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Apple slims down iMac 40% with 'friction-stir welding' & ditching the disc drive - Page 2

post #41 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

The next question is, how far can they take this design?  It won't get thinner anytime soon.  What is the iMac going to look like in 5 years?  

The 2018 iMac will carry warning stickers because the "cutting edge design" will really have a cutting edge. 

 

Forget "refrigerators with toasters." 2018 will be computers with meat slicers. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #42 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

... and two FireWire 800 ports. Well, ten, if you count all the bandwidth. 

 

Har de har har.  

 

The new iMac actually has *zero* firewire ports (800 or 400).  I'm kind of amazed (well not really considering the author) that the article goes on and on about all the shiny-glowy nice bits but doesn't mention this very relevant fact.  

 

There are probably 5 or 6 hundred iMacs within a short walk from my office and all of them use/need firewire ports either for video editing or some kind of backup.  They are generally replaced hundreds at a time on a bi-yearly basis.  Not having Firewire is indeed going to be a problem.  

 

I understand that Apple is likely doing this to push the drive makers to step up to the Thunderbolt plate and produce some good cheap backup drives that use the interface (which is a very good thing), however ... there aren't going to be a heck of a lot of Thunderbolt enabled video cameras any time soon so there will be buckets and buckets of adapters that need to be bought.  

post #43 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Typical response from an Apple Fanboi drinking the Apple Kool-Aid.  Care to give a reason?  Did the optical drive in the previous models ruin your life of computing?  Apple took away many features from the 2011 model, but still charges the same premium price...but I guess you are okay with that too?  I don't want an external drive sitting on my desk when a DESKTOP computer should retain an optical drive that many people still use today.  Software still ships on CD/DVD, DiskWarrior can only be upgraded by creating a new DVD, DiskWarrior must be booted from a DVD or other drive to make repairs, many DVD games require the disc to be in the drive to play.  People still buy music CDs and rip in their format of choice.  I backup my software installers to DVD, so they don't take up valuable disc space.  Many reasons to include the optical drive, but no valid reason to remove the drive from a desktop computer, especially when they don't lower the price for removing the feature.

A slot loading internal replacement drive costs $100. An external DVD writer $30, albiet a tray loader.

Backups are best done to external hard drives. Optical is just a needlessly slow, small and wasteful way to keep a backup. I keep a cold spare bootable backup drive. Probably a lot faster than writing to and booting from an optical disc.

I just don't think the DIY CD rippers are notable portion of the market, I bet they fit under the margin of error.

I don't think I use a single Mac program that was delivered on optical disc. Even the OS is downloaded now, which I keep a backup installer on USB stick.

I have three discs for my current Windows software, the OS (now downloadable legally), CAD/CAM software (also downloadable legally) and an illustration program (don't know, I'm still using an older version).

I've argued in the distant past that Apple prematurely rushed to drop the floppy, and I still think that was a bit true, there were no USB sticks, or other good way to move data at the time. But here, I think it's about time to turn the page, internet downloads are fast, we have USB sticks, SD cards, external hard drives, etc. If someone doesn't take steps to push optical out, it's not going to go away, people and businesses will cling to those formats out of habit rather than good practice. If optical doesn't already look like a vestigial organ now, it will in three years.
Edited by JeffDM - 10/24/12 at 3:10pm
post #44 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Everything you said the iMac should have are reasons why you are not the target customer. Of course this is a consumer machine. It's the iMac. It always has been and everything to it always being geared toward the average user who doesn't use CDs and doesn't ever service their 'PC's' HDD, RAM, GPU, etc.

Who are you to say that the average user doesn't use CDs or service their own computer?  Do you think iMac users are retards?  Your comment only proves that you are a retard for making such an assumption.  Safe to assume that the next Mac Pro won't have an optical drive because according to Apple, Pro users don't use optical discs either.  Then you little fanbois will bitch and complain because Apple removed the optical drive from a "Pro" machine.  Idiots.

post #45 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


A slot loading internal replacement drive costs $100. An external DVD writer $30, albiet a tray loader.
Backups are best done to external hard drive. I keep a cold spare bootable backup drive. Probably a lot faster than writing to and booting from an optical disc.
I just don't think the DIY rippers are notable portion of the market.
I don't think I use a single Mac program that was delivered on optical disc. Even the OS is downloaded now, which I keep a backup installer on USB stick.
I have three discs for Windows software, the OS (now downloadable), CAD/CAM software (also downloadable) and an illustration program (don't know).

