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Apple-provided Java plug-in removed with software update

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Apple on Tuesday rolled out two Java updates, one for OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard and another for OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, the latter offering improved security by uninstalling the Apple-provided Java applet plug-in from all web browsers.

Java Update


Tuesday's update for OS X Lion and Mountain Lion goes further and removes the Apple-built Java plug-in from all web browsers, forcing users to download the latest version curated directly by Oracle.

The move is the next step in Apple's plan to deprecate maintenance of its own Java runtime, which was announced in 2010. Apple subsequently dropped Java from OS X 10.7 Lion and placed the burden of future development on the OpenJDK community.

Both of today's updates are continuations of patches issued in June and September, which brought Java SE 6 to newer runtime versions, and disabled the plug-in by default upon installation. Those updates also configured the plug-in to deactivate when associated applets were not run for an extended period of time.

Java for OS X 2012-006



Lion Update


From the release notes:
Java for OS X 2012-006 1.0

Java for OS X 2012-006 delivers improved security, reliability, and compatibility by updating Java SE 6 to 1.6.0_37.

This update uninstalls the Apple-provided Java applet plug-in from all web browsers. To use applets on a web page, click on the region labeled "Missing plug-in" to go download the latest version of the Java applet plug-in from Oracle.

Please quit any web browsers and Java applications before installing this update.
Apple's update for Lion and Mountain Lion weighs in at 67.2B and can be downloaded via the Mac App Store or Apple's Support Downloads webpage.

Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 11



Snow Leopard Update


From the release notes:
About Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 11

Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 11 delivers improved security, reliability, and compatibility by updating Java SE 6 to 1.6.0_37.

On systems that have not already installed Java for Mac OS X 10.6 update 9 or later, this update will configure web browsers to not automatically run Java applets. Java applets may be re-enabled by clicking the region labeled "Inactive plug-in" on a web page. If no applets have been run for an extended period of time, the Java web plug-in will deactivate.

Please quit any web browsers and Java applications before installing this update.
The Java update for Snow Leopard comes in at 81.9MB and can be downloaded via Software Update or Apple's Support Downloads webpage.
post #2 of 30
Not seeing it yet.
post #3 of 30

6:52pm west coast.  Not seeing it.  Software update.  Nothing.  It is on Apple support web site though.

An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #4 of 30

9:06 p.m. central - downloading now.

post #5 of 30

Not seeing it yet here either (9:11 pm Flyover Standard Time), but I'm glad to see it's coming:  http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5493

 

When basically all major OS X security vulnerabilities today come from Java, its time to re-evaluate that relationship.  This way, the only people affected will be the few who intentionally seek out Java to support specific applications.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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post #6 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

When basically all major OS X security vulnerabilities today come from Java, its time to re-evaluate that relationship.  This way, the only people affected will be the few who intentionally seek out Java to support specific applications.

 

Like Photoshop!  Or was it Illustrator?  One of the two.  Stupid Adobe.

post #7 of 30
>> Apple subsequently dropped Java from OS X 10.7 Lion and placed the burden of future
>> development on the OpenJDK community.

This is not fair toward the Apple team; Apple entered the OpenJDK community, and did not placed the burden to external entities only !! The Apple team is an integral part of the OpenJDK, and they are contributing interesting technologies to Java, like an OpenGL based graphic pipeline.

Bappo
post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Like Photoshop!  Or was it Illustrator?  One of the two.  Stupid Adobe.

 

What the f*** does that have to do with whether or nor Apple distributes a Java web browser plug-in with every copy of OS X?

 

Context fail, much?

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply
post #9 of 30

WOW!  They are getting very efficient with their programming!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's update for Lion and Mountain Lion weighs in at 67.2B and can be downloaded via the Mac App Store or Apple's Support Downloads webpage.

 

Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #10 of 30
Chrome users, beware before applying this update! Oracle distributes only 64-bit version of Java, so it won't work in Chrome. This is clearly stated on the download webpage at: http://java.com/en/download/mac_download.jsp
post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

 

What the f*** does that have to do with whether or nor Apple distributes a Java web browser plug-in with every copy of OS X?

