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When will the lies stop? Mitt's "Binders Full of Women" story not even true - Page 4

post #121 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

 

The worst hypocrites, and there are tens of millions of them in the US, are those people who label themselves "Christian" ie "follow" the teachings of Jesus, while at the same time, fully embracing Ayn Rand type sociopathy, the excesses of capitalism, privilege, nepotism and materialism, the wholesale killing of people overseas for profit - account of baldfaced lies, state sponsored killing, general hatred/intolerance for minority groups, and the rest of the rightwing canon. 

 

Being a true Christian is a very tough call. I have met very few genuine ones, and more fakes - or "Convenience Christians" than I can count... and that is probably the same for anyone. It is so easy to talk the talk, while walking a different, but diametrically opposing walk.. especially when your peers are doing the same thing and will never call you on it.

 

The Truth can be tough.

 

Tell me, sammi: What qualifies YOU to determine if someone is a "true" Christian?  You and your Lefty brethern always engage in this behavior.  You take a person or group or belief system, define it as you choose, and then excoriate all those who you deem not to meet your standards.  Listening to you talk about who "true" Christians are is like asking a Vegan for advice on the best cuts of beef. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #122 of 151
Thread Starter 

Truth hurts.  Who would Jesus excoriate?  The gays or the greedy?  I think you know the answer even though you won't admit it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #123 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Truth hurts.  Who would Jesus excoriate?  The gays or the greedy?  I think you know the answer even though you won't admit it.

 

Funny how more of the greedy people seem to be on the left, as well as the gays for obvious reasons.

 

Personally, I don't think that Jesus would excoriate homosexuals, but I also don't believe that he would be supportive of gay marriage.  As for the greedy, I'm sure that he would have choice words for those individuals.  However, who are you classifying as "greedy"?  Might I guess Mitt Romney?  I don't imagine that Jesus would have any problems regarding Mitt Romney's wealth as he give more then generously of his wealth both in terms of tithing to his church as well as various charities beyond the LDS church.

post #124 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Truth hurts.  Who would Jesus excoriate?  The gays or the greedy?  I think you know the answer even though you won't admit it.

 

Perhaps you should ask yourself why your argument rests on false choices.

 

Jesus took extremely strong stands on sexual morality, while at the same time dealing sternly with the problem of human greed.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #125 of 151
Thread Starter 

Cite your sources regarding what Jesus had to say about homosexuality.  Furthermore, if you agree that Jesus didn't like greed, why are so many Jesus-freaks so fucking greedy?  Why is the party of Jesus, the party of Greed?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #126 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The worst hypocrites, and there are tens of millions of them in the US, are those people who label themselves "Christian" ie "follow" the teachings of Jesus, while at the same time, fully embracing Ayn Rand type sociopathy, the excesses of capitalism, privilege, nepotism and materialism, the wholesale killing of people overseas for profit - account of baldfaced lies, state sponsored killing, general hatred/intolerance for minority groups, and the rest of the rightwing canon.

 

Hmmm. There's a lot wrapped up in this sentence. Broad generalizations aside, who are you speaking of?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Being a true Christian is a very tough call (I could never be one myself, for many reasons, including such). I have met very few genuine ones, and more fakes - or "Convenience Christians" than I can count... and that is probably the same for anyone.

 

What is your standard for a "true Christian?" How do you determine if someone is a "true Christian" or not?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The Truth can be tough.

 

Yes it can be. Most people reject Him.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #127 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Cite your sources regarding what Jesus had to say about homosexuality.  Furthermore, if you agree that Jesus didn't like greed, why are so many Jesus-freaks so fucking greedy?  Why is the party of Jesus, the party of Greed?

 

First of all, clean up your potty mouth if you want to engage in civil discussion.

I know anger is a way liberals try to hide the weaknesses in their arguments, but you do it more than most.