Go buy Microsoft Office or Adobe Creative Suite and let us know what format it uses inside the box (DVD).  Internal slot load drives are $59 from OWC.  Get your facts right.  I am not talking about regular backups.  I don't need to backup my downloaded installers over and over again with Time Machine.  I can back those up once to DVD and keep them off the hard drive, and off my Time Machine backups.

post #46 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Go buy Microsoft Office or Adobe Creative Suite and let us know what format it uses inside the box (DVD).

Exactly, dinosaurs. Adobe was always behind the curve. Slowest to move to OS X, slowest to Intel, slowest to downloads, you get the idea. Using MS Office is like celebrating being a dinosaur.
Quote:
Internal slot load drives are $59 from OWC.  Get your facts right.

OK, I was reading the optical drives from when I was looking to replace one on a Mac laptop. On OWC, those really are $99.
Quote:
I am not talking about regular backups.  I don't need to backup my downloaded installers over and over again with Time Machine.

I don't think you understand how Time Machine works. It's not making a lot of copies of the same file.
Quote:
I can back those up once to DVD and keep them off the hard drive, and off my Time Machine backups.

I'm sure you'll save a lot of time, space and money with an external drive. Not to mention having to inventory them. But then, most installers barely take up any space. I've got 5GB or so1 of Mac software installers, that's negligible, hardly worth wasting plastic over and over.

You could also tell Time Machine to not archive your installer folder. All your reasons seem pretty contrived and possibly OCD.
Edited by JeffDM - 10/24/12 at 3:54pm
post #47 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Everything you said the iMac should have are reasons why you are not the target customer. Of course this is a consumer machine. It's the iMac. It always has been and everything to it always being geared toward the average user who doesn't use CDs and doesn't ever service their 'PC's' HDD, RAM, GPU, etc.

You are absolutely correct.  Until yesterday, though, the iMac made an excellent office pc despite it's consumer lineage.  And that's a bit of a problem for me.  I don't need to upgrade graphics cards and cpu's at my office, but hard drives and ram are definitely things that become "too small" or obsolete (or break) with time.  What in the Apple lineup fits that bill now other than a Mac Pro?  And a Mac Pro is way too much computer for my needs at work.

 

Maybe Apple knows that, in reality, the office pc user that would get an imac probably has a bit more money in the bank to spend on pc's and doesn't mind upgrading them every couple of years?  I can afford a new iMac at that rate, but really don't want to spend the money.  I'd be happy using my 2007 iMac for a few more years if it wasn't for the fact that the graphics drivers haven't worked since 10.6.2. . . 

post #48 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Who are you to say that the average user doesn't use CDs or service their own computer?  Do you think iMac users are retards?  Your comment only proves that you are a retard for making such an assumption.  Safe to assume that the next Mac Pro won't have an optical drive because according to Apple, Pro users don't use optical discs either.  Then you little fanbois will bitch and complain because Apple removed the optical drive from a "Pro" machine.  Idiots.


Way to go to make your point by hurling insults.  Pretty much invalidates anything you said.

This is the reality.  Most folks don't use CD's, and most folks don't service their own computers.  That's the hard truth reality.  It's what I see everywhere and I'm in IT.  No one wants to deal with it.  They send their PC's to someone that knows what they are doing.  Most people will never open their computers to upgrade memory, hardware, etc.  It IS what is going on.

You may not like it but you really do not represent the Joe Consumer.  You make it sound like Apple is insulting you by not tailoring their products to the 1% of people that do what you do.  I service my own machines and I've opened up my 2009 iMac just because I wanted to.  Sure it's not as simple like a regular PC but if you're as technically-inclined as you imply your self to be, what's an extra 5-10 minutes to open an iMac case?  If you do it for a business, you just past that extra labor time to your customer.

