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2014 Mac mini Wishlist - Page 18

post #681 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Using the Razer Blade as an example (with the 765M at 2 GB of GDDR5 memory), what would an acceptable xMac have in it and what would it be priced at?
post #682 of 1452
Quote:
It isn't on sale due to a rather pathetic attempt at protectionism. You guys need to get your government under control.
 

*grins.  Follow the money trail, Wizard.  *Points to that 'American' institution the 'Federal Reserve...'

 

Or the NDDA act that was signed quietly in by the 'great hope' a mere half a year ago...during Thanksgiving...?

 

From the 'country' that had Lincoln and Kennedy whacked...(I wonder why...)

 

Or guantanamo bay...which is a human rights outrage...

 

 

 

Still, you won't find me sticking up for the E.U.  I hope it comes crashing down.  We ought to follow Iceland's example and give the banks the 'finger' and take threats of 'marshall law' with the contempt they deserve.

 

Shame Ron Paul didn't make it during the 'big 6 media' white wash of his campaign.  He'd have still been up against it even IF he'd have made it to office.

 

Anyway...back on thread...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #683 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense. Of course Apple doesn't make such a beast but even with Haswell Intel still trails AMD by a significant margin in GPU performance, especially for gaming. AMD's Richland variant can be anywhere from 25% to 50% faster than Intels GPUs. Of course that performance does mean more heat. So even though Haswells GPUs are much improved over Intel previous efforts they still aren't optimal for low cost high performance GPU based computing. Anandtech isn't a site I regularly reccomend but they have a Richland review up where you can see the battle between the two platforms.

In any event if your machine is handling current games I'd relax and enjoy until it doesn't. The goodness of Haswell will take a while to jell if you will. New drivers will likely get revved a few times until the hardware is fully exploited. Plus I'm still expecting more Haswell hardware to trickle out of Intel this year. Plus Haswell has features it may take awhile for the operating system to fully exploit.

Nice idea.  Aint going to happen.  More heat?  Def' aint going to happen.

 

Opterons look good bang for buck on Mac Pro.  But teh Opterons aint going to happen either.  

 

AMD for gpus?  Sure.  In the Pro.  Or iMac.

 

Looks like Iris for Air.  Iris for Mac Mini.

 

Given the emphasis on GPUs with Pro...be nice to see Apple put a damn good gpu in the Mini.  Could be a killer little machine.  But Apple are still playing their 'upsell' games.  Nickle and dime...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #684 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Why wouldn't they use a chip with Iris or Iris Pro? As for your questions about specific chips, I'm just not that excited over Intels marketing the same damn chip 100 different ways.

I look at this way, an ideal Mini these days needs four real cores to make the machine acceptable to a wide array of users. Four cores seem to be in the sweet spot where many apps benefit yet we don't end up with useless hardware for the majority of users.

As for a GPU, while Intel has vastly improved its GPU it still gets slaughtered by discrete offerings. I'd love to see a Mini with discrete GPU but tend to believe that we won't ever see them in this platform again. The little box doesn't have the power supply and thermal capacity apparently.

I'm so bummed by this realization that frankly my desire for an XMac is growing. Ideally what Apple could offer up XMac wise is a cut down Mac Pro. Literally cut the machine down in size so that it is maybe six inches tall, put a desktop Haswell processor in there coupled to a Southern Islands GPU of around 75 watts. One GPU would be fine as long as it can drive Apples coming retina displays. This would give us a "mainstream" desktop that could easily come into the same price range as the upper end Mini. The third wall of the thermal core might even allow the mounting of a magnetic drive to supplement the SSD.

I'm trying not to dis the Mini here but its major problem is the thermal limitations it has and will always have. Frankly the gap between what the Mini can do and what the New Mac Pro can do has just gotten bigger. Dual high performance GPUs put up against integrated Intel GPUs is actually funny. Depending upon how the new Mac Pro is marketed demand for an XMac might actually grow. It really depends upon the new Pros entry point.

