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Apple slims down iMac 40% with 'friction-stir welding' & ditching the disc drive - Page 5

post #161 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

You still use DVD's and buy CD's? Good for you, but most people don't.

I read this so often here and I would like to believe it. But then why we have the same big and small shops selling disks, CD's and DVD's, that we had ten years ago or more? I even saw recently many old big vinyl disks in a shop! No idea though who is buying them.

 

My feeling is that most people actually still do use disks for audio and video. I can tell the same for pretty much everyone I know personally. Apple pulled the plug of the optical drive not because most people do not use disks but because they can shape the future like they did with the floppy drive. Many people used floppy disks when Apple decided to abandon them.


Edited by PB - 11/6/12 at 3:23am
post #162 of 190
Originally Posted by PB View Post
But then why we have the same big and small shops selling disks, CD's and DVD's, that we had ten years ago or more?

 

Yes, no video rental stores have gone out of business or anything, relegating their former presence to vending machines.


The presence of physical media is far less than ten years ago.

 

I even saw recently many old big vinyl disks in a shop! No idea though who is buying them.

 

Hipsters.

 

…because they can shape the future like they did with the floppy drive. Many people used floppy disks when Apple decided to abandon them.

 

No one really used the floppy when Apple dumped it. It had LONG since been superseded by the CD in speed and capacity. Apple removing the floppy wasn't Apple "abandoning a much-needed format", it was Apple saying, "Know what? Screw this crap. This is crap, it's bad, and all it does is slow our machines down and stifle our creativity, since the tech isn't getting any smaller. We're getting rid of this crap."

 

And that's not just Apple fans saying this. Ask anyone and they'll acknowledge that floppies were way out of vogue by '97.

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post #163 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And that's not just Apple fans saying this. Ask anyone and they'll acknowledge that floppies were way out of vogue by '97.

Being "out of vogue" is very different from "no one used them". By the time the first floppy-less Mac hit the market, floppies were present and still used everywhere, along with the other storage media of that time.

 

They were estimated to be 5 billion out there in 1996. Of course people complained about reliability and capacity and wanted something better. And of course the decline started somewhere in the mid '90s. Apple saw the opportunity to shape a new future for personal computing by brutally scrapping the floppy drive in the iMac. They repeat it now with the optical drive.

post #164 of 190
Originally Posted by PB View Post
Being "out of vogue" is very different from "no one used them". By the time the first floppy-less Mac hit the market, floppies were present and still used everywhere, along with the other storage media of that time.

 

I can still buy VHS tapes. Guess that means people are still using VHS. Guess that means VCRs should still be made… 

 

Is it an amount that matters? Not really.

 

They were estimated to be 5 billion out there in 1996.

 

I'm sure that the greatest number to date of [insert anything whatsoever here] was reached right before [whatever succeeded it] was introduced, too.

 

Of course people complained about reliability and capacity and wanted something better.

 

And Apple gave it to them.

 

 And of course the decline started somewhere in the mid '90s.

 

So… 1996, then.

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post #165 of 190
If you have more than one computer, you likely can slave another computer's drive over the network.

I actually use an optical drive on occasion, but I've at least fully processed the fact they're going away. It's just a matter of time, if not this update, then it would have been the next. Movies don't matter to me on a computer as I use devices next to my TV, not my computer. Unless you're talking used, most of the time downloads are cheaper. There are audiophiles ripping to preferred settings, but they're a minority, and would be better served with a large desktop style external drive rather than the laptop optical drives.

Personally, I'd suggest an Apple certified/refurbished 2011 iMac and you'll almost certainly be ready to drop optical drive by the time you're ready to replace the iMac. I'm quite happy with my 2011 and I'll still use it as a primary work machine for a couple years at least.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/6/12 at 9:18am
post #166 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I can still buy VHS tapes. Guess that means people are still using VHS. Guess that means VCRs should still be made… 

 

Is it an amount that matters? Not really.