 

Nothing the f***.  It has to do with Adobe CS6 apps requiring installation of a Java runtime.  Java support has implications beyond just browser applets.

post #12 of 30
Could someone explain to me how the Mountain Lion update for Java updates Java to 1.6.0_37, while at the same time removing it (and requiring Java 7 to be installed from Oracle's site)?
post #13 of 30
I didn't really get that myself.
post #14 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit262 View Post

Could someone explain to me how the Mountain Lion update for Java updates Java to 1.6.0_37, while at the same time removing it (and requiring Java 7 to be installed from Oracle's site)?

 

It looks to me like the update just removes the Java web browser plugin, not the Java runtime (JRE).  The latter is what's used to run Java-based desktop applications.  It looks like it actually updates the JRE, which is why it's so large.

 

If that's the case, then the discussion about Adobe CS is moot -- it shouldn't be affected since it's made up of desktop applications.

 

The thinking here, I believe, is that almost all of the security holes in Java are exploited via the web (trojan websites, etc).  It's much more difficult to get someone to download, install, and run an application, than it is to just get them to browse to a website.

 

So by forcing people to use the Oracle version of the Java web browser plugin (which has security holes fixed more quickly than Apple's version), but keeping Apple's version of the JRE on the system so that Java-based desktop applications can continue to be used without interruption, you eliminate the vast majority of security exploits without too much hassle.

 
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post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

 

It looks to me like the update just removes the Java web browser plugin, not the Java runtime (JRE).  The latter is what's used to run Java-based desktop applications.  It looks like it actually updates the JRE, which is why it's so large.

 

If that's the case, then the discussion about Adobe CS is moot -- it shouldn't be affected since it's made up of desktop applications.

 

The thinking here, I believe, is that almost all of the security holes in Java are exploited via the web (trojan websites, etc).  It's much more difficult to get someone to download, install, and run an application, than it is to just get them to browse to a website.

 

So by forcing people to use the Oracle version of the Java web browser plugin (which has security holes fixed more quickly than Apple's version), but keeping Apple's version of the JRE on the system so that Java-based desktop applications can continue to be used without interruption, you eliminate the vast majority of security exploits without too much hassle.

Excellent. Thanks. I also discovered that even though the release notes say that the Java Preferences are removed (and indeed, looking in the Utilities folder you will no longer see Java Preferences) you can do a system search for "Java Preferences" and still get access to it. Although now the functionality is limited to enabling or disabling Java:

 

post #16 of 30

Well, this is the second time I've tried using Oracle's Java plugin and it's failed to operate both times. I ran the Apple updater and it installs the Java 7 plugin. I used the java.com test page to download and install the plugin but it just keeps spinning, meaning there's something wrong with the installation. I was able to back out to Java 6 following their instructions. 

 

Has anyone been able to get this to install and run the version verification page form Java?

post #17 of 30

I was able to download and install Java 7 from Oracle with no problem.

post #18 of 30

I tried installing again and the Java Preference utility was deleted by the installation. Went to the Java test page and it says it's missing the plug-in so I clicked on it to install it. (Checked /Library/Internet Plug-Ins and there is a link to the JavaAppletPlugin.plugin) Clicking More Info to download the plugin put me on a second page where I pressed the Agree button. This downloads the plugin without any authentication request. Quit Safari and tried again. Still says Missing Plug-in. I have Open safe files after downloading unchecked so it never installed it. The Oracle Java page assumes this box is checked, something every security guide says to uncheck. So, my original post was wrong and I never installed Java 7. This puts the Java preference pane in and testing the Java version finally works. Oracle needs to revise their download page so it doesn't say the plugin is automatically installed. So far, my initial testing of sites I know use Java are working but a banking site (mortgage calculator) didn't work previously so I'll need to try and find it to see if it actually works. For some reason, an alias/link for java and my boot drive showed up on the desktop. Not sure why. The entire Java package is now in the /Library/Internet Plug-Ins folder as a bundled app named JavaAppletPlugin.plugin. The original Java 6 is still in /System/Library/Java.

post #19 of 30

Ugh! I'm waiting for the phone calls from my various clients now... They use ZipForm Online, which exclusively uses Java! Before anyone starts by saying how easy it is to fix this problem, you've never been a computer consultant before!

post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

It looks to me like the update just removes the Java web browser plugin, not the Java runtime (JRE).  The latter is what's used to run Java-based desktop applications.  It looks like it actually updates the JRE, which is why it's so large.

