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Apple CEO Tim Cook calls Microsoft Surface 'compromised, confusing'

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Asked by analysts to comment on the launch of Microsoft's Surface, Apple's chief executive Tim Cook noted that reviews of the product have described it as "compromised" and "confusing."
 
"I haven't personally played with the Surface yet," Cook told the analyst during the company's earnings call, adding, with a heavy sigh, "but what we're reading about it that it's a fairly compromised, confusing product."
 
Cook may have had in mind the Wired review by Mathew Honan,  who described the Surface as "a tablet of both compromises and confusion."
 
CNN's Harry McCracken also wrote that working with the Surface's Office apps "feels like an exercise in compromise," while Josh Topolsky of the The Verge wrote "Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one."
 

 

 
Engineering through tradeoffs 
 
Cook added that Apple's own design philosophy recognizes the inherent tradeoffs required in both engineering and design. 
 
"I think one of the toughest things you do with each product is to make hard tradeoffs, and decide what a product should be," Cook said. "And we've really done that with the iPad. And so the user experience is absolutely incredible."
 
He added, "I suppose you could design a car that flies and floats, but I don't think it would do all those things very well. I think people, when they look at the iPad versus competitive offerings, are going to conclude they really want an iPad. And I think people have done that to date. And I think they will continue to do that."
 
Microsoft promised a no compromise design 
 
Over a year ago, Steven Sinofsky, Microsoft's lead engineer behind the Windows 8 project supporting new touch-based tablets, wrote that from the start, "our goal was a no compromise design."
 
Sinofsky's article on the design of Windows 8 added, "we chose to take the approach of building a design without compromise," before again assuring readers that with Windows 8, "you don’t have to compromise!"
 
The piece concluded, "our design goal was clear: no compromises. If you want to, you can seamlessly switch between Metro style apps and the improved Windows desktop. Existing apps, devices, and tools all remain and are improved in Windows 8. On the other hand, if you prefer to immerse yourself in only Metro style apps (and platform) and the new user experience, you can do that as well!"
 
No compromise design 
 
Over the past year, a variety of industry observers have questioned this approach. Shortly after Sinofsky's post, Blogger Kieran Healy <a href>wrote</a>:
 
"Products advertised to consumers as having 'no compromises' try to please everyone all of the time. From the perspective of the Dieter Ramses of this world, Sinofsky’s repeated use of the phrase 'no compromises' means exactly the opposite of what it says—and more or less guarantees that the product will actually be riddled with design compromises, all made in an ultimately futile effort to keep everyone happy."
 
This June, columnist Jim Dalrymple wrote:
 
"From what I’ve seen, it seems to me that Microsoft is trying to do a similar type of dance with the Surface that it did with previous tablets. The company is trying to convince consumers that this device can be a computer and a tablet at the same time. Based on the sales of the iPad, I’m not sure that’s what consumers really want."
post #2 of 44
Saw a few Windows 8 laptops this morning, the design and layout of the screen makes you want to touch them like a Windows phone, of course nothing happens you have to use the touchpad and keyboard.

Everything seemed to want a Live! Login.

Updated my Apple TV and picked up a lightning adaptor.
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post #3 of 44

No compromise, except of course battery life, screen resolution, weight, low-power CPU, two models to confuse customers, etc.

post #4 of 44

I still don't think that MS gets it. People don't want a laptop/tablet hybrid. Well, a few clueless geeks might claim to want one, but those geeks are the very same people who trashed the iPad when it first came out and predicted it's doom. Needless to say, they were dead wrong. The concept was far too innovative and advanced for those clueless geeks to grasp. They're still acting like it's 1995.

post #5 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

No compromise, except of course battery life, screen resolution, weight, low-power CPU, two models to confuse customers, etc.

