When will the lies stop? Mitt's "Binders Full of Women" story not even true - Page 4

 

Tell me, sammi: What qualifies YOU to determine if someone is a "true" Christian?  You and your Lefty brethern always engage in this behavior.  You take a person or group or belief system, define it as you choose, and then excoriate all those who you deem not to meet your standards.  Listening to you talk about who "true" Christians are is like asking a Vegan for advice on the best cuts of beef. 

 

Funny how more of the greedy people seem to be on the left, as well as the gays for obvious reasons.

 

Personally, I don't think that Jesus would excoriate homosexuals, but I also don't believe that he would be supportive of gay marriage.  As for the greedy, I'm sure that he would have choice words for those individuals.  However, who are you classifying as "greedy"?  Might I guess Mitt Romney?  I don't imagine that Jesus would have any problems regarding Mitt Romney's wealth as he give more then generously of his wealth both in terms of tithing to his church as well as various charities beyond the LDS church.

 

Perhaps you should ask yourself why your argument rests on false choices.

 

Jesus took extremely strong stands on sexual morality, while at the same time dealing sternly with the problem of human greed.

 

Hmmm. There's a lot wrapped up in this sentence. Broad generalizations aside, who are you speaking of?

 

 

 

What is your standard for a "true Christian?" How do you determine if someone is a "true Christian" or not?

 

 

 

Yes it can be. Most people reject Him.

 

First of all, clean up your potty mouth if you want to engage in civil discussion.

I know anger is a way liberals try to hide the weaknesses in their arguments, but you do it more than most.

 

As I've said many times, Jesus was a conservative Jewish rabbi who lived in the Roman Empire. Jesus affirmed all the sexual morality teachings of the Bible and was criticized for reaching out to the disadvantaged and immoral, but never for affirming unlawful sexual practices. He was followed by prostitutes, for example, but no one ever accused him of affirming prostitution.

 

Jews hated the Romans largely for their idolatry and immoral sexual practices, including widespread homosexuality. If Jesus had ever once condoned homosexuality it would have been widely reported, and a feature at his religious trial. On the other hand, He clearly stated that he came "to fulfill the law" and never excluded sexual immorality from that. He also came down much harder on divorce than most modern "Jesus Freaks" care to do today.

 

As for greed, that's part of human nature that everyone (left or right) struggles with. Greed isn't just about money, though most Death-freaks pretend that it is. It shows up when people champion the killing of an unborn child to improve one's life, or the state-sanctioned killing of the aged and sick as a guise to save money. It's also quite prominent when people champion things like prostitution and drug legalization, where your personal desires are put ahead of the lives of the most vulnerable members of our society.

 

Come to think of it, most right-wingers who give in to greed just want to get rich. Most left-wingers who do the same end up killing people across the board.

 

That's why the left is so much more dangerous.

 

 

Case in point.  

When in doubt, change the subject. And don't answer the question that has been posed. EVER.

Edited by Bergermeister - 10/30/12 at 8:28pm

 

Not too difficult, SDW. If you have ever read the teachings of Jesus (they are quite short, and easy to understand) there is NOTHING there that espouses rightwing philosophy whatsoever. I have a bible in which those teachings - those which have survived the last 2000 years - are highlighted in red. Jesus's teachings are in opposition to rightwing philosophy. 

 

And regarding people who claim to be "Christian", all you have to do is observe the way they go about the world and treating others around them. Hanging a label around your neck, to garner favor with ones peers don't mean squat. The American right, in the eternal quest for ownership, have distorted the concepts of Christianity to include the baser aspects of life that Jesus' teachings reject - most especially greed, hardcore materialism, and selective intolerance/hatred.  Killing for profit isn't a particularly welcome bedfellow either.

 

Since 1980 and the Reagan years, the right has done a pretty damned good job of owning "Christianity"... in which 10s of millions of Americans - especially in the Bible Belt - have bought into a new, cherry-picked "convenience" version of the faith, which places the spotlight on a tiny number of red-flag issues - hardly representative of the spectrum of life and human behavior.

