Review roundup: Microsoft Surface hardware shines, but software is a letdown - Page 3

That is fair.  But Office does not necessarily need to be tied to Windows RT, my prediction is that after the Surface crashes and burns in the marketplace, MS will release Office for the iPad, and probably sell 20 million copies, and actually make a good profit at it.  They should have just done this in the first place.

 

Agreed. Microsoft under Ballmer continues to make all the wrong moves.

 

I'm quite liking Windows 8 on the desktop now which is amazing to me. I thought it was impossible. I hated all the release previews more than I've ever hated any version of Windows before it (well, maybe with the exception of Windows ME). But I've been steadily using the RTM build more and more, with a copy of Paul Thurrott's Windows 8 Secrets book close at hand, and now I'm learning how to use Windows 8 properly. Most worrying I'm starting to enjoy the experience.

 

Of course Windows 8 is best design for touch devices so if I'm enjoying it on a desktop computer with traditional input methods, I think this can be quite strong competition for Apple moving forward in the future. They just need time to get developers building great applications for their platform. For some steady growth and adoption to attract them to the platform in the first place. And keeping Office away from iOS and as an exclusive for mobile Windows devices would also be a smart play at this point.

 

I definitely don't see corporations adopting Windows 8 at all on workstations. Employees are never going to want to learn all these new tricks to get the job done, and companies aren't going to be able to waste all that time and money training them. But on mobile devices absolutely if it talks to their key business applications Microsoft and its partners can sell a lot of Windows 8 devices.

It is mildly interesting how extreme Apple supporters quickly jump into denial/damage control mode, isn't it?

Every review I have seen is pretty impressed on hardware side, but conclusion here is "disappointing in every aspect". Sad.

5000 - 7000 apps on launch is likely the best any tablet had so far. True, iPad could run iPhone apps, but that was plain ugly, horrible experience.

MS Office. For number of people I know that alone will be worth the price.

Don't like cover and kickstand? No problem. There will be more RT tablets around, enough for everyone to satisfy form factor desires. Like this one: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6387/asus-vivotab-rt-review

It is also worth reading complete Anandtech review of Surface RT, rather than digging for single sentences, often out of content: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review

 

Talk about damning Microsoft with faint praise... 

 

Trust me, you will never see the iProp™.

 

That's such a pointless spec. 700,000 apps, of which almost 1,000 are flashlights, 50-100,000 are games with all the sophistication and complexity of Tic Tac Toe, and another quarter million are ad-laden "utilities" that exactly mirror functions already available in Settings. Big whoop.

 

Is it not finally time to evaluate app libraries on the QUALITY of the offerings rather than just sheer volume? I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.

 

EDIT: Upon further reading I see that most of the RT apps are crap too, so never mind.

Edited by v5v - 10/24/12 at 5:52pm

 

You all realize that these "first blush" reviews are as good as it gets?? Once people start learning more about the hardware, the OS and the Office app, all the warts will start to appear... it's gonna get ugly!

 

Still 175,000 useful apps compared to 10,000.

 

Actually not only is there few apps, the also appear to be of low quality. What makes you think they would be higher quality if they are just getting rolling?

 

 

I naively hoped that in the early stages we would see only product from serious developers who had been involved in testing the OS, rather than the flood of bottom feeders who churn out title after title of pointless flotsam to generate ad hits.

 

Turns out we may not be seeing much of the latter, but the former aren't exactly leading with their best work.

Just to start with--Rabbit_Coach: Whoever "corrected" you to "free reign" was wrong. It's "free rein", as in horse's rein. Instead of pulling on the reins to tell the horse where to go, you give them enough slack--free rein--that they can go wherever they want.

 

Main point: Let me get this straight--to get a Surface with 64 GB and the semi-usable keyboard you have to pay $830? Who's going to buy that when a 64 GB MacBook Air is $999, with a real keyboard and a real OS...and Hell, you can install Windows and run your precious MS Office.

 

You could also buy some of the feeble PC clones ("Ultrabooks--LOL") of the Air at about the same price, since Intel gives them the CPUs for half price.

Really? New York Times (Pogue) and Wall Street Journal (Mossberg) are chasing clicks, compared to, say, some tech blogs?

 

They're for grown-ups. Perhaps that's the reason you don't get it.

Hey, 2010 -- a lifetime ago in this business -- just called.

Laugh all you want but you got to appriciate the fact they are not just copying Apple literally! The keyboard is a great idea and the reviewers really seem to like it. The I/O ports are wonderful and yes very un-Apple like. Microsoft is just starting to build their own product line and identity here. The original iPhone was very limited in software and hardware too. it takes time.
Execution aside, let's welcome the effort in making a unique experience here, both hardware and software wise. I like it *because* its not what I am looking for (but thousands of others will love). It's not shitty iOS clone stuff.