Then there are app, ecosystem, domain access, plug-ins and peripheral driver issues with the ARM version arriving at midnight tonight.
Edited by SolipsismX - 10/25/12 at 9:31pm

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post #6 of 44

iOS and OSX don't have the same user interface. They have interfaces best suited for their hardware. I am surprised MS didn't go that way and instead chose one-user-interface-fits-all. I am starting to wonder if Windows 8 will be an epic disaster for Microsoft. And I am a Windows guy.

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post #7 of 44
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Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

iOS and OSX don't have the same user interface. They have interfaces best suited for their hardware. I am surprised MS didn't go that way and instead chose one-user-interface-fits-all. I am starting to wonder if Windows 8 will be an epic disaster for Microsoft. And I am a Windows guy.

The problem is that, unlike Apple, Microsoft has never learned that it must cannibalise its own products to move forward. A few years ago they were showing off a device called the Courier which was a master stroke: a dual screen tablet supporting handwriting recognition and collaboration. Ballmer canned it because it wasn't Windows.

So the went back to the drawing board and made the same mistake again: a device that is neither one thing or the other. I remember when they presented the Surface at that excruciating demo (found to be an almost word-for-word ripoff of a presentation that Steve Jobs had made almost a year before) they promised handwriting recognition and a high resolution screen. What happened to that?

Not that it matters because MS doesn't really care about this version of Surface. This one is just to get folk interested. The real Surface is the heavier, thicker, more expensive Intel version which will give Microsoft the only edge it has left: backward compatibility. But when you command such a huge market presence, backward compatibility could be the only advantage it needs.
post #8 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153778/apple-ceo-tim-cook-calls-microsoft-surface-compromised-confusing#post_2219968"]I still don't think that MS gets it. People don't want a laptop/tablet hybrid.

Oh, they get it. They just can't do it. They need people to accept their broken vision so they can protect the Windows ecosystem.

Ask yourself this: in ten years time, what will Apple compromise to protect the iCloud ecosystem?
post #9 of 44

The whole concept of 'cannibalising' your own products only makes sense in a paradigm where you have a monopoly and want to screw the customer. If someone buys a mini instead of a dearer full size iPad then that would make Apple happy because they were never in it for the money, give the customer what they want and the $B look after themselves. 

post #10 of 44
Quote:
"Cook may have had in mind the Wired review by Mathew Honan, who described the Surface as "a tablet of both compromises and confusion."

 

 

I don't suppose you can be honest and note that Honan actually likes and recommends Surface:

 

 

Quote:
"This is a great device. It is a new thing, in a new space, and likely to confuse many of Microsoft’s longtime customers. People will have problems with applications — especially when they encounter them online and are given an option by Internet Explorer to run them, only to discover this won’t work. But overall it’s quite good; certainly better than any full-size Android tablet on the market. And once the application ecosystem fleshes out, it’s a viable alternative to the iPad as well."

 

 

In 2007 Microsoft made the mistake of ignoring the iPhone as inconsequential and then they made the same mistake about the iPad.  Now you are telling us that Cook - the CEO of the company - is quoting an article that clearly, if you read it, supports surface and recommends it as "great" and "better than any full-size Android tablet on the market" and as a "viable alternative to iPad"... in a derisive manner - as a means to bolster an argument for iPad.  That tells me that he didn't pay very much attention to what this author actually said, and neither did you.

 

It is inevitable that Apple's competitors will up their game; they have to.  Apple ignores that competition at their own peril, and it isn't in your or their interest to play as fast and loose with the facts as you evidence here by so completely ignoring and misrepresenting this author's thesis.  When you have to distort reviews to bolster your own position... or if you are so blinded that you can't actually see that you are doing so, that ought to be taken by anyone savvy as an indication that there is a problem.  Apple cannot become complacent and they cannot fail to see the competition for what it is; it only takes a few quarters of that sort of stuff to lose momentum and slip, and takes only a year or two to get completely outgunned.  If you don't believe that, just keep the blinders on for a while and see how it plays out.

