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2014 Mac mini Wishlist - Page 27

post #1041 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


It could be a sign it'll be delayed and people can still buy the current Thunderbolt display for the Mac Pro. I don't see Apple going back to $3000+ displays, the market is just too small for it. Dell is bringing their sub-$1000 28" out early next year - if it's just a TN panel, I'm not sure what market it's aimed at but if it's MVA rather than IPS or IGZO, it'll still be pretty competitive.


It's not just that. There's nothing interesting for Apple to add there. Those are aimed at specialty markets that are better served by the companies that are already entrenched. The thunderbolt display's design seems aimed at being an attractive addition to a notebook. They sell a lot of notebooks. It allows those individuals to have one cable hookup to storage and a large display while at their desks. In that regard it's purpose and hardware budgeting is different than the aforementioned $3000 displays. There aren't as many in that range now anyway. You can get a really nice NEC 27" for under $1000 at this point + whatever they charge for spectraview and the accompanying colorimeter now. I figure the Sharp display is a case of something that can be shipped today. When it's cheap enough to ship a 4K imac, we'll definitely see a thunderbolt display. It does occur to me that the imac seems to still use the original thunderbolt. Only the rmbp and mac pro are listed as thunderbolt 2 on the apple site.

post #1042 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

It does occur to me that the imac seems to still use the original thunderbolt. Only the rmbp and mac pro are listed as thunderbolt 2 on the apple site.

 

Yep. An update to the iMac seems imminent after the New Year.

 

With people wondering how USB 3.1 vs Thunderbolt is going to shake out, Apple really needs to ensure that TB2 gets solid support from all lines.

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post #1043 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

 

Yep. An update to the iMac seems imminent after the New Year.

 

With people wondering how USB 3.1 vs Thunderbolt is going to shake out, Apple really needs to ensure that TB2 gets solid support from all lines.


I would agree on this partly because they don't want to limit the available pool of hardware that can fully leverage future peripheral devices. I suspect part of the reason the thunderbolt display wasn't updated was due to costs and desired margins. It's possible that the imac facelift was more costly than they anticipated. I didn't expect them to break the trend of uniformity for this many months. My initial prediction was by June, but I usually look predominantly at past behavior to avoid digging through every rumor. Lately I haven't been very accurate due to this.

post #1044 of 1392
It might be cheaper to make a larger panel if they are having problems achieving the high pitch densities. Just a thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Dell has a 24".  They also have a 28" that is cheaper for whatever reason. It's probably a lower panel grade, B grade, or something of that sort. I think the 24" is around $1500. I like 24" displays. When I used a 3:4 display, it was 21", which is basically the same height as a 24" 16:10. If NEC comes out with one, I'll probably buy it at some point. They did update some of their higher end displays to LED backlighting. That actually took off on the low end initially, as while it has advantages, the color reproduction was initially inferior. It also took some time for colorimeters to catch up.
post #1045 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Yep. An update to the iMac seems imminent after the New Year.
That would be pushing things pretty hard.
Quote:
With people wondering how USB 3.1 vs Thunderbolt is going to shake out, Apple really needs to ensure that TB2 gets solid support from all lines.

I'm not sure why people continue to believe that anything will shake out with respect to USB and TB. The differences between the ports is stark, more so the markets they target are entirely different. I don't see Apple having any problems at all with supporting the newer USB standards to some degree.

The other half of the equation is the continued implosion of the Windows PC market. The market isn't comparable to what it was even three years ago. Interests have changed and frankly a high performance USB port won't mean much, nor be a driver for new products.
post #1046 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It might be cheaper to make a larger panel if they are having problems achieving the high pitch densities. Just a thought.


Note the 32" is still much more costly. It may be of a completely different level of quality, but you have expensive 32", cheaper 24", and cheapest 28" from the same brand. That makes little sense to me. I only use my current one part of the time, so it can take 2 more years or so. At that point 4K should be stable and sensible in price.

post #1047 of 1392
Thread Starter 
No silent mini update which is unfortunate but hopefully we'll see something in 2014.
post #1048 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

No silent mini update which is unfortunate but hopefully we'll see something in 2014.

Very unfortunate! I feel your pain!

I'm thinking about a platform right now to run Linux on and the Mini in many ways is a good platform for that. However I'm not willing to forgo the improvements that Haswell GPU offers. I may have to go with a generic motherboard and box if something doesn't happen soon.

This doesn't even include my need for a new Mac OS machine. Which again needs to be Haswell based to get a better GPU.
post #1049 of 1392

I wanted to buy a Mini to upgrade my parents' setup this Christmas. That plan got scratched this morning.

 

Dyson may get the money instead.

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post #1050 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I wanted to buy a Mini to upgrade my parents' setup this Christmas. That plan got scratched this morning.

