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The REAL 2012 Presidential Debates

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

Tired of the corporatist marionette show "debates" between the 2 major party candidates?

 

Try watching some REAL debates and discuss them in this thread:

 

 

IVN.us to Host First Online Presidential Debate

 

  • Participants: Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party & Dr. Jill Stein, Green Party
  • Thursday, October 18, 2012 @ 4pm Pacific/7pm Eastern

 

Here is the video of the debate:

 

 
 
  • Participants: Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party; Dr. Jill Stein, Green Party; Virgil Goode, Constitution Party; Rocky Anderson, Justice Party
  • October 23rd @ 8pm Central Time, University Club of Chicago
  • Can be viewed online, via satellite, and other media outlets to be announced soon

 

Here is video of the Third Party Debate moderated by Larry King. The debate begins at 1:02:55:

 

 

 

Please let me know of any other REAL debates you are aware of and I'll add them to the list.


Edited by jazzguru - 10/24/12 at 8:14am

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #2 of 11

Different debates.  We'll see how "real" they are when we see if the moderators instantly fact-check the candidates while also forcing them to answer the questions that are being asked.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #3 of 11

Thanks so much for the info JG. As I've mentioned, since my vote for Romney wouldn't alter anything in California, I'm about 98% on giving my vote to Gary Johnson to help make sure the Libertarian Party more easily qualifies for matching funds in future federal elections. SDW is in a swing state so he better darn well vote for who I tell him to or else he's in trouble though. lol.gif

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Thanks so much for the info JG. As I've mentioned, since my vote for Romney wouldn't alter anything in California, I'm about 98% on giving my vote to Gary Johnson to help make sure the Libertarian Party more easily qualifies for matching funds in future federal elections. SDW is in a swing state so he better darn well vote for who I tell him to or else he's in trouble though. lol.gif

 

Just trying to get the word out there for people interested in thinking outside the current 2 party paradigm. :)

 

I think it's great that you are almost set on supporting GJ in CA. If he can get at least 5% that will open up a lot of opportunities for the LP there.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #5 of 11

I'll tune in!

 

It's widely predicted that whoever wins the election, whether Obama or Romney, that 12 million jobs will be added over the next 4 years. The effect of that will be substantial for either of the candidates, but if it's Obama then I can well imagine the right moving even further to the right and the Tea Party wing breaking off to form a new party with clout. That clout will take time to build, but over time it could really change the current two party system.

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'll tune in!

 

It's widely predicted that whoever wins the election, whether Obama or Romney, that 12 million jobs will be added over the next 4 years. The effect of that will be substantial for either of the candidates, but if it's Obama then I can well imagine the right moving even further to the right and the Tea Party wing breaking off to form a new party with clout. That clout will take time to build, but over time it could really change the current two party system.

 

Where exactly is this "widely" predicted?

post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

 

Where exactly is this "widely" predicted?

Moody's Analytics predicts 12 million new jobs in the next four years whoever's president. Macroeconomic Advisers predicts 12.3 million whoever's president and even if you take the CBO's number of 9.4 million, that still gives a major boost in voter support to whoever gets elected. 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 10/18/12 at 2:24pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #8 of 11

Shame they cut out so often. It seemed too short. I'd like to see the Democracy Now debate.

 

 

"Just hours after President Barack Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney face-off in a secretly negotiated town-hall debateDemocracy Now! breaks the sound barrier by hosting a live two-hour debate between three additional presidential candidates: Jill Stein of the Green Party; Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party; and Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party. (An invitation was extended to Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party, but his campaign declined.)

Stream the debate live at democracynow.org on Wednesday, Oct. 16 from 8-10am EDT or tune in on one of the 1,100 stations that broadcast Democracy Now! throughout the United States.

As President Obama and Mitt Romney squared off in the first presidential debate, Democracy Now! was the only news outlet to get real-time responses from Stein and Anderson."

 

edit- this has already happened. Oh well, missed it. Here it is http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/17/exclusive_expanding_the_debate_with_third 

It's quite clever! 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 10/18/12 at 5:23pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 

I posted a video of the IVN debate in the OP. Well worth an hour of your time. I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but when I do I'll post any thoughts/comments I might have.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 

Okay, so I actually listened to the IVN debate as I've been working.

 

Despite technical issues (even though I'm pretty sure they were all using Macs), I found it to be a very informative and enlightening debate.

 

Although Gary Johnson is my preferred candidate of the two, I'm impressed by Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party - especially for her courageous protest at being excluded from the establishment 2 party system debates. While I fundamentally disagree with her views on climate change and approach to education, I think I agree with her on the majority of issues that are most important to me.

 

One question that kept coming to mind as I listened to her speak was: why isn't BR voting for her? (Feel free to answer that if you feel so inclined, BR. Ad-homs optional.)

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 

Last night's debate was refreshing! The candidates were respectful of one another and stuck to the issues. I learned a lot!

 

Click here for a good summary and full video of the debate. I've also added the video to the OP.

 

I find it more than a little ironic that we must turn to foreign media for comprehensive and complete coverage of our own elections because the corporate-controlled mainstream U.S. media is ignoring third parties.

 

Now to my comments on the debate. I'll just give some thoughts about each of the candidates and some things that stood out to me.

 

Jill Stein (Green) again impressed me on issues like foreign policy and the War on Drugs, but where she lost me was when she advocated "free" education and "free" healthcare for all. It's not really "free" - somebody has to pay for those services. And how would you collect taxes for those services? Using the force and violence of government. She made some great points about protecting our civil liberties and returning to the Constitution, but there is no provision in the constitution for free education and healthcare for all. Her mannerisms and delivery, at times, led me to believe she was intimidated or lacked some self confidence, but she spoke clearly and had some great things to say. 3rd place.

 

Rocky Anderson (Justice) was very much the same as Jill Stein on most positions, although ironically he seemed to mention the need to address the "problem" of climate change more than the Green Party candidate! He was also the most vocal advocate of gay rights and anti-discrimination laws - even going so far as to say he would want a constitutional amendment. I think he had the second-best presence of all the candidates on the stage and seemed very presidential. After hearing him, I would think BR would support him even over Jill Stein. 2nd place.

 

Virgil Goode (Constitution) came across as the least confident and even saying things like "I know most of you aren't going to like me for saying this, but..." and at one point reaffirming his view that we should not end the War on Drugs and telling people to not vote for him if they disagreed. I think his strongest points were advocating term limits for members of Congress and eliminating PACs and Super PACs, which allow large corporations and the wealthy to essentially buy candidates and elections. He came in 4th, from my perspective.

 

Gary Johnson (Libertarian) "won" the debate. Now I fully admit I might be biased since he was my choice before the debate, but I thought he had the best presence of all the candidates and did the best job of communicating a lot of information in a relatively short amount of time. He stayed on message and seemed confident and enthused. I prefer his solution to runaway education costs - end government-backed student loans and tuition rates will come down dramatically. Some other points he made: end the failed War on Drugs, get out of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. and bring our troops home, don't bomb/attack Iran, term limits for Congress, get government out of marriage, repeal the Patriot Act and NDAA, and other points.  He got the best applause from the audience and, to me, came across as the leader among the 4 candidates.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
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