 

MS is bringing a juggernaut to market.  It may not displace iPad overnight, but Google really should be worried, because MS is in their rear-view mirror and coming up quick.  MS has the advantage of enterprise saturation, and the enterprise will adopt these devices.  They have the advantage of huge numbers of PC sales worldwide that still dwarf Mac sales by gigantic numbers, and even if a small percentage of these sales wind up running Win8 it will go head to head with Apple's installed base in only a few years.  This is not something to just blow off.

 

I love Apple products - I have a bunch of them and am typing this on a Macbook Pro.  I do not think, however, that willful ignorance or blindness is a good thing; it serves nobody well.  The fuse MS has lit is attached to some very serious and formidable firepower; it would be foolish to discount and ignore it.

 

I watched the Surface launch today, and I was impressed.  If you haven't seen it, I really think you should - it reminded me very much of anything Apple has ever put together.  I'm not talking about the intro 4 months back, i'm talking about the event today.  And what I walked away with today is a solid sense that MS means business.  While Microsoft's design aesthetic may seem quite foreign to long-time Apple devotees, what they did with Surface's design and engineering is every bit as thoughtful, nuanced, and thorough as anything Apple has ever done.


Edited by tt92618 - 10/25/12 at 10:15pm
post #11 of 44
What a misleading and innaccurate headline! Tim Cook was just quoting someone else - that isn't his opinion on the Surface since he hasn't even tried it!
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post #12 of 44

I'm surprised TC commented on the Surface. 
Must be that he thinks it will be a formidable competitor

post #13 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What a misleading and innaccurate headline! Tim Cook was just quoting someone else - that isn't his opinion on the Surface since he hasn't even tried it!

You can't have an opinion on something unless you've tried it? He's been working at Apple for a long time and he's clearly not an idiot so I think if he reads about a products features he come to a clear opinion as to why he thinks it's confusing and compromising, especially considering Apple going the opposite direction to make a very clear use product with the iPad and iOS.

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post #14 of 44
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What a misleading and innaccurate headline! Tim Cook was just quoting someone else - that isn't his opinion on the Surface since he hasn't even tried it!

 

 

Do you really need to try a Surface to guess what it's like?  LOL

 

It's a MICROSOFT product created under BALLMER. 

 

Not that hard to render an accurate judgment at this point. 

post #15 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


Do you really need to try a Surface to guess what it's like?  LOL

It's a MICROSOFT product created under BALLMER. 

Not that hard to render an accurate judgment at this point. 

It's not even about what it's like that Cook commented on. Cook commented on the focus and philosophy behind the device. If anyone has a valid opinion to make about tablets it's Tim Cook seeing as how the clearly focused iPad is far and away the best selling tablet in the world despite Win tablets having a decade long lead coming to market.

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post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


Oh, they get it. They just can't do it. They need people to accept their broken vision so they can protect the Windows ecosystem.
Ask yourself this: in ten years time, what will Apple compromise to protect the iCloud ecosystem?

 

You can't use a rhetorical, hypothetical "in ten years" argument to prove a point.  Meanwhile, there are plenty of examples to the contrary, including Apple cannibalizing their iPod, Mac, and even the iPad sales with the arrival of the iPad Mini.

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post #17 of 44
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Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

I'm surprised TC commented on the Surface. 
Must be that he thinks it will be a formidable competitor

 

Surprised he commented? An analyst asked him to specifically comment on it.

post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

The whole concept of 'cannibalising' your own products only makes sense in a paradigm where you have a monopoly and want to screw the customer. .....

Sorry, I have to disagree with this statement. In any industry that is as fast changing as the computer/tech industry .... you absolutely have to cannibalize just to stay at the cutting edge .... otherwise you end up like Microsoft ..... selling over bloated and second rate products. You must learn what and when to let stuff go so you can keep ahead of the competition.

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post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

No compromise, except of course battery life, screen resolution, weight, low-power CPU, two models to confuse customers, etc.