 

 

I'm sure that the greatest number to date of [insert anything whatsoever here] was reached right before [whatever succeeded it] was introduced, too.

 

 

And Apple gave it to them.

 

 

So… 1996, then.

Please, try to understand what I am saying and see the situation in the correct context and proportions.

post #167 of 190
Originally Posted by PB View Post
Please, try to understand what I am saying and see the situation in the correct context and proportions.


You're claiming that people still use spinning discs in the same (or more crucial) manner and with the same (or greater) frequency now as floppy disk users did when Apple removed those drives. 

 

The 'more crucial' and 'greater' can be discounted, as Apple got rid of the drives. At "best" it can be of equal importance. Therefore the question then turns to what percentage of the population this encompasses and why everyone else should be forced to still have these drives they don't need, don't use, don't want, and which stifle computer size.

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post #168 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If you have more than one computer, you likely can slave another computer's drive over the network.
I actually use an optical drive on occasion, but I've at least fully processed the fact they're going away. It's just a matter of time, if not this update, then it would have been the next. Movies don't matter to me on a computer as I use devices next to my TV, not my computer. Unless you're talking used, most of the time downloads are cheaper. There are audiophiles ripping to preferred settings, but they're a minority, and would be better served with a large desktop style external drive rather than the laptop optical drives.
Personally, I'd suggest an Apple certified/refurbished 2011 iMac and you'll almost certainly be ready to drop optical drive by the time you're ready to replace the iMac. I'm quite happy with my 2011 and I'll still use it as a primary work machine for a couple years at least.

Not sure if your answer is addressed to me or not. But if it is, I have to say that personally I am glad that the iMac lost the optical drive. This means one less mechanical component that is slow, noisy and prone to failure. I had a different opinion a couple of years ago but I changed my mind in the meantime. My daughter uses regularly disks (CD's and DVD's), like many times a week, but if I buy a new iMac she is not going to be affected by this because she has her own optical disk-capable Mac.

post #169 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Not sure if your answer is addressed to me or not. But if it is, I have to say that personally I am glad that the iMac lost the optical drive. This means one less mechanical component that is slow, noisy and prone to failure. I had a different opinion a couple of years ago but I changed my mind in the meantime. My daughter uses regularly disks (CD's and DVD's), like many times a week, but if I buy a new iMac she is not going to be affected by this because she has her own optical disk-capable Mac.

Not specifically addressed to you as an individual, though I addressed some themes you mentioned, that other people talked about as well.

I hear you on the reliability and speed. I had bought a buddy's iMac last year with a dying ODD. He upgraded to a newer model, I got a reasonable deal because of that, and I really haven't missed the drive. I told him it would probably cost $150 or more to replace the drive, considering the parts and labor.
post #170 of 190

Dear Apple,

 

On your website, it said the 21.5in model will be available in November. It has been November for 7 days now. Just saying.

 

Sincerely,

 

Pinkunicorn

post #171 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post

Dear Apple,

On your website, it said the 21.5in model will be available in November. It has been November for 7 days now. Just saying.

They can release on November 30 and still be available November. Just saying.

The fact that they don't even have a preorder page or announced CTO upgrade prices is unusual though.
post #172 of 190
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
The fact that they don't even have a preorder page or announced CTO upgrade prices is unusual though.

 

I'm really really bothered by the fact that you cannot buy a product called 'iMac' from Apple right now.


There will come a day when the iMac is discontinued. Eventually it won't exist anymore. But that's not this day. And when it can't even be preordered, I'm really wondering about Apple.

 

"Go where the money is" needs to shut up and take a hike. There has to be balance.

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post #173 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I'm really really bothered by the fact that you cannot buy a product called 'iMac' from Apple right now.


There will come a day when the iMac is discontinued. Eventually it won't exist anymore. But that's not this day. And when it can't even be preordered, I'm really wondering about Apple.

