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2014 Mac mini Wishlist - Page 31

post #1201 of 1506
I'd love to see the Haswell EX architecture transferred to a processor suitable for the Mac Pro. With the 5 core complexes that would make for a nice 15 core machine. Especially with the vastly improved support infrastructure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Haswell-EP is supposed to go to 14-cores this year then 18-cores in 2015:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20131220211018_Intel_Readies_18_Core_Xeon_Broadwell_EP_Microprocessors_for_Launch_in_2015_Report.html

With DDR4, the next Mac Pro either late 2014 or early 2015 will support up to 128GB RAM and should have 14-core at the top-end. A 6-core entry model makes sense to distinguish it from consumer processors - maybe Broadwell can bring a mainstream rather than enthusiast 6-core i7 but I doubt Haswell refresh will.
post #1202 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The only other gating factor is TB2, I can see where I really would want this in the future. In this regards I can't imagine that Apple went all in with TB2 without a licensing deal with Intel to use the technology in its own products. It would have been very short sighted of them to go without a license. The reality is that in a very short time, with the help of TB2, your iPhone / iPad will be able to transform into a desktop machine simply by plugging into a TB2 based monitor / dock.

That would just be swapping the notebook for an idevice attached in the case of the thunderbolt display. I'm sure that would have some appeal, although I still can't stand the lack of a file system. It can be compensated a bit using apps that can export to dropbox. I'm not aware of any that do to google docs, but I'm searching for a way to facilitate that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'd love to see the Haswell EX architecture transferred to a processor suitable for the Mac Pro. With the 5 core complexes that would make for a nice 15 core machine. Especially with the vastly improved support infrastructure.


I'm marginally surprised they're rumored to have a Haswell EX. Last cycle they skipped Sandy Bridge due to lack of a die shrink. E7s have merged to the same mechanical socket, but I don't think the pins are electrically compatible. According to marvin's link, the mac pro would have a natural 14 core candidate anyway. Why focus specifically on EX when EP will be that close?

post #1203 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

1smoking.gif
This is meaningless commentary on a product that hasn't even had time for software to achieve normal optimization. Not to mention that you need operating system support to fully leverage the capability. In a nut shell it is far too early to pass judgement on HSA via app testing. It will likely take a couple of years for everything to develop properly.

 

Your nuanced command of the English language is simply awe inspiring.  Lesser mortals might have thought that the phrases "The jury is out" and "It’s impossible to evaluate the long-term potential of HSA at this point" means the same thing as "it is far too early to pass judgement" but you evidently have teased out the impressive differences between those phrases.

 

Quote:
The point here though is that the reasoning behind HSA is very sound and the architecture melds well with Apples directions in operating system and library design. Even then I would never expect GPU acceleration to work for everything. GPU acceleration is about leveraging the strengths of the GPU when you can.

 

The point here is that HSA is unproven in the way that matters: shown to provide significant real world performance advantages.  

 

Quote:
The fact that Haswell implements a huge cache chip for Iris Pro is evidence that there is a bandwidth problem. Every bit of rational benchmarking on the net indicates clearly that more bandwidth is need for both Intel and AMDs processors.

 

The fact that Haswell implements a huge L4 cache is evidence that a 128MB cache chip was judged sufficient to address GPU memory bandwidth concerns in this generation and possibly the next one.

 

You have yet to provide any benchmarks, rational or otherwise.  That both Intel and AMD will increase bandwidth is pretty much a given.  That there is a current "bandwidth problem" isn't.

 

Quote:
Maybe a Mini built into a keyboard! Even in a more conventional design I can see Apple going this route.

 

1980 called and they'd like their computer design back.  A NUC or Mac Mini is sufficiently small and I prefer my keyboards light and not connected to a power line. Or any line for that matter.

 

Quote:
I disagree, the Mini in my mind is the machine most exposed to suffer from the success of the iPad.

 

It is simply bizarre that you think that powerful desktop machines used as servers and HTPCs are "most exposed to suffer from the success of the iPad".

 

Quote:
I hear this all the time and frankly I see it as total BS. The Mini brings many customers into the fold that might not otherwise consider a Mac. Each Mini sale is a potential future iMac, Mac Pro or laptop sale.

 

Only if the Mini is not so good as to make the iMac a so-so upgrade.  The cost deltas are huge.

