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Apple CEO Tim Cook calls Microsoft Surface 'compromised, confusing' - Page 2

post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


Do you really need to try a Surface to guess what it's like?  LOL

It's a MICROSOFT product created under BALLMER. 

Not that hard to render an accurate judgment at this point. 

You ... you mean ... it could be another Zune? /shock horror disbelief
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

iOS and OSX don't have the same user interface. They have interfaces best suited for their hardware. I am surprised MS didn't go that way and instead chose one-user-interface-fits-all. I am starting to wonder if Windows 8 will be an epic disaster for Microsoft. And I am a Windows guy.

 

The OTHER scary thing here is that they promote the idea that "you can interact with the Metro interface, of some other way". I know that the Uber Geeks like the idea of choices, but the practicality of development and design is; consistency rules. Even a bad interface, if it is at least logically consistent, can be useful. Just think of the support headache, or the developers, they've got to ask WHICH interface is being used -- and was the intent "desktop style or tablet usage". Choose between the keyboard, the mouse, or the touch screen -- that's great. But what's on screen and is ONE always available?

 

With the iOS system, the latest iPhone 5 is the first break in having the same consistent aspect ratio -- and they deal with that by having a black band, or an extra row of icons. So really, it's the same dimension except when watching a movie. But Developers are probably still going to design for the "standard aspect." iOS still has a HUGE advantage over Android because of the testing, development and interface are all consistent. Most Android users do not update their OS and some vendors don't even bother with support after the first year. They got their 2 year contract and they are done.

 

Now Microsoft doesn't have to go down that road because they are selling the hardware -- but they've already split the OS interface on two paths, just so they can keep that one foot back on the desktop. Truly -- they don't believe in "Pads" at all. If they can't commit to the "best design for the use" of the machine -- how can the user? One mediocre interface that performs well is better than two mediocre interfaces that perform slightly worse, and then you write software and target it as if it were two platforms. The developers have to test against a dozen reference platforms, aspect ratios, versions of OS and which vendor provides service because certain things have to be turned on or off due to the vagaries of the carrier signals, power consumption, and what it costs to keep "pinging" the phone. So they end up writing to the iPhone FIRST, and if successful, they may decide to port it to Android and spend the resources to make it right.

 

The raw numbers might make Android look good -- but it's more than one platform when it comes to development and support. You write to iOS and for the most part, it's one contiguous experience.

 

Sure, everyone says they want choice -- they really mean CONTROL. Give people the best product you can design instead of a choice between mediocre. A company that has millions, perhaps billions to spend on designing a gadget, can do usability testing. Apple agonized over every detail and what they LEFT OUT is more important than all the bells and whistles they left in. Samsung was smart to copy the iPhone and iPad -- they made $26 Billion and only spent $1 billion in fines and court costs, while Blackberry and others went the 'bake your own" path and lost money. Many smart phones had tons of features and bragged about Flash and Multitasking -- that was in every ad they could squeeze out. Apple's ads showed people doing stuff. Raw numbers of RAM and Mhz and things people with "dumb phones" never concern themselves with. "Does it work, and do I have to think about it?" People aren't buying powerful computers anymore -- they are buying "solutions" and ways to get things done.

 

>> Sorry for the marketing rant -- but it's so obvious, and it's annoying that Microsoft can be such a mighty behemoth and then leave the playing field open like this. It sounds like a fundamental problem with people who look inward at the company, rather than out at the users.

 

 

Microsoft is demonstrating that they don't get the tablet, and don't believe in tablets, but they've got a tablet for you, if you HAVE to have one, and by the way, you know how to use it because it's just like Windows. Or that Windows 8 that you are just getting to learn and isn't intuitive. So it's a way to run all those Windows things, if you HAVE no access to a laptop. I can imagine the internal conversation at Microsoft; "I'll just snap on the keyboard, and take advantage of all that expandability that stupid iPad doesn't have, and after a mouse and an external DVD -- I'll have all the power and convenience of a laptop. Bam!"

 

>> I'm amazed that the Windows 8 phone doesn't come with a parachute to help everyone jump off the MS platform.

post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

The OTHER scary thing here is that they promote the idea that "you can interact with the Metro interface, of some other way". I know that the Uber Geeks like the idea of choices, but the practicality of development and design is; consistency rules. Even a bad interface, if it is at least logically consistent, can be useful. Just think of the support headache, or the developers, they've got to ask WHICH interface is being used -- and was the intent "desktop style or tablet usage". Choose between the keyboard, the mouse, or the touch screen -- that's great. But what's on screen and is ONE always available?