 

You're going to have a few choices.

 

The New Mac Pro.

 

Too expensive?  Wait a couple of years and get a used/refurb one.

 

or 'Hope' Apple gets you a nice entry model for about £1495-£1695.  (We'll see if they pass the savings on that giant case to the customer...don't hold your breath...they cut the DVD in the imac and bumped the entry price...and still charged £65 for the DVD player...bloody cheeky that is...)

 

The Iris/Iris Pro going into the new Mini should do just fine with Hi Def 3D content.  Medium level on games...3D apps.  30-60fps.  I'm guessing from the demos I've seen.  The new Air gives a few clues...

 

Be nice if they could put an Nvidia 'M' gpu in the top end model.  Again, let's not hold our breath.

 

You could always plump for a retina Macbook Pro (given that you already, strangely have a Macbook Pro 2008 model?)  

 

Why not just go for the new Air?  Fantastic battery life...decent gpu and cpu...basically what the Mini will be when Apple gets around to releasing it...

 

Will the mini be anything but nominally more powerful?

 

Or just save (if you've been waiting since 2008...surely you've been saving for a new Mac...and just go all out and get the new Mac Pro?  Put down a cash deposit and pay the rest over 12 months...)

 

I took advantage of the % to get the new iMac.  Good deal.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #685 of 1452

http://www.barefeats.com/imac12p1.html

 

That iMac is looking good vs the hexcore too.

 

Good job they finally got around to releasing a new Pro in half a year's time. ;)

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #686 of 1452

http://www.barefeats.com/imac12p2.html

 

...and the iMac comes with a stunning display.  I wonder what price you have to pay to beat the display that's included in the iMac?

 

iMac wish list?

 

New Hexcore cpu.  And faster gpu!

 

oh...and Retina!!!  (2014?)

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #687 of 1452

...yeah...and SSD as STANDARD.

 

If they can include it in the Air...why not the Mini AND the iMac given what they are asking you to pay?

 

For the bump in entry price of £100 they could have included a 256 gig SSD...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #688 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

...yeah...and SSD as STANDARD.

 

If they can include it in the Air...why not the Mini AND the iMac given what they are asking you to pay?

 

For the bump in entry price of £100 they could have included a 256 gig SSD...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.


If the costs lined up, they could do fusion drive standard or eventually move to hybrid drives in these models. The problems with ssds is capacity. In the mac pro they're betting on centralized or at storage.

post #689 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Iris Pro graphics in this year's Mac mini could carry me 2-3 years at the very least possibly more.
post #690 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


If the costs lined up, they could do fusion drive standard or eventually move to hybrid drives in these models. The problems with ssds is capacity. In the mac pro they're betting on centralized or at storage.

Capacity is an issue but you also have the issue of wear which small capacity drives have less ability to resist. In some sorts of server based usage, SSDs are known to wear out. Obviously this isn't a big issue with the Mini, except for when it is pressed into server duties it isn't well engineered for.

On the Mac Pro I don't see them betting at all, most users with high storage capacity needs are already using attached storage. Likewise many users are already required to make use of centralized storage. The only people that really loose are those that got by with just the internal expansion capability of the old Mac Pro. I'd be the first to admit that those are a significant number of users, but we will only know the full impact after the complete Mac Pro system debuts. That is I fully expect that the Mac Pro will be paired with some sort of low cost Apple storage array.
post #691 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Iris Pro graphics in this year's Mac mini could carry me 2-3 years at the very least possibly more.

It is a feature that is certainly worth waiting for. Still the big issue in my mind is drivers. It looks like Mavericks will finally address some of those issues as it looks like Apple will be shipping a complete version of OpenGL for one. I still don't know if they will resolve the OpenCL issues though. I'm very much in a wait and see mode right now.
post #692 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Capacity is an issue but you also have the issue of wear which small capacity drives have less ability to resist. In some sorts of server based usage, SSDs are known to wear out. Obviously this isn't a big issue with the Mini, except for when it is pressed into server duties it isn't well engineered for.

