Phil Schiller says Apple does with its Macs what PC makers are 'afraid' to do - Page 5

 

I know, right? One of my biggest complaints is when I'm rushing to make a deadline, trying to get the files across the network, and I can hear this faint little "whizwhiz" every so often. It's really disruptive to the workflow. Silencing that is WAY more important than getting data off the drive quickly! /s

Edited by v5v - 10/28/12 at 9:26am

Making things non repairable or upgradeable DIY style certainly helps Apple's recycling/repair business more than pay its way. It also makes sure nothing can come loose in transit so a good saving in costs are made there.

 

I hear you bro, that's why I also commented on... 

Quote:

 

The iMac screen is perfect quality for most professional requirements but needs the additional processing oomph of a rack support processor/server, the mac-mini server or multiples thereof serves home and small office duties and I believe the next MacPro should be capable of mixing it with the best studio requirements, many professional creative studios I'm sure would be happy with iMacs as app work terminals offloading the post heavy render lifting to a suitable pci MacPro server or multiples thereof  built up to requirements leaving the iMacs instantly free for editing the next job along, hence enhanced pro_ductivity.

 

I would be quite prepared to reconsider returning to the mac fold if this were the case, wouldn't you?.

 

Oh, the way language is butchered. There isn't anything "flawed" with the internals, they work just fine.

Cook and Schiller are becoming increasingly arrogant and snotty in these presentations. Love Apple's stuff, but kept wincing during the keynote at the number of times they sounded completely full of themselves.

Technically true. Since the Mac Pro came out, it has always been easy to upgrade (VERY easy).

However, some of Apple's earlier Pro machines were disasters from an upgrade perspective. The PowerMac 8600 and 9600 were horrible to upgrade. But that's ancient history.

 

No, it's more "they're not as good at slipping Steveisms in undetected". Their delivery is the problem, and it can be improved if they actually work on it.

Yes, really. My Canopus gets my cherished moments from VHS onto HDD/SSD. FW400 only. But if the next PM doesn't have FW but TB I'll simply get a different Canopus, or whatever box. If I'm not done by then.




Fully agree with your post, nonetheless.

Is that still DRM-ed? But one can sync it to an iPad? I do think a digital copy is a lot better than an OD; can't stick it in my comfy 747 chair so the creator is dictating I cannot easily watch a DVD during flight.

Why would they do that if they sell a Pro mac themselves? And I'd hardly want to call the iMac a fashion accessory.

Ease of use. Just sync a couple of vids to your iPad. Your carrying an iPad anyway, so no need for extra discs to carry.

I wish they'd ask $999 for the 16GB model so we'd have less people complaining about the price!

That really was the pits! What were they thinking? An 1997 invention, not supported in an 2001 OS? From MS, really? I was flabbergasted.

It's a fantastic machine, isn't it? Also their cheapest, considering you won't need to get a new display at every iteration of the iMac.

You're right; they haven't Not with the MP, not with the G4, G3. Indeed, iMacs are consumer PC's, and them being All-in-One of course you can't upgrade them. Why people think you should be able to is beyond me. Don't they look at all the offerings from Apple before making a decision?

Strange to think Pro's would buy an iMac. Don't these Pro's understand the limitations of the iMac, and should begetting a MP instead?

Was easy even before the MP; the PowerMac G5, G4 was also easy, Heck the whole Mac would come out on the side!

We never had a problem with replacing the HDD's in those 9600's. What was difficult for you?

1) Why not just the TB-to-FW800 adapter and then an adapter for FW800-to-FW400?

2) FW400 and VHS are very old technologies, as you are aware. That isn't to say they aren't still useful but no one using them should expect any company to stll support them, especially not Apple.


That is fully dependent on the type of "Pro" you are. I do very little in the way of "processing" that really warrants the power of an iMac. In fact, I've been a "Pro" with my notebook PCs for well over a decade. The iMac will be my first at home Desktop "PC" in about 14 years, save for an old iMac with the swivel head that I bought for someone but then have connected as a remote machine to connect to my network routing equipment.