 

If that's the case, then the discussion about Adobe CS is moot -- it shouldn't be affected since it's made up of desktop applications.

 

Right, like you said, it SHOULDN'T be affected, but it wouldn't be the first time a "fix" for one issue wound up being an accidental "broken" somewhere else. :)

 

I just found it interesting that of the three Macs I use regularly, only the one with Adobe CS apps installed even needs a Java runtime.  The other two don't have Java installed at all, neither runtime nor browser plug-in, and after two months I have yet to notice it's gone.  Does Photoshop's dependance on Java say anything about the quality of the programming, or is it a normal practice I just wouldn't have noticed if Apple hadn't quit developing their own version?

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

When basically all major OS X security vulnerabilities today come from Java, its time to re-evaluate that relationship. 
Vulnerabilities come from Apple taking months to update its own bundled version of Java... The current version for Mac from Oracle is Java 7 version 1.7.0_06 ...
post #22 of 30

 

The Apple Java for OS X 2012-006 1.0 update for Mac OS X 10.7, 10.8 operating systems is upsetting to many Google Chrome users!

 

The Apple Java for OS X 2012-006 1.0 update for Mac OS X 10.7, 10.8 operating systems removes Java applet support from all browsers.

If you exclusively or primarily use the 32-bit Google Chrome browser you are left with no way to run Java applets in the Chrome browser.

After installing the Java for OS X 2012-006 1.0 update, anyone who visits a web page with a Java applet in the Chrome browser is directed to download the Java 7 applet plug-in from Oracle. 

 

Attempting to do so generates the following message;

 

"Chrome does not support Java 7. Java 7 runs only on 64-bit browsers and Chrome is a 32-bit browser.

If you download Java 7, you will not be able to run Java content in Chrome and will need to use a 64-bit browser (such as Safari or Firefox) to run Java content within a browser. Additionally, installing Java 7 will disable the ability to use Apple Java 6 on your system."

 

If you go to the Oracle site and follow the links to get the Java 6 version at the "Java 6 download page", there is only a message as follows for the MAC OS X system.

 

"APPLE JAVA 6 FOR MAC OS X For Java versions 6 and below, Apple supplies their own version of Java. Use the Software Update feature (available on the Apple menu) to check that you have the most up-to-date version of Java 6 for your Mac. For issues related to Apple Java 6 on Mac, contact Apple Support. "

 

I understand Apple wanting to get out of supporting Java, but with updates that 1st force the use of Apple's Java and then another update that subsequently remove it altogether, without a "fix" from either Google Chrome or Oracle, seems disingenuous at best and a deliberate attempt to drive some of the competitor's Google Chrome browser users to their Safari browser, as a suspicious possibility.

post #23 of 30
Originally Posted by Gemini Apollo View Post

use… …Google Chrome…

 

Well, there's your problem.

 

…with updates that 1st force the use of Apple's Java and then another update that subsequently remove it altogether, without a "fix" from either Google Chrome or Oracle…

 

What responsibility of Apple's is it to wait for them to get their acts together?

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Right, like you said, it SHOULDN'T be affected, but it wouldn't be the first time a "fix" for one issue wound up being an accidental "broken" somewhere else. :)

 

I just found it interesting that of the three Macs I use regularly, only the one with Adobe CS apps installed even needs a Java runtime.  The other two don't have Java installed at all, neither runtime nor browser plug-in, and after two months I have yet to notice it's gone.  Does Photoshop's dependance on Java say anything about the quality of the programming, or is it a normal practice I just wouldn't have noticed if Apple hadn't quit developing their own version?

