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Phil Schiller says Apple does with its Macs what PC makers are 'afraid' to do - Page 3

post #81 of 232

I cannot imagine amassing a library of DVD/B-Ray movies and then making backups that I lug around in the chance that the backups are damaged and I have to resort to recopying from my originals.

 

My largest purchase was the 27-disc DVD set of the tv series King of Queens and hopefully it will be my last. I applaud any and all efforts to move away from spinning plastic. Working with discs of any kind is slow and making backups is even worse.

 

Bravo to Apple for moving aggressively into the future. There will always be those that are kicking and screaming along the way but eventually, Apple is proven correct.

post #82 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

Sure, why put a spinning disc in a computer when we can charge you more for an external one?

 

Bingo.

Considering all of Apple's professional software and iLife suite supports cd/dvd burning capabilities as important 'features' and necessary work-flow for video especially - it's pretty naive to think that they aren't aware of how important the media still is.

 

This is a simple case of form over function - done so that they can market a cool design. Not saying it's right or wrong - but it's the truth.

Making extra profit on external clutter and adapters is Apple's forte after all.

 

Dropping firewire for example - it's just one more casualty in the loooooooong list of Apple's revolutionary maverick design choices that result in yet more expensive adapters.

Is it wrong? Not if your a soccer mom with lots of disposable income. If your a business however - well... that's why they have less then 0.3% business/industry market penetration.

It reinforces that yes, Apple is a consumer gadget provider - and a good one at that. However, business/industry beware.

 

Don't listen to the trolls. If Apple's next cut was the display - half the people on this site would call it revolutionary.

post #83 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Bingo.
Considering all of Apple's professional software and iLife suite supports cd/dvd burning capabilities as important 'features' and necessary work-flow for video especially - it's pretty naive to think that they aren't aware of how important the media still is.

This is a simple case of form over function - done so that they can market a cool design. Not saying it's right or wrong - but it's the truth.
Making extra profit on external clutter and adapters is Apple's forte after all.

Dropping firewire for example - it's just one more casualty in the loooooooong list of Apple's revolutionary maverick design choices that result in yet more expensive adapters.
Is it wrong? Not if your a soccer mom with lots of disposable income. If your a business however - well... that's why they have less then 0.3% business/industry market penetration.
It reinforces that yes, Apple is a consumer gadget provider - and a good one at that. However, business/industry beware.

Don't listen to the trolls. If Apple's next cut was the display - half the people on this site would call it revolutionary.

This is just crazy talk. Just because optical discs are still popular throughout the world in certain usage cases, like a home BRD player, doesn't mean that it's an ideal option for their products. I personally think they held onto the slow, noisy, large, and power hungry ODDs for a couple years too long;y ou can think they got rid of it decades too soon, but all that matters is how this works for Apple's business. Do you really think Apple won't sell Macs because of they eschewed an obsoleting tech? I don't. Im fact, just like with the floppy drive I think they'll sell more Macs than ever before and take an even larger piece of the profit pie from "PC" vendors (of which they are by far the largest).

Firewire? Really? How many fucking people are using FireWire today? Is that really something Apple should hold onto despite it being well over 8 years since they first adopted FireWire800. It didn't catch on like they wanted to because USB 2.0 came along. They switched their iDevice to that long ago and now we have Thunderbolt which has none of FireWire's licensing costs or limitations. This is a good thing. You sound like the people that complained when printers moved from parallel cables to USB.

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post #84 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Jeez Louise, you almost made me shoot coffee out of my nose, haha. .... if you're not in advertising or politics, you should be. That's the best "spin" for "failure to perform" that I've ever seen. Congrats! (btw ... the Apple iMac is the #1 selling desktop computer out there)

But it's not the number one platform. I've had plenty of spinning practice with my girlfriends lol
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #85 of 232
For me I still use my dvd drive regularly for a varietyy of functions but I see where Apple's going with it. An external dvd drive is also much easier to repair than an internal one.
post #86 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why use a spinning disc when you can use something that won't fail due to the motion required to use it?

