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Initial iPad mini availability may be limited due to issues at display supplier

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Even before Apple opens its virtual doors to iPad mini preorders, one analyst claims low yield rates from the company's display makers could put the tablet in short supply ahead of the lucrative holiday shopping season.

NPD DisplaySearch analyst Richard Shim told CNET on Tuesday that one of Apple's two suppliers for the iPad mini's 7.9-inch display is having issues meeting its planned yield rates, effectively leaving only one fully-functioning provider.

iPad mini
Source: Apple


Instead of going with Samsung, formerly Apple's number one display supplier, the iPad maker chose to order parts from LG and AU Optronics. LG shipped 300,000 panels in September, with plans to ramp up production to one million in October, 2.5 million in November, and 3 million in December. AU, however, is seeing trouble with the 7.9-inch panels and only shipped 100,000 in September, ahead of a planned ramp up to 400,000 in October, 800,000 in November, and one million in December.

"We're now starting to see the issues that [Apple] is having with Samsung," Shim said. "The problem is that AUO is a new supplier, and they're not able to get to the volumes that Apple needs. So, essentially, there's just one supplier."

In a blog post, the analyst pointed out that Apple's relatively low price of entry is "expected to appeal to a wider audience and drive up demand. However, panel supply chain indications point to an even more than typical tightness in the market for the iPad Mini."

Apple usually counts on at least two major suppliers to provide displays for hot-selling products. For example, both Samsung and LG took orders for the third-generation iPad.

It remains to be seen what if Apple was able to pump out enough units for a successful launch, but if demand for the iPad mini is as strong as it was for the iPhone 5, an initial stock out would almost be a certainty.
post #2 of 47

And some people want Apple to price it even lower than $329? Why in the world would Apple do that? These people must not be very clever or business minded. I believe that the people who say that are just saying it because they want to buy one for themselves, and they're looking to save a buck. Well, guess what. It aint gonna happen bro. Go buy a crappy Android tablet, if price is your main concern. Thankfully, Apple is not a part of the "race to the bottom" mentality that other companies have.

 

Apple is going to sell every single iPad Mini that they can make at $329, it would be totally retarded to sell it for any cheaper. The only reason that many other companies price their tablets at rock bottom prices, is because they have no choice. 

post #3 of 47
What else is new?
post #4 of 47

Stay tuned for tomorrow's breaking news, "Initial 13-inch MacBook Pro Supply May Be Affected by Low Display Yields."

post #5 of 47
If Apple were to start publishing a phone book, some halfwit analyst would announce that 'initial supplies will be constrained due to display yields'. Apparently, it's easier to publish that line than to actually say 'this device will be VERY popular'.
post #6 of 47
Oh lord- here we go

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
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Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #7 of 47
The big point of this display choice was because it's going to lower the cost for Apple because it's easier to produce so nless it's because of in-cell tech I don't see why as Apple has been producing 163 PPI displays since the original iPhone.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #8 of 47
Maybe true, maybe not. But what I heard is MUCH more troubling. My cousin%u2019s dog walker works in an Apple factory in Mongolia, and from what I hear, the iPad Mini is NOT made of magic, and if gouged with keys MAY show a mark. I wish Apple would use magic, like all the other companies--who make physical objects that cannot be scratched by the laws of physics. I wouldn%u2019t be surprised if a dropped iPad MAY break, too! Give me tablet that can never, ever break when dropped, any day of the week.
post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The big point of this display choice was because it's going to lower the cost for Apple because it's easier to produce so nless it's because of in-cell tech I don't see why as Apple has been producing 163 PPI displays since the original iPhone.

Do we know for sure that the iPad Mini uses an in cell touch panel? If yes, then perhaps that it is a contributing factor, if yields are low.

post #10 of 47

Well, they can fight for this 'low supply', I'll wait for the retina version next March. 

post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

Well, they can fight for this 'low supply', I'll wait for the retina version next March. 

And if there ever is a "retina" version, then that'll probably be in low supply too, so you'll be getting yours much, much later than March most likely, probably closer to 2014. And where did you get the idea that Apple is on a 6 month update schedule all of a sudden? 

post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153710/initial-ipad-mini-supply-may-be-affected-by-low-display-yields#post_2218017"]Do we know for sure that the iPad Mini uses an in cell touch panel? If yes, then perhaps that it is a contributing factor, if yields are low.

