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Review roundup: Microsoft Surface hardware shines, but software is a letdown - Page 2

post #41 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla View Post

 

Might be talking about the late November delivery for LTE iPad 4's and some delay into November for WiFi's...not a big deal on the WiFi's, unfortunate with the LTE's.

Perhaps, but I don't really see that as any big issue. In one week, it'll already be November.

 

Other companies announce what is basically vaporware products months and months in advance, sometimes even much longer than that.

 

Apple's products are so popular now, that they have to make sure that they have a lot of stock to meet the initial demand, which means millions of units.

post #42 of 122
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries View Post

SurfaceWait.gif



Oh I want one..... Oh wait no maybe not.

Yyyuck!
post #43 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The Surface will have free rein in the market unless Apple is able to deliver their products in a timely fashion. It doesn't matter how great Apple's products are if they can't get them into the customer's hands. Having 3-4 week or more delivery time is not going to cut it.

Millions upon millions got their iPhone 5 into customers hands in a timely fashion with more being delivered daily. Anyone that waited until now to order one will just have to wait a little longer and wait they happily will.
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post #44 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post


Oh I want one..... Oh wait no maybe not.
Yyyuck!

Then choose a different color combination that's to your liking.

post #45 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The Surface will have free rein in the market unless Apple is able to deliver their products in a timely fashion. It doesn't matter how great Apple's products are if they can't get them into the customer's hands. Having 3-4 week or more delivery time is not going to cut it.

I am sure they can produce a hundred times less surface's than apple produces iPads, an yes there will still be plenty of them sitting on shelfs, waiting for innocent bypassers to be picked up. If you think this as to be having free rein, then you are right.
post #46 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Then choose a different color combination that's to your liking.

LOL!

I don't think it's as easy as that. Guess my dislikes goes a few miles deeper.
Nice try anyway.
post #47 of 122
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post
Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.

 

"I know a guy what can break ya' tablet manap'ly." lol.gif

post #48 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

I am sure they can produce a hundred times less surface's than apple produces iPads, an yes there will still be plenty of them sitting on shelfs, waiting for innocent bypassers to be picked up. If you think this as to be having free rein, then you are right.

People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.
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post #49 of 122
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.

 

Phrases like that are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.

post #50 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Nobody here has likely seen, let alone touched, a Surface, but reviewers uniformly heaped high praise on the hardware, and the non existence of major software issues all appear resolvable. Looks like it just needs a few key apps, like the ones mentioned by reviewers, and Surface will be a great device for business customers. Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.

There I corrected that for you!

And keep on dreaming!
Edited by Rabbit_Coach - 10/24/12 at 2:25pm
post #51 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Phrases like that are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.

I guess your rite
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post #52 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


With waldobushman ignoring that it was four months from Surface announcement to shipping.


Meanwhile Surface estimated ship times range from 1-3 weeks.  Which is pretty much the same as the practical amount of time you will wait if you put in an order for an iPhone now.

post #53 of 122

Nothing could be sweeter than these middling-to-damning reviews for Surface after the dozens of miscreant commenters over at The Verge had been crowing over this MS misfire in the making. The Surface has been exposed as a surface-to-ground missile!

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post #54 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Nobody here has likely seen, let alone touched, a Surface, but reviewers uniformly heaped high praise on the hardware, and the major software issues all appear resolvable. Looks like it just needs a few key apps, like the ones mentioned by reviewers, and Surface will be a great device for business customers. Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.

 

 

How are their resources doing with consumers not giving a flying f about Windows Phone?

 

Their resources sure made the Zune a hit, right?

post #55 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.

Oh! Sorry my bad.
post #56 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

  1.  
  2.  
  3.  
Oh! Sorry my bad.

 

I think you meant to say, "Miy badd."

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post #57 of 122

Is it just me, or did everyone just gloss over the fact that the keyboard cover is $$ and should have been included in the review price, since the review was of the system with the cover.

post #58 of 122

Anandtech actually gave it a very strong review, and I have to say, of all the review sites out there, I value their (and Arstechnica) reviews the most. They're certainly not biased and aren't just chasing clicks (like Gizmodo ot The Verge).

 

They also have some decent background on what MS intends Surface to be, which is interesting. Basically, it is not intended to be an iPad competitor in the way you might imagine, but really an extension of the PC.