On the Mac Pro I don't see them betting at all, most users with high storage capacity needs are already using attached storage. Likewise many users are already required to make use of centralized storage. The only people that really loose are those that got by with just the internal expansion capability of the old Mac Pro. I'd be the first to admit that those are a significant number of users, but we will only know the full impact after the complete Mac Pro system debuts. That is I fully expect that the Mac Pro will be paired with some sort of low cost Apple storage array.


Of course users with high storage capacity requirements need a dedicated chassis for it. I pointed out that the chipset has 6 sata ports. In the mac pro four were used for drive bays. Two were allocated to optical bays. If you had 4 dedicated to standard bays for storage/scratch space and 2 dedicated to card based ssds, that could be 12TB with current drive sizes. In ever expanding libraries, there's always some process for offline storage in place, and you do still need a backup, which shouldn't be part of the same box. My point being it's a matter of whether the majority of those users have requirements that aren't being met by the latest generation of higher capacity drives. External is also sometimes implemented for performance reasons when something like an 8 member Raid 0 or 10 is required. In terms of low cost storage arrays, they're not a very interesting market for almost any company. Companies bundle drives to improve margins, especially as the boxes need to be tested anyway. I don't see Apple going any lower than what we have with the current thunderbolt raid. As for me, I like full control. If I was going to raid the drives, I would purchase extras and ensure all firmware matches. It's just better for me when I can do that. The nice thing with thunderbolt there is you don't require a separate host card. It's one less thing to test.

post #693 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Bump! No one has any suggestions or news?

 

Updates can happen anytime, but Apple's next traditional product release window is the first week of August.

 

So the rumour mill will probably heat up again in about 2-3 weeks.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #694 of 1452
Thread Starter 
With the delay of mobile Broadwell processors, I'd say if I'm going to buy a new mini, this year (or early next year) is definitely the time to do it.
post #695 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

With the delay of mobile Broadwell processors,
What delay, Intel hasn't even released the entire Haswell update yet.
Quote:
I'd say if I'm going to buy a new mini, this year (or early next year) is definitely the time to do it.

The time to do it is when you need it.
post #696 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What delay, Intel hasn't even released the entire Haswell update yet.
The time to do it is when you need it.

Right now it's worth waiting a couple months even if you do "need" it. "Need" is often a flexible thing since few folks has no computer at all.
post #697 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Right now it's worth waiting a couple months even if you do "need" it. "Need" is often a flexible thing since few folks has no computer at all.

Good point. Haswell has been working out really well in the products shipping so far. We can only hope that the Mini leverages Haswell as effectively. At this point we are likely only talking a couple of months as you state, something prospective customers should note.
post #698 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What delay, Intel hasn't even released the entire Haswell update yet.
The time to do it is when you need it.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32085-mobile-broadwell-in-2h-2014
post #699 of 1452

I'd hardly call that a delay! Especially considering that intel hasn't even completed its Haswell launch yet. It will be the second half of the year before all of Intels Haswell hardware launches.

This so called delay is more of case of some analysts expectations not being meant. I suspect Intel will launch when they have a good product to sell instead of launching on artificial calendar dates.
post #700 of 1452

That isn't necessarily a delay. It's a year between products.

post #701 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

That isn't necessarily a delay. It's a year between products.

Apparently, work on Broadwell was supposed to begin this year so there is a setback of a few months.
post #702 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Apparently, work on Broadwell was supposed to begin this year so there is a setback of a few months.

I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Last I new Intel had multiple teams developing processors so that tweaked devices come out each year. Broadwell would be in development already and may hae been in development for two years now or more.
post #703 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Last I new Intel had multiple teams developing processors so that tweaked devices come out each year. Broadwell would be in development already and may have been in development for two years now or more.