Microsoft screwed themselves on this one.  One can only use it as a "laptop" in landscape mode due to the "kickstand".

 

I wonder if they are going to change their GUI for Windows 9. 

post #20 of 44

there is so much "grading on the curve" around the web. reviews note the V.1 Surface tab's obvious and serious limitations, but go on to approve of it anyway, focusing on its good features.

 

the same was true of Windows Phone 7. which in fact has proved a total flop. but never mind, here comes Windows Phone 8! that will save the day!

 

couple of reasons for this. the geeky part of the web just loves new gadgets and overlooks complexity that is problematic, because they like fussing with stuff and finding workarounds. and of course the longtime MS fan establishment - especially all those IT and software people - will never give up hope of the good old days coming back. and the anybody-but-Apple group are constantly looking for their "great white hope," especially now that Google is getting really hard to root for.

 

this V.1 ARM Surface is going to flop too. businesses that might be interested will wait for the Intel Pro version that can run all their business softwares - this can't. consumers can't find their favorite apps either, since none are ready, even if they can figure out the unfamiliar UI. but why will they bother with so many other easier choices? anyone that needs portable dependable data/location service can't use it at all, because it has none. that leaves no one but MS early-adopter fans to buy it. there are probably several million of them, but that's all.

 

the V.2 model we will see next year will fix most of these problems, and MS will bribe major developers to port their hits to RT. but consumers will have moved on to the next hyped thing by then - Amazon's next Fire, or the latest and greatest Android "flavor," or of course the next Apple tablet - most likely an A6 Retina iPad Mini in the Spring. the Surface will be Old News by then, and so a distant also-ran.

 

no, sorry, this is no "juggernaut." this all so reminds me of the Zune.

post #21 of 44

You are forgetting the obvious fact that Surface is just one of many tablet and hybrid form factors that will run Win8.  Asus, Lenovo, Dell, and numerous others have already announced devices and some of those devices will bring to the market features Surface is missing.  3G, 4G, LTE and all the rest will be available in weeks time - It won't be a 'year' before we see the shortcomings you allege addressed.  This same fact is why the Zune comparison is off the mark; Zune wasn't an operating system - it pitched one MS device against one Apple device.  That scenario does not fit what is happening now.

 

I also think you underestimate the potential for the MS app store.  The feature that gave the app store so much push - the depth and breadth of its offerings - has become a big liability for it.  Developers who are thoughtful realize that it is now almost impossible to get noticed, and that means that developers increasingly have to budget advertising and other efforts to get sales.  That makes the app store start to look more and more like any other retail endeavor and it squeezes out the smaller devs.  LOTS of developers are going to see the Win8 store as a blank slate upon which they have a new chance to get noticed.

 

In the past many of the same arguments you make were used about Android tablets, too.  Remember all the snide chuckling around here about the Android tabs, and all the mocking and silliness?  Well guess what - while last year Apple enjoyed an 81% market share, this year they enjoyed only a 52% market share.  Android went from 15% to 48% - in one year.  Examined in that context, the increases in Apple sales do not indicate that Apple is in an insurmountable number one position, they indicate that the market size and potential for these device types is huge and Apple is riding that wave.  While folks like to use the rising numbers of Apple shipments to argue that Apple is on top, the reality is that the market is growing, and it is growing faster than Apple sales in terms of total volume.  That is why Android was able to eat essentially a third of Apple's market share in one year without anybody even noticing - the market is new and expanding.  What I find most remarkable about this is that Android was able to accomplish it despite the fact that it (Android) is such a horrid piece of trash (and it is - both for end users and for developers).

 

Microsoft is positioning itself first and foremost to eat Android's lunch, and frankly, I think the Redmond crew is well positioned to do so.  But don't let that fool you into complacently thinking Apple remains unassailable - it most definitely does not.  Ultimately these markets - smart phones and tablets - will mature just as the PC market has.  When that happens, market share will matter because market growth will not be able to compensate for declining or static market share.  What is going to happen to Apple stock when they can't post amazing YOY growth?  A sobering question for you to consider.