What Solips said is true.  I'm not EVEN going to waste my time to google for you the direction that PC-tech is going.  CD-tech is dead.  A cheap USB stick holds a heck of a lot more than a CD does.  If grandma who is still set in her ways wants to see the family kids on a CD for her 1990's computer, either tell her to go to Facebook, or buy a $40 burner (or $79 superdrive) for those 1-2 times a year you'll need it and be done with it.

Technology is not going to be put on hold because you have to have an aging, mechanical device in your computer.  Sorry to be the one to have to tell you that.

post #49 of 190

so a thin feature is a benefits how?  it's a feature with no benefit, but all the pundits jump on the thickness of a computer or cell phone like it's the holy grail.  make them all, including my iPad, an 1/8 thicker, increase battery life or reduce the cost, and get on with a feature that has a tangible benefit. 

post #50 of 190

I think this is the most significant iMac since the original. The original iMac was a computer people wanted because it looked great. This is the first flat panel iMac that really has the same aesthetic impact in my opinion. Up until now they were merely functional. I want one.

post #51 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I think this is the most significant iMac since the original. The original iMac was a computer people wanted because it looked great. This is the first flat panel iMac that really has the same aesthetic impact in my opinion. Up until now they were merely functional. I want one.

 

I'd agree with that.

 

The design of the 'flat' iMac has come of age.  It really is 'flat' (near as dammit) now...  And it's a dramatic design.  Eye arresting.

 

It's quite telling we're celebrating 14 years of the iMac.  Phil put it himself...that the original iMac kick started the 'new' Apple.  Everything they've done since...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #52 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Who are you to say that the average user doesn't use CDs or service their own computer?  Do you think iMac users are retards?  Your comment only proves that you are a retard for making such an assumption.  Safe to assume that the next Mac Pro won't have an optical drive because according to Apple, Pro users don't use optical discs either.  Then you little fanbois will bitch and complain because Apple removed the optical drive from a "Pro" machine.  Idiots.

Yikes!

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #53 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


A slot loading internal replacement drive costs $100. An external DVD writer $30, albiet a tray loader.
Backups are best done to external hard drives. Optical is just a needlessly slow, small and wasteful way to keep a backup. I keep a cold spare bootable backup drive. Probably a lot faster than writing to and booting from an optical disc.
I just don't think the DIY CD rippers are notable portion of the market, I bet they fit under the margin of error.
I don't think I use a single Mac program that was delivered on optical disc. Even the OS is downloaded now, which I keep a backup installer on USB stick.
I have three discs for my current Windows software, the OS (now downloadable legally), CAD/CAM software (also downloadable legally) and an illustration program (don't know, I'm still using an older version).
I've argued in the distant past that Apple prematurely rushed to drop the floppy, and I still think that was a bit true, there were no USB sticks, or other good way to move data at the time. But here, I think it's about time to turn the page, internet downloads are fast, we have USB sticks, SD cards, external hard drives, etc. If someone doesn't take steps to push optical out, it's not going to go away, people and businesses will cling to those formats out of habit rather than good practice. If optical doesn't already look like a vestigial organ now, it will in three years.

 

What Jeff said.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #54 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You aren't watching Blu-ray at this point? You aren't using a separate TV/monitor for this function?

 

No, I might be in the minority, but I hate Blu-Ray and I have no plans to buy an HDTV. I generally find nothing of interest on cable, so I don't have that either.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #55 of 190
The fact that you can't easily add more ram is a deal breaker for me, especially since Apple charges ridiculous prices to add more when you're configuring it. I bought my mid 2011 iMac with 4gb of RAM and then purchased another 8gb myself for $50. Apple would have wanted $200 for that. Apple knows people do that so rather than lower their price on memory to a reasonable amount they took the option away to add it ourselves. To me that is just a cheap move on their part. With all their engineering ability don't try to tell me they couldn't put a door with two screws on the back.1oyvey.gif

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post #56 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Who are you to say that the average user doesn't use CDs or service their own computer?  Do you think iMac users are retards?  Your comment only proves that you are a retard for making such an assumption.  Safe to assume that the next Mac Pro won't have an optical drive because according to Apple, Pro users don't use optical discs either.  Then you little fanbois will bitch and complain because Apple removed the optical drive from a "Pro" machine.  Idiots.

Thanks Ann for your psychoanalytic skills.