I'm an Apple user, pretty much owning all iHardware, but to me Apple lately has become kinda predictable, kinda boring. What they do is very well executed but also very predictable and safe. Another commercial of high ups telling how 'thin and amazing' their new iStuff is, followed by extreme close ups of aluminum edges of whatever the hell they are trying to sell us now. Don't get me wrong - I'm in that queue to buy that stuff as its just very good, but let's welcome the competition and appriciate where Microsoft thinks different. Can you remember the times where Apple was advocating just that?

I wonder what it would be like to go to a web site's forum and find posts (positive or negative) that are based on actual use of a product vs. blind fanboyism? 

 

Right...like that will ever happen...

As you love your red bold I will use it too: There is actually a Remote Desktop app released by Microsoft for the ARM RT units in the App Store.

Someone else showed me today.

No! It is 'free rein' as in the reins of a horse, letting the horse run, not the reign of kings. You are correct with 'lose' and 'loose' however, although there's only about three people left in the world who seem to know it. There's no place in the English language for 'off of' either, but try telling the internet that.

 

Regarding the Surface: seven hours battery life for the ARM version suggests that it's going to be pretty horrible on the Atom version.

If you want to use it as a laptop but need a hard surface, just keep your favourite pron snap on the desktop.

It's actually free rein. But it's a common error.

According to Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/6

The "5000 app" critique is probably short hand for "we didnt' really have time to review it, but it fell short, and it was easier to bring out this poor comparison than to say that the native apps were unfinished, poor performing, and shoddy."

 

MS has botched a lot of interface ideas; "Metro, the Ribbon, to name two biggies."

 

 

I like the keyboard/case and the periphereals, but I have a  blue tooth keyboard that wraps around my iPad and I never use it. The screen keyboard is "good enough" for whenever I do use it. That's because the touch interface is just really good and you don't use these like NetBooks. Has Microsoft learned that, and do they have touch VERSIONS of their office apps or are we going to see their menu-laden monstrosities torment users where one finger covers 4 icons? Can anyone even get that little triangle that exposes the "advanced settings" that you and I use 90% of the time?

 

The add-ons are nice and all -- but people don't like to lug everything around. The iPad give a user a lot of freedom, and when I'm not using a laptop, I really don't want to recreate it on a utility device.

 

>> I'll stand by my prediction; in a year, it will be on Craigslist for $99.

 

Yes, it's about Santa letting the Reindeer guide the slay, not conduct a battle!

Think I'll wait for the brown keyboard to arrive.

 

I completely disagree about the neutrality of the two other sites you mentioned. They might be regarded as "neutral" from a brand-allegience point of view, but that doesn't mean they are without bias. Since they cater to tech enthusiast readership, they are going to share a particular viewpoint.  Tech enthusiasts value specs and benchmarks of components over everything else: especially over touchy-feely "liberal arts" aspects such as design ("it's just rounded rectangles"), or quality ("Apple over charges despite having the highest customer satisfaction ratings") or ease-of-use ("who needs that scrolling rubber band effect").

 

This is a reductive approach that makes sense in the PC world where all Windows boxes are more or less slapped together from the same parts, and they all run the same OS (Windows or Linux) so it was natural to evaluate the whole PC by evaluating its components (CPU, GPU, etc). In addition, tech enthusiasts also tend to care more about stuff like "choice" and "open source licensing" than the general public. For them, the very idea of a walled garden is worse than plethora of choices that's actually available in the garden. That is the bias of the tech enthusiast. You're not going to recognize this bias unless you are an outsider.

 

Apple has always tried to do the opposite of what tech enthusiasts do: view the product as more than the sum of its parts. Accordingly, Apple focuses on capabilities that ordinary (non-tech) users can relate to: FaceTime, iCloud, PhotoStream, AirPlay, Siri, etc. Tech enthusiasts are quick to dismiss this as marketing. They'd rather know that some 120mm fan can move 85 cubic feet of air per minute and reduce the temperature of a PC by 10 degrees C, so they can overclock their GeForce and run Crysis at 103 fps. No, tech sites are not "neutral" with regards to Apple by a long shot.

Thanks, I did look it up and I was mistaken. Apologies to Rabbit_Coach.

Lol Pogue and Mossberg will get plenty of clicks for merely picking their noses.

Microsoft. Die ALREADY!

 

Yeah! Facetime! Now I can show my wife the shelf at Safeway and she can tell me which item to buy. Oh wait, no WiFi at Safeway. Oh well.

 

iCloud! No more worrying about storage space for those documents! Hmmm, it's taking a while for that 2GB project to open... Might be a great idea for some people but probably not for those who use their Mac for content creation. Edit sessions run double-digit GB.

 

And without a hint of sarcasm I declare my LOVE for AirPlay. I just wish I could try it. Unfortunately my Mac is more than two years old.

 

I was also enamoured of the idea of iMessage. My family is crazy for text messaging and I hate typing on an iPhone so I was looking forward to using the Mac for messaging instead. Unfortunately it just doesn't work worth a damn. What they've PROMISED is exactly what I want, but it doesn't keep sync between the Mac and the phone and it constantly drops messages.

 

I'm honestly not trying to slam Apple here. What I *am* trying to say is that what is promised exceeds the actual utility of these value-added benefits in real life. I appreciate them, but no longer accept them as justification for substantially higher prices and margins than other suppliers.

