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Revamped new iTunes 11 user interface hints at future of OS X - Page 2

post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The great thing about the original iPhone was that, although it was OSX under the hood, it didn't try to mimic desktop paradigms. I'm sure that it was a conscious decision on Apple's part so why try to mimic mobile paradigms on the desktop now?
I agree with charlituna though, the App Store should be a separate app.

There is absolutely no need for apps to be stored on the Mac, and no need to arrange them from the Mac. iTunes should only be for music, video, etc... The Mac App Store could have a section for mobile apps for people who want to absolutely buy from there.
post #42 of 70

Why impair laptops and desktop computers with generously-sized widescreen displays with the limitations of a user interface designed for small vertical format displays such as smartphones?  This seems to me to be hobbling iTunes even further, even if the underlying code in the application improves.  If nothing else, it's likely to be a deterrent against me switching from Android to an iPhone.  The sidebar in iTunes is a widespread feature of applications throughout the Mac world, and to throw it away suggests Apple really doesn't care about their OS X customers anymore.  The iTunes sidebar informed the Finder in OS X and it has become central to a host of both Apple and third-party applications; it's familiar and it's logical.  If an iOS oriented user wishes to hide it, that's one thing, but to take it away is unacceptable, and to pull this with the rest of the OS will make it extremely cumbersome to use.

 

At least Macs now support Windows, so there's an escape route.

post #43 of 70
Over the past several months, I've been looking for ways to improve the sound of my computer-based music system, and I found that that iTunes delivers a mediocre sound (at best). While I like the media management iTunes offers and the possibility to remotely play music using an iOS device, I've been regularly using another program, Decibel, to listen to music (it doesn't play anything but music). But it's a kludgy solution, and I've been keeping my eyes open for alternatives.

A media player that is popular among Windows users, especially those looking for superior sound quality, is JRiver. The company is bringing out a native Mac version, and I'm pretty excited about it:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.phptopic=75129.msg509124#msg509124

I don't know how convenient it will be, especially for synching music between computers and iOS devices via iCloud. But I thought I'd mention it for folks who might be looking to explore possibilities if, when iTunes 11 is released, it's gone in a direction they don't like.

By the way, I'm excited to see if the new iTunes meets my needs and if the sound is what I'm looking for. Like I said, I actually like iTunes but just want better sound quality.

Cheers.
post #44 of 70
I want to know if iTunes 11 will have a less craptastic interface for loading books onto iDevices (especially the forthcoming iPad Mini, if the focus is on reading).

Thumbnail view only; inside a mini scrolling window inside ANOTHER scrolling window; no way to organize books by moving stuff between collections.

And I don't know if it's an iOS 6 thing or what, but if I import a book outside of iTunes (like, say, from Dropbox) and then sync, iTunes copies the book into iTunes but then marks it as "do not sync", so it ends up disappearing from the iPad. That needs to stop.
post #45 of 70
I can't imagine anyone who has used the iPad's music or video app for more than a few seconds is looking forward to the new iTunes. They are probably the worst pieces of software Apple has ever written.
post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

There is absolutely no need for apps to be stored on the Mac, and no need to arrange them from the Mac. iTunes should only be for music, video, etc... The Mac App Store could have a section for mobile apps for people who want to absolutely buy from there.

 

When you have 100, or 200, or 500 apps, there's no need to store them on a computer? For when you upgrade, fix your phone or reinstall? That's asinine.

post #47 of 70
Quote:

Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

My interest is in the individual track. 

 

So Apple should listen to YOU about what is the 'right' way to do and forget about all the folks that do care about albums etc. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #48 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

 

When you have 100, or 200, or 500 apps, there's no need to store them on a computer? For when you upgrade, fix your phone or reinstall? That's asinine.

 

You can store them in iCloud instead. There's no reason an iDevice ever needs to connect to a computer at all.

 

Personally I find it easier to arrange the icons in iTunes and then sync them to the phone, but it wouldn't kill me if I had to do it on the phone itself.

post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The great thing about the original iPhone was that, although it was OSX under the hood, it didn't try to mimic desktop paradigms. I'm sure that it was a conscious decision on Apple's part so why try to mimic mobile paradigms on the desktop now?
I agree with charlituna though, the App Store should be a separate app.