I am also on the Nvidia GeForce 320M. This iMac will be a huge upgrade in performance but all I'm really needing/wanting is the 27" display. Maybe my projects in Xcode will compile faster but I'm not at a point yet in my coding where my apps are big enough to require the extra power of a Mac Pro over a 2010 13" MBP.

Then you have professional writers. I bet most of them would prefer a notebook. You don't need extra HW performance to keep up with keystrokes (unless you are using the Surface RT )

That said, I do plan on getting the fastest model with 2x8GB RAM and Fusion Drive.

1) Good point; that should work.

2) Yep, I am aware. And all will go to the dumpster once all is digitized. And yes, Apple shouldn't hang on to old tech, and I'm certain the new MP won't be getting FW.

Haha the keystroke lag! I read @ AnandTech that it didn't catch all strokes.

I'm positive you're going to like that iMac, ETA Nov 23, no? From what you wrote here it is entirely possible that a Mini would've sufficed as well. A crying shame you can't get the 30" ACD anymore. I really hope the glare on those 27" screens aren't that visibly (or annoying) - I simply couldn't get anything other than the MP + ACD back in 2010 as I use it for my photography hobby.

Any apps you create commercially? With your vast amount of informative posts I'd be interested in what you've created.

1) What makes this worse is that the OS takes up a lot of space, which is why it has to start at 32GB, not 16GB. You get more usable storage when you compare the $499 iPad to the $499 Surface, but not that much more. I bet their updates and apps will still be bloated which will make any typical app pool use more than on an iDevice.

To me, that means that people will want the 64GB for "real work". That means you have to pay $200 more for 32GB (Apple charges you $100)... but you also get the TouchCover with it. But if you really are going to use this as a notebook replacement with no compromise you'll have to get the TypeCover, which is another $130. That's $829, as much as the 64GB iPad with 4G LTE.

Now you're getting into the range of a good quality Windows 8 notebook that runs a much higher performing Intel chip where you can type well, use all your old Windows apps, and probably have at least a 500GB HDD or 128GB SSD. That's the low end of the Ultrabooks, right?


2) I'm getting the 27" so I have to wait until some undetermined time in December. Yes, a Mac mini would be plenty powerful but add to that $1000 for an Apple Thunderbolt Display and I'm at iMac prices with less performance and options.
Edited by SolipsismX - 10/28/12 at 9:23am

1) I also concluded as much from the reviews, and my feeling tells me they'll sell a boatload at launch, and then it'll drop. Could pick up if the prices get dropped, but I'm uncertain of that. They supposedly spent 9 billion on R&D, and the component costs are of course higher than what Apple pays due to lower volume. Indeed, people will be better off with a low end Ultrabook. If this is going to be the case, I sympathize with MS as they really put in the effort. Too late, perhaps. What do I know

2) True, a Mini with an ATD(correct acronym?) will cost more than an iMac. (I do believe it has more ports than your 2010 MBP.) Although if things go awry you could get a different Mini or Display if going that route. Yes, that is a negative thing to think, but should be Taken (pun intended, thanks!) into consideration. My MP once died, and I was happy to borrow a friends' while it was in repair and I still had my monitor.

 

Okay, I gotcha now. I didn't get where you were going with that the first time. I mean well but I'm just not that bright!

 

What you're suggesting *does* seem like a perfectly reasonable approach to a facility-wide solution. I can see the potential efficiency benefits for certain workflows but I'm not sure it is any more universally efficient or cost-effective than powerful stand-alone workstations, especially in settings where creative is a comparatively small section within a larger Windows-based enterprise.

 

I also often have need to do serious work in the field, and for that I need a powerful, portable workstation. The distributed processing model doesn't work in that application.

 

I think for all but larger, collaborative, project-oriented facilities it's still better to have self-contained workstations.

 

Fair enough. Replace "flawed" with "inadequate." I realize that's subjective, but I think it's fair in that context.