I'd really like to replace my desktop's 4TB of spinners for SSDs, but that would jeopardise my other interests, hobbies and money-spenders in general.

In addition, number of laptops - especially small ones - are not being offered with large enough SSD.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for SSDs. It is just that they are still not big enough, affordable enough and even much more reliable than spinners to replace them in majority of usage scenarios. But I'm hoping that time will come soon.
post #87 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I cannot imagine amassing a library of DVD/B-Ray movies and then making backups that I lug around in the chance that the backups are damaged and I have to resort to recopying from my originals.

My largest purchase was the 27-disc DVD set of the tv series King of Queens and hopefully it will be my last. I applaud any and all efforts to move away from spinning plastic. Working with discs of any kind is slow and making backups is even worse.

Bravo to Apple for moving aggressively into the future. There will always be those that are kicking and screaming along the way but eventually, Apple is proven correct.

Many now come with a digital copy that can be easily put on a mobile device. Until streaming is as good as a BR there will always be spinning plastic.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #88 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

[...] but they might surprise me. Just like people buying Blue-Ray DVD's.

 

I buy my media on optical discs because it's harder for the creator to dictate how and where and when I can view it, unlike the @#$%&!!! DRM-encumbered movies on the iTunes store.

post #89 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


I'd really like to replace my desktop's 4TB of spinners for SSDs, but that would jeopardise my other interests, hobbies and money-spenders in general.
In addition, number of laptops - especially small ones - are not being offered with large enough SSD.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for SSDs. It is just that they are still not big enough, affordable enough and even much more reliable than spinners to replace them in majority of usage scenarios. But I'm hoping that time will come soon.

What you say is true, but I think the spinning disk comment was referring to optical media like CDs and DVDs, not hard drives.

 

SSD's are great, but yeah, it's a bit too expensive for most people to upgrade to SSD only, as terrabytes worth of SSD's would be quite pricey, to put it mildly.

 

A combination of SSD and traditional drives are the best way to go at the moment.

post #90 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeves Staub View Post

It isn't difficult to find a Mac-compatible Blu-ray burner.

 

It *IS*, however, difficult to return one when you find it is NOT Mac-compatible. I bought a Samsung unit from NewEgg based on reviews from Mac users saying it worked for them. For me, it crashes the Mac every singe time I insert a disc. Now I have an expensive paperweight because I didn't give up on finding a way to make it work until after the 7-day return period was up.

 

The moral of the story seems to be: Plug it in the moment it arrives. If it doesn't "Just work" on the first try, send it back immediately.

post #91 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

 

One more thing, Steve (he opens it up at 4:40, pure classic Apple magic):

 

Brilliant!

post #92 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Anybody who complains about Apple removing the optical drive from the newest iMacs just doesn't get it, and you are not cutting edge enough to be an Apple user. 

 

That's the second time you've referred to people having to live up to the requirements of being an Apple owner. It's ridiculous. People have work to do. Cutting edge is a very very very very dangerous and expensive place to be when clients are waiting.

 

What is becoming obvious to more and more of us though is that Apple just doesn't give a shit about that segment of the market because there aren't enough of us. I wouldn't care except that I have a rather sizable investment in software for OSX and I prefer that OS over Windows. I wish Apple would just spin off a "Pro" division to someone else who would be willing to build workstations instead of fashion accessories.

post #93 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I can access my Dropbox, for example, from home, work, on the road, etc. From any device. If it's on the web, it's always there. 

 

Lucky you. I work for a company that's crazy for security so no WiFi. LTE rates for access to my content? No thanks.


Edited by v5v - 10/26/12 at 4:26pm
post #94 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Still, it's a lot of stuff to fiddle with -- DVDs, cases, blank DVDs, Labels, Blank Cases, marking pen, bag to contain them all -- how many and which ones to take, which ones to leave (always wrong)...  You can't take it [all] with you!   The whole idea of being mobile is to just grab your device and go... the stuff you need will be available in the cloud, wherever you go!