 

These reasons above are all why it does matter what MS is up to, and why Apple shouldn't be foolish enough to dismiss MS... as Microsoft was to dismiss Apple.


Edited by tt92618 - 10/26/12 at 12:16am
post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Sorry, I have to disagree with this statement. In any industry that is as fast changing as the computer/tech industry .... you absolutely have to cannibalize just to stay at the cutting edge .... otherwise you end up like Microsoft ..... selling over bloated and second rate products. You must learn what and when to let stuff go so you can keep ahead of the competition.

 

You misunderstand me, it's the word 'cannibalise' that I disagree with as it implies some sort of loss, when in fact it's simply providing choice.

post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You can't have an opinion on something unless you've tried it? He's been working at Apple for a long time and he's clearly not an idiot so I think if he reads about a products features he come to a clear opinion as to why he thinks it's confusing and compromising, especially considering Apple going the opposite direction to make a very clear use product with the iPad and iOS.

 

What Apple is doing to OSX in implementing iOS features does not paint a very clear picture to me.

 

I also highly doubt he hasn't tried windows 8 or surface at all. If only to qualify it as a non-competitor (which is not my opinion by the way, I think MS has nailed the one-OS-fits all quite nicely, especially since you also have desktop mode)

 

Only time will tell...

post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What a misleading and innaccurate headline! Tim Cook was just quoting someone else - that isn't his opinion on the Surface since he hasn't even tried it!

You can't have an opinion on something unless you've tried it? He's been working at Apple for a long time and he's clearly not an idiot so I think if he reads about a products features he come to a clear opinion as to why he thinks it's confusing and compromising, especially considering Apple going the opposite direction to make a very clear use product with the iPad and iOS.

In his defense, I think Mobius meant that the headline reads that Tim Cook calls it C&C, while the article's first sentence reads that the reviewers called it C&C. Nonetheless, agree with your view. Also the next one down this thread.
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post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You can't have an opinion on something unless you've tried it? He's been working at Apple for a long time and he's clearly not an idiot so I think if he reads about a products features he come to a clear opinion as to why he thinks it's confusing and compromising, especially considering Apple going the opposite direction to make a very clear use product with the iPad and iOS.

Well, one can have opinion even about something one never heard about before. But having some first-hand experience with the subject definitively gives that opinion some weight.
post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Microsoft screwed themselves on this one.  One can only use it as a "laptop" in landscape mode due to the "kickstand".

I wonder if they are going to change their GUI for Windows 9. 

Did you ever desire to use laptop in portrait mode..?
post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

No compromise, except of course battery life, screen resolution, weight, low-power CPU, two models to confuse customers, etc.

From Anandtech: "Overall battery life is pretty competitive with the iPad. In lighter use cases Apple pulls ahead slightly, but if you look at our updated web browsing test the heavier CPU load pushes Surface ahead of the third gen iPad. It’s not clear how the 4th gen iPad would stack up in this comparison."

9.12 hours of light browsing, compared to iPad3 9.28 hours is not bad really. And this is only MS Surface. Other vendors can push battery life further than that, if they choose to. Asus VivoTab RT comes with keyboard dock housing 2nd battery, and is only 525g without keyboard (iPad 3 is 680g for wifi version).

Yes, CPU is slower and screen is lower res... for now. That is the beauty of standard platform vs. single vendor - things are changing fast. Variations in size, weight, battery life, hardware features... will be covered.

And then, there is Office. Some people here are dismissing importance of this because they dislike it and have managed to find a niche that does not require presence of Office in everyday. But for majority, importance of Office will be higher than importance of Retina display.