 

No, Apple says the _average_ (say +- 2 sigmas to the mean) user does not have the tools, the skills nor the know-how to properly service their own computer.  And they build a computer and an retail service ecosystem (applecare and genius bars) to support that.

 

The average car driver does not service their own car, beyond consumables.  

 

As for CDs, Apple is selling an Ecosystem, and that ecosystem does not include CDs.  They'll sell you a CD player, but they won't build it into their base consumer machines.

 

Heck, You don't see McDonalds selling you ovens, do you?   The average consumer at McDonalds can cook, but since McDonalds doesn't have a 'take home and heat menu' there is no reason to sell you a device that let's you buy frozen pizza from Safeway.   Doesn't make sense.

 

As for the mac Pro, let's just assume Apple will disappoint someone somehow when (if)  that's updated

post #57 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Ars posted the same picture and it is the 21.5 model.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/10/hands-on-with-the-thumb-able-ipad-mini-and-the-ultrathin-imac/

The 27s are not even in production yet, since they won't be available until December.
Ok so then we don't know what they look like as no one has seen them yet.
post #58 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Everything you said the iMac should have are reasons why you are not the target customer. Of course this is a consumer machine. It's the iMac. It always has been and everything to it always being geared toward the average user who doesn't use CDs and doesn't ever service their 'PC's' HDD, RAM, GPU, etc.

 

What then is a consumer machine or an average user?  Mine runs 4 operating systems and programs such as Mathematica, which often betters so called high-end workstations in Wolfram's own performance tests.  How is some guy in a law office not an average user... because he needs an optical drive?  I suppose that those who run boxes in which they can tweak every little aspect of hardware think that they are not an average user but I'm sure too that most, if not all, of their computer use is no more than average in light of the iMac's capabilities.  

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #59 of 190
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
The 27s are not even in production yet, since they won't be available until December.

 

Which you know, because you work at Apple.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #60 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

This is a consumer machine?  I don't know many consumers in this day & age that have a minimum $1,299 to just drop on a computer.  This looks targeted more at the prosumer market than anything.

 

Fortunately, Apple has better grasp of what consumers are willing to pay for a desktop computer...

 

 

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post #61 of 190
Worst iMac update ever.
Yes, the Ivy Bridge processor is certainly better. (Though, fact that Intel uses lower effeciency chip-to-heatsink technology may be a future disaster for the hot running iMacs.)

Removing user upgradable RAM from the 21-inch model. Bad move.

Making the HD drives to be 5400 RPM, where the previous model had 7200 RPM - bad move.
It seems that they have switched to 2.5-inch laptop form factor HD drives (I am guessing).
A change that no Mac article has even had the guts to mention so far.
Seems most of the media articles are stumbling over each other in their rush to be able to drink the Apple kool-aid and "ooh" and "ahh" at it.

Removing the CD/DVD drive. Bad move, in my opinion, since I, and the folks I know with iMacs still use their CDs and DVDs to play or import music and video.
Now these users either give that media up or go out and buy a third party portable CD/DVD player writer. Thereby cluttering up the desk even more. There goes the questionable Apple goal to have a clean look. Clean maybe, but impractical.
FYI, I have confirmed that, at least in my use, a generic PC Samsung CD/DVD USB writer can be used to install software on the MacBook Air, and presumably any disc-less Mac.

Removing FireWire. Bad move.
Apple was a primary developer in the FireWire protocol. And being bus-managed, was inherently faster and lighter on the computer than USB 2, as all the data transfers did not have to go through the CPU. So now they dump FireWire and go all USB (v3) only.
Now that they sucked (or is that suckered) us into buying our external HDs (and cameras) with FireWire data ports, we have no way to use them any more. Unless they were Combo devices, in which case we will be saddles with the poorer performing USB 2 cable and data transfer.

Yes, if you are an Apple Fan (TM), you will love the new iMac, since everything Apple does is by definition 'good.'
But if you are someone who has invested money in various FireWire hardware over the years, it's just Apple's way of laughing at you for sending them your money, and now will have to spend more.
The company is becoming, in my opinion, more arrogant and disrespectful of their existing customer base.