 

As I've said many times, Jesus was a conservative Jewish rabbi who lived in the Roman Empire. Jesus affirmed all the sexual morality teachings of the Bible and was criticized for reaching out to the disadvantaged and immoral, but never for affirming unlawful sexual practices. He was followed by prostitutes, for example, but no one ever accused him of affirming prostitution.

 

Jews hated the Romans largely for their idolatry and immoral sexual practices, including widespread homosexuality. If Jesus had ever once condoned homosexuality it would have been widely reported, and a feature at his religious trial. On the other hand, He clearly stated that he came "to fulfill the law" and never excluded sexual immorality from that. He also came down much harder on divorce than most modern "Jesus Freaks" care to do today.

 

As for greed, that's part of human nature that everyone (left or right) struggles with. Greed isn't just about money, though most Death-freaks pretend that it is. It shows up when people champion the killing of an unborn child to improve one's life, or the state-sanctioned killing of the aged and sick as a guise to save money. It's also quite prominent when people champion things like prostitution and drug legalization, where your personal desires are put ahead of the lives of the most vulnerable members of our society.

 

Come to think of it, most right-wingers who give in to greed just want to get rich. Most left-wingers who do the same end up killing people across the board.

 

That's why the left is so much more dangerous.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #128 of 151
Thread Starter 

Chapter & Verse of Jesus denouncing homosexuals, please.  Anything less is fucking inadequate.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #129 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Truth hurts.  Who would Jesus excoriate?  The gays or the greedy?  I think you know the answer even though you won't admit it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Chapter & Verse of Jesus denouncing homosexuals, please.  Anything less is fucking inadequate.

 

Case in point.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #130 of 151
When in doubt, change the subject. And don't answer the question that has been posed. EVER.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #131 of 151
-----

Edited by Bergermeister - 10/30/12 at 8:28pm

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #132 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

Tell me, sammi: What qualifies YOU to determine if someone is a "true" Christian?  

 

You and your Lefty brethern always engage in this behavior.  You take a person or group or belief system, define it as you choose, and then excoriate all those who you deem not to meet your standards.  Listening to you talk about who "true" Christians are is like asking a Vegan for advice on the best cuts of beef. 

 

Not too difficult, SDW. If you have ever read the teachings of Jesus (they are quite short, and easy to understand) there is NOTHING there that espouses rightwing philosophy whatsoever. I have a bible in which those teachings - those which have survived the last 2000 years - are highlighted in red. Jesus's teachings are in opposition to rightwing philosophy. 

 

And regarding people who claim to be "Christian", all you have to do is observe the way they go about the world and treating others around them. Hanging a label around your neck, to garner favor with ones peers don't mean squat. The American right, in the eternal quest for ownership, have distorted the concepts of Christianity to include the baser aspects of life that Jesus' teachings reject - most especially greed, hardcore materialism, and selective intolerance/hatred.  Killing for profit isn't a particularly welcome bedfellow either.

 

Since 1980 and the Reagan years, the right has done a pretty damned good job of owning "Christianity"... in which 10s of millions of Americans - especially in the Bible Belt - have bought into a new, cherry-picked "convenience" version of the faith, which places the spotlight on a tiny number of red-flag issues - hardly representative of the spectrum of life and human behavior.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #133 of 151
Thread Starter 

Rock on, Sammi.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #134 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

 

Not too difficult, SDW. If you have ever read the teachings of Jesus (they are quite short, and easy to understand) there is NOTHING there that espouses rightwing philosophy whatsoever. I have a bible in which those teachings - those which have survived the last 2000 years - are highlighted in red. Jesus's teachings are in opposition to rightwing philosophy. 

 

And regarding people who claim to be "Christian", all you have to do is observe the way they go about the world and treating others around them. Hanging a label around your neck, to garner favor with ones peers don't mean squat. The American right, in the eternal quest for ownership, have distorted the concepts of Christianity to include the baser aspects of life that Jesus' teachings reject - most especially greed, hardcore materialism, and selective intolerance/hatred.  Killing for profit isn't a particularly welcome bedfellow either.