 

"Go where the money is" needs to shut up and take a hike. There has to be balance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGUNvIFTQw ?

post #174 of 190
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGUNvIFTQw ?

 

THAT'S WHERE THE WORD ORDER CAME FROM! It was nagging at me. It felt right to write it like that in this context, but I was thinking I'd heard it somewhere… lol.gif

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post #175 of 190

Other than the "Oh! Wow! Cool!" factor, I just don't see why anyone would care about this reduction in thickness of a *desktop* computer! It's not like it was 3 feet thick and they knocked it down to 3 inches here - as happened with CRT TVs and flat panels. The hoopla over this just confuses me. I guess if you mainly stand around and stare at it during parties in your Malibu beach house, it is an important improvement. But for those who actually use the thing, who cares?!

 

Again, I'm just glad that I bought my iMac last year. Not being able to easily access the RAM would cheese me off more than them giving it the Gucci treatment.
 

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post #176 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post

Other than the "Oh! Wow! Cool!" factor, I just don't see why anyone would care about this reduction in thickness of a *desktop* computer! It's not like it was 3 feet thick and they knocked it down to 3 inches here - as happened with CRT TVs and flat panels. The hoopla over this just confuses me. I guess if you mainly stand around and stare at it during parties in your Malibu beach house, it is an important improvement. But for those who actually use the thing, who cares?!

Many care, outside of the U.S. of course. For example, if I was going to buy it, I would have to find a way of transportation since I don't have a car. This weight reduction comes very handy. You can tell me that in this case, I can order it online. Even so, less weight means a more friendly device for the economy and the environment.

 

Plus, I don't have a TV in my home. If I was to watch a movie on the iMac, I would have probably to move it occasionally around the house. Again the lighter iMac is much better suited for this.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post

Again, I'm just glad that I bought my iMac last year. Not being able to easily access the RAM would cheese me off more than them giving it the Gucci treatment.

You must talk about the 21.5" model, since in the 27" one even a small child can add memory.

post #177 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Many care, outside of the U.S. of course. For example, if I was going to buy it, I would have to find a way of transportation since I don't have a car. This weight reduction comes very handy. You can tell me that in this case, I can order it online. Even so, less weight means a more friendly device for the economy and the environment.

 

Plus, I don't have a TV in my home. If I was to watch a movie on the iMac, I would have probably to move it occasionally around the house. Again the lighter iMac is much better suited for this.

 

You must talk about the 21.5" model, since in the 27" one even a small child can add memory.


Well, you seem to have some rather unique requirements for your iMac. I'm not sure how many people carry their computers from room to room to watch TV on it though. So I still don't see the weight and thickness reductions as being things that would matter to most. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it. And the same is especially true when talking about the one time trip of carrying it into your home if it hasn't been shipped to your door.

 

And no, I'm not talking so much about the 21.5" iMac. On that one, from what I've read, the RAM is nearly impossible for the average person to access. On the 27" model (which I have), the RAM in the new one is apparently harder (though not impossible) to access than on the older one. So that's why I said that it wasn't easily accessible.

 

They're good machines though. But for my needs, the weight and the thickness wouldn't matter one bit. Being able to easily get to the RAM and having an optical drive would matter much, much more. Especially for business use, I couldn't see myself buying the new one.

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post #178 of 190

I recall when the first Macintosh was released.  Everybody went crazy complaining about the included mouse; "why do you want that thingy to do whatever?"  The mouse went on to become standard for all computers.  Then Apple deleted the floppy and lots of people went crazy.  Now they've deleted the optical and people will go crazy.

 

The pattern here is that Apple will be Apple, their new designs will make some people go crazy, they will sell like crazy and life will go on.

 

Times change.  Apple likes to be at the forefront.  That means some of their customers will feel squeezed from time to time.  That's how things are.  Think of all the people who have accessories for their now old iPads, etc. when the new Lightening adapter was released.  They're stuck in a tight spot.  

