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Microsoft says Surface screen outperforms iPad Retina display - Page 3

post #81 of 150
Release a product then we can talk, MS...
post #82 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

 

You mean this one? ;¬)

 

 

 

This image is so scary primarily because of their facial expressions.  I don't understand why they weren't directed to smile and act like they were actually happy to be holding the device rather than trying too hard to look "hard".  You can't pull off "gangsta hard" as an 8 year old in a Catholic school uniform.

post #83 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

This:

 

 

 

sounds counterintuitive, and cringeworthy excuse. But it might not be entirely impossible to pull off a perceptual prank on the human brain.

 

There are a couple of ways to tweak a lower resolution display to appear to have a higher resolution: assuming the photos are exactly the same and contain sufficient resolution. I'm assuming that they didn't display the photos at 1:1 ratio between photo pixels and display pixels. They probably took a full sized photo (12-24MP for typical DSLR) and allowed the device's software to scale the photo down to fit the device's screens. Depending on the algorithm used, this downscaling can affect the perceived sharpness of the image. If Microsoft boosted the contrast, or even applied tricks such as unsharp masking to the image as part of the downscaler, it would create the perception of "more detail." People perceive "detail" when there's high frequency changes in the luminance channel, so it could be something as simple as Microsoft's downscaler subsampling (as opposed to averaging the luminance of neighboring) pixels.

 

Either way, it sounds like the same arguments that we heard when Samsung swore PenTile = more resolution. Let it go, Microsoft. You don't have a retina display.


ClearType is not a prank. It works by taking advantage of the fact that each pixel is made up of 3 sub-pixels (RGB). Instead of controlling individual pixels to display fonts, ClearType controls intensity of subpixels, effectively gaining more resolution. It's clever (and patented) technology. The Quartz rendering engine in Mac OS does something similar but I don't know if it is employed in iOS. Adobe also uses a similar technology called CoolType in its PDF viewer. So I don't quite get why Microsoft thinks ClearType gives a unique advantage to Surface and Windows 8.

 

Furthermore, I don't see how ClearType can make a a highres photograph look better than on a RD-iPad.

post #84 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

he was trying to make a like for like comparison


WInRTinc Office = 14gb
iOS + iWorks software = ?? gb

both are taking space from their advertised capacities, 32gb is never, ever, 32gb of user accessible space.
I get that. But since iWork isn't pre-loaded it wouldn't count against the advertised storage. And yes I know the advertised space is always more than the actual space but on the iPad there's maybe 2GB difference where with the Surface it's much more significant. Hence why they don't even offer a 16GB model.
post #85 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I think your figure for iOS is wrong! i have a 64 GB iPad 3... I just checked and it says the capacity is 57.2 GB after the iOS. So, instead.of ~9 GB OS it is <7 GB for IOS 6.
One could also argue that iWorkis usable on an iPad whereas MS Office is not usable on the Windows RT Surface

That depends on how you define usable.  If by usable you mean, that the app was written from the ground up to take advantage of the multi-touch UI, then yes iWork more than likely is more usable than Office on RT, even though Office will have a touch mode. If by usable you mean functionality, then I disagree.  I have yet to see any other productivity software out there (with the exception of Keynote) that can the functionality of Office. Remember too, the version of Office for Windows RT is not watered down.  It has nearly all of the features of the standard version minus some enterprise specific features.  And you will be getting that for free.

 

Well, I've never used it...  But here's an expert who has:

 

 


Why bother? The sad state of Office 2013 touch support

Office 2013 makes concessions to tablet users, but they're far too few.

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/07/why-bother-the-sad-state-of-office-2013-touch-support/

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post #86 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVicta View Post

Microsoft blows. The only area the Surface outperforms the iPad is in blowing real hard.


Still, it would be nice if Apple got rid of their 'glaring' problem.

Now they are advertising "less glare" instead of fixing the problem.

 

The Microsoft engineer has a point.

You can trash the company and its products all you want, but still, he has a point.

 

I hope Apple wakes up and offers non-glossy displays soon. The reason they aren't is to force the sale of Mac Pro's to professionals - who can buy functional 'non-glossy' displays to go with them.