 

Since 1980 and the Reagan years, the right has done a pretty damned good job of owning "Christianity"... in which 10s of millions of Americans - especially in the Bible Belt - have bought into a new, cherry-picked "convenience" version of the faith, which places the spotlight on a tiny number of red-flag issues - hardly representative of the spectrum of life and human behavior.

 

Care to cite a few example of how/where Jesus' teachings are in opposition to right wing philosophy, or are you just going to leave that broad generalization hanging?  As to those "claiming to be Christian", you can certainly find examples of those who say one thing and do another.  Let's take for instance the claim of cutting the deficit in half in his first term and then doubling it...  Most of the Christians that I know are charitable, caring individuals who have concern for their fellow man.  I'm not sure how these characteristics are in opposition to the teachings of Jesus.  Now of course, nobody is infallible and we are all going to have bad days and fail to live up to those ideals, and that is why they are referred to as ideals.  I think you aptly used the phrase cherry-picked, but it is you who are cherry-picking a relative minority and representing that as the norm.

 

Christianity is not an easy path to attempt to walk.  Human nature is often add odds with the teachings of Jesus, and the best anyone can do is strive to live in line with the teachings of Christ as best they can.  This is part of the nature of Christianity in the forgiveness of sin.  This may be what you refer to as "convenient", but I think practical is a much more accurate description.  There has only been one perfect person in all of human history, and nobody can reasonably strive to live up to that standard.  The best we can do is to strive for that ideal.

post #135 of 151

Yes, rock on.  Keep showing everyone how absurd your behavior is.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #136 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Not too difficult, SDW. If you have ever read the teachings of Jesus (they are quite short, and easy to understand) there is NOTHING there that espouses rightwing philosophy whatsoever. I have a bible in which those teachings - those which have survived the last 2000 years - are highlighted in red. Jesus's teachings are in opposition to rightwing philosophy. 

And regarding people who claim to be "Christian", all you have to do is observe the way they go about the world and treating others around them. Hanging a label around your neck, to garner favor with ones peers don't mean squat. The American right, in the eternal quest for ownership, have distorted the concepts of Christianity to include the baser aspects of life that Jesus' teachings reject - most especially greed, hardcore materialism, and selective intolerance/hatred.  Killing for profit isn't a particularly welcome bedfellow either.

Since 1980 and the Reagan years, the right has done a pretty damned good job of owning "Christianity"... in which 10s of millions of Americans - especially in the Bible Belt - have bought into a new, cherry-picked "convenience" version of the faith, which places the spotlight on a tiny number of red-flag issues - hardly representative of the spectrum of life and human behavior.
Sammi, Please understand me when I say, i agree with the concepts you speak of here. But none of this excuses any actions of hypocrisy in this thread. I don't agree with the broad brush you have used, but Christianity has become a get out of jail free card for many "followers of Christ". They are able to somehow separate out their "christian lives" from their personal lives from their business lives. These are one set of people, and they exist on the right and the left.

I also know that many from the right and the left would be mortified to think you hold this opinion of them and are not at all like what you describe here. Try to be a bit more focused in your criticism of people you do not know nor have you ever had a chance to meet or read any facts on.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #137 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Rock on, Sammi.
It's a party in here, all fun and no facts.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #138 of 151
Thread Starter 

Still waiting for the chapter and verse in which Jesus condemns the homosexuals.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #139 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Still waiting for the chapter and verse in which Jesus condemns the homosexuals.

 

Well...  Jesus says (Matthew 5:17), "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."  Since homosexuality is condemned in the Bible in multiple place, for instance, (Lev 18:22-23) "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.", the question can be turned around as to where in the Bible does Jesus specifically condone homosexuality?

post #140 of 151
Thread Starter 

Do you keep Kosher?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #141 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Do you keep Kosher?