 

I wouldn't want one, and think MS is trying to do too many things with one device, but I think the Anandtech review is worth reading.

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post #59 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I think you meant to say, "Miy badd."

Hmm.. found only a wierd twitter accound when searching "Miy badd".
So maybe no.

But yes since I am not native english speaking, my orthography is sometimes a bit ugly.
post #60 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

The contrarian view

 

Both the iPod and the iPhone were considered underwhelming at first.  The iPad as a concept was considered a non-competitor, until the market searing price was announced.

 

I see surface as the iPhone.  It will take a version 2 and a waft of apps to make it work, but it's on the same flight path.  MS will pitch ever evolving integration with Windows... YOUR windows... YOUR CORPORATION's windows.   AD, Outlook, Excel, Word.   Your investment is safe.  

 

I tried to find redeeming qualities of the Surface, I really did, however, they overlooked things which I would have expected MS to provide in order to make their product fit in better in Microsoft centered enterprises.  If they even tried, they failed miserably.  NO Outlook, NO AD, NO Remote Desktop.  Also, MS tends to abandon their products, so I have no confidence that they have the fortitude to stick with this if sales are disappointing.  Remember Kin, Windows Phone 7, Zune?

 

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/why-outlook-isnt-on-windows-rt-and-what-you-can-do-instead-1105583#null

 

And from MS's Windows RT FAQ:

 

Some features aren't included in Windows RT:

  • HomeGroup creation (you can join an existing HomeGroup but you can't create a new one)
  • Remote Desktop
  • Domain join

Although you can install apps directly from the Windows Store, you can't install apps on the desktop on Windows RT. Office Home and Student 2013 RT Preview Edition comes preinstalled2, which provides you with touch-optimized desktop versions of the new Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote.

You can only install printers, mice, keyboards, and other devices that are certified for Windows RT.

[1] HD Video Out also requires the HD Digital AV Adapter or VGA Adapter (each sold separately).

[2] Microsoft Home and Student 2013 RT Preview edition installed. Final Office Home & Student version will be installed via Windows Update when available (free download; ISP fees apply). Some features and programs unsupported. Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview and the final version are not for use in commercial, nonprofit, or revenue generating activities. Commercial license options available (sold separately). See http://office.com/officeRT.

post #61 of 122
So the ARM version has USB ports and it can presumably let you install printers and other peripherals to it directly... but who is making these ARM versions of these peripheral drivers for Windows RT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

What part of the hardware shines, exactly?  It's fugly to me, and bloated with windows. Pass.

At least I know my 32 GB iPad has iOS that takes up what, 1 GB?  How much does windows take up on the Surface thing?

I think Dick Applebaum posted it about a week or two ago. I think it came at about 12GB which is why they have to start with 32GB for the base model.

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post #62 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

The contrarian view

 

Both the iPod and the iPhone were considered underwhelming at first.  The iPad as a concept was considered a non-competitor, until the market searing price was announced.

 

I see surface as the iPhone.  It will take a version 2 and a waft of apps to make it work, but it's on the same flight path.  MS will pitch ever evolving integration with Windows... YOUR windows... YOUR CORPORATION's windows.   AD, Outlook, Excel, Word.   Your investment is safe.   

 

Note that Microsoft can succeed, and drive the WinTel and WinARM model closer to their suite spot, if not drive out all but Lenovo, Acer and Asus.   Dell and HP will feel the crunch from iOS on one side and Surface on the other.   Microsoft can develop it's channels and eventually move to a Win8 Desktop ala a Mac Mini.

 

With this model, Microsoft can evolve Win8 into the Cloud, and still be able to get $200/seat in profits.  

 

Microsoft doesn't have to be as good as Apple... Just better than Android systems, and good enough for Dell and HP to decide if they are in (improve quality) or out (cede to MS tablet vertical).  Either way,  Microsoft controls its success or failure.

 

Except MS aint Apple 

 

(you can tell by the software.)

 

They don't talk like Apple

 

They don't walk like Apple

 

They don't think like Apple

 

Smart money sides with the Apple first-gen product, not with a dollar late and a dollar short knockoff device that tries to compete using bad software and a kickstand.

 

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

 

 

Microsoft doesn't have to be as good as Apple... 