New advertising slogan: "Thinner. Lighter. Shinier. Because those are always better. And does less with the stuff you have. Obsoletes your existing hardware. And makes it safer because it's darn near impossible to do user-upgrades. You'll love buying all new stuff from us at time of order!"
The Universe is Intelligent and Friendly
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post #62 of 190
Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post
Removing the CD/DVD drive. Bad move, in my opinion…

 

Yours and ten others. No one else cares. Buy a $25 external drive.

 

Removing FireWire. Bad move.
Apple was a primary developer in the FireWire protocol. And being bus-managed, was inherently faster and lighter on the computer than USB 2, as all the data transfers did not have to go through the CPU. So now they dump FireWire and go all USB (v3) only.

 

IF ONLY APPLE HAD A NEWER, FASTER PORT THAT COULD NOT ONLY REPLACE FIREWIRE IN ALL INSTANCES, BUT ALL OTHER PORTS ON THE MARKET AS WELL.

 

But if you are someone who has invested money in various FireWire hardware over the years, it's just Apple's way of laughing at you for sending them your money, and now will have to spend more.

 

It's a good thing the Internet wasn't as prevalent as it was back when they dropped SCSI. You would have cried for DAYS, I imagine.

 

Tech changes, get over it.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 10/24/12 at 6:57pm

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #63 of 190

In my previous work the company ordered branded (with company logo) USB sticks. $6-8 each - 2gigs I think. Our time was billed out at $100+ an hour. It saved money to use the usb sticks than the time it took to burn a cd, many times the stick would be reused. It was win win. Many people in the company continued to us CDs because that is what the were use to. It is not logical. The majority of people do not need optical media. The drive has to be removed to prove that it is true.

 

I think money is the real reason apple is making thiner and lighter devices. If you take 8lbs (that is what I remember the weight difference as) times a million that is 8 million lbs - I don't really know what that becomes in savings for shipping but I think it will be a large number. You can't change what apple is doing so you might as well understand the logic in why they are doing things and choose to invest in their products and company or not. No point in bitching. Firewire is used a lot but not if you look at percentages. I am already buying special cables or adapters to change from firewire 400 to 800 - no diference here - you need a special cable or dongle to convert 800 to thunderbolt. You can also use those ports for external monitors.

 

There are solutions to all the problems mentioned here (except the ram in the 21" model and I am sure there will be a solution to that to) using external devices that are relatively cheap. If you think they will make your beautiful machine ugly you have the choice to use a much uglier option - a PC with windows - LOL - I even made myself laugh.

post #64 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post

Worst iMac update ever...

 

I agree with Bruce. Those of you excoriating users who want / need DVD burners, etc, need to step away from your myopic perspective. Anyone working in commercial graphics / video production receives hundreds of DVDs with source material. You possibly heard of "graphic design"? The original market that saved Apple from itself?

 

There is a place for permanent non-modifiable data storage. It's call an archive. Keychains USBs and external drives are indeed available for data transfer, but those are modifiable, non-permanent and can transmit trojans and viruses (see STUXNET). If nothing else, once burned, viruses cannot infect or destroy DVD data - not so with USB keychains, external HDs, networked storage. Finally, the "pre-post-PC world" still uses DVDs and even CDs from time to time, afaiac, viva la difference and the more options, the better.

 

To those whining "Adobe is a dinosaur... MS is a dinosaur" - get real. If Adobe pulled their software from Mac OS X, goodbye 20% of current marketshare. MS, same. So you don't use Photoshop or Word - lucky you. In the real world, these are the apps that get work done in corporations and justify purchase of more expensive iStuff. They're called "standards" - have you heard of them?

 

Lack of simple serviceability is a real value issue. If GM suddenly said "only our authorized service nerds can open the hood of your car" what would happen to GM sales?

 

"Normal people don't work on their computers" - ok fine, but when I can buy DIMMs, SSDs, 7200RPM HDs, etc etc etc from 3rd parties for a fraction of Apple pre-installed prices, with better performance, why shouldn't I? Oh, because in the name of "engineering" Apple has decided to lock down hardware that you paid for and own.

 

Finally, I only post to Apple Insider very infrequently because the cloying fanboyism here negates any possibility of serious intelligent dialog. You know, dialog, where one party says something, and another respectfully agrees or disagrees while offering logical arguments for or against.