Well this is my opinion. Time will tell.
post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post



And then, there is Office. Some people here are dismissing importance of this because they dislike it and have managed to find a niche that does not require presence of Office in everyday. But for majority, importance of Office will be higher than importance of Retina display.

 

For anyone who arg about OfficeRT being the Surface Killer should try it first.  OfficeRT is a very light version of the real Office and no better of what already exist on iPad and Android. 

 

I'll keep an eye on Surface but I think many first buyers will be deceived by what they got vs a real PC

post #29 of 44
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
I'm surprised TC commented on the Surface. 

Must be that he thinks it will be a formidable competitor

 

Looks like we might need a new Rule on the list. 

 

"Apple never talks about their competitors. Ever. For any reason. Unless they feel threatened by them."

Originally Posted by helia

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post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Surprised he commented? An analyst asked him to specifically comment on it.

Well, he could have that he didn't have any useful to say
post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

What Apple is doing to OSX in implementing iOS features does not paint a very clear picture to me.

I also highly doubt he hasn't tried windows 8 or surface at all. If only to qualify it as a non-competitor (which is not my opinion by the way, I think MS has nailed the one-OS-fits all quite nicely, especially since you also have desktop mode)

Only time will tell...

What can you do in Desktop Mode on the Surface?

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post #32 of 44
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
Well, he could have that he didn't have any useful to say

Yeah, THAT sure projects a better image. 😩

 

Come on.

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post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Saw a few Windows 8 laptops this morning, the design and layout of the screen makes you want to touch them like a Windows phone, of course nothing happens you have to use the touchpad and keyboard.

This echoes my feelings about Windows 8.

 

Everything I needed to do on a desktop/laptop seemed to be hidden behind the tile UI.  Which may make sense on a tablet, but just adds one more level of stuff to navigate through on a desktop.  And trying to launch applications which don't have a tile associated with them was an absolute pain to figure out.  Not to mention figuring out how to shut down the computer, quitting out of fullscreen applications, etc.  Definitely a confused UI for a traditional computer.


Edited by auxio - 10/26/12 at 7:08am
 
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post #34 of 44
The first thing I think of when I look at that Surface tablets is, why on earth would I want to work in an environment immersed in garish colors (magenta, turquoise, etc.). Microsoft seems to go out of their way to prove Steve Jobs' observation correct %u2013 they are sorely lacking in their sense of taste.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post

The first thing I think of when I look at that Surface tablets is, why on earth would I want to work in an environment immersed in garish colors (magenta, turquoise, etc.). Microsoft seems to go out of their way to prove Steve Jobs' observation correct %u2013 they are sorely lacking in their sense of taste.

 

The thing that boggles my mind, is MS managed to bring back the Membrane Keyboard(Timex Sinclair called from 1982, they want their keyboard back), charge $100 for it, and the tech press is lapping it up.

 

They complain about Apple RDF?

post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

You are forgetting the obvious fact that Surface is just one of many tablet and hybrid form factors that will run Win8.  Asus, Lenovo, Dell, and numerous others have already announced devices and some of those devices will bring to the market features Surface is missing.  3G, 4G, LTE and all the rest will be available in weeks time - It won't be a 'year' before we see the shortcomings you allege addressed.  This same fact is why the Zune comparison is off the mark; Zune wasn't an operating system - it pitched one MS device against one Apple device.  That scenario does not fit what is happening now.

 

I also think you underestimate the potential for the MS app store.  The feature that gave the app store so much push - the depth and breadth of its offerings - has become a big liability for it.  Developers who are thoughtful realize that it is now almost impossible to get noticed, and that means that developers increasingly have to budget advertising and other efforts to get sales.  That makes the app store start to look more and more like any other retail endeavor and it squeezes out the smaller devs.  LOTS of developers are going to see the Win8 store as a blank slate upon which they have a new chance to get noticed.