I like your optimism. To transfer tablet market share numbers right to the work environment desktop market share. So you're after those winblows 90%.
Lol. Good luck.

The problem with all these toys IMO is that facebook&twitter&co. "business" chat all day long won't be enough to survive in so called western civilization. When these toys someday transform into usable toys, then I'm afraid winblows is here again with those 90%. Right now I can't even create and design a simple fcuking invoice with these toys.
Edited by mocseg - 10/25/12 at 4:00pm

What exactly would anyone need 175k applications for. How much of a usable software do you have installed? 20?

 

It really has nothing to do with Apple. I am long time Windows user (Since Win 3.1) and I have never owned an Apple product in my life, but I am thinking about an iPad Mini, but it isn't really a Surface competitor in any way. I think Win8/Metro/RT is one huge mess.

 

 

When the iPad launched it had Zero competitors. Which is massive difference than the situation today. So you can't look on the starting points as equivalent.  Office is a draw for some. But how many really want to run office on a netbook screen? Using a CPU that slower than a Netbooks?

 

 

Well this story is specific to Microsofts Surface RT, so complaints about the Rube Goldbergian keyboard setup are completely reasonably to make here. I am shocked that no review has had the balls to point out the absurdity of MS selling the equivalent of a Timex Sinclair Membrane keyboard for $100.  You could buy a Timex Sinclair computer for $100 in 1982, and yet that keyboard was widely ridiculed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timex_Sinclair_1000

 

 

 

Wow, that really reads like a Microsoft Press release, 8 or 9 paragraphs lauding Microsoft before we get to any actual content. Barely mentions typing on the membrane keyboard. But what is really missing is it sounds like there is no real interaction with the ecosystem at all. The conclusion seems like completely uncritical puff piece with no mention at all of the cons, and failing to consider that there are better options like a real laptop running full windows, or even a convertible laptop running real windows.

 

Now compare with Josh's Verge review. This isn't a cherry pick. I find Josh does the most comprehensive tech reviews.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review

 

Which one sounds like the reviewer actually spent a lot of time using the device and the ecosystem. Which conclusion actually mentions both the positives and negatives and which sounds like PR.

 

Are you… trying to claim that Microsoft is BETTER because they have LESS software?

 

Prototypes of the iPad that came out during the Apple/Samsung trial showed a model with a kickstand. Never say 'never' when it comes to Apple. One day video sucks on the small screen iPods and the next, it's a great feature.

 

The Safeway I shop at has free Wifi, and YES, FaceTime works on it.

 

No fair. I swear to science, that was my first thought when being introduced to FaceTime: "No more GUESSING which one she wants me to get, she can look for herself!" I wish like crazy MY Safeway had WiFi. You're lucky.

I'd even like Microsoft if they didn't release any software!

I think that's like asking if a music download/streaming site really needs to offer 10 million songs on offer vs. 1 million. The long tail is going to have things you want that you'd miss with a smaller selection, even if it seems insurmountable. You just don't know from which section your favorite apps come.


Not from Apple, anyway. Notice in the MS announcement PR and the ads, they didn't show the keyboard up close in use. They did show the click gimmick every instance they could.

Apple doesn't have a keyboard cover, but you can get better keyboards than sponge keys from third parties.


Only if Microsoft weeded out the lame ones more aggressively than Apple. I doubt they would do that.

Some parts of the app economy do annoy me though. I hate it when web sites try to pester me to use their app with a pop-up, but the app is really a cut-down or refactored version of their web site. And I chose the web site version for various reasons, often for a single feature they left out of the app.

Notice that it was a rejected concept. The brainstorming process involves working on a lot of ideas then refining down, so for every idea, ten to a hundred related ones are discarded.


There is some truth to that, but you are remembering a soundbite of a larger statement. If you go back to the keynote on the iPod Photo introduction, Jobs explained that they (Apple) are not ready for it, and hinted that they need to put together a video store infrastructure, and they're working on it. So they started with photos because most people own their own photos.


The other reviews said the software was sad. Heck, that's what the headline here says, "Hardware shines, but software is a letdown". The person that you replied to said the same thing! In other words, you're lying.

I find it amusing that MS is differentiating themselves using ideas they didn't know that Apple had considered but ultimately rejected.

 

Yes, I realize it was rejected. But it wouldn't surprise me to see something materialize if it's innovative and enhances the product's beauty and functionality.

 

On the video on small screens, Steve Jobs was quite clear about his thoughts on viewing video on small screens (and generally, adding 'needless' features to the iPods):

 

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/steve-jobs/

 

Check out his thoughts on book readers......ouch

That may or may not be the case. My point was more about the BYOD debate currently raging in those companies that are wedded to the Microsoft world. I see the Surface as a way of those companies being able to give - or allow users to have - a tablet device while retaining the 'purity' of the nothing-but-Microsoft mantra.

Impact: Microsoft will sell more Surfaces than they would if end users were left to make their own choices based on relative merit.