We won't see a non-glossy iMac until they kill the Mac Pro.

post #87 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post

 

This image is so scary primarily because of their facial expressions.  I don't understand why they weren't directed to smile and act like they were actually happy to be holding the device rather than trying too hard to look "hard".  You can't pull off "gangsta hard" as an 8 year old in a Catholic school uniform.

 

Since when has a little girl in a school uniform ever been classified as "scary" to anyone?  well other than in a zombie movie.

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #88 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I get that. But since iWork isn't pre-loaded it wouldn't count against the advertised storage. And yes I know the advertised space is always more than the actual space but on the iPad there's maybe 2GB difference where with the Surface it's much more significant. Hence why they don't even offer a 16GB model.

 

2gb my iphone has ,more space than that taken up, let alone a ipad3

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #89 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post


Still, it would be nice if Apple got rid of their 'glaring' problem.

 

Apple's problem? More like every Gorilla Glass device's problems. Apple has already show up major improvement on the iPhone 5 screens, beside anyone can solve this with an antiglare screen protector.  

 

Microsoft can claim anything they want, we don't know yet how better Surface's screen is when compared side by side to the iPad, Microsoft has not give anyone a chance to try it before the launching day.


Edited by BigMac2 - 10/17/12 at 3:23pm
post #90 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

he was trying to make a like for like comparison


WInRTinc Office = 14gb
iOS + iWorks software = ?? gb

both are taking space from their advertised capacities, 32gb is never, ever, 32gb of user accessible space.
I get that. But since iWork isn't pre-loaded it wouldn't count against the advertised storage. And yes I know the advertised space is always more than the actual space but on the iPad there's maybe 2GB difference where with the Surface it's much more significant. Hence why they don't even offer a 16GB model.

 

I get 7.2 GB on my iPad 3 for iOS 6.

 

Here's what I get for iWork:

 

 

344.7 MB  Keynote
349.0 MB  Numbers
297.7 MB  Pages
 
991.4 MB  iWork Total iPad 1-3, iPhone 1-5
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post #91 of 150

Well I guess since Microsoft thinks that people only use their computers for Excel, PowerPoint and Word, that makes a lot of sense. But I like to watch movies.

Apple had me at scrolling
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post #92 of 150
I wholeheartedly agree with the microsoft engineer - it is true, Apple's stuff is inferior.
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post #93 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

 

You mean this one? ;¬)

 

 

 

She doesn't look too happy, like someone marching into a store to get a refund because she really wanted an iPad and Grandma gave her one of those.

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post #94 of 150
My Subaru can beat a Ferrari across the line in quarter mile if the two cars are 100 yards apart on the starting line, and you stand on the starting line behind the Subie. My car will appear to cross the finish line first from that angle of observation. So my car is faster.
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post #95 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Well I guess since Microsoft thinks that people only use their computers for Excel, PowerPoint and Word, that makes a lot of sense. But I like to watch movies.

This is how MS views their Surface products;

 

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/windows8-laplet-hybrid/

 

Yes..a laplet.  it can be a laptop when you want it to be for office productivity work and a tablet when you want it to be for more "fun" stuff.  If anything, I guess it can be cheaper than buying a separate laptop and tablet device.  But at the end of the day only the market (and time) will decide if this will turn out to be a success.  I'm optimistic that it will but I could be wrong.  More quality competition is always better.

post #96 of 150

Let me guess, the keyboard has more "effective" travel in the keys than a real laptop keyboard. The whole package is "effectively" thinner than the iPad and is "effectively" lighter than the iPad. In other words, it it heavier, thicker and has a crap keyboard. In stores soon! Get in line!

post #97 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Since when has a little girl in a school uniform ever been classified as "scary" to anyone?  well other than in a zombie movie.

Rosemary's baby comes to mind.

J.
post #98 of 150
Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post
Correct.  A 32 GB iPad reports having a "Capacity" of 28 GB.  iOS then takes up some of that space.

 

Wait, does iOS still report gibibytes as gigabytes, too? I realize the original foundation was Leopard, which did, but surely they've changed that by now.

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post #99 of 150

Apparently, most retailers have no idea what they are selling. Here's an illuminating story from The Verge:  http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/17/3514556/windows-8-vs-windows-rt-surface-confused-microsoft-store-employees

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #100 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wait, does iOS still report gibibytes as gigabytes, too? I realize the original foundation was Leopard, which did, but surely they've changed that by now.

iOS has always reported with BASE2 but the NAND capacity rating is based on BASE10, like with HDDs, so you are guaranteed to have at least 16, 32, or 64 billion bytes.