 

It is amazing that in another post you can claim that Mini sales are dismal and in this post you can claim the Mini brings many customers into the fold.  In any case only Apple has the number on sales and possibly the data on whether sales go to new customers or existing Apple owners.

post #1204 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Actually I see that as damn good performance. Taken as a whole the chip offers a lot of features that will make it very compelling. Beyond that it is cores that makes or breaks servers not so much performance per core.

 

Given that the Atom has 8 cores and is relatively cheap the A1100 isn't compelling at all given that the C2750 is shipping now and the A1100 isn't.

 

And Google disagrees with that last sentence.  You can parallelize only so far before you reach negative returns so performance per core is still relevant.

 

Quote:
Not in the markets it will be competing in, which is the same markets Intel is trying to corner with the C2750.

 

It's not going to be facing the 2013 C2759 (Avoton) but late 2014 Denverton.  More importantly there's no issue with software needing to be rebuilt for ARM.

post #1205 of 1506

We've gotten through February without a Mac Mini being released.  Any thoughts on possible release dates?  The new Haswell chips were released last month.  

 

For gaming (and other high-performance) laptops, there are five new Core i7 processors, including one dual-core version, the $346 i7-4610M. The remaining ones are all quad cores, ranging from the 2.8GHz i7-4810MQ to the 3.1GHz i7-4940MX Extreme Edition, which is priced at a whopping $1,096. The i7-4860HQ only runs at 2.4GHz, but makes use of HD 5200 graphics, which would seem to justify its higher price than the 4610M.

Considering that we're only looking at laptop internals to be included in the Mac Mini, the two questions that need to be asked are, if the Mini is slated to use the tech that was released last month, what's the delay to release once included in the Mini?  The second question would be, does the inclusion of Haswell in the Mac Mini qualify to be included in "great things coming to the Mac" as stated by Cook?  

Does "great things" equal incremental update barely worthy of the word "refresh"?  The longer we wait, the more doubt I have in Apple to deliver.  

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post #1206 of 1506

Apple is a peculiar company to ponder about. You never know what they will come out with regarding the mac mini if it does comes out eventually.

post #1207 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post
 

The second question would be, does the inclusion of Haswell in the Mac Mini qualify to be included in "great things coming to the Mac" as stated by Cook? 

 

No.  Just doing Haswll is a spec bump and likely a silent update where one day it simply appears in the Apple Store.  Only if there is a significant redesign will they bother with any sort of event.  If it happens near another event it might or might not get a mention.

 

Quote:
 Does "great things" equal incremental update barely worthy of the word "refresh"?  The longer we wait, the more doubt I have in Apple to deliver. 

 

Concern troll much?  

 

The mini is a very minor product in Apple's lineup.  They could decide to simply not update at all until fall because they see too much overlap in product lines between the mini and low end iMac.  It'll be like the iPod Touch getting last year's processor.  If you don't need a GPU there's not that much gain in moving from Ivy to Haswell.  Or they could do a silent refresh sometime soon.

 

Either way, Apple has shown it can deliver just fine.  If there is any test at all it's when the next new kind of product will appear and what it will be.  Even with Jobs some of these fared poorly (like the iPod Hi-Fi).

post #1208 of 1506

 .


Edited by Brian Green - 2/28/14 at 3:44pm
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post #1209 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post
 

nht, "Concern troll"?!?!?!?  Have we degraded online to the point where we now have a list of "trolls" to slap labels on someone the second we disagree with their opinion?  This place used to stand for something, and certainly didn't denigrate posters.

 

You're worried about Apple's ability "to deliver" based on the fact that Apple has chosen not to update the mini when you wanted them to because you're still running a machine from 2007.

 

Yah, that's concern trolling beyond the usual "I wish Apple would make an xMac" grousing.

 

Quote:
The new kind of product that you speak of, if it's a watch, will fail to capture my attention.  I understand that I'm a significant minority in that I do actually wear a watch, and the watch is analog.  I'm not going to be buying an Apple watch when the one I have works just fine.  

 

Nobody but Apple knows what their next product is.  

 

As for your comment it is equivalent to:

 

The new kind of product that you speak of, if it's a phone, will fail to capture my attention.  I understand that I'm a significant minority in that I do actually have a phone, and the phone is for calling.  I'm not going to be buying an Apple phone when the one I have works just fine. 

 

 

I don't wear a watch and it would take one insanely great watch to get me to wear one again.  Apple is the most likely company to come out with an insanely great watch but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Quote:
As for potential other new category products, I'll evaluate them as they show up.  This thread isn't about those new products, however.  It's about the Mac Mini, and the OP's wish list for things to be included in a 2013 product model that never even bothered to show up. 