Fudzilla. Rather what I mean to say is they were going to get it started on the pipeline this year though have pushed it back.
post #704 of 1452

I still do not buy into every rumor of delays. It's more interesting to read about a predicted date range rather than something as ambiguous as "later than expected".

post #705 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Where the hell is the news on this? I hate to sound impatient though I am going to be. The hell with the iWatch. There should be some new rumors out now.
post #706 of 1452
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
Where the hell is the news on this? I hate to sound impatient though I am going to be. There should be some new rumors out now.

 

The Mac Mini never comes out until the iMac. The iMac won't come out until Thunderbolt 2.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #707 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The Mac Mini never comes out until the iMac. The iMac won't come out until Thunderbolt 2.

Damn! You're quick! Even though I wouldn't have a use for it, Thunderbolt 2 might swing me in favor of buying a new mini.
post #708 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Where the hell is the news on this? I hate to sound impatient though I am going to be. The hell with the iWatch. There should be some new rumors out now.

Sales are in the crapper, there just isn't the interest that there once was in desktops. You probably have noticed but even Analysts don't bother commenting on the Mini anymore.

As for iWatch I don't get the interest either, if it isn't a full iPhone replacement I can see a strong reason to wear one. IWatch would be great at a nudist camp if it could completely replace an iPhone though. You know when you have no place else to put your phone 😂😂😱😱😝😝. But that would have to mean that iWatch is a full iPhone replacement and I just don't see that happening.

In any event I wouldn't get to wound up until the end of September. Intel should have new chips on the market buy that time.
post #709 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The Mac Mini never comes out until the iMac. The iMac won't come out until Thunderbolt 2.
Except for last year of course. Well at least it was available for sale early.
post #710 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Oh I don't expect sales to be extremely high nor do I expect analysts to comment though I don't declare the desktop dead. Do you have a chart that says what sales are though? Also if the mini is cease to exist? What alternatives do I have that look as cool and I can use Windows 7 on?
post #711 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Oh I don't expect sales to be extremely high nor do I expect analysts to comment though I don't declare the desktop dead.
The desktop isn't dead but it isn't strong either. In Apple case, with heavy consummer sales it is even worst. Consummer buying habits have changed dramatically with the advent of smart phones and tablets. This is one reason why I expect the Mini to morph into a more business oriented machine.
Quote:
Do you have a chart that says what sales are though?
Follow Apples quarterly reports, that is the best way to get a feel for the state of the business. As it is the last time I heard anything third party about a breakdown of desktop sales, it had the iMac flat sales wise with the Mini and Pro down heavily.
Quote:
Also if the mini is cease to exist? What alternatives do I have that look as cool and I can use Windows 7 on?

Mac hardware or Windows? In the end for desktop Apple hardware the Mac Pro would be about it. Lonovo has some interesting compact machines that might be of interest if Windows 7 is your only concern. I wouldn't get in a rush though, Haswell has great potential for transforming the Mini. It is really up to Apple to be proactive in making the Mini far more tractive than it is now.
post #712 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The desktop isn't dead but it isn't strong either. In Apple case, with heavy consumer sales it is even worst. Consumer buying habits have changed dramatically with the advent of smart phones and tablets. This is one reason why I expect the Mini to morph into a more business oriented machine.

Fantastic. I am okay with this.
Quote:
Follow Apples quarterly reports, that is the best way to get a feel for the state of the business. As it is the last time I heard anything third party about a breakdown of desktop sales, it had the iMac flat sales wise with the Mini and Pro down heavily.
Mac hardware or Windows? In the end for desktop Apple hardware the Mac Pro would be about it. Lenovo has some interesting compact machines that might be of interest if Windows 7 is your only concern. I wouldn't get in a rush though, Haswell has great potential for transforming the Mini. It is really up to Apple to be proactive in making the Mini far more tractive than it is now.