Dyson may get the money instead.

Dyson makes computers?

Just kidding. The current Mini is quickly becoming a very bad value with the advent of much better APU type chips. So I don't blame you for looking at a Dyson. You do have a few shopping days to go though.
post #1051 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Dyson makes computers?

 

You saw the new mac pro right? Who do you think makes that?

post #1052 of 1392

Maybe in the latter part of January a new Mac Mini might arrive.

post #1053 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


You do have a few shopping days to go though.

 

Yeah, but Apple's not introducing a Mini update this close to Christmas. Simultaneous with the Pro would have been the only real option.

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post #1054 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

You saw the new mac pro right? Who do you think makes that?

Dyson makes trash cans?


Mind you I'm sitting here with envy for anybody with a new Mac Pro.
post #1055 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Maybe in the latter part of January a new Mac Mini might arrive.

This is very possible and is one reason I think the current model is dead. If they where to just bump the processor it could have been done already and this be ready for holiday sales. They didn't do this so I suspect that the machine will morph into something else. January would be the time for new product introductions traditionally.
post #1056 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Yeah, but Apple's not introducing a Mini update this close to Christmas. Simultaneous with the Pro would have been the only real option.

You are probably right! Still this highlights the state of the machine, no update before Christmas sales kinda indicates that the machine is in suspended animation if you will. It isn't like Intel hasn't had the chips for ages now.
post #1057 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


You are probably right! Still this highlights the state of the machine, no update before Christmas sales kinda indicates that the machine is in suspended animation if you will. It isn't like Intel hasn't had the chips for ages now.

 

Just posted about this in the Pro thread: The Mini is now the only real rackable choice for OS X server.

 

Maybe this is part of the redesign? Removing the internal power supply would make it smaller (an Apple favourite), and more rack friendly.

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post #1058 of 1392
Thread Starter 
I'm now even more hungry for a mini for 2014 or whatever they replace it with if they replace it. Right now after some thought, I can do without it because I need clothes more. Looking to pick up some hooded sweatshirts and a Carhartt jacket among other things.
post #1059 of 1392

Blah no love for dyson :(.  Look at the resemblance.

 


The canister is just a different shade and plastic rather than metal.

post #1060 of 1392
Somebody with the handle "winter" should be able to go commando.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

I'm now even more hungry for a mini for 2014 or whatever they replace it with if they replace it. Right now after some thought, I can do without it because I need clothes more.
You sound conflicted.
Quote:
Looking to pick up some hooded sweatshirts and a Carhartt jacket among other things.
post #1061 of 1392

Hopefully we both are right on this.

post #1062 of 1392
Thread Starter 
I like the cold weather because I can bundle up and because others bundle up also. I hate flip-flops.

Anyway, back to the mini talk.
post #1063 of 1392
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Somebody with the handle "winter" should be able to go commando.

 

I run shorts and a t-shirt myself until it hits the 20s. Then I need gloves and earmuffs.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #1064 of 1392

Clothes are a more essential than computers.This is more logical thinking to think what you are going to wear than same dumb mac mini.

post #1065 of 1392
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post
Clothes are a more essential than computers.This is more logical thinking to think what you are going to wear than same dumb mac mini.

 

What can I say; I don’t get cold. :lol:

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #1066 of 1392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Clothes are a more essential than computers.This is more logical thinking to think what you are going to wear than same dumb mac mini.

For once, marv and I will agree. The world must be ending.

Iris would have been enough for me and Iris Pro would have been even better. Coming up in 2014, I'll see what happens. The bottom line is that I don't want a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro, and the iMac is too big for my liking.

I actually would take a Mac Pro with a 4K display though. It's way out of my budget right now though.
post #1067 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Clothes are a more essential than computers.
That is highly debatable. For a good part of the year you don't really need cloths. For the times that you do any rag will do.
Quote:

This is more logical thinking to think what you are going to wear than same dumb mac mini.

Nothing logical about it, a person wears cloths because of the weather or societies norms. If you spend time dwellings on what you wear that is vanity coming through. Nothing logical at all about vanity.

On the other hand choosing the proper computer takes much in the way of logical thinking.
post #1068 of 1392
Thread Starter 
I like to walk on the boardwalk (I live in NJ) and it gets colder near the ocean and my Raiders jacket is not really suitable for long walks in cold weather. I need something that keeps me warm.

I had waited for a long time for a new Mac mini and Apple didn't deliver and now my motivation has kind of evaporated. The jacket I want is about $85. A new Mac mini would be around $600 or more. The choice is easy.
post #1069 of 1392

That is obvious go for the jacket naturally and keep yourself warm especially in the winter.

post #1070 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The current Mini is quickly becoming a very bad value with the advent of much better APU type chips.