 

 

In *this* market, they do. Especially with Google around. There is no beating Google in the universal licensing dept. Microsoft's one and only trump card = nullified. 

 

The Surface is Microsoft's tablet, and is competing directly in the same space and Apple and Google (+ Google's OEMs.)

 

They'd better out Apple Apple. 

 

LOL good luck to them with that. They'd need to wind the clock back 30 years and start over. 


Edited by Quadra 610 - 10/24/12 at 2:49pm
post #63 of 122

The Verge has a very extensive review:

 

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review

 

Wrapup:

 

 

 

Quote:

Let me put it this way: the Surface does not seem like a better tablet than the iPad or the Nexus 7 (the two best products in the category as of this writing). Even though it has a very unique and useful interface, and lots of hooks into Microsoft's ecosystem, it still lacks the polish and apps of those two devices. Is the mail client better here than the native mail client on the iPad or Nexus? No. Is the browser superior? Well, it's an excellent browser, one of the best I've ever used on a mobile device — but it's not wildly better than the iPad or Nexus 7 offerings. Is the interface so much easier to use or so much more powerful that it would tip the hand of an average buyer? Not in my opinion. Is the app selection better or more robust in some way? Not by a long shot, and there's no clear sign it will be anytime soon.

And I must ask — how is it possible that in launching a massively important device like this, Microsoft couldn't muster up a single killer game title to pull in the Xbox fanbase? Halo: Surface Edition, anyone?

The whole thing is honestly perplexing. If this device is not as good as (or better than) the best tablet, and not a complete alternative to a laptop — who is this for? What is it supposed to be?

 

 

Quote:
Maybe I say this too often, but I wanted to love this device. Actually, I wanted to love the Surface when I first saw it, before I even got my hands on the review unit. It made Windows 8 make sense in a way other products had not, and I could see a world where this kind of device was the only one I carried with me. Once I did get the review unit, I wanted to love it even more. And truth be told, there is a lot here to love. Plenty — but not enough for me right now. 

The promise of the Surface was that it could deliver a best-in-class tablet experience, but then transform into the PC you needed when heavier lifting was required. Instead of putting down my tablet and picking up my laptop, I would just snap on my keyboard and get my work done. But that's not what the Surface offers, at least not in my experience. It does the job of a tablet and the job of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one. 

There may be a time in the future when all the bugs have been fixed, the third-party app support has arrived, and some very smart engineers in Redmond have ironed out the physical kinks in this type of product which prevent it from being all that it can be. But that time isn't right now — and unfortunately for Microsoft, the clock is ticking.

 

Nice hardware but with some very deep flaws. The bolded seems like the common thread with all reviews. Tihs device was billed as a no compromise device that would allow you to ditch a separate laptop and tablet. But as many assumed, it introduced massive compromises for both form factors, making it not a great tablet, and pretty bad laptop replacement. 

post #64 of 122

The Surface tab reminds me of that old Seinfeld schtick about futons - "it's an uncomfortable couch, that turns into a bed you can't sleep on" (IIRC). The Surface seems to be a small laptop that's awkward to use, that turns into an expensive tablet that has no software.

 

What's the deal with that, huh?

post #65 of 122
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post
But yes since I am not native english speaking, my orthography is sometimes a bit ugly.

 

Hey, it's better than a LOT of native speakers would let on about theirs. lol.gif

post #66 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So the ARM version has USB ports and it can presumably let you install printers and other peripherals to it directly... but who is making these ARM versions of these peripheral drivers for Windows RT?
I think Dick Applebaum posted it about a week or two ago. I think it came at about 12GB which is why they have to start with 32GB for the base model.

 

The real question is who would want to?  Every printer I use has wireless capability.  Even people in our office with desktop computers don't even want wired keyboards or mice.  All these ports are just a waste of space and expense, and added weight for a device that is supposedly ultra-portable.

post #67 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So the ARM version has USB ports and it can presumably let you install printers and other peripherals to it directly... but who is making these ARM versions of these peripheral drivers for Windows RT?
I think Dick Applebaum posted it about a week or two ago. I think it came at about 12GB which is why they have to start with 32GB for the base model.

12GB seriously? even for the RT version.
That means the Full Windows 8 will take even more space. How on earth do they want to compete with apple with this ultimate fail??