Well, I travel a lot. Which means I'm in the clouds (the real ones) a lot. Tough to stream your content from the Cloud when you're in the clouds. I could buy movies on iTunes, but why would I pay more for quality inferior to Blu Ray?

post #95 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

That's the second time you've referred to people having to live up to the requirements of being an Apple owner. It's ridiculous. People have work to do. Cutting edge is a very very very very dangerous and expensive place to be when clients are waiting.

 

What is becoming obvious to more and more of us though is that Apple just doesn't give a shit about that segment of the market because there aren't enough of us. I wouldn't care except that I have a rather sizable investment in software for OSX and I prefer that OS over Windows. I wish Apple would just spin off a "Pro" division to someone else who would be willing to build workstations instead of fashion accessories.

 

If you're running a business that relies on certain things, then of course you have to be more conservative in your upgrade choices, if you still rely on old technologies for your job and you have clients to please and deadlines to meet.

 

Some people whined about Final Cut X when it first came out, but only a fool would have jumped into that head first, without still keeping their original systems and software intact, if they relied on it for any sort of Pro uses. That's just plain common sense.

post #96 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

This is a conversation I've had with people time and again.  Apple pushes forward compared to MS and the pc crowd, who keep themselves locked into a tech, be it good or bad, for what seems like forever because they're afraid to piss off their customers.  Apple has no issue pissing off customers, who get mad and then just buy in and deal with the change.  I'm grateful there is a company like Apple doing this in the tech world.

If it wasn't for Apple, Microsoft would be releasing DOS 8 this month which would ship on a cassette tape.

 

2013 will be THE year, Microsoft assures us all, that the 640K memory limit will be breached.

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post #97 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Why put a spinning disc in a computer that no one will use??

Oh, I get it... because it's all about you!!  So sorry, I didn't realize that your needs and the needs of the other 1% of folks that simply are stuck in 90's tech represent the other 99% of people that frankly will never use it!  

Why stop at ODD?  Why put COM ports, VGA ports, Centronics ports, Floppy drives, etc.  when Apple can charge more for an external one??

Just get lost whiner/troll/basement-dweller, whatever you are...

This is what happens when you don't accept the Apple dogma.

 

Who am I? I'm an iPhone owner (from 3GS to 5), iPad owner, iPod touch owner. But I have a PC, because I don't want to break out my external drive every time I'm on a plane and want to watch a movie.

 

Quite being such a jerk.

post #98 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

But I have a PC, because I don't want to break out my external drive every time I'm on a plane and want to watch a movie.

 

 

You must be one of the last people on planet earth to actually use a physical disc to watch a movie on a plane.

 

I had a powerbook around the year 2000, and that's when I last remember still bringing an actual DVD with me on a flight to watch it.

 

Apple is a forward thinking company, and they're not going to accommodate people such as yourself, that's just the way that it is. 

post #99 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

If you're running a business that relies on certain things, then of course you have to be more conservative in your upgrade choices, if you still rely on old technologies for your job and you have clients to please and deadlines to meet.

 

The problem with the Apple line-up is that certain features of the new machines are really desirable but the trade-offs are destructive or cost-prohibitive.

 

As a random example, BlackMagic Design makes really cool little video capture/monitoring devices in both Thunderbolt and USB3 versions. The Thunderbolt version costs 25% more, PLUS (and this is the biggie) every bloody Thunderbolt device requires a *$50* cable!

 

I (and others like me) certainly can just hold station for now, but eventually our hardware is going to be the equivalent of a Pentium with serial ports. We'll have to upgrade eventually, but Apple isn't offering us the kind of tools we want. That shouldn't mean we don't deserve to use Apple products.

post #100 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/153788/phil-schiller-says-apple-does-with-its-macs-what-pc-makers-are-afraid-to-do/80#post_2220662"]
You must be one of the last people on planet earth to actually use a physical disc to watch a movie on a plane.