 

I have the same unit for the same reason. The Blackmagic Design units are excellent alternatives, and are part of the reason I wanted to upgrade to a newer machine with USB3. They make Thunderbolt versions, but they cost 1/3 more AND require that $50 cable.

 

 

True, but I can rip a DVD (and some people successfully rip Blu-Rays without having their machine crash on them the way mine does) so I can watch them anywhere on anything anytime, including transferring them to that iPad.

 

 

 

Do they? Can I get a Pro with Thunderbolt? USB3? Buss speeds consistent with current software demands? The existing offering is a good machine, but not exactly current.  It's also kinda spendy for work that requires more than consumer-level performance but not necessarily high-end, like music production, pre-press or basic video editing. The iMac recently become viable in that role, and it's disappointing to see it regressing.

 

Then there's field work. The current crop of MacBook Pros are still okay (so far) but the decline is already becoming evident as the lower-end models lose dedicated graphics, large, cost-effective storage devices are dumped to make them more like the consumer device they already sell (Air) and the large-screen version is dropped altogether.

Edited by v5v - 10/28/12 at 10:28am

1) Please. A $50 cable is too much?

2) I've never tried ripping a BR disc, but I should as I have some great documentaries like Planet Earth that I would love to see but my *cough* Samsung *cough* BR DVD player is, well, shyte. It makes a ton of noise, the remote is utterly frustrating, and... Well, you get the picture. Did you rip BR on your MP?

3) I understand everyone's gripe with the Mac Pro not being up to standard, not recent. But looking at it the other way around, from an iMac perspective is the wrong way I think: that PC might be able to do so heavy stuff, but should be bought by Pro's who want to do Pro stuff. Compress, decompress, outputting to different video formats, all video editing stuff should be done on a machine with more than one internal HDD, for scratch drive and such. Sure, you can connect TB drives to an iMac, but that'll be more expensive, if money is an object.

3a) yeah, that 17 inch is sorely missed. Fortunately we still can see the midget/tall guy commercial

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cuP4UtbqyMs

Yes PC makers are afraid to do what Apple does, PC makers are afraid to charge like $1700 for a $900 ultabook, they re afraid to sell a $900 all in one desktop for $1500, they are afraid to sell a 2-generation old tablet in a slightly smaller case and call it a new product, and charge a large premium over competing products.

 

There is nothing wrong with what Apple is doing, just like there is nothing wrong with BMW or Lexus  charging a premium for a commodity with a nice twist but BMW and Lexus let their products stand on their own, they dont compare themselves to Fiat or Chevy in public...

 

You've no idea what you're talking about.

Edited by Tallest Skil - 10/28/12 at 4:29pm

 

Yes. Adding $50 to every single device in the chain is too much. Especially when $50 is 20-30% of the price of the unit it's connecting. Also especially when I'm already paying a substantial premium for a device that's Thunderbolt capable in the first place. I understand that it's a sophisticated connector for a complicated system but I don't care. USB3 is more than overkill for most of the applications in which one might consider Thunderbolt (obviously not ALL applications, but most), and the cables are three bucks.

 

 

 

No, I was trying to do it with my 2011 Mini. I read NewEgg reviews on various models of external BD drives looking for ones Mac users reported working for them. I bought such a unit but inserting a disc just crashed my Mac. I spent days trying various firmware and software fixes, and in doing so expired the return window for the drive. My enthusiasm for Blu-Ray ripping diminished substantially after that.

 

If that's what people really care about, screw people. In my book, they can do just about anything short of pee on their customers in effigy as long as the products keep being the best on the market. And the market is what will actually determine their success.

 

Cut to a photoshopped picture of Phil Schiller in the "Calvin peeing on X" pose… 

 

Share price had nothing to public speaking abilities and everything to do with the Numbers. Analysts didn't like lower iPad sales number and lower iPad ASP.  Also guidance for the next quarter from Apple was lower than expected IIRC.