 

You asked the question and really it is a reaction to my idea to an extent so I'll tell you my logic for separating them. Bloat. Why should I have to open iTunes and have it scan and 'check' my library list to go to the store to preorder an album or a show etc. Why should I have to open iTunes to sync my iPhone. And when something goes south and my library file gets corrupted why put me through the annoyance of having to drag all the podcast files I have from various sources into iTunes which will misread them as music/movies so now I have to relabel them. Then the tv shows I ripped off my dvd collection so I can travel with them, which will come in as movies so those have to be relabeled. Then my old audiobooks and switch them off music. THEN I can load my movies, then my music etc. If they are separate libraries then when my audio library file gets corrupted I only have to deal with two groups. Audiobooks and music. way less annoying. Plus divided apps would potentially use much less RAM etc. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So Apple should listen to YOU about what is the 'right' way to do and forget about all the folks that do care about albums etc. 

 

Geez Mr. Thefish, I don't know why you would think that by stating my own preference I am automatically denigrating any alternative and demanding that the interface work the way I want it to and exclude options for alternative layouts and workflows. I'm not.

 

Feel free to pick a fight if that's the kind of mood you're in today, but I'm afraid I'm not so you're gonna have to find someone else to poke with a stick.

post #51 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by JElmore49 View Post

no way to organize books by moving stuff between collections.

 

I'll give you on that. Or what about the lack of sorting via built in metadata. In the iOS 6 Music App I can look at my music by Artist, Title, Genre, Album. But with books it's only by 'playlist'. The data is there presumably but I can't use it, just see it. But I should be able to. I should be able to sort by any of the data, even perhaps including series titles and numbers (ie the album and track number parallel from music). Perhaps even stack sorts within the app. So I can sort by author, then series, then series order and for non series titles, by year of publication. Or by Genre, then author etc. 

 

I don't get folks wanting to read books on their computer, to me it is the most uncomfortable way of doing things. But I do get the notion of organizing collections, syncing, pulling off notes to copy into a paper you are writing or to print out as study sheets or even flip cards. And for that stuff I support the notion of an iBooks for the Mac app. I also support the notion of a "newsstand" for the mac app if only to allow us to download the data files for our magazines. Yes I know you can redownload them blah blah. But sometimes I'm in a place with a crap wifi connection and being able to just sync them off my computer is loads faster so I wish I had the option. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

You can store them in iCloud instead. 

 

Apps, like purchased ibooks, movies, music etc are NOT stored in iCloud. All that is stored, if you choose to use the iCloud backup feature, is a list of what is on the device, the apple id used to get it, and in the case of apps and books, how they are organized. That list is used to download the items from the appropriate store. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #53 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTSart View Post

I can't imagine anyone who has used the iPad's music or video app for more than a few seconds is looking forward to the new iTunes. They are probably the worst pieces of software Apple has ever written.

 

I often use the video app several times a day. it's neither here or there for me. Works just fine. It would be nice if the 'view all episodes' feature in each tv shows listing was expanded so I could see all my purchases (of all kinds) and direct download but I dont do that too much so it isn't a huge deal. 

 

My bigger issue on that front is with the store itself. Things like how we don't get language tracks or CC/Visual tracks in all items and when visual tracks do exist they are sold as their own version. We don't have Extras on all movies and they don't work on the Apple TV/iOS. Delays in release timings especially for tv shows (season two has started on some broadcast shows and season one still isn't in the store), pricing (I think they should drop the SD only and drop the triple to that price with a cap of 3.99 for cable shows) and so on. To me those are the things that need to be fixed not the viewer app. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #54 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post

As boring as it is, a giant library needs text lists in some form or another to remain usable..

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why?

 

"Needs text lists" is probably too strong a statement, but I would posit that text lists are much more practical than icons in some ways and at least preferable for certain tasks.

 

It comes down to the ability to navigate quickly. Icons take up a lot more screen space than a line of text, and don't display nearly as much information. Finding the name of the song Matchbox 20 did in 1999 is much quicker and easier with a text list than with icons. Text lists require MUCH less scrolling and reduce the need to use the search field, which while wonderful and useful, is slower and more cumbersome than quickly finding what you need with just a few keystrokes in a column.

 

After living with both methods for years now, one machine under my control set up with text views, another under someone else's control set up with Icon views, I can say with certainty that I am able to navigate the text view much more quickly and easily. YMMV.

post #55 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Apps, like purchased ibooks, movies, music etc are NOT stored in iCloud. All that is stored, if you choose to use the iCloud backup feature, is a list of what is on the device, the apple id used to get it, and in the case of apps and books, how they are organized. That list is used to download the items from the appropriate store. 