I had no idea that things were that bad. Bad yes, but this??? OMG
A clear DOA if there is any.
post #68 of 122
94% of the Fortune 500 are 'trialling' or deploying iPads. I many cases this is user-demand driven and frustrating the IT departments because letting Apple into a MS-dominated environment isn't 'neat'.

I wonder how many of these IT departments are going to palm off this demand by saying "see, we've given you all iPads. They're just Microsoft ones!"
post #69 of 122

The funny thing is that a lot of PC fans on websites are dismissing the software limitations, saying "just wait for Surface Pro- that's what I'm going to get"...without recalling that Windows tablets have been available for a decade, and no one wanted them then.

 

I don't know what's going to change that this time around, especially since they'll probably be 1) underpowered (running "full Windows" on an Atom x86) and 2) more expensive than many other Windows laptops.

post #70 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Hmm.. found only a wierd twitter accound when searching "Miy badd".
So maybe no.
But yes since I am not native english speaking, my orthography is sometimes a bit ugly.

Lol you actually searched "Miy badd"? Now that's funny and even funnier is that you got any results.
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post #71 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretz View Post

94% of the Fortune 500 are 'trialling' or deploying iPads. I many cases this is user-demand driven and frustrating the IT departments because letting Apple into a MS-dominated environment isn't 'neat'.
I wonder how many of these IT departments are going to palm off this demand by saying "see, we've given you all iPads. They're just Microsoft ones!"

 

Windows RT doesn't fit into the enterprise any better.  In fact, it will be worse since there are already systems in place at most corporations to handle iPads.  Many companies have already developed their own custom apps for iPads.  In this case, the hurdle will be to support the Surface.

post #72 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153726/review-roundup-microsoft-surface-hardware-shines-but-software-is-a-letdown#post_2218828"]
When I need to do a lot of typing on my iPad, the Apple bluetooth keyboard works great, and it is a nice keyboard to type on too.

Those Microsoft keyboards aren't even real keyboards, and the keys have no travel, you might as well type on the screen, IMO.

Keyboard on screen takes half of your screen, and sits flat with rest of your screen. In addition, you cannot protect your screen with on-screen keyboard.

I think it is good concept. Plus, there is a bit thicker mechanical keyboard/cover option, if you really need it.
post #73 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post

Windows RT doesn't fit into the enterprise any better.  In fact, it will be worse since there are already systems in place at most corporations to handle iPads.  Many companies have already developed their own custom apps for iPads.  In this case, the hurdle will be to support the Surface.

Magic word here is MS Office. True, RT cannot be joined to the domain, and cannot be managed like Pro (or any current laptop/desktop). But for light collaboration - accessing SharePoint portal and reviewing/editing Office documents without limitations of Documents ToGo and likes, RT has potential to be really nice, a step above existing tablets.
post #74 of 122

Review roundup: Microsoft Surface hardware shines, but software is a letdown

 

It's majorcrap, anything they develop is a letdown.

post #75 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 
Pogue also had high praise for the keyboards Microsoft has made for the Surface.

 

Is this what passes for high praise?

 

Quote:
It’s an incredibly slick idea, but the keys don’t move. You’re pounding a flat surface. If you type too fast, the keyboard skips letters.

 

That doesn't sound like praise. I can't believe many are singing the praises of this awkward unsupported screen/KB combo with kickstand as anywhere near as good as a laptop. You need a lot of solid flat space to use, it isn't anywhere near as good as a real keyboard.  Really this seems to be a mediocre laptop replacement even before we get to the no software bit.

 

Then you notice most of these reviews don't mention using it as a tablet. Those that do seem to mention how awkward it is to hold, and how completely ridiculous it is in portrait mode.

 

Mediocre at everything and almost no software.  But the contruction of the case is very nice...

post #76 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq2 View Post

The funny thing is that a lot of PC fans on websites are dismissing the software limitations, saying "just wait for Surface Pro- that's what I'm going to get"...without recalling that Windows tablets have been available for a decade, and no one wanted them then.

I don't know what's going to change that this time around, especially since they'll probably be 1) underpowered (running "full Windows" on an Atom x86) and 2) more expensive than many other Windows laptops.