 

The actual keynote doesn't affect much. No one but Uber Nerds watch keynotes. I am a nerd and I follow this stuff closely, but I didn't watch the keynote. I haven't seen a single clip from it. I just read the info after it comes out.

Easy to say when your company only holds a small portion of the personal computer market. If it were reversed and Apple owned 90%ish of the market they wouldn't be able to easily drop legacy hardware support. 

They just dropped the iPad 3 from the line up and they drop iPod designs almost yearly.

 

Of course they would. You really need to give up this nonsense.

And you know this how?

 

Because they do it where they DO have 90% marketshare! 

People don't view their iPods the way they do iPads, and I'd say the vast majority of 3rd gen iPad owners don't really care it was so quickly replaced.

Where? What have they taken out of the iPad or iPod that was there before?

I have become to hate burning discs now. My DVD drive has not been used to write anything for ages. I also used to convert my installation disc to .iso for storage but since all of them now available to download, my ODD just sitting idle. Good riddance Apple. Don't bother with Blu-Ray too. PS3 and standalone is available for cheap. We just write everything onto HDDs. They are as cheap as bananas.

It's the home theater market, not the computer market.  

 

And it's completely normal to want to watch movies on a large screen in a comfy chair rather than on a computer.  They're simply two different markets.  

Here is the fundamental flaw with their strategy on removing the HDD all together, I agree moving parts is not a good thing it can be damage and wear out. However, a HDD can write a bit to the same location hundred of millions of times and as long as the drive is still spinning and functional you can retrieve that data. Not true with SSD. SSD wear out faster than an HDD does especially if you use applications which write lots of data and erase it. Which most modern OS do to daywith scratch files and caches and logs files. As all Mac users know and have experience with is mac live forever, not unusually to hear people say their mac is 5, 6 or 10 yrs old. With and SSD you may not get that long of life out of them and if you power them down for a period of time you may not be able to retreive the data from the SSD.

I'm all for progress. I'm all for letting one technology ride off into the sunset in favor of technologically superior ones. Streaming videos and streaming music, is, in no way, superior to disc-based version. More convenient? Possibly. Technologically better? Absolutely not. The quality of streaming video and music does not hold a candle to discs.

RAM goes bad all the time. Drives go bad all the time. Good luck to you when it happens. If it happens to me, I buy some at Newegg for $20 and spend 5 minutes replacing it.

 

That's probably a $150 service on one of these devices with the memory glued in.

 

Except they already surpass the quality of any disc you could have put in the machine, so it's fine to have removed the optical drive.

 

$20 gets you a refurbished 80GB hard drive or anywhere from a 2GB set to 4GB stick of RAM that is likely incompatible with any machine. Don't hyperbolize.

You don't know what you're talking about.  I just paid $40 for 8 GB (2 x 4 GB). When RAM dies, it doesn't usually take other RAM with it, so you usually just replace a single "stick". 

 

Streaming music, at best, is 360 kbps--nowhere near the quality of a physical disc. If you want full quality, you have to rip at lossless bit rate. There's a reason Apple includes a lossless bitrate--it sounds better.

 

And do you really mean to suggest that a 4.8 GB "HD" copy from iTunes surpasses a 40 GB copy from a Blu ray?

 

Even on mediocre equipment you can see and hear a big difference in quality. On good equipment? There is absolutely no comparison.

 

That sounds exactly like what I just said. Did you not read what I said before coming to the conclusion that I was wrong?

 

 

Yeah, you didn't read ANYTHING that I said.

Yes, I read everything you said. You said:

 

"Except they already surpass the quality of any disc you could have put in the machine, so it's fine to have removed the optical drive."

 

 

 

Yep, for all relevant uses.

 

Nope.

 

Nope.

 

Which is why I didn't say it.

Wha?

 

Go back and read your post. You said:

 

"$20 gets you a refurbished 80GB hard drive or anywhere from a 2GB set to 4GB stick of RAM that is likely incompatible with any machine. Don't hyperbolize."