Now in Leopard Mac OS X finally made the plunge and started reporting in Finder with BASE10. At least iTunes and Disk Utility report as BASE2.

Now the system needs BASE2 to properly count but consumers more readily understand BASE10 so I'm perfectly happy with that change, I just wish they went all in for apps that aren't for low-level access, which would mean excluding Terminal and Disk Utility.

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post #101 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Well I guess since Microsoft thinks that people only use their computers for Excel, PowerPoint and Word, that makes a lot of sense. But I like to watch movies.

This is how MS views their Surface products;

 

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/windows8-laplet-hybrid/

 

Yes..a laplet.  it can be a laptop when you want it to be for office productivity work and a tablet when you want it to be for more "fun" stuff.  If anything, I guess it can be cheaper than buying a separate laptop and tablet device.  But at the end of the day only the market (and time) will decide if this will turn out to be a success.  I'm optimistic that it will but I could be wrong.  More quality competition is always better.

 

 The way I understand it:

 

  • At the end of this month, MS will release Windows 8, Office 2013  Preview and the Windows ARM RT Surface Tablet (WART)
  • In early 2013 MS will release Office 2013 Official and the Windows 8 Intel Surface Tablet (W8T or W8ST -- Wait or Waste... you choose)
  • In July 2013 MS wil release Sinofsky
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post #102 of 150

History repeats...

 

 

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post #103 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 The way I understand it:

 

  • At the end of this month, MS will release Windows 8, Office 2013  Preview and the Windows ARM RT Surface Tablet (WART)
  • In early 2013 MS will release Office 2013 Official and the Windows 8 Intel Surface Tablet (W8T or W8ST -- Wait or Waste... you choose)
  • In July 2013 MS wil release Sinofsky

Lol.  You definitely got the first two right.  The 3rd bullet point, you can replace Sinofsky with Ballmer assuming Win8 is a failure.

post #104 of 150

Honest questions:

 

What does the user do when the Surface Kickstand breaks?

 

How do you aim the camera when holding the Surface? In portrait?  In landscape?

 

How do you use the Snapon Keyboard while standing or sitting on the couch?

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post #105 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Since when has a little girl in a school uniform ever been classified as "scary" to anyone?  well other than in a zombie movie.

The girls in that ad make a good argument for the child catcher in chitty chitty bang bang.
post #106 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

History repeats...

 

 

Slate MK II

 

Ha!  That video reminds me of the original RIM PlayBook video!

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post #107 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 The way I understand it:

 

  • At the end of this month, MS will release Windows 8, Office 2013  Preview and the Windows ARM RT Surface Tablet (WART)
  • In early 2013 MS will release Office 2013 Official and the Windows 8 Intel Surface Tablet (W8T or W8ST -- Wait or Waste... you choose)
  • In July 2013 MS wil release Sinofsky

Lol.  You definitely got the first two right.  The 3rd bullet point, you can replace Sinofsky with Ballmer assuming Win8 is a failure.

 

Well... maybe Boof ' em...

 

Heres the thing(s):

 

I don't think the WART has much of a chance against the iPad or even Android tablets...  Too little, too late!   And, by what I read, Office 2013 on WART will be usable as a reader -- but little else.

 

The WAIT has missed this year's enterprise budget cycle, so I don't see any sizable business commitment before August 2013. even then, there is no assurance that enterprise will upgrade to Windows 8 or Office 2013 in any great numbers.  So, the single Windows [8] OS for all your computers and mobile devices is a dream that is unlikely to be realized. 

 

So, we're left with:  Surface Tablets;  Windows 8;  Office 2013;  and Rin Tin Tin...   that's 3 dogs and a movie star!

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post #108 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

History repeats...

Slate MK II

Even the overflow action on that mockup was wore than the actual shipping product of iOS 1.0 on the original iPhone.

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post #109 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wait, does iOS still report gibibytes as gigabytes, too? I realize the original foundation was Leopard, which did, but surely they've changed that by now.

iOS has always reported with BASE2 but the NAND capacity rating is based on BASE10, like with HDDs, so you are guaranteed to have at least 16, 32, or 64 billion bytes.