 

This comment was about you bitching about Cook's comment about great things coming to the mac and conflating that with a spec bump update for the mini.  Anyone not a concern troll wouldn't try to equate the lack of an update on the mini with Apple's ability to deliver new "great things" for the mac.

 

Quote:
As it stands, my statement, "The longer we wait, the more doubt I have in Apple to deliver." is not only appropriate to the entire year of 2013, but also includes the first two months of 2014 with zero indication that anything will see the light of day in the first half of the year.  Due to an insanely slow product update cycle (if one can reasonably even call it that) those looking to purchase a Mac Mini have every reason to be concerned.  It's the ONLY headless Mac available to those who aren't rich.  To an iMac user, this concern would be trivial because they aren't personally affected, as can also be said for the laptop crowd.  There's no concern by those people because their needs are actually being addressed by Apple.  One can not say the same for the Mac Mini customers out here.

 

As a Mac Mini customer I understand the concern but I have no doubt that Apple can deliver new great things for the Mac.  

 

No promises were made by anyone at Apple that the mini would get any love this year and more importantly, simply looking at what Apple has done in the past will indicate that they deliberately make sure the Mini is not as performant as the base iMac in some way.  A Core i7 Mini with Iris Pro would crush the base iMac.  That's highly unlikely to happen.

post #1210 of 1506
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post
nht, "Concern troll"?!?!?!?  Have we degraded online to the point

 

No, we as a species have always used adjectives and adverbs. This is no different.

 
where we now have a list of “trolls

 

We have a list for trolls, at least.

 

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, eats like a duck, rapes like a duck… 

 

…to slap labels on someone the second we disagree with their opinion?

 

That, certainly, shouldn’t be the case. But trolling isn’t a disagreement of opinion.

 
This place used to stand for something, and certainly didn't denigrate posters.

 

Then Apple got popular and the trolls came. Now we denigrate them.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #1211 of 1506
Thread Starter 
Since we're almost at the end of the first quarter of 2014, perhaps we should start a new thread. With it, I want it to be a pure Mac mini thread. I couldn't care less about the iMac since it is not yet forgotten about.
post #1212 of 1506
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
Since we're almost at the end of the first quarter of 2014, perhaps we should start a new thread. With it, I want it to be a pure Mac mini thread. I couldn't care less about the iMac since it is not yet forgotten about.

 

You could just ask Marvin to edit the title. :p

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #1213 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Since we're almost at the end of the first quarter of 2014, perhaps we should start a new thread. With it, I want it to be a pure Mac mini thread. I couldn't care less about the iMac since it is not yet forgotten about.

You could just ask Marvin to edit the title. 1tongue.gif

Yeah, I can rename it to '2014 Mac mini Wishlist' if preferred or maybe '2015 Mac mini Wishlist' to be on the safe side.
post #1214 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Yeah, I can rename it to '2014 Mac mini Wishlist' if preferred or maybe '2015 Mac mini Wishlist' to be on the safe side.

I think your earlier prediction may be right on this one. We may see a mini refresh at Haswell spec bump time along the rmbp line. They opted to use them the last two generations, so I don't think that is likely to change. Otherwise they probably would have refreshed the line by now.

post #1215 of 1506
This made me laugh! A sad laugh really because there may be truth in your statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Yeah, I can rename it to '2014 Mac mini Wishlist' if preferred or maybe '2015 Mac mini Wishlist' to be on the safe side.
post #1216 of 1506
Thread Starter 
I just hope it comes out before Apple announces the next version of OS X so we don't get an update to the 2012 Minis with that new version.
post #1217 of 1506

Hopefully this will come out by April.

post #1218 of 1506
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Hopefully this will come out by April.

Is anyone making an alternative? Didn't Samsung have a similar looking device?
post #1219 of 1506

Perhaps it is going away or changing shape.

When talking about the Mac line during the Oct. 2013 keynote. Tim Cook talks about the mac line shows all the macs, but if you notice the mac mini is not even shown!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDkTpV00A_Y#t=10m11s

 

post #1220 of 1506

Big deal. Have some patience and Apple might come out with a new mac mini soon.

post #1221 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdiddy View Post

Perhaps it is going away or changing shape.
When talking about the Mac line during the Oct. 2013 keynote. Tim Cook talks about the mac line shows all the macs, but if you notice the mac mini is not even shown!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDkTpV00A_Y#t=10m11s



Neither is the Mac Pro. Your point is what? That the Mac Pro isn't a Mac or that it too is going away?
post #1222 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdiddy View Post
 

Perhaps it is going away or changing shape.