My only concern is that it would be canceled. If it is not in any danger of going away, I am fine. I thought about getting an iMac only because of the graphics issue though I got the game I wanted to run at a passable level using the Intel HD 3000 which I was surprised at. I would not expect Apple to use the Iris Pro though it would be nice if they did.

If they use the i5-4258U, i5-4288U, and/or the i7-4558U then I am okay and that will lean me towards buying since I don't see the next mini coming until 2015. Using the same processors as the MacBook Air wouldn't make sense and i5-4200Y or i5-4200U would be a definite no. I wouldn't mind seeing an i7-4702HQ or i7-4702MQ which are both 37W quad core.
post #713 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


This is one reason why I expect the Mini to morph into a more business oriented machine.

 

Apple's never really been keen on the business market.

In an era where the iPad is the company's solution for a cash register, would the Mini really be their "business" machine?

 

iWork for iCloud doesn't even have collaboration features yet. Does Apple really care about business?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #714 of 1452

In terms of the next Mini update, it will be interesting to watch.

 

My guess is that all of Apple's Mac product updates were pushed to late 2013 because of the Fall 2013 New Tech Trifecta:

 

USB 3.1, SATA 3.2 and TB2.

 

Throw in the introduction of 801.11ac Wi-Fi on Macs recently, and it's almost a crime not to buy a new computer this fall.

 

Will the Mini get all four?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #715 of 1452
I don't think USB 3.1 will ship on anything until 2014.
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post #716 of 1452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

In terms of the next Mini update, it will be interesting to watch.

My guess is that all of Apple's Mac product updates were pushed to late 2013 because of the Fall 2013 New Tech Trifecta:

USB 3.1, SATA 3.2 and TB2.

Throw in the introduction of 801.11ac Wi-Fi on Macs recently, and it's almost a crime not to buy a new computer this fall.

Will the Mini get all four?

Somehow I doubt it will get all four. The updates need to come soon though so Apple can eventually push out the 2011 refurbs and replace them with mostly 2012 and some 2013.
post #717 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Apple's never really been keen on the business market.
In an era where the iPad is the company's solution for a cash register, would the Mini really be their "business" machine?
By business I mean more professionally oriented. The iPad might be a cash register machine but to run a store you still need a server.
Quote:
iWork for iCloud doesn't even have collaboration features yet. Does Apple really care about business?

You make an assumption that collaboration is a big deal for many in business. It is more of a niche than anything.
post #718 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

In terms of the next Mini update, it will be interesting to watch.
Yes it will be an interesting show.
Quote:
My guess is that all of Apple's Mac product updates were pushed to late 2013 because of the Fall 2013 New Tech Trifecta:
Actually I doubt that USB 3.1 isn't really ready, and Apple is moving away from SATA. The new WiFi standard is obvious and frankly already to go. So the rational reasons for late 2013 refreshes are TB 2 and the fact that Intel hasn't released the right Haswell chips for these machines.
Quote:

Throw in the introduction of 801.11ac Wi-Fi on Macs recently, and it's almost a crime not to buy a new computer this fall.

Will the Mini get all four?

Not a chance.
post #719 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

and Apple is moving away from SATA.

 

Isn't the move away from SATA based on the fact it currently doesn't have the speed necessary for SSDs?

 

Isn't that what SATA 3.2 means to solve?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #720 of 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Isn't the move away from SATA based on the fact it currently doesn't have the speed necessary for SSDs?
That is part of it, but SATA is also legacy hardware. If ou get rid of SATA you eliminated a lot of inter posing electronics and thus a lot of wasted heat. Effectively dropping SATA completely can lead to a power savings.
Quote:
Isn't that what SATA 3.2 means to solve?
It is kinda late for that. Even in PC land PCI Express solutions are at hand. The industry has even come up with new standards for interchangeable hardware. It is a slow process but in a couple of years any SSD with a SATA interface will likely be meant for legacy hardware only.

I'm not here to say the transition will be instant but rather that SATA is on life support with an expected slow deth.
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