 

Most of you think your way is the only way. It is infinitely annoying when you folks judge how people use their machines with comments like "why aren't you using BluRay", "normal people don't service their own stuff", "digital distribution is the post-pc future", "Microsoft is a dinosaur", "Adobe - what do you expect" (or generalizations to that effect) when your sense of legacy and history doesn't extend beyond the smartphone era.

 

When Apple was the underdog, Apple users always were courteous to each other, if not Windows users. I don't recognize this level of "discourse" here in AI forums, precisely because it isn't discourse - it's high school grade fanboyism at its worst.

 

Note that there were no character attacks in my post. I've been doing IT since it was called DP.  (Amazing the similarities between IBM System/370 & 327x, and web servers/browsers - but - what would most of you know about that?)

 

Those that don't remember the past think they've discovered something new, when in fact, there's nothing new under the sun.. 

 

But, I'm a dinosaur, WTF do I know, right? I've used Macs longer than most of you have been alive. So, flame on. Send back the rover, no apparent intelligence here...

post #65 of 190

All of my computers have needed a repair at one point. Parts wear out on machines that are kept more than five years. I upgrade when things break or when software must be updated with a machine that can handle it. Which means I don't upgrade often. Apple and Adobe are annoying me because Flash isn't being updated for my Leopard machine. Safari isn't being updated for Leopard. One thing that really bugs me is iTunes is still being updated for Windows XP but not for older versions of OS X. We gave Apple our money for our computers. XP owners didn't give Apple diddly squat yet they continue to get updated versions of iTunes.

 

Will the lack of updates get me to buy another Apple computer sooner than later? Maybe. The thing is I probably will buy a tablet instead of a computer. I've got another computer that can do the same work I do on my Mac Book.

 

If I buy a tablet I don't really expect user upgradeable parts or to do repairs on it. A desktop computer traditionally is different. I can change the RAM and hard drive easily on my Mac Book from 2008. My HP desktop is designed so I can open the side of it and add or change many things very easily. I like that. I'm curious about how these new iMacs will be opened. When I read the word welding I don't expect things to come apart easily.

 

This thinner is better mantra from the Apple corporation is just crazy.
 

post #66 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Go buy Microsoft Office or Adobe Creative Suite and let us know what format it uses inside the box (DVD).  Internal slot load drives are $59 from OWC.  Get your facts right.  I am not talking about regular backups.  I don't need to backup my downloaded installers over and over again with Time Machine.  I can back those up once to DVD and keep them off the hard drive, and off my Time Machine backups.

 

 

I dont know about Adobe, but my last two versions of Office, 2007 and 2010 were both downloaded

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post #67 of 190
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

When Apple was the underdog, Apple users always were courteous to each other, if not Windows users.

 

See, you're making the assumption that all the people on here have actual, valid complaints and aren't just astroturfing. 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #68 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

One thing that really bugs me is iTunes is still being updated for Windows XP but not for older versions of OS X. We gave Apple our money for our computers. XP owners didn't give Apple diddly squat yet they continue to get updated versions of iTunes.
 

 

that probably says more about the compatability across microsoft products, rather than apple updating specifically for XP

 

Most windows software will run across XP, vista, 7 and 8 (x86)

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post #69 of 190

"Apple slims down iMac 40% with 'friction-stir welding' & ditching the disc drive"

 

Seems like a misleading headline to me. They ditched the optical drive, not "the disc drive."

 

And yes, I'd prefer that they kept the superdrive.

post #70 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Har de har har.  

 

The new iMac actually has *zero* firewire ports (800 or 400).  I'm kind of amazed (well not really considering the author) that the article goes on and on about all the shiny-glowy nice bits but doesn't mention this very relevant fact.  

 

There are probably 5 or 6 hundred iMacs within a short walk from my office and all of them use/need firewire ports either for video editing or some kind of backup.  They are generally replaced hundreds at a time on a bi-yearly basis.  Not having Firewire is indeed going to be a problem.  

 

I understand that Apple is likely doing this to push the drive makers to step up to the Thunderbolt plate and produce some good cheap backup drives that use the interface (which is a very good thing), however ... there aren't going to be a heck of a lot of Thunderbolt enabled video cameras any time soon so there will be buckets and buckets of adapters that need to be bought.  