Think of it this way: RT is not out yet, and there are already 5000 apps (somewhere was mentioned that MS announced availability of 7000 apps just recently). Yes it is nothing compared to iPad apps, but. How many apps were available for iPad before it was released? I'd say it is a good start. Will MS manage to keep the momentum, well, that is completely different question.

Is initial choice good enough to make apps catalogue a non-issue or not, is relative. Since I am running Win 8 on my work PC, I've been checking on Metro apps frequently and I can say that majority I use frequently on my iPhone and Android tablet already exist: weather, comics book reader, news, maps, Skydrive, Popcorn (IMDB-like app), dictionary, unit converters,a few small games. And of course built in apps like contacts, calendar, email, browser... I'm yet to find DivX/XviD player... not much more. But then, I'm light on apps.

And then, there is Office. Very important, not as much for me as for my wife (which makes it even more important for me, actually). None of the Office suites she has tried so far were satisfying for her needs. This Office alone might turn to be reason enough to purchase RT device for us.
post #77 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Lol you actually searched "Miy badd"? Now that's funny and even funnier is that you got any results.
Always trying my best.
post #78 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So the ARM version has USB ports and it can presumably let you install printers and other peripherals to it directly... but who is making these ARM versions of these peripheral drivers for Windows RT?
I think Dick Applebaum posted it about a week or two ago. I think it came at about 12GB which is why they have to start with 32GB for the base model.

What Dick Applebaum posted was his (unsurprisingly) pessimistic guess.

All the pre-installed software takes about 10GB of storage space, leaving 20+GB for users.

It is not hard at all to find such info on the web. Like here:

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-surface-rt-32gb-has-20-gb-of-free-storage
post #79 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Think of it this way: RT is not out yet, and there are already 5000 apps (somewhere was mentioned that MS announced availability of 7000 apps just recently).

 

Low numbers means lots of rush jobs, so quality is not great:

 

Pogue:

The total in the United States is about 3,500 apps so far; many are bare-bones or junky.

 

Verge:

The fact that the strongest and most useful (and notably, most responsive) applications are relegated to the old environment gives me pause. Add to that the fact that many of the new apps seem incomplete or buggy — and you've got a problem.

 

The native email application, for instance, could be slow to update and unresponsive to touch on a regular basis. Other apps, both first and third-party, could be slow to open, then stall or crash altogether. Some 3D games, such as Rocket Riot, seemed fluid and natural, while others staggered along, seemingly struggling to pump out an acceptable frame rate.

 

Some well known apps, such as Cut The Rope, felt sluggish on the Surface (a problem I came across with a number of games). The Twitter app MetroTwit strangely stopped issuing notifications after I had left the app for a short period of time (though I did have better luck with Tweetro). The Amazon Kindle application had an extremely annoying bug which showed a jarring flash of a book graphic every time I turned a page, and would sometimes have to load for absurd amounts of time between page turns. Nearly every app I tried crashed completely at least once while I was testing the tablet, third and first-party.

 

 

This reminds me of the HP TouchPad software situation.

post #80 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Anandtech actually gave it a very strong review, and I have to say, of all the review sites out there, I value their (and Arstechnica) reviews the most. They're certainly not biased and aren't just chasing clicks (like Gizmodo ot The Verge).

 

They also have some decent background on what MS intends Surface to be, which is interesting. Basically, it is not intended to be an iPad competitor in the way you might imagine, but really an extension of the PC.

 

I wouldn't want one, and think MS is trying to do too many things with one device, but I think the Anandtech review is worth reading.

 

This is a "strong review"? (important stuff bolded by me)...

 

 

Quote:
It truly is something different. A unique perspective, not necessarily the right one, but a different one that will definitely resonate well with some (not all) users. After the past week I also understand Panos Panay’s desire for secrecy. From a distance, without using one, Surface is easy to judge. It’s a Windows tablet that doesn’t run most Windows applications, that doesn’t have most of the same new mobile apps that iOS and Android have, and it’s not priced aggressively enough to make those facts disappear.

Judging by the reviewers own words, it sounds like a damning review. Especially considering they did not pay their own money to review the unit. Real consumers pay real money and there isn't enough to attract real buyers with this hashed together POS. I predict the fast, spectacular and ignominious failure of the Surface RT model.

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