 

Oh. I didn't know that, thanks!

 

The media files ARE still available "over the air" though, aren't they? If I buy a song with one device it's available for download on any device registered to that account, right? Same with a movie or book?

post #56 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

You can store them in iCloud instead. There's no reason an iDevice ever needs to connect to a computer at all.

 

Personally I find it easier to arrange the icons in iTunes and then sync them to the phone, but it wouldn't kill me if I had to do it on the phone itself.

 

I prefer storing apps on my computer because I can keep an older version of the app. I do not have an iPad 3 so I not want a larger app for retina support. I also have older iDevice that won't run some new apps.

post #57 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

 

When you have 100, or 200, or 500 apps, there's no need to store them on a computer? For when you upgrade, fix your phone or reinstall? That's asinine.

 

You can store them in iCloud instead. There's no reason an iDevice ever needs to connect to a computer at all.

 

Personally I find it easier to arrange the icons in iTunes and then sync them to the phone, but it wouldn't kill me if I had to do it on the phone itself.

 



Are you kidding me? You have a 64GB device (or two, as I have) and you want to sync them/restore them/upgrade them, over WiFi, using your ISP data and bandwidth every time you do it?

post #58 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

I was basing my observations on the way I see my friends, family and co-workers using it. I don't know anyone for whom albums are a priority anymore. That doesn't mean they NEVER buy an album, just that it's the exception rather than the rule. It even seems like artists have, for the most part, ditched the "cohesive and linear album" concept. Again, there are obviously exceptions, but it doesn't seem to be the predominant delivery method anymore. The times, etc.

 

I do not begrudge you having the ability to manage your library by albums. In fact, I think the ability to sort according to just about any criterion like we can now is great. I just don't want to be FORCED into an album paradigm just so Apple can dumb down the Mac experience to more closely mirror iOS.

Basically you are someone that has no appreciation for music, or appreciate an artist's body of work.  Neither do your friends, family, or co-workers.  Apparently, you don't like anyone that appreciates music.  You think everyone buys a song or two from an artist, so iTunes should cater to your needs only.  Can you name any artists that only release a song or two for a career, because you believe that musicians ditched the "cohesive and linear album" concept?  Are you that ignorant that you think the iTunes Store only caters to singles?  They sell complete albums.  People that appreciate music will buy the complete album from their favorite artists.  They don't buy one track.  It is terribly sad that you think "your generation" only wants to hear a song or two from an artist, and albums don't exist in your mind because you can't appreciate the artist's complete body of work.  Maybe you should buy an album and discover that you like more than one song.  Most people that I know that enjoy music have complete albums in their iTunes libraries, and many still buy CDs because the CD will always sound better than the compressed iTunes file.

post #59 of 70
I don't see much of a difference
post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Basically you are someone that has no appreciation for music, or appreciate an artist's body of work.  Neither do your friends, family, or co-workers.  Apparently, you don't like anyone that appreciates music.  You think everyone buys a song or two from an artist, so iTunes should cater to your needs only.  Can you name any artists that only release a song or two for a career, because you believe that musicians ditched the "cohesive and linear album" concept?  Are you that ignorant that you think the iTunes Store only caters to singles?  They sell complete albums.  People that appreciate music will buy the complete album from their favorite artists.  They don't buy one track.  It is terribly sad that you think "your generation" only wants to hear a song or two from an artist, and albums don't exist in your mind because you can't appreciate the artist's complete body of work.  Maybe you should buy an album and discover that you like more than one song.  Most people that I know that enjoy music have complete albums in their iTunes libraries, and many still buy CDs because the CD will always sound better than the compressed iTunes file.

 

Maybe you should get a clue about who I am before you presume to address me in such a rude and insulting way. You know nothing of my experience, my peer group or my age yet you presume to make judgements about each of them.

 

You will also note in the very post to which you replied that I explicitly stated my hope that album-centric library management REMAINS an integral part of the iTunes experience, and simply expressed my hope that it not be forced on those who prefer a different approach.

 

Read all the way through before allowing your knee to jerk, please.

post #61 of 70

I'm really not following the whole touch-friendly concept creep of Apple's decidedly non-touch desktop OS. Even assuming one is only using the Magic Trackpad, the sidebar seems a more efficient operation, scrolling more than tapping. iTunes 11 looks like it will at least triple the amount of clicking required for those of us with large music collections. How about allowing users to hide the sidebar, as with Finder? This illogical push towards iOS convergence does echo Forstall's Jobs-like tenacity, for better or worse. 