 

Again, things go on.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #179 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I recall when the first Macintosh was released.  Everybody went crazy complaining about the included mouse; "why do you want that thingy to do whatever?"  The mouse went on to become standard for all computers.  Then Apple deleted the floppy and lots of people went crazy.  Now they've deleted the optical and people will go crazy.

The pattern here is that Apple will be Apple, their new designs will make some people go crazy, they will sell like crazy and life will go on.

Times change.  Apple likes to be at the forefront.  That means some of their customers will feel squeezed from time to time.  That's how things are.  Think of all the people who have accessories for their now old iPads, etc. when the new Lightening adapter was released.  They're stuck in a tight spot.  

Again, things go on.

Like, FireWire, U mean?
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/92061/jobs-responds-to-outrage-over-macbooks-missing-firewire
post #180 of 190
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Think of all the people who have accessories for their now old iPads, etc. when the new Lightening adapter was released.  They're stuck in a tight spot.  

 

I'm bugged by how few accessories that use it are out.

 

I mean, do these companies NOT want to make money? It's the frigging holiday season. GET YOUR PRODUCTS OUT.

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post #181 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I'm bugged by how few accessories that use it are out.

 

I mean, do these companies NOT want to make money? It's the frigging holiday season. GET YOUR PRODUCTS OUT.

 

 

Very true.

 

Same for Thunderbolt. 

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #182 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


Very true.

Same for Thunderbolt. 

I think CES 2013 could be an indicator of the health of Thunderbolt. If we see a fair number of Thunderbolt products for both Mac OS and Windows it could mean that it's ramping up but we need to remember it's only been out of contract with Apple for less than a year now and Windows-based machines that would require a Thunderbolt connector don't typically sell in quantity the way Macs do. There is simply no reason for a $400 PC to have Thunderbolt. It doesn't mean it won't be the de facto but it's still in its infancy.

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post #183 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think CES 2013 could be an indicator of the health of Thunderbolt. If we see a fair number of Thunderbolt products for both Mac OS and Windows it could mean that it's ramping up but we need to remember it's only been out of contract with Apple for less than a year now and Windows-based machines that would require a Thunderbolt connector don't typically sell in quantity the way Macs do. There is simply no reason for a $400 PC to have Thunderbolt. It doesn't mean it won't be the de facto but it's still in its infancy.

I expect better support than what we're seeing though. There's probably 10+ million Macs with Thunderbolt, so while it's small subset of the PC market, that's still a largely untapped and premium market relative to how half-hearted these peripheral companies are taking it.
post #184 of 190

With the newest docks coming out TB might not move that fast.

 

http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/

 

http://www.belkin.com/us/F4U055-Belkin/p/P-F4U055

 

That said, I have two TB external HD's and they are tons faster than FW800.  I would never dream of going back to USB, USB3 or FW800.  Hopefully, lots of people catch on and demand more products.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #185 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

With the newest docks coming out TB might not move that fast.

http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/

http://www.belkin.com/us/F4U055-Belkin/p/P-F4U055

That said, I have two TB external HD's and they are tons faster than FW800.  I would never dream of going back to USB, USB3 or FW800.  Hopefully, lots of people catch on and demand more products.

Are you using SSD or RAID on your Thunderbolt? I wanted to buy a TB drive but I didn't see the point in spending a lot more for no benefit.
post #186 of 190

Both are set up as RAIDs.

 

WD 6TB dual drives.

 

Can transfer files in half the time compared to FW800, which adds up over a week/month/year.  These are "green" so they aren't as fast as they could be.  I'm pretty happy, though.  They can also be a little noisy but that will be taken care of next week with a new shelf (the one they're on now is thin and tinny sounding as it sits on a wire rack).  Too bad the cable is only 2 meters.

 

The drives don't power down, though, and there is no power switch, so I have them on a switched extension cord.