 

Actually the mini is still an exceptional value in the Apple line up.  $899 buys you a quad core i7 faster than the lower end MBP.

 

http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

 

Granted that a Haswell mini would be an even more exceptional value but that's probably why it doesn't exist.  While the quad i7 iMac is much faster it also weighs in at $1699.  $700 is a lot to pay for a GPU.

 

It's a shame that Intel has killed external GPU thunderbolt solutions by not certifying any.

post #1071 of 1392

Any Mac Mini is a steal for the money.

post #1072 of 1392
I had a real great response typed up on my iPad and then Safari crashed. That happens a lot on AppleInsider for some reason. Hopefully Huddler and Apple are working this out as I've done well on most other sites with y iPad.

In any event I will try to repeat things again as I'm at my Mac. My point with the Mini is that its value has been significantly impacted due to the lack of a Haswell solution in the machine. Not for the CPU improvements which are minor and at times regressions but rather because of the GPU. Depending upon which Haswell you get, the GPU is improved significantly and this makes the current Mini a poor value compared to what it could be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Actually the mini is still an exceptional value in the Apple line up.  $899 buys you a quad core i7 faster than the lower end MBP.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks
GeekBench has its place but I'm not convinced it is of much use for modern software. For example anything OpenCL accelerated on Haswell is showing very good results. Further Haswells vastly improved 3D performance means that applications like 3D CAD are far more serviceable on Haswell than prior Intel solutions.

Combine this with the fact that has well has been out in various forms for months now and you can see why I question the machines value. This especially in the high end configurations which could be vastly improved via a Haswell upgrade.
Quote:
Granted that a Haswell mini would be an even more exceptional value but that's probably why it doesn't exist.  While the quad i7 iMac is much faster it also weighs in at $1699.  $700 is a lot to pay for a GPU.
Actually $1699 is a lot to pay for an iMac if you really don't want an all in one.
Quote:
It's a shame that Intel has killed external GPU thunderbolt solutions by not certifying any.
Actually I have just the opposite opinion. By not certifying any solutions Intel frees the market from idiots complaining about poor performance over TB. Of course the performance results would be highly variable but you would have a hard time explaining that to some midnight gamer who believes he is a technical hotshot.

Beyond that, everything I know about electronics and computers says to me the the GPU will only get closer to the CPU. Future performance increases in low cost machines will come from highly integrated chips feed with real fast RAM arrays. The GPU will need to be not only physically close to the CPU it needs to be logically close. We are already seeing significant payoffs in this regard and we have yet to see the Heterogeneous systems that the likes of AMD have been harping about for years now. Apple with its Intel Haswell based systems is probably the closest any manufacture has come to extensive use of an "APU" in a heterogeneous type system yet has a ways to go. It won't take much in the way of future enhancements to discount the need for a discreet GPU for many users. So if Intel has been a little over bearing with regards to TB and GPU's I think they are on the right path. In a year or two the demand won't be there and in the mean time they eliminate the negativity that would most certainly come with under performing GPU over TB solutions.

By the way, the Mini could use TB2 also. For server uses that would make for a nice upgrade to the platform.

*****************************
This drag on the arrival of a Haswell bumped Mini has me believing that we will see a new platform early in 2014. Everything I've seen indicates terrible sales so Apple might try to breath new life into the machine with a new chassis and other technologies.
Edited by wizard69 - 12/26/13 at 12:22pm
post #1073 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Any Mac Mini is a steal for the money.

Maybe the lowest end model but better and best suck right now. You spend a lot of money to get very little in real world performance, no Haswell GPU and frankly the machine needs TB2 to better leverage the platform for some of the things it does well. Here I'm thinking server duty which one model supposedly supports.

It really is a matter of perspective, Haswell does almost nothing for the CPU but that really isn't important to many of us. If Haswell was in a Mini right now it would be a far more relevant machine.
post #1074 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Maybe the lowest end model but better and best suck right now. You spend a lot of money to get very little in real world performance, no Haswell GPU and frankly the machine needs TB2 to better leverage the platform for some of the things it does well. Here I'm thinking server duty which one model supposedly supports.

It really is a matter of perspective, Haswell does almost nothing for the CPU but that really isn't important to many of us. If Haswell was in a Mini right now it would be a far more relevant machine.

I'm waiting until the Haswell Mac Mini comes out to replace my aging Mac Pro.  To be honest with you, I'm hoping that there'll be a new form factor to the Mac Mini taking it closer to the shape of the new AirPort Extreme.  I used to own a G4 Cube and while most disliked them, I loved mine and used it until it died.  While it wouldn't be the same as the Cube, it would be reminiscent of it in my opinion.  We might not get a new form factor, but TB2 and Haswell are what I'm looking for in the next Mac Mini.  It'd be great if someone at Apple actually cared about the Mac Mini.