We'll have to wait for the break down. I don't recall them mentioning it during today's event. Perhaps it's not ready for that size display as it seems like something to tout.

It's surely more costly but it would also reduce the thickness and perhaps some power usage so it seems like something they'd want to use if at all feasible, but we need to remember an A6 would also reduce power usage for a given performance level over the A5 and they didn't include that due to what can only be assumed is cost, just like in the iPod Touch.

Personally, I'm saying Apple will sell a dozen millions of these this quarter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

Well, they can fight for this 'low supply', I'll wait for the retina version next March. 

Good luck with that. I predict the next version will be out next Autumn with an A6 running at 1024x768 that is either lighter/thinner or cheaper. I also predict the next 10" iPad update will be next Autumn with an A7 or A7X which will be the earliest for the Img Tech Rogue 6 GPU which should make things much easier for the iPad with that 2048x1536, which means it'll be the year after that we'll see the A7 or A7X in the iPad mini with a Retina Display. IOW, I'm saying 2014.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #13 of 47
The panel was rumored to use a PET based film touch layer with the lamination down by TPK. Double sided ITO (DITO) on film to replace one layer of glass. We still don't know the backplane could be A-Si, LTPS or IGZO. The power consumption looks great for the size of the screen with a battery rated at 16 Watt Hrs. The Nexus 7 claims 8hrs with the same size battery.
post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Good luck with that. I predict the next version will be out next Autumn with an A6 running at 1024x768 that is either lighter/thinner or cheaper. I also predict the next 10" iPad update will be next Autumn with an A7 or A7X which will be the earliest for the Img Tech Rogue 6 GPU which should make things much easier for the iPad with that 2048x1536, which means it'll be the year after that we'll see the A7 or A7X in the iPad mini with a Retina Display. IOW, I'm saying 2014.

 

People such as John Gruber are saying you can definitely tell this is a non-Retina Display when reading text. Sounds obvious of course, but I hoped with this being a smaller display than iPad 2 it might be much less noticeable. So fixing this downer will be a priority for Apple in the first revision I imagine and hope.

 

I think it's a no brainer they put Retina in the new iPad Mini next year as long as they can do it for a reasonable cost. But regardless how long it takes, I will be sitting this out until they do put a Retina in it. I don't care if that means waiting 2-3 years. I just can't go back to reading on a non-Retina iPad now.

post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

The panel was rumored to use a PET based film touch layer with the lamination down by TPK. Double sided ITO (DITO) on film to replace one layer of glass. We still don't know the backplane could be A-Si, LTPS or IGZO. The power consumption looks great for the size of the screen with a battery rated at 16 Watt Hrs. The Nexus 7 claims 8hrs with the same size battery.

Good point. If it's IGZO then there could be a yield problem with that tech but we've seen so many sky is falling rumours about production problems that haven't been true that I'd bet against there being any. Tim Cook has been great with the component sourcing over the years and I don't expect that to stop now.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

People such as John Gruber are saying you can definitely tell this is a non-Retina Display when reading text. Sounds obvious of course, but I hoped with this being a smaller display than iPad 2 it might be much less noticeable. So fixing this downer will be a priority for Apple in the first revision I imagine and hope.

I think it's a no brainer they put Retina in the new iPad Mini next year as long as they can do it for a reasonable cost. But regardless how long it takes, I will be sitting this out until they do put a Retina in it. I don't care if that means waiting 2-3 years. I just can't go back to reading on a non-Retina iPad now.

think about what the iPad (3) took to get Retina. They had to increase the thickness and weight considerably. That is unusual for Apple. Now the A6 doesn't bring anythng else to the table with the GPU, only the CPU.

So how does the A6X get 2x better GPU or the iPad (4)? It's not likely from a better GPU, but more GPU cores, faster GPU clock speeds, and possibly more bandwidth, or a combination. The 32nm down from 45nm helps allow this without using any additional power to do so (or they could have stayed the same and increased the battery life quite a bit.