 

The new VeliciRaptor drives look real fast.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #187 of 190

I am a multimedia student.  I use USB drives for most backups, but when backing up important files that I don't want corrupted by viruses, I prefer to use single write DVDs.  When handing up large video assignments one uses DVDs.  This is a requirement of TAFE.

I use CDs.  Our family has a large library of CDs and vinyls.  A lot of the music our family owns is not available in iTunes.  When one purchases electronic goods, one rents, rather than owns the music.  One cannot give such music to other family members.  If one owns a CD, owns the music and can give that to someone else, if one choses to do so.  Purchased CDs are safe from viral attack.

While I appreciate that an external drive has advantages, e.g. if the drive fails one can replace it, without having to send the entire computer to the repair shop.  I do like the simplicity of using a single device rather than cluttering up the desk with a variety of peripherals.  In my experience the internal DVD drive has never failed and our current iMac is over six years old.

If Apple want to take out the DVD drive then one would hope they would increase the number of USB slots, but I don't find this to be the case. As a multimedia student I use 2TB drives (for large video files), I can't always operate these drives when they are plugged into USB hubs and often have to insert them directly into the computer drive.  This makes backups a trial as there are not enough slots to insert the backup drives.

I tried using a bluetooth keyboard for a number of years, but the batteries had to be replaced nearly every month - I kept a record for well over a year.  One month I had to replace the batteries twice.  The Windows machine that sat next to the iMac only required battery changes every six months.  Not a good advertisement for Apple bluetooth keyboards.  In frustration I purchased a new bluetooth keyboard, but the battery usage did not improve.  Finally, I purchased a standard USB keyboard and mouse.  This unfortunately blocks one of the USB slots.

I use a range of Adobe software including Encore.  This generates DVDs as an output.  Sending the output to an external drive is slower and could cause the output to fail.  

While I appreciate the appearance of the thinner iMac, I would prefer to have an internal DVD drive.  The slightly fatter machine adds nothing to the footprint but increases the reliability of the DVD drive.

Mary Burnadette

post #188 of 190
Originally Posted by Mary Burnadette View Post

When one purchases electronic goods, one rents, rather than owns the music.

 

Mmm… no. If you have the file locally you own it just as much as you own a CD. That’s why we keep all of our libraries local.

 
One cannot give such music to other family members. If one owns a CD, owns the music and can give that to someone else, if one choses to do so.

 

You can’t legally do that with a CD, anyway.

 
Purchased CDs are safe from viral attack.


You have a Mac. You’re safe from viruses in the first place. Your purchases in iTunes can’t be “deleted” by any means, so any form of malware couldn’t do anything to your cloud content at all.

 
As a multimedia student I use 2TB drives (for large video files), I can't always operate these drives when they are plugged into USB hubs and often have to insert them directly into the computer drive.

 

You just need a powered hub, or one that can handle the higher voltage that Apple’s USB ports can output!

 

USB is a stupid, fickle thing.

 
I tried using a bluetooth keyboard for a number of years, but the batteries had to be replaced nearly every month

 

The Apple keyboard or some other one? Get the Apple keyboard and their rechargeable battery set. It’s a great combination.

 
Not a good advertisement for Apple bluetooth keyboards.

 

Oh, you did. That’s nonstandard behavior.

 

…and could cause the output to fail.  


Sounds like Adobe’s problem.

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post #189 of 190
Yeah, copyright law doesn't allow you share copies of a CDs or share rips of a CD legally. Even though it's illegal to share iTunes audio tracks to other people, it's easy to do because they aren't encrypted anymore, they haven't been for years.

I find I need an external hub no matter how many internal USB ports are available. I don't remember a drive having trouble unless it's bus powered on an unpowered or underpowered hub. I go as direct as I can, but drives can run on a hub.