 

Every time you update anything which applications rely on (be it OS X itself, or the Java runtime), there's a chance things will break because some underlying behaviour that the application relies on has changed.

 

As for Adobe CS apps, I can't vouch for the quality of the programming in them, but Java on it's own is just fine as a programming language.  Objective-C (the native programming language used on OS X) actually has a lot in common with Java due to both being inspired by Smalltalk.  You can write crap code in any language -- it doesn't make the language bad.

 
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post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Apollo View Post

use… …Google Chrome…

Well, there's your problem.

Yep, but who uses that? I've never seen anyone, heard of no one who uses Chrome. And I'm in IT. Well, most of the time when I work - I just don't work that much. Still, what are the benefits of Chrome? I have Safari as my main browser, which is pretty locked down with Extensions and all, use F if the page doesn't load things that I want to see, and on occasion I fire up Omniweb, simply because I like that company.
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Yep, but who uses that? I've never seen anyone, heard of no one who uses Chrome. And I'm in IT. Well, most of the time when I work - I just don't work that much. Still, what are the benefits of Chrome? I have Safari as my main browser, which is pretty locked down with Extensions and all, use F if the page doesn't load things that I want to see, and on occasion I fire up Omniweb, simply because I like that company.

You'll looking live....at one right here! I haven't used Safari in over three years. I gave up on it when Apple was in the height of its anti Flash pissing match with Adobe. Used Firefox until they went rapid development and every extension I used was broken every two to three weeks. Have been on Chrome ever sense. Best browser out there. IMO

post #27 of 30

I've had Java disabled in Safari and Firefox for as long as I can remember and haven't come across even a single site that seems to be affected by that choice.  Obviously there must be sites that use it for something since Chrome users are reporting problems.  What are the circumstances in which a Java plug-in would be required?  Are there certain kinds of sites that use it?  Is it common?

post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I've had Java disabled in Safari and Firefox for as long as I can remember and haven't come across even a single site that seems to be affected by that choice.  Obviously there must be sites that use it for something since Chrome users are reporting problems.  What are the circumstances in which a Java plug-in would be required?  Are there certain kinds of sites that use it?  Is it common?

 

You must not work in any type of enterprise environment. Just about every "tool" to configure something uses a java applet, from printers (HP Directjet) to Cisco products (although I prefer the cli). There are also a number of enterprise websites that require java both intranet and internet sites. It's still to widely used to be deprecated. Just because it's not an ideal platform to use anymore doesn't mean it still isn't heavily in use today.

post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I've had Java disabled in Safari and Firefox for as long as I can remember and haven't come across even a single site that seems to be affected by that choice.  Obviously there must be sites that use it for something since Chrome users are reporting problems.  What are the circumstances in which a Java plug-in would be required?  Are there certain kinds of sites that use it?  Is it common?

 

Java is a full-fledged application development language (not just an interactive animation design technology like Flash).  As such, you can do very powerful things with it.  However, it's not something you'd generally use for a website which just displays some information or has a small amount of interactivity like posting comments, adding items to a shopping cart, and whatnot.  It's overkill for that purpose (not to mention far more expensive to create).

 

Where Java is useful is when you want to provide a browser-based application for configuring a device, configuring a network server, setting up a VPN connection, or the like.  Anywhere that you'd typically need to create a small application for many platforms (and distribute it) is a good candidate for a Java app.  Because then people can just point their browser at the right place, and they can use the app (as opposed to having to download the right version, install it, and run it).

 

However, as the technologies behind HTML5 have matured over the years, they can now do a lot of what Java was typically used for.  That's the main reason why Java is falling by the wayside on the web.  However, it's still used a lot in embedded systems (you just don't know that it's Java) and, as UltraSPARC mentioned, for enterprise applications.

 
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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraSPARC View Post

You must not work in any type of enterprise environment.

 

I do, I've just given up on trying to do ANYTHING on the corporate intranet via the Mac because our coders seem very, very, very focused on IE.  VERY focused.

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