When talking about the Mac line during the Oct. 2013 keynote. Tim Cook talks about the mac line shows all the macs, but if you notice the mac mini is not even shown!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDkTpV00A_Y#t=10m11s

 

 

The updated mac pro was unveiled at that point. They're just marketing whatever they want to market. Trying to read the tea leaves there is silly.

post #1223 of 1506

Maybe Cook has a big surprise for the consumer who wants the mac mini to have all the bells and whistles now.Never hurts in dreaming things you want in life.

post #1224 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Is anyone making an alternative? Didn't Samsung have a similar looking device?

Lonovo makes a nice compact desktop PC.
post #1225 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Maybe Cook has a big surprise for the consumer who wants the mac mini to have all the bells and whistles now.Never hurts in dreaming things you want in life.

True dreaming about things can lead to getting those things through innovation and creation. That however is a personal accomplishment, dreams won't drive Apple to build the machine you desire. With Apple it pays to be cautious because getting too wrapped up in the idea that they can deliver what you want will often lead to disappointment.
post #1226 of 1506

That is very true indeed.

post #1227 of 1506
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Lenovo makes a nice compact desktop PC.

Is it the ThinkCentre M93p Tiny Desktop? It seems pretty good. I can get up to 16 GB of memory and a 180 GB SSD SATA III.
post #1228 of 1506
I think so! It looks like the ones the IT departments I s buying now.

They perform ok for what they are used for at work. Note however that they are not running Iris graphics in the base models. I'm not even sure if Iris is available. Also doing SSDs on SATA is quickly becoming a mistake as SATA can't keep up with PCI Express based machines. That and 180 GB is simply not enough these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Is it the ThinkCentre M93p Tiny Desktop? It seems pretty good. I can get up to 16 GB of memory and a 180 GB SSD SATA III.

Edited by wizard69 - 3/5/14 at 4:18pm
post #1229 of 1506
Thread Starter 
See that's what sucks. I want something decent but I don't need something that's too powerful for my needs. Owning a Mac Pro for example would be awesome IF I could get all the use of it. I don't want to use a Mac Pro just for internet browsing and playing games.
post #1230 of 1506

I'm amazed that we're still waiting on a 2014 Mini update. While Macs are still integral to Apple, the casual buyer could be forgiven for wondering if Apple cares about a product it hasn't updated at all for 500 days, and which hasn't had a major design change since the optical was removed in 2011.

 

Hopefully, the wait implies a major upgrade, but if so I'm still surprised Apple is spending so much time on such a small part of the lineup.

I would have thought Apple would just keep the innards fairly updated, and then quickly move on to the other product lines.

 

The Windows side of things keeps getting more small PC options, while we're being left behind on this front.

Maybe Apple feels it's time to match Intel's NUC form factor and own the space, even if the potential profits are limited.

 

Considering that Dell just dropped a sub-$600 education laptop on the market today, maybe Apple just has its focus elsewhere.

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post #1231 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


With Apple it pays to be cautious because getting too wrapped up in the idea that they can deliver what you want will often lead to disappointment.

 

Can I print that up on some T-shirts?

post #1232 of 1506

Hopefully the mac mini will survive some how.Who really knows with Apple?

post #1233 of 1506
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Hopefully the mac mini will survive some how. Who really knows with Apple?

I mentioned this before in another way but have you ever had to wait so long for something you just sort of lose interest in it? That's kind of the way I feel. The biggest advantage I would expect on a new prospective mini would be the PCIe SSD followed by the graphics. Realistically, I am not sure how much of a speed jump it would be on the processor front from Sandy Bridge to Haswell. Maybe someone can answer that.