Now the backlight on the iPad (3) is a power drain and that would be smaller, but so is the battery in the iPad mini. I think the 16.7 W rumour from Sunday is accurate. That's 4.39x larger than the new iPod Touch battery which puts it in line as the iPad mini display area is 4.27x larger than the Touch's 4" display.

All of this screams no 326 PPI 2048x1536 Retina display until Rogue 6 is available which means 2nd half of next year... but the iPad mini gets the Apple ASIC the year after it comes out.

I certainly hope I'm wrong, but Apple tends to plan this stuff out for the long game and doesn't often waver from their path.


PS: With a 163 PPI display it's the same reading "quality" as the first 3 iPhones and Touches, except with IPS, better backlights, and better colour representation. I think the resolution is probably the most important but it's surely better than the iPad 2 which I thought was pretty good for reading... until I got the iPad (3). Truth be told I don't see myself getting this device but i think it's a fine device for the price with 30 sq inches of area.
Edited by SolipsismX - 10/23/12 at 9:00pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

People such as John Gruber are saying you can definitely tell this is a non-Retina Display when reading text. Sounds obvious of course, but I hoped with this being a smaller display than iPad 2 it might be much less noticeable. So fixing this downer will be a priority for Apple in the first revision I imagine and hope.

 

I think it's a no brainer they put Retina in the new iPad Mini next year as long as they can do it for a reasonable cost. But regardless how long it takes, I will be sitting this out until they do put a Retina in it. I don't care if that means waiting 2-3 years. I just can't go back to reading on a non-Retina iPad now.

Of course it's not going to compare to a premium retina display, but everybody has a different set of eyes and the Verge wrote this:

 

The display on the mini looks incredibly sharp, and even though the resolution is lower than the 3rd and 4th generation full-size iPad, it doesn't immediately seem like a 1024 x 768 display. The smaller, 7.9-inch surface area certainly helps squeeze the pixels.

post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Maybe true, maybe not. But what I heard is MUCH more troubling. My cousin%u2019s dog walker works in an Apple factory in Mongolia, and from what I hear, the iPad Mini is NOT made of magic, and if gouged with keys MAY show a mark. I wish Apple would use magic, like all the other companies--who make physical objects that cannot be scratched by the laws of physics. I wouldn%u2019t be surprised if a dropped iPad MAY break, too! Give me tablet that can never, ever break when dropped, any day of the week.

Ummm, it might not be magic...maybe its just that no one ever actually touches the other brands???
post #19 of 47
Don't you guys get it??? They'll say anything to push the stock even lower ahead of the earnings report on Thursday.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #20 of 47
Yields should be much higher the smaller a display gets.
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Yields should be much higher the smaller a display gets.

Yeah, but is more inline with a 5x larger iPhone 3GS display than a smaller iPad 2 display if you look at PPI and not resolution. Still, I would expect them to be able to not have yield issues unless using a more volatile tech like IGZO for the displays.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by anfboymn View Post

What else is new?

Yep. This is the typical 'our numbers might be too high so let's make up an issue so it's not our fault' game

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #23 of 47

Look.  Just understand that availability will be limited, so you should rush in and get yours.

 

/marketing

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

People such as John Gruber are saying you can definitely tell this is a non-Retina Display when reading text.  ...

 

I don't trust John Gruber.  I would rather use my own eyes than his stardust filled vision, especially when it comes to anything to do with text, graphics, women, or Stanley Kubrick.  He has weird and powerful biases on all those topics.  :)

post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
Good luck with that. I predict the next version will be out next Autumn with an A6 running at 1024x768 that is either lighter/thinner or cheaper. I also predict the next 10" iPad update will be next Autumn with an A7 or A7X which will be the earliest for the Img Tech Rogue 6 GPU which should make things much easier for the iPad with that 2048x1536, which means it'll be the year after that we'll see the A7 or A7X in the iPad mini with a Retina Display. IOW, I'm saying 2014.

 

This prediction doesn't make much sense to me. 1 year for a minor bump of the CPU and cheaper? (i doubt it can go much ligher, and not a priority either since it's already light enough). Even at this moment, Amazon is already producing 8.9 inc 1900x1200 tablet for $299. Apple cannot afford waiting another year and still with the same resolution for the iPad mini. By that time, Amazon would probably already be selling 7" 1080p display tablet, at $199.