Now in Leopard Mac OS X finally made the plunge and started reporting in Finder with BASE10. At least iTunes and Disk Utility report as BASE2.

Now the system needs BASE2 to properly count but consumers more readily understand BASE10 so I'm perfectly happy with that change, I just wish they went all in for apps that aren't for low-level access, which would mean excluding Terminal and Disk Utility.

 

I've always been in favor of a base 3 numbering system for computers -- the Tertiary Numbering System...  'course we'd need to come up with an acronym to replace BInary digiT...

 

Or, the aborigine number system... few and many!

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post #110 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

History repeats...

Slate MK II

Even the overflow action on that mockup was wore than the actual shipping product of iOS 1.0 on the original iPhone.

 

Yeah... That tablet gets my vote for the "Meg and Slim" award!

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post #111 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

 

Since when has a little girl in a school uniform ever been classified as "scary" to anyone?  well other than in a zombie movie.

post #112 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

"Scarface"?   Good one.  HAHAHA.

M$ always manages to do something cheap.  It's their nature.  M$ has never been a mfg that I would equate high quality.  They seem like the kind of company that will go cheap so they can make money.  I'm wondering how long they can keep their Scareface product on the market before they cave.   At the rate the rest of the PC industry is going, Microsoft might have to start designing desktops and laptop computers with their name on it instead of having to rely on Dell, HP, and others.  I wonder how much fall out there will be in the PC industry. IBM started the trend when they sold off to Lenovo.  Abandon ship!!!!

And Lenovo is making some of the most reliable computers in the world, and I believe they just took over from HP as No. 1 PC brand in the world. So... what is your point?
post #113 of 150

Ah majorcrap, saying something doesn't make it so.

Arrange for a scientific study, provide unbiased data, and cite your sources.

Until then it's just more hot air from Redmond.

post #114 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Honest questions:

What does the user do when the Surface Kickstand breaks?

How do you aim the camera when holding the Surface? In portrait?  In landscape?

How do you use the Snapon Keyboard while standing or sitting on the couch?
But it would never break. It's made out of durable VaporMg. Microsoft says you can hold Surface by the touch cover, shake it violently and it won't snap off. Because of course that's what people do with their tablets.
post #115 of 150

The tech world can be funny some days...if you release a product not as good as someone else's and price it higher, you simply claim your current hardware and/or software is "superior" with existing technology. ClearType is soooo 1998. Higher resolution does make a difference on displays, does MS QA their products? Go get buy some clues MS!

post #116 of 150
Can someone explain why Microsoft is charging you $20 more for a colored touch cover? The packaged models only come in black. If you want color you have to purchase the $499 model with the $120 color cover. And the 64GB model isn't offered for $599 without a cover so if you want a colored or type cover you're spending an additional $120-$130 on top of the $699, even if you never wanted the black touch cover in the first place. What a rip off.
post #117 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post

 

This image is so scary primarily because of their facial expressions.  I don't understand why they weren't directed to smile and act like they were actually happy to be holding the device rather than trying too hard to look "hard".  You can't pull off "gangsta hard" as an 8 year old in a Catholic school uniform.

I think you are being far too literal. The sequence with the "gangsta" school girls was hilarious exactly because of its absurdity. Well done Microsoft.

post #118 of 150

The fact that these things are for sale, but no reviews have been released, speaks volumes to the type of product we're discussing.

 

When Apple releases an iPad, it shows us wonderful, humanitarian videos of how their products are changing the world. We see musicians mixing, we see families keeping in touch using FaceTime, and those in the media are given the devices prior to release so that the reviews hit at the same time as the product. Add to all of this MS' silly display PR disaster, and you can quickly see that the Surface is going to go the way of the Zune. In terms of pricing, MS isn't thinking as clearly as its supposed ClearType display. $120 for a keyboard cover? That would be high for an Apple product, let alone one containing MS branding.

 

The product has some unique features and holds promise, but so far MS is not executing well on the marketing front.

post #119 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

The fact that these things are for sale, but no reviews have been released, speaks volumes to the type of product we're discussing.

I'm under the impression they'll be on sale in about 2 weeks.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #120 of 150
Microsoft says lots of things.....
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