 

Care to cite a few example of how/where Jesus' teachings are in opposition to right wing philosophy, or are you just going to leave that broad generalization hanging?  As to those "claiming to be Christian", you can certainly find examples of those who say one thing and do another.  Let's take for instance the claim of cutting the deficit in half in his first term and then doubling it...  Most of the Christians that I know are charitable, caring individuals who have concern for their fellow man.  I'm not sure how these characteristics are in opposition to the teachings of Jesus.  Now of course, nobody is infallible and we are all going to have bad days and fail to live up to those ideals, and that is why they are referred to as ideals.  I think you aptly used the phrase cherry-picked, but it is you who are cherry-picking a relative minority and representing that as the norm.

 

Christianity is not an easy path to attempt to walk.  Human nature is often add odds with the teachings of Jesus, and the best anyone can do is strive to live in line with the teachings of Christ as best they can.  This is part of the nature of Christianity in the forgiveness of sin.  This may be what you refer to as "convenient", but I think practical is a much more accurate description.  There has only been one perfect person in all of human history, and nobody can reasonably strive to live up to that standard.  The best we can do is to strive for that ideal.

Yes, rock on.  Keep showing everyone how absurd your behavior is.  

Sammi, Please understand me when I say, i agree with the concepts you speak of here. But none of this excuses any actions of hypocrisy in this thread. I don't agree with the broad brush you have used, but Christianity has become a get out of jail free card for many "followers of Christ". They are able to somehow separate out their "christian lives" from their personal lives from their business lives. These are one set of people, and they exist on the right and the left.

I also know that many from the right and the left would be mortified to think you hold this opinion of them and are not at all like what you describe here. Try to be a bit more focused in your criticism of people you do not know nor have you ever had a chance to meet or read any facts on.

It's a party in here, all fun and no facts.

 

Well...  Jesus says (Matthew 5:17), "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."  Since homosexuality is condemned in the Bible in multiple place, for instance, (Lev 18:22-23) "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.", the question can be turned around as to where in the Bible does Jesus specifically condone homosexuality?

 

No.  I think that there is a bit of a difference between homosexuality which is condemned in multiple places in the bible and generally not condoned by both Christian and Jewish based religions and scholar, and the eating of Kosher foods which is a predominantly Jewish custom and most Jewish authorities throughout history have agreed that this law can be violated when human life is at stake. 

Do you answer questions honestly?

You know what, forget it. Thank you for the reminder why I left to begin with. Thank you very much. That is a not insignificant portion of my life I can use for actually doing something that matters.

Getting drawn into arguing with an egotistical ass is actually not one of those things.

 

He's just trolling you, NoahJ. Just put him on your block list and carry on. I like reading your posts.

 

It's more fun when you and sammi cite chapter and verse.  

Actually, no. The problem I see is that you are trying to force people to either change their mind or to make you change yours and that is not why I am here. I just want to have a discussion and hear alternate views without all the personal attacks. And you have your mind made up to the point that nothing will chnge it. Not even what you claim will. So it is pointless to get drawn into any argument with you. The problem is, once I get drawn in I feel the need to defend the people that I agree with from what is see as unwarranted attacks. I could stand toe to toe with you and give as good as I get. But I am not interested in that. Being right and winning an argument here is not worth a lot in the grand scheme of things. I have not seen very much change here in these forums. If anything it has created a much more polarized view with a lot more bile and vitriol. I just feel dirty after participating and I don't like it.

I think you have a position that is so much better stated than the path you take. You have to win at any cost. And that cost happens to be, in this case, my respect for or willingness to listen to your position or opinions. I am not taking the ball and going home, I am leaving the ball here and taking a shower.

And for the suggestion of putting you on ignore, I considered it, and decided that much of the conversation would not make sense if I did as you are so prolific here. It is too bad. An obviously good hearted person, intelligent and wanting to help but giving in to such base tactics. At least you can comfort yourself by saying that they did it first... Sigh...

Now go do your victory dance again and talk about how you made another evil Christian cry on their pillow. Meanwhile I will poke in for time to time and not get involved anymore. It is just not worth it.

 

 

As I said, fun.  Enjoying this.