 

I give Apple 6 months to vastly improve the iPad mini display.  

post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

This prediction doesn't make much sense to me. 1 year for a minor bump of the CPU and cheaper? (i doubt it can go much ligher, and not a priority either since it's already light enough). Even at this moment, Amazon is already producing 8.9 inc 1900x1200 tablet for $299. Apple cannot afford waiting another year and still with the same resolution for the iPad mini. By that time, Amazon would probably already be selling 7" 1080p display tablet, at $199.

I give Apple 6 months to vastly improve the iPad mini display.  

History has shown to be very different. Sure, Apple could change it up and offer some odd resolution just to compete head-to-head with resolution for a product that isn't yet shipping but why go to all that trouble when it means messing with the devs, apps, app store, and ultimately the user experience.

The only reasonable option based on their history is to go to 2048x1536 which we know is very power intensive. Did you not see what it did to the iPad (3) weight and thickness? I don't think that's an option for 1) a low cost device, and 2) a device that is seemingly built around how light it is.

For those reasons I expect something like the 3GS to iPhone 4 transition where the 3GS was lagging behind far behind the competition in resolution but then trounced them with the iPhone 4. That hasn't hurt iPhone sales.

But 6 month cycles? Really? What will come out every 6 months to make this a feasible option? With the iPad (3) to iPad (4) it's very clear it's 32nm without ever seeing an x-ray of the ASIC. A new lithogaprhy doesn't happen every 6 months or even every year.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I don't trust John Gruber. 

And he was totally 100% wrong on the name iPad Air. I for one, am glad, because that would have been a lame name that has nothing to do with an iPad. 

 

I also think that the font size on his page is way too small. People shouldn't trust somebody else's eyesight to tell them how something looks, just go and have a look at it yourself in person, if they want to know how the iPad Mini display is like.

post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153710/initial-ipad-mini-availability-may-be-limited-due-to-issues-at-display-supplier#post_2218082"]And he was totally 100% wrong on the name iPad Air. I for one, am glad, because that would have been a lame name that has nothing to do with an iPad. 

I also think that the font size on his page is way too small. People shouldn't trust somebody else's eyesight to tell them how something looks, just go and have a look at it yourself in person, if they want to know how the iPad Mini display is like.

1) That was his opinion on what name would be best to describe the weight as being a key factor for the design goals and his assumption based on that. He never said it will be named that. We can conclude he was right about the weight.

2) He admitted today that iPad mini is more apropos after holding it.

3) You can easily use Command+Plus_Sign/Minus Sign to make the text bigger/smaller on any website.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #29 of 47
Hmmm an analyst rumors on a not yet shipping product, 2 days before quarterly earnings press meetings.

Sounds suspect, trying to manipulate the stock market for his paid clients who shorted the stock.

The Apple quarterly earnings won't be "great" but many Mac purchases were postponed for the updates and the iPhone 5 was only available for a short time and demand outweighs supply ( which isn't a bad thing )

I'm looking forward to the Calendar Q4 Apple sales VS HP, the worlds number 1 computer manufacturer that doesn't make phones or tablets.
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) That was his opinion on what name would be best to describe the weight as being a key factor for the design goals and his assumption based on that. He never said it will be named that. We can conclude he was right about the weight.
2) He admitted today that iPad mini is more apropos after holding it.
3) You can easily use Command+Plus_Sign/Minus Sign to make the text bigger/smaller on any website.

1) Yes, there's no doubt that iPad Mini is incredibly light, I don't think that anybody is going to disagree with that. I was pointing out that he made three guesses as to what it would be called, and iPad Mini was his last choice.

 

 

That’s why my guesses as to what the thing is going to be called go in this order:

  1. iPad Air
  2. iPad
  3. iPad Mini

2) Well, I'm glad that he changed his mind.

3) Thanks for that tip, though I assume that you meant it jokingly, since I am of course aware of that. Since the default size is so tiny, it gives somebody an insight as to where somebody's design sensibilities lie. I remember tiny text being popular on some websites more than a decade ago, in 2012, not so much.