Why do you need a Firewire port?  You do realize that all your firewire devices will still run if you really want to use them, you can get an adapter and run them on thunderbolt.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

There is a place for permanent non-modifiable data storage. It's call an archive. Keychains USBs and external drives are indeed available for data transfer, but those are modifiable, non-permanent and can transmit trojans and viruses (see STUXNET). If nothing else, once burned, viruses cannot infect or destroy DVD data - not so with USB keychains, external HDs, networked storage. Finally, the "pre-post-PC world" still uses DVDs and even CDs from time to time, afaiac, viva la difference and the more options, the better.

YOu need to learn a thing or two about home "burned" CD and DVDs... they aren't as permanent as you think.  The tech big industries used to make discs that are sold with software or movies and music and such are NOT the same tech your home burner uses... and you can very well lose your data over time.

post #71 of 190

I planned on skipping this release and getting the Haswell iMac, when I bought my refurb 3.4GHz in February 2012. Having said that, I'm not really fussed about the loss of optical drive, I only use it very occasionally and there is the peace of mind knowing that if the external optical goes down (which has happened on my previous two macs) it won't be a problem.

 

GTX680MX  from what I've gathered so far seems pretty good, so the next one is bound to be awesome. The 6970M currently runs x-plane well enough though.

 

Regarding the thinness factor, yeah it does look nice but the current one inch thick look also looks nice and truth be told, it's pretty much a non issue, everyone who has seen my 27" already can't believe it's actually a computer and not just a monitor. 

 

However I'm a bit concerned about the heat factor, the only reason I can see for putting in a 5400 drive in the 21" would be because a faster drive would be too hot. This worries me. I'll feel better upgrading at Haswell, by then any problems with this new design will have been sorted.

post #72 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Way to go to make your point by hurling insults.  Pretty much invalidates anything you said.

This is the reality.  Most folks don't use CD's, and most folks don't service their own computers.  That's the hard truth reality.  It's what I see everywhere and I'm in IT.  No one wants to deal with it.  They send their PC's to someone that knows what they are doing.  Most people will never open their computers to upgrade memory, hardware, etc.  It IS what is going on.

You may not like it but you really do not represent the Joe Consumer.  You make it sound like Apple is insulting you by not tailoring their products to the 1% of people that do what you do.  I service my own machines and I've opened up my 2009 iMac just because I wanted to.  Sure it's not as simple like a regular PC but if you're as technically-inclined as you imply your self to be, what's an extra 5-10 minutes to open an iMac case?  If you do it for a business, you just past that extra labor time to your customer.

What Solips said is true.  I'm not EVEN going to waste my time to google for you the direction that PC-tech is going.  CD-tech is dead.  A cheap USB stick holds a heck of a lot more than a CD does.  If grandma who is still set in her ways wants to see the family kids on a CD for her 1990's computer, either tell her to go to Facebook, or buy a $40 burner (or $79 superdrive) for those 1-2 times a year you'll need it and be done with it.

Technology is not going to be put on hold because you have to have an aging, mechanical device in your computer.  Sorry to be the one to have to tell you that.

There is still more music sold on CDs than digitally, especially if you count the huge market for used CDs (which the record companies never do). It always gets me when people who don't use CDs try to tell the rest of us that nobody uses CDs anymore. Well, many people still do - and there are also still more DVDs sold than movies downloaded. Many more. Many many more.

 

The only way to get uncompressed music (legally) is to buy CDs. There will always be a market for that, even if one of these years they actually sell more digital music online than on CDs (new and used combined).

 

And that's just the commercial media. Home made DVDs may be a smaller market, but many people would rather have their wedding video on DVD than in the cloud somewhere. I make instructional DVDs, and many many people still want DVDs for a lot of things.

post #73 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

There is still more music sold on CDs than digitally, especially if you count the huge market for used CDs (which the record companies never do). It always gets me when people who don't use CDs try to tell the rest of us that nobody uses CDs anymore. Well, many people still do - and there are also still more DVDs sold than movies downloaded. Many more. Many many more.

The only way to get uncompressed music (legally) is to buy CDs. There will always be a market for that, even if one of these years they actually sell more digital music online than on CDs (new and used combined).