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post #1075 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

It'd be great if someone at Apple actually cared about the Mac Mini.

It's consumers that don't care about it. They don't sell well enough. I actually think consumers aren't informed well enough about the Mac Mini. People who are unfamiliar with computers can't possibly see a Mini compared to a standard PC box and assume the small box can replace the larger one when it's 1/20th the size and yet in many cases the Mini will be faster. They could do with having a poster that shows that the Mini can replace their old plastic towers.



It's also the bundle prices. The high volume market is way down at the $500 mark for an entire bundle. Apple doesn't reach that with just the box. Add Apple's kb/mouse and even a 3rd party display and you're somewhere around $800.

HP sold 14.6m PCs (including laptops) q4 2012 with revenue of $7.9b so their average selling price is $540.
Lenovo sold 13.9m with revenue of $7.5b so their asp is $540.
Dell sold 9.2m with revenue of $8.6b so their asp is better at $935.

These are averages so the majority of sales are below these prices. Apple's average is closer to $1300.

Adding Haswell to the Mini won't improve sales on its own. Consumers need to be aware of what the Mini is and have bundles to setup an entire computer system affordably.

Desktops are still a fairly big market overall but the market is shrinking now.
post #1076 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I actually think consumers aren't informed well enough about the Mac Mini.

 

Probably because when you walk into an Apple Store, you need a magnifying glass to find the section devoted to the Mini.

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post #1077 of 1392
Thread Starter 
I would still have a commercial with a mini and an Apple display. Not sure how I would make it interesting but I would figure out a way.
post #1078 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

GeekBench has its place but I'm not convinced it is of much use for modern software. For example anything OpenCL accelerated on Haswell is showing very good results. Further Haswells vastly improved 3D performance means that applications like 3D CAD are far more serviceable on Haswell than prior Intel solutions.

 

OpenCL's importance may or may not increase over time but currently all older non-Haswell macs with Intel GPUs lack OpenCL support from the GPU.  Yes, obviously folks that need 3D performance will like having Haswell.  On the other hand all owners of the current Mini do not currently need this or they'd have bought an iMac out of necessity.

 

Quote:
Actually $1699 is a lot to pay for an iMac if you really don't want an all in one.

 

The point is that Apple manages its lineup and upsell very carefully.  There is no reason that the current Mini could not have a discrete GPU BTO option.

 

Quote:
Actually I have just the opposite opinion. By not certifying any solutions Intel frees the market from idiots complaining about poor performance over TB. Of course the performance results would be highly variable but you would have a hard time explaining that to some midnight gamer who believes he is a technical hotshot.

 

GPU performance over TB is pretty decent in comparison to the IGP.

 

http://www.geek.com/apple/improve-macbook-air-graphics-7x-using-a-diy-thunderbolt-external-gpu-1563835/

 

I'll take 5-7x performance over Haswell IGP if it wasn't such a hack at the moment.

post #1079 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

I would still have a commercial with a mini and an Apple display. Not sure how I would make it interesting but I would figure out a way.

That is a tuff one. I honestly think that Apples sees the Mini as a machine for third party sellers to market. I left with the impression that they don't even want to bother with it in their stores.
post #1080 of 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

OpenCL's importance may or may not increase over time but currently all older non-Haswell macs with Intel GPUs lack OpenCL support from the GPU.  Yes, obviously folks that need 3D performance will like having Haswell.  On the other hand all owners of the current Mini do not currently need this or they'd have bought an iMac out of necessity.
I'm having trouble finding documentation but I believe that Mavericks brought OpenCL support to older Intel chips. At least Ivy Bridge. Frankly Apple hasn't been real good with documentation of late. Intel hardware has been OpenCL capable for some time even if that feature was never brought to Mac OS.

As for current owners that makes little sense, they already have a machine. We are talking about a new machine here. The idea is a that Apple needs a far more capable machine to draw users that are beyond an entry level machine. A Mini as an entry level machine is fine and would be so even with Ivy Bridge for the next few months. What isn't fine is paying big bucks for the up sell variants of the Mini and getting very little in return especially the lack of the GPUs Haswell has to offer.
Quote:

The point is that Apple manages its lineup and upsell very carefully.  There is no reason that the current Mini could not have a discrete GPU BTO option.
My point is I will never buy Apples all in one if it continues its current engineering approach of being non serviceable. Frankly many corporations won't consider the iMac either for a variety of reasons. Apple can believe they are managing their up sell well but in reality they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
Quote:
Who really cares?
Quote:

I'll take 5-7x performance over Haswell IGP if it wasn't such a hack at the moment.
If you need to add such nonsense to the AIR you bought the wrong laptop.

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Edited by wizard69 - 1/1/14 at 11:53am
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