 

I can of course finish my post in a very small font, and you can of course enlarge it if you have difficulty reading it, but in general, I try to avoid places where people use strange fonts and/or tiny fonts. The default size should be easily legible, IMO.

 

 

 

post #31 of 47
I think that these analysts just copy and paste this pish every time Apple releases a product and Apple still manage to ship millions of units regardless.

On another note, what do you think Apple has up its sleeve for March now that it has moved the tablet launches to October?

March? - maybe Mac App Store and Apple software suites?
June - Mac OS
Sept - iPhone/iOS
Oct - iPads

Hardware refreshes come in all over the place for Mac and I doubt that a new Mac Pro can justify a big press event all on its own.
Edited by irnchriz - 10/24/12 at 12:25am
post #32 of 47

Where do the analysts get their info? Is there a published document from the supplier that indicates what their production numbers are and or what their customer contracts (or orders, etc) specify is their target production? Or any info published guidance from Apple that says "our earnings are earnings will be lower than expected due to component supply constraints" 

 

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

I think that these analysts just copy and paste this pish every time Apple releases a product and Apple still manage to ship millions of units regardless.
On another note, what do you think Apple has up its sleeve for March now that it has moved the tablet launches to October?
March? - maybe Mac App Store and Apple software suites?
June - Mac OS
Sept - iPhone/iOS
Oct - iPads
Hardware refreshes come in all over the place for Mac and I doubt that a new Mac Pro can justify a big press event all on its own.

I thnk in march we see another Apple TV. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we saw a refreshed mini with retina depending on sales. I wouldn't count on it- but you'd be a fool to count against it. Who saw the iPad 4 coming? One day before we got the first rumor- a slightly bigger camera hole- that's it.

Macs will be spaced throughout the year as they always do.

They could also move the iPhone back to where it was 2 years ago and iPad up to September as it will likely be a smaller change than the 4S to 5 was. There's no telling what apple does.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #34 of 47
Useful info considering the launch was rather underwhelming and did nothing for Apple's share price.
post #35 of 47

Is this the same screen that was in the iPhone 3Gs? If it is, I would expect a better screen in the next update. The tradeoff of a little thicker did not seem to hurt sales of the iPad3. Sales might drop off after the holidays since people might wait for the spring update.

post #36 of 47

OMG!!!!! I need to pre-order ten ASAP so that I can get rich on EBAY !!!!!!!!!!!1!!11!!!!!1!!!!

It'll be this year's Cabbage Patch Kids 11!!!!!1!!!!1!1!!!!!

post #37 of 47
It doesn't matter how great a product Apple designs if they can't produce it. Apple is becoming another Tesla Motors.

Their stock is now about 100 points below their high of just a couple months ago and that plunge is deserved. They cannot compromise on quality but they can't push the suppliers passed what they can do.

Is Samsung really that much better at building quality components than everyone else? If that is the case, Samsung's got Apple over the proverbial barrel.

Apple can't expect customers to wait until they get their act together -- demand for Apple products contains the critical factor of availability. Customers are not going to wait and will move to competitors.
Edited by waldobushman - 10/24/12 at 5:47am
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Don't you guys get it??? They'll say anything to push the stock even lower ahead of the earnings report on Thursday.

The problems with production are real. The truth is pushing the stock lower by 100 points from Apple's high. 

 

Fact. The earliest the out of stock stores can will be getting iPhone 5 is mid December. I expect the same for the iPads, iMacs, and MBPs. Once the initial supplies are gone, you'll have to wait a long time. Analysts would be best cutting Apple's sales by 1/2 to have any chance of being in the ballpark of actual sales. 

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The problems with production are real. The truth is pushing the stock lower by 100 points from Apple's high. 

 

 

The truth is the for the last 3 months it has been trending a little above and then a little below the S&P in terms of percentage gains and losses. 

 

The truth is that AAPL is a volatile stock that has been prone to short term manipulation but has steadily trended upwards.

 

The truth is your statement is asinine.

post #40 of 47
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post
The problems with production are real.

 

Which you know, given that you work at Foxconn and are being given WAY more thirty second breaks than you're used to.


Fact. The earliest the out of stock stores can will be getting iPhone 5 is mid December.

 

Source. Really, what's your source on this.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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