With the iOS system, the latest iPhone 5 is the first break in having the same consistent aspect ratio -- and they deal with that by having a black band, or an extra row of icons. So really, it's the same dimension except when watching a movie. But Developers are probably still going to design for the "standard aspect." iOS still has a HUGE advantage over Android because of the testing, development and interface are all consistent. Most Android users do not update their OS and some vendors don't even bother with support after the first year. They got their 2 year contract and they are done.

Now Microsoft doesn't have to go down that road because they are selling the hardware -- but they've already split the OS interface on two paths, just so they can keep that one foot back on the desktop. Truly -- they don't believe in "Pads" at all. If they can't commit to the "best design for the use" of the machine -- how can the user? One mediocre interface that performs well is better than two mediocre interfaces that perform slightly worse, and then you write software and target it as if it were two platforms. The developers have to test against a dozen reference platforms, aspect ratios, versions of OS and which vendor provides service because certain things have to be turned on or off due to the vagaries of the carrier signals, power consumption, and what it costs to keep "pinging" the phone. So they end up writing to the iPhone FIRST, and if successful, they may decide to port it to Android and spend the resources to make it right.

The raw numbers might make Android look good -- but it's more than one platform when it comes to development and support. You write to iOS and for the most part, it's one contiguous experience.

Sure, everyone says they want choice -- they really mean CONTROL. Give people the best product you can design instead of a choice between mediocre. A company that has millions, perhaps billions to spend on designing a gadget, can do usability testing. Apple agonized over every detail and what they LEFT OUT is more important than all the bells and whistles they left in. Samsung was smart to copy the iPhone and iPad -- they made $26 Billion and only spent $1 billion in fines and court costs, while Blackberry and others went the 'bake your own" path and lost money. Many smart phones had tons of features and bragged about Flash and Multitasking -- that was in every ad they could squeeze out. Apple's ads showed people doing stuff. Raw numbers of RAM and Mhz and things people with "dumb phones" never concern themselves with. "Does it work, and do I have to think about it?" People aren't buying powerful computers anymore -- they are buying "solutions" and ways to get things done.

>> Sorry for the marketing rant -- but it's so obvious, and it's annoying that Microsoft can be such a mighty behemoth and then leave the playing field open like this. It sounds like a fundamental problem with people who look inward at the company, rather than out at the users.


Microsoft is demonstrating that they don't get the tablet, and don't believe in tablets, but they've got a tablet for you, if you HAVE to have one, and by the way, you know how to use it because it's just like Windows. Or that Windows 8 that you are just getting to learn and isn't intuitive. So it's a way to run all those Windows things, if you HAVE no access to a laptop. I can imagine the internal conversation at Microsoft; "I'll just snap on the keyboard, and take advantage of all that expandability that stupid iPad doesn't have, and after a mouse and an external DVD -- I'll have all the power and convenience of a laptop. Bam!"

>> I'm amazed that the Windows 8 phone doesn't come with a parachute to help everyone jump off the MS platform.

what MS cannot grasp, institutionally, is that they are not on top anymore, and thus they can no longer command their user base to follow their dictates. plus they thought/think the users actually want them! (don't we all) inertia is their greatest strength, but with W8 they are throwing that away. because now there are real alternatives - not just Apple - and change is a pain. so this time they will loose a chunk of that base. for good.

and if they don't "woo" any of them back by essentially returning to Windows 7 next year -whatever they call it - it really will be the beginning of the end.
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

From Anandtech: "Overall battery life is pretty competitive with the iPad. In lighter use cases Apple pulls ahead slightly, but if you look at our updated web browsing test the heavier CPU load pushes Surface ahead of the third gen iPad. It’s not clear how the 4th gen iPad would stack up in this comparison."
9.12 hours of light browsing, compared to iPad3 9.28 hours is not bad really. And this is only MS Surface. Other vendors can push battery life further than that, if they choose to. Asus VivoTab RT comes with keyboard dock housing 2nd battery, and is only 525g without keyboard (iPad 3 is 680g for wifi version).
Yes, CPU is slower and screen is lower res... for now. That is the beauty of standard platform vs. single vendor - things are changing fast. Variations in size, weight, battery life, hardware features... will be covered.
And then, there is Office. Some people here are dismissing importance of this because they dislike it and have managed to find a niche that does not require presence of Office in everyday. But for majority, importance of Office will be higher than importance of Retina display.
Well this is my opinion. Time will tell.

Let's see. With a slower CPU and a screen that has 1/2 the resolution (which has a HUGE impact on power usage), the Windows tablet almost matches the iPad in everyday use. Hmmmm.......

Of course, that ignores the fact that the number of apps you can run - and therefore the number of things you can do with it - is very limited.

I agree with Cook. Microsoft has a very difficult, confusing sell here. The entire Windows 8 RT vs Windows 8 Pro nonsense is going to confuse customers to no end.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Apple CEO Tim Cook calls Microsoft Surface 'compromised, confusing'