 

No.  I think that there is a bit of a difference between homosexuality which is condemned in multiple places in the bible and generally not condoned by both Christian and Jewish based religions and scholar, and the eating of Kosher foods which is a predominantly Jewish custom and most Jewish authorities throughout history have agreed that this law can be violated when human life is at stake. 

post #142 of 151
Thread Starter 

Do you stone disobedient children?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #143 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Do you stone disobedient children?
Do you answer questions honestly?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #144 of 151
You know what, forget it. Thank you for the reminder why I left to begin with. Thank you very much. That is a not insignificant portion of my life I can use for actually doing something that matters.

Getting drawn into arguing with an egotistical ass is actually not one of those things.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #145 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Do you answer questions honestly?

 

Svnipp claimed that Mosaic Law is still in full effect.  I'm wondering which laws he is going to weasel out of and why the homosexual laws are the only ones Christians of his ilk like to keep.

 

Of course, you are oversensitive about your religion (defense mechanism much?), so instead you just personally attack me, take your ball, and go home to cry in your pillow.  Whatever.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #146 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You know what, forget it. Thank you for the reminder why I left to begin with. Thank you very much. That is a not insignificant portion of my life I can use for actually doing something that matters.
Getting drawn into arguing with an egotistical ass is actually not one of those things.

 

He's just trolling you, NoahJ. Just put him on your block list and carry on. I like reading your posts.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #147 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Still waiting for the chapter and verse in which Jesus condemns the homosexuals.

 

It's more fun when you and sammi cite chapter and verse.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #148 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

He's just trolling you, NoahJ. Just put him on your block list and carry on. I like reading your posts.

I'm in the room.  How rude.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #149 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

It's more fun when you and sammi cite chapter and verse.  

http://www.openbible.info/topics/socialism

 

Here's a fun one:

 

 

 

Quote:

2 Corinthians 8:13-15

 

 

For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”

 

 

In other words, tax the rich.  -Jesus

 

 

Your turn.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #150 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Svnipp claimed that Mosaic Law is still in full effect.  I'm wondering which laws he is going to weasel out of and why the homosexual laws are the only ones Christians of his ilk like to keep.

Of course, you are oversensitive about your religion (defense mechanism much?), so instead you just personally attack me, take your ball, and go home to cry in your pillow.  Whatever.
Actually, no. The problem I see is that you are trying to force people to either change their mind or to make you change yours and that is not why I am here. I just want to have a discussion and hear alternate views without all the personal attacks. And you have your mind made up to the point that nothing will chnge it. Not even what you claim will. So it is pointless to get drawn into any argument with you. The problem is, once I get drawn in I feel the need to defend the people that I agree with from what is see as unwarranted attacks. I could stand toe to toe with you and give as good as I get. But I am not interested in that. Being right and winning an argument here is not worth a lot in the grand scheme of things. I have not seen very much change here in these forums. If anything it has created a much more polarized view with a lot more bile and vitriol. I just feel dirty after participating and I don't like it.

I think you have a position that is so much better stated than the path you take. You have to win at any cost. And that cost happens to be, in this case, my respect for or willingness to listen to your position or opinions. I am not taking the ball and going home, I am leaving the ball here and taking a shower.

And for the suggestion of putting you on ignore, I considered it, and decided that much of the conversation would not make sense if I did as you are so prolific here. It is too bad. An obviously good hearted person, intelligent and wanting to help but giving in to such base tactics. At least you can comfort yourself by saying that they did it first... Sigh...

Now go do your victory dance again and talk about how you made another evil Christian cry on their pillow. Meanwhile I will poke in for time to time and not get involved anymore. It is just not worth it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #151 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://www.openbible.info/topics/socialism

 

Here's a fun one:

 

 

 

 

In other words, tax the rich.  -Jesus

 

 

Your turn.  

 

 

As I said, fun.  Enjoying this.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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