People who complain about Apple's relentless push towards their latest vision always seemed silly to me, but now I understand. When iTunes 11 is released, I will be the first one checking for a regressive Terminal command.

 

elroth View Post

But there's a lot of music that only makes sense in albums, and those of us who are album-centric (there are a lot of us) should have that option as well. Is that so terrible? Or do you think the world should be run just for your tastes?

charlituna View Post

So Apple should listen to YOU about what is the 'right' way to do and forget about all the folks that do care about albums etc. 

iTunes already has an album-as-thumbnail view. It's accessed by the short row of buttons next to the search field. But iTunes 11 removes other view options by eliminating the row. And that's terrible.

 

charlituna View Post

Apps, like purchased ibooks, movies, music etc are NOT stored in iCloud. All that is stored, if you choose to use the iCloud backup feature, is a list of what is on the device, the apple id used to get it, and in the case of apps and books, how they are organized. That list is used to download the items from the appropriate store. 

From the user's perspective, that is an irrelevant detail. Tap download, receive file. It doesn't matter which of Apple's servers store what you want.

 

hillstones View Post

Basically you are someone that has no appreciation for music, or appreciate an artist's body of work. [...] and many still buy CDs because the CD will always sound better than the compressed iTunes file.

That's quite a long-winded axe to grind; I'm amazed the handle hasn't broken off.

 

Any piece of music in the iTunes store can, at the discretion of its creator, be sold as album-only. At no point in the iTunes store's history has that option been used as the majority. I'd say that's indicative of the single-purchase business model being successful.

 

As for iTunes audio quality, the store's current format and bitrate (256kbps AAC) is absolutely on par with CD audio in double-blinds. Apple also offers guidelines for content producers to optimize mastering for iTunes, including the discouragement of dynamic range compression. In addition, they now request the original uncompressed digital master files, so that when the store updates to a new compressed spec, they are converting from the best possible source files.

 

I don't expect you to accept any of these facts, hillstones, with your "get off my lawn" approach to the subject. But for everyone else, hey, we learned something.

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post #62 of 70

I want Sound Jam back!

post #63 of 70
I dunno this just looks scary. I use playlists to organize a massive music library, and it looks like playlists are being shuffled out the door. And what's with this emphasis on albums? When you can shuffle everything, who cares what album a song is from any more? Yet this interface looks very album-centric.

Maybe they're moving to people who own a few dozen songs, leaving we power users out in the dust... Guess we'll find out when it's officially released.
post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post

I dunno this just looks scary. I use playlists to organize a massive music library, and it looks like playlists are being shuffled out the door. And what's with this emphasis on albums? When you can shuffle everything, who cares what album a song is from any more? Yet this interface looks very album-centric.
Maybe they're moving to people who own a few dozen songs, leaving we power users out in the dust... Guess we'll find out when it's officially released.

 

It looks album centric because you're only looking at the album section. 

 

And rather than being "shuffled out the door," there is prominent attention given to playlists. 

post #65 of 70
One thing they're ignoring (and it has nothing to do with the interface)%u2026 what about all those who have libraries larger than 25,000? At 28,000 , I'd be happy to pay a yearly premium, but it's not even available.
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post #66 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I really think this should be invisible, like their hardware notification lights.



Standard recessed-looking Apple logo in the center, slightly lighter, no differentiation from the surrounding bar. When information is there, have it appear. When not, not. We don't need a big box up top to show that. 

You're years behind the curve.

Minimalism was Apple before iTunes became its entry point to maximalism. Go back and study the evolution photos, and then stop thinking different. Think Wal-Mart.
post #67 of 70
Originally Posted by v1m View Post
You're years behind the curve.
Minimalism was Apple before iTunes became its entry point to maximalism. Go back and study the evolution photos, and then stop thinking different. Think Wal-Mart.

 

No.

Originally Posted by helia

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I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #68 of 70

Any ideas on when iTunes 11 will be released? I was hoping it would get released into the wild today but it seems it was left out of the keynote today.

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post #69 of 70

One day to go.. then it's november.

Do you think they're still up for an october release?

Still says "Coming in october"

http://www.apple.com/itunes/new-itunes/

post #70 of 70

The've changed it to November now.

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