they get a usable eco-system, COLORS, a rear and front facing camera (Nexus 7) and real support in terms of operating system upgrades, etc. for only $50 more. (16 gig Nexus 7 is $250.)

 

Apple fan boys will be somewhat disappointed on the specs because they will be rehashes of everything Apple already buys is massive quantities. Apple margins will thus be fine.

 

I will be buying one for Christmas. I've always thought the iPad was too big.


I couldn't have said it better myself, except don't be too fixated on the $250/$300 prices.  They may be slightly higher than that.

post #113 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

These will be very helpful in a school system, particularly in the lower grades from K-3. I'm willing to bet that the companies writing professional iPad software, and there are a lot of them, will be busily adapting software for the smaller tablet. No doubt of that.
But as for "standard" textbooks, well, that's a different story. A well written textbook, electronic or otherwise, has the text and graphics (photo's, or whatever) in the proper spot in relation to the text. With a 10" iPad, that fairly easy to do, esp. with the retina model. But with a small screen, they will have to rethink it entirely. For younger children, regular texts are simpler, and can be reworked more easily, but more conventional textbooks, that are more information dense, will be more difficult. You can't simply allow the text and graphics to flow over the pages.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes. Yes. EXACTLY. No idea why people can't wrap their heads around this.

 

Because it's not true.  The same amount of text and images will fit on a 7.85" 1024x768 iPad as a 9.7" 1024x768 iPad.  You do not need to change the layout for an app or an ebook between the iPad Mini and iPad 2.

 

For normal iPad apps (not games) devs target a screen size of 1024x768 points for UI layouts.  I don't know how many times that needs to be repeated and these apps work the same on the iPad 2 and the iPad 3.

 

This is no different between a saying that 1080x1920 content is laid out exactly the same whether the display device is 7" or 70" as long as they are both 1080x1920 displays.

 

Text, images, video all the same.  Where you choose to sit in relation to the display device may differ but everything else is the same.

post #114 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

iMac redesigns have always received reveals at events. 

 

If there is a redesign and not a spec bump.

post #115 of 226
Originally Posted by nht View Post
If there is a redesign and not a spec bump.

 

Then it doesn't sell, because that's inexcusable. It has also never happened.

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post #116 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Then it doesn't sell, because that's inexcusable. It has also never happened.

 

It has never happened?  Like the Mac Pro?

 

If they pushed out Ivy Bridge iMacs and Minis with the exact same design and pricing folks would buy them just for the CPU and GPU (assume 650Ms like the MBP where applicable) speed bump and USB3 support.

post #117 of 226
Originally Posted by nht View Post
It has never happened?  Like the Mac Pro?


Right. It has never happened.


If they pushed out Ivy Bridge iMacs and Minis with the exact same design and pricing folks would buy them just for the CPU and GPU (assume 650Ms like the MBP where applicable) speed bump and USB3 support.

 

It's more than just the specs. People are buying them now. The tiny fraction of us that know about rumors are waiting and will buy when we want to. But people don't buy Macs for the specs.

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post #118 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First I'm 42 and my eyes are still great. (Nervously knocking on wood.)

 

I believe I'll toss out what I haven't seen mentioned here too much. I believe there will be an 8 gig iPad mini model and it will be exclusive to education. That will be the only iPad mini available at $250. They will be available only in black or white. Apple will also announce an iBooks textbook management system that is cloud based and allows schools to have students write, submit and turn in work via their iPads.

 

Apple will start offering the iPad mini available for CONSUMERS with a minimum of 16 gigs and an array of colors and the starting price will be $300.

 

It will be a win/win for Apple. They can claim they are keeping their margins and giving a better deal to volume discount customers. Consumers will pay more than they are paying for the Nexus 7 or Fire but they get a usable eco-system, COLORS, a rear and front facing camera (Nexus 7) and real support in terms of operating system upgrades, etc. for only $50 more. (16 gig Nexus 7 is $250.)

 

Apple fan boys will be somewhat disappointed on the specs because they will be rehashes of everything Apple already buys is massive quantities. Apple margins will thus be fine.

 

I will be buying one for Christmas. I've always thought the iPad was too big.

I agree with most of what you said, especially your assessment about education pricing.

 

My gut tells me that education model options will be limited to Black/Wifi/8GB for $199 or $249 for 16GB=2 SKUs for education market. No white. I don't think educators want to deal with white tablets or black/white options.

 

As for consumer models, I don't think we'll see anything otehr than black and white. I do think we will get Wifi + 2 cellular X 3 storage capacities X 2 "colors" =18 SKUs for the consumer models.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #119 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post


Because it's not true.  The same amount of text and images will fit on a 7.85" 1024x768 iPad as a 9.7" 1024x768 iPad.  You do not need to change the layout for an app or an ebook between the iPad Mini and iPad 2.

For normal iPad apps (not games) devs target a screen size of 1024x768 points for UI layouts.  I don't know how many times that needs to be repeated and these apps work the same on the iPad 2 and the iPad 3.

This is no different between a saying that 1080x1920 content is laid out exactly the same whether the display device is 7" or 70" as long as they are both 1080x1920 displays.

Text, images, video all the same.  Where you choose to sit in relation to the display device may differ but everything else is the same.

You have to understand that there are a number of people who are adamantly opposed to Apple releasing a smaller iPad (or, in fact, any product that said person doesn't agree with) and will come up with any bizarre excuse as to why it doesn't make sense. After their excuses are shot down, they'll come up with more - with no regard for reality or logic.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #120 of 226
anyone else think the colourful banner may indicate colourful iPad minis?
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