 

In the past many of the same arguments you make were used about Android tablets, too.  Remember all the snide chuckling around here about the Android tabs, and all the mocking and silliness?  Well guess what - while last year Apple enjoyed an 81% market share, this year they enjoyed only a 52% market share.  Android went from 15% to 48% - in one year.  Examined in that context, the increases in Apple sales do not indicate that Apple is in an insurmountable number one position, they indicate that the market size and potential for these device types is huge and Apple is riding that wave.  While folks like to use the rising numbers of Apple shipments to argue that Apple is on top, the reality is that the market is growing, and it is growing faster than Apple sales in terms of total volume.  That is why Android was able to eat essentially a third of Apple's market share in one year without anybody even noticing - the market is new and expanding.  What I find most remarkable about this is that Android was able to accomplish it despite the fact that it (Android) is such a horrid piece of trash (and it is - both for end users and for developers).

 

Microsoft is positioning itself first and foremost to eat Android's lunch, and frankly, I think the Redmond crew is well positioned to do so.  But don't let that fool you into complacently thinking Apple remains unassailable - it most definitely does not.  Ultimately these markets - smart phones and tablets - will mature just as the PC market has.  When that happens, market share will matter because market growth will not be able to compensate for declining or static market share.  What is going to happen to Apple stock when they can't post amazing YOY growth?  A sobering question for you to consider.

 

These reasons above are all why it does matter what MS is up to, and why Apple shouldn't be foolish enough to dismiss MS... as Microsoft was to dismiss Apple.

you didn't notice my comment was clearly specific to the Surface RT manufactured by MS? since that is what all the reviews are reviewing right now? if what you say is true and other OEM's offer RT tablets this year that are better, then they will kill this MS Surface dead even faster than i expected. a cool keyboard is not enough.

 

but even they cannot solve the missing software, can't run old Windows applications, and "you have to get used to it" problems that apply to all RT products. and of those, only the missing software could be fixed by sometime next year. RT is a one-off ARM concept from MS, an interim placeholder in the market until Intel can finally produce a decent X86 tablet chip for low power devices. MS is just trying to buy time. Remember Windows Phone 6.5? or 7.0? or 7.5? all fatally flawed/limited interim products that MS hyped at the time anyway in order to keep a foothold in the smartphone market. RT may not be dumped as fast as the Kin was, another such MS gambit, but i give it less than 2 years.

 

the X86 Surface Pro, that may be different. have to wait and see until one is actually put on the market, not just hyped. it has very different markets and issues. 

 

MS likewise tried to expand the Zune from just hardware into its overall media store software for all PC's and OEM media products, the Zune Marketplace with associated services. they just recently changed the name to XBox Music, finally admitting that the Zune "brand" was dead dead dead and hoping to hitch it up to an actually popular product by re-branding. so yes, the MS media store is still alive, but a distant also ran behind several others.

 

in this case we have the RT - which will use XBox Music for media - as the launchpad for the new MS App store too. so yes, maybe the MS App store will do a lot more, including smartphone apps (the Windows 8 phone is a whole other topic!), and live beyond the RT Surface. at least this time MS didn't saddle it with the name of a dead-end product.

 

but i can't find any "juggernaut" in any of the above. your post is long on rhetoric but very very short on any specific reasoning.

post #37 of 44

Prediction: A total flop just like the Windows phone.

post #38 of 44

I mostly agree but my question is, Who's hitting Who's forehead over their Touch/Type Covers?

"TRAVEL is Fatal to Prejudice,Bigotry,Narrowmindedness"mt

TRY IT!

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"TRAVEL is Fatal to Prejudice,Bigotry,Narrowmindedness"mt

TRY IT!

Reply
post #39 of 44
post #40 of 44

 

Giant banners of products on white backgrounds… glass product nameplates on the tables… 

 

Get bent, Microsoft. Yeah, I appreciate you doing your own thing with your mobile software, but frigging commit to being different, you idiots. This is purposeful obfuscation. 

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
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