I have an external optical drive that runs faster than what's built into a 2011 iMac. It's not even one of the big desktop based monster drives, just a portable external.
post #190 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Burnadette View Post
 

I am a multimedia student.  I use USB drives for most backups, but when backing up important files that I don't want corrupted by viruses, I prefer to use single write DVDs.  

 

Unless you're using archival quality DVDs the shelf life of that backup may be as short as 2-5 years.

 

"CD/DVD experiential life expectancy is 2 to 5 years even though published life expectancies are often cited as 10 years, 25 years, or longer. However, a variety of factors discussed in the sources cited in FAQ 15, below, may result in a much shorter life span for CDs/DVDs. Life expectancies are statistically based; any specific medium may experience a critical failure before its life expectancy is reached. Additionally, the quality of your storage environment may increase or decrease the life expectancy of the media. We recommend testing your media at least every two years to assure your records are still readable."

 

http://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/initiatives/temp-opmedia-faq.html

 

That said, the recommendation is to refresh your digital archives every 5 years anyway.

 

Quote:
When handing up large video assignments one uses DVDs.  This is a requirement of TAFE. 

 

A multimedia student should be aware that the 1080p workflow is now pretty standard and that "large video assignments" won't fit on a DVD unless your definition of "large" isn't.
 
Quote:
While I appreciate that an external drive has advantages, e.g. if the drive fails one can replace it, without having to send the entire computer to the repair shop.  I do like the simplicity of using a single device rather than cluttering up the desk with a variety of peripherals.  In my experience the internal DVD drive has never failed and our current iMac is over six years old.

 

The internal drive is abysmally slow in comparison to external drives and won't burn blu-ray.  If I had to burn discs on a regular basis I'd get a quality external blu-ray burner.

 

Quote:
 If Apple want to take out the DVD drive then one would hope they would increase the number of USB slots, but I don't find this to be the case. As a multimedia student I use 2TB drives (for large video files), I can't always operate these drives when they are plugged into USB hubs and often have to insert them directly into the computer drive.  This makes backups a trial as there are not enough slots to insert the backup drives.

 

The problem with the iMac isn't that there aren't enough USB ports but that they are located behind the effing screen.  Which is just dandy if you don't plug stuff into them on a regular basis but a royal pain in the arse if you do.  That SDXC slot is nearly effing useless as well if your desk (and iMac) is against a wall.

 

There are 4 USB 3 ports on the back of the iMac.  How many do you need anyway?  If you need to plug in 5 external USB drives at one time you're doing it wrong.

 

Quote:
I tried using a bluetooth keyboard for a number of years, but the batteries had to be replaced nearly every month - I kept a record for well over a year.  One month I had to replace the batteries twice.  The Windows machine that sat next to the iMac only required battery changes every six months.  Not a good advertisement for Apple bluetooth keyboards.  In frustration I purchased a new bluetooth keyboard, but the battery usage did not improve.  Finally, I purchased a standard USB keyboard and mouse.  This unfortunately blocks one of the USB slots.

 

I use the logitech K760 that is solar powered.  In my Apple keyboard I used eneloops and didn't worry about it and I didn't replace the battery every month either.

 

Quote:
I use a range of Adobe software including Encore.  This generates DVDs as an output.  Sending the output to an external drive is slower and could cause the output to fail.  

 

First, Adobe products in general have stupid issues with external drives that have little to do with the external drives and a lot more with Adobe.  Encore, Premiere, etc all seem to suck because they query at the OS level and not at the hardware level.

 

Second Encore can write ISOs.  Folks that uses Encore a lot will write to ISO and burn later because Encore is not reliable in generating media everyone can read even when it works.  imgburn is one of the more common burning apps used.  

 

You should author to iso anyway because even if Encore didn't suck at burning bad media still occurs and you can always toss an iso on a usb stick if you have to.  Double clicking on it should mount it in OSX and you can play it in a pinch.

 

Third, I have found that external drives work better.  At least decent external drives.

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