I would most likely buy a dual core Haswell with Iris graphics and not a quad core with Iris Pro. If they went across the board with HD 4600, the quad core may be within my price range though I don't know that for sure.
post #1234 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

I mentioned this before in another way but have you ever had to wait so long for something you just sort of lose interest in it? That's kind of the way I feel. The biggest advantage I would expect on a new prospective mini would be the PCIe SSD followed by the graphics. Realistically, I am not sure how much of a speed jump it would be on the processor front from Sandy Bridge to Haswell. Maybe someone can answer that.
CPU wise it isn't a huge leap at all, GPU wise it is a significant leap forward. The CPU does gain some improvements but it isn't really discussion worthy.
Quote:
I would most likely buy a dual core Haswell with Iris graphics and not a quad core with Iris Pro. If they went across the board with HD 4600, the quad core may be within my price range though I don't know that for sure.
If it ever ships. At this point there is no reason I can think of for it to not be shipping so I have to think Apple is up to something with a new model. I still have this idea that an ARM based machine is in the works to completely replace the Mini and target a slightly different market segment. The rumors of quad core ARM chips already in production would indicate that this is a possibility. After all Apple has nothing to introduce at the moment IOS device wise so why the production ramp. I could actually see them integrating this product into the Apple TV line. Sort of a combo PC/Media Server/Apple TV/Projector/Kitchen Sink machine.

Why would they do this? Well to go after their core customer base with a product that would be seen as providing an excellent value. The only question would be what sort of OS would it operate with. This would also free up Apple to offer a desktop machine in the $1200 to $1500 range for an entry machine. With ARM and a complete control of the SoC features, Apple could provide a whole bunch of functionality relatively cheaply.

The big problem would be if the device doesn't support Mac OS for many of us. The Mini represents Apples only affordable headless solution and if it gets canned for a machine that doesn't support Mac OS many of us would be very disappointed.

I only mention the Apple TV in this reply because it is due and heavily rumored to be in the running for a big make over. Further make over might not be the right term here as I see this as an additional AppleTV product and not a direct replacement for the current cheap unit.
post #1235 of 1506

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



If it ever ships. At this point there is no reason I can think of for it to not be shipping so I have to think Apple is up to something with a new model.

 

I'm actually with Marvin on this one. Intel will do their mid cycle bump. Apple will probably bump the macbook pros at that time and bump the mini while at it. Broadwell isn't showing up anytime soon. Winter is probably unhappy with the way games run on his current one, but I think it may be a couple more cycles before gaming is truly comfortable with integrated graphics. If the value of a mini drops slowly, it could be possible to resell the old machine with each cycle so as to keep up with recent games.

post #1236 of 1506
Thread Starter 
I don't game too much honestly except for MAME and I got Gauntlet Dark Legacy to run just fine and finally completed it.
post #1237 of 1506

Good idea Mac Mini thread.There is a site called 123 Mac Mini which is all about mac mini systems and other software they it uses.

post #1238 of 1506

Can you Hackintosh an Intel NUC? Or a Shuttle?

 

One would think that sub-$500 computers would be the right price for people willing to risk using unsupported PC configs.

 

I wonder if this revolution in small, cheap PCs played a role in Apple discontinuing retail boxed versions of the OS?

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post #1239 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Can you Hackintosh an Intel NUC? Or a Shuttle?

One would think that sub-$500 computers would be the right price for people willing to risk using unsupported PC configs.

I wonder if this revolution in small, cheap PCs played a role in Apple discontinuing retail boxed versions of the OS?

Nuc so-so. Shuttle so-so. Better to buy your own small case and components off the build lists.
post #1240 of 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Nuc so-so. Shuttle so-so. Better to buy your own small case and components off the build lists.

Or just buy a Mac if you want a Mac. Nucs are great for Linux if you want to embed a computer in another device. I'm actually shocked by the amount of compute power it is now possible to put into the palm of your hand. I mean completely functional devices here. Not to let on how old I am but one of my earlier computers was a Commodore Vic 20 which frankly sucked performance wise back then even if I could afford it. Now I can grasp an MP3 player from Apple and have a far more useful device that is a fraction of the size of the Vic 20.

In any event ancient history and the current reality of devices like the Nuc have me wondering what Apple might be up to with the Mini or its replacement. With the power profiles so low (supposedly) on Broadwell I see so many options for Apple that it mind bending. How about a Mini that is 1/4 the size of the Mac Pro but more or less modeled on the Pro or a Mini built into a keyboard? The low power points of these chips and the high integration is just amazing to a guy that has owned a Vic 20, CPM based computers, an original Mac Plus and a whole bunch of hardware running Linux over the years.

In any event the longer we wait the more I think the Mini will look a bit different than today's Mini. It just makes sense that it would be overhauled when we are about to see an entire new generation of chips with much higher integration. I can even see Apple trying to replace the Mini with something that runs on their coming A8 chip.
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