And that's just the commercial media. Home made DVDs may be a smaller market, but many people would rather have their wedding video on DVD than in the cloud somewhere. I make instructional DVDs, and many many people still want DVDs for a lot of things.

1) Those aren't Apple's main constituents just as the US market sees the iPhone dominating across all carriers that sell the device yet Android activations worldwide trounce iPhone sales.

2) Sure, AIFF files aren't compressed but you're not looking at the source data that gets written to the CDs. You're conflating the packaging. I could take a 64 bit rate audio book and re-encode it as Apple Lossless and truthfully claim that it's not lossy, but that doesn't make it sound better or tell the whole story.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #74 of 190

um, you do realise Apple sells a Thunderbolt Fire Wire Adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD464ZM/A, nuff said. Thunderbolt is much faster than FW. and the main utility of FW peripherals (Hard drives and video cameras) is transitioning to thunderbolt. FW 800 -- mbps, thunderbolt 10 gbps no comparison.

post #75 of 190
To my knowledge, you don't "take a lot of flack", but "a lot of flak". FLAK is the abreviation of FLugAbwehrKanone - (ground to air defense in WWII).
post #76 of 190

Wow, I feel very old, but all this already happen before!

Remember when the first iMac ditched the floppy drive and so many complained at that time?

Now, it's the same story, but with the DVD. I bet most of you who complains cannot remember using a floppy.

And by the way, the new iMac avec an SDXC card reader: faster, bigger storage and is way more practical than a DVD.

And backup-up with DVD...seriously?

 

The last time I used the disc drive at home is when I reinstalled windows 7. Otherwise, it's completely useless.

And if you cannot live without it, buy one for less than 100$.

 

Seriously, stop complaining!

post #77 of 190
Hi all!

I'm sure that most proff. users will agree that thickness does not matters on a desk top machine, but PERFORMANCE does. You don't carry around a desktopmachine, nor will you sit and write a message to yor mother while its sitting on yor lap.
So Apple, thin and light are good for iDevices, phones and laptops which are fantastic products we all love, but please supply us with a desktop computer we can access, perform upgrades and perform small service on. Furhermore give us a truly HD display so I dont have to check my pro-SLR photos on my iPad, thank You

best regards from Denmark
post #78 of 190

I'm not in the market for a new desktop at the moment, but hot damn, that is one sexy machine, and I'd snap one up right away, if I were.

 

It is the sexiest and most powerful iMac ever, and it will be extremely popular. Let's just say that it'll safely remain the #1 desktop machine in the US. Apple has nothing to worry about there.lol.gif

 

And to anybody whining about the lack of an optical drive, wake up people, it's not 1999 anymore. Apple should have dropped it years ago. If you are one of the 53 people on planet earth who still uses an optical drive, then just go and buy an external drive. I hear that they're rather affordable. Don't be selfish and demand that Apple include an obsolete feature that the vast majority of users do not wish for, do not need, and will not use.

post #79 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoffeDK View Post
please supply us with a desktop computer we can access, perform upgrades and perform small service on. 

 

And there is such a machine, made just for you. It's called the Mac Pro. I hear that the new ones will be out in 2013.

post #80 of 190

The old iMac was kinda annoying (and somewhat nerve wracking) to open up and upgrade the HDDs so I'll reserve judgement on the new iMacs, especially the 21", until we see if they made the process less annoying.  

 

IMHO the little door to upgrade RAM isn't all that important to upgradeability although I noticed that Apple is back to charging a hefty premium on RAM upgrades for the mini.  $300 for 16GB?  Really?  Given I'm not going to pony up $300 for a 256GB SSD either I'm going to upgrade both drive and RAM at the same time so opening up the iMac is a given.

 

I dunno what crack folks are smoking to say that the 2011 iMacs are all that user serviceable given you have to go in with suction cups and hope you didn't just bork the display on a brand new iMac by having it slip while detaching the two fiddly cables attaching it to the logic board.  It's either a 2 person job or propping the display up with something random that's handy.  No harm done but there was a moment of "Oh shit, what have I done".

 

On the plus side, getting dust in between the glass and display shouldn't be an issue anymore.  Damn was that annoying.

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