I had a powerbook around the year 2000, and that's when I last remember still bringing an actual DVD with me on a flight to watch it.

Apple is a forward thinking company, and they're not going to accommodate people such as yourself, that's just the way that it is. 

They do still sell plenty of portable DVD players you know. He has much company.
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post #101 of 232
one step at time we are heading to the PC being like a TV set.

1) Ensure all parts are soldered in making the difficult / impossible to upgrade. This is good because it means the user will buy a complete new machine instead of just adding extra memory or hard drive etc.
2) Removal of all means of loading data except via internet, this is good so that the user can only get content online so no need for retail stores and supplying physical media.
3) Only allow software approved by the app store. Ensures we get a cut from everything sold,.
4) Only allow storage in the cloud, this is good because we lock the customer in further.

Cant wait until the industry finally manages to adopt this awesome model of computing. Yes I am so glad big corporations are Improving my computing experience one step at a time.
post #102 of 232
one step at time we are heading to the PC being like a TV set.

1) Ensure all parts are soldered in making the difficult / impossible to upgrade. This is good because it means the user will buy a complete new machine instead of just adding extra memory or hard drive etc.
2) Removal of all means of loading data except via internet, this is good so that the user can only get content online so no need for retail stores and supplying physical media.
3) Only allow software approved by the app store. Ensures we get a cut from everything sold,.
4) Only allow storage in the cloud, this is good because we lock the customer in further.

Cant wait until the industry finally manages to adopt this awesome model of computing. Yes I am so glad big corporations are Improving my computing experience one step at a time.
post #103 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

The problem with the Apple line-up is that certain features of the new machines are really desirable but the trade-offs are destructive or cost-prohibitive.

 

As a random example, BlackMagic Design makes really cool little video capture/monitoring devices in both Thunderbolt and USB3 versions. The Thunderbolt version costs 25% more, PLUS (and this is the biggie) every bloody Thunderbolt device requires a *$50* cable!

 

I (and others like me) certainly can just hold station for now, but eventually our hardware is going to be the equivalent of a Pentium with serial ports. We'll have to upgrade eventually, but Apple isn't offering us the kind of tools we want. That shouldn't mean we don't deserve to use Apple products.

I don't do any pro video myself, I'm mostly a music guy, but I know of the BlackMagic boxes. Some of my friends do video.

 

There's always been a premium associated with Mac compatible devices, going back as far as I can remember. 

 

Apple has been quiet on the Mac Pro front for a while, but I think that's going to change next year. 

post #104 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


They do still sell plenty of portable DVD players you know. He has much company.

The bottom line, IMO, is that if somebody still loves their physical discs and needs to watch them while being mobile, then they should just go and buy something else. I'm sure that there are other devices made by other companies that will satisfy their needs. Macs are not for those sorts of people.

post #105 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeves Staub View Post

It isn't difficult to find a Mac-compatible Blu-ray burner.

It *IS*, however, difficult to return one when you find it is NOT Mac-compatible. I bought a Samsung unit from NewEgg based on reviews from Mac users saying it worked for them. For me, it crashes the Mac every singe time I insert a disc. Now I have an expensive paperweight because I didn't give up on finding a way to make it work until after the 7-day return period was up.

The moral of the story seems to be: Plug it in the moment it arrives. If it doesn't "Just work" on the first try, send it back immediately.

I thought the moral of the story was going to be "don't buy Samsung crap".
post #106 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

I think many "blog pundits" misread the purpose behind the iPad mini. They thought it was being released to lower the price point to compete. The real reason was that there are a large number of people that want a much lighter device that is more suitable for reading. Apple delivered a device that weighs slightly less than the Kindle and Nexus 7, while delivering more screen real estate. That's where the value is.

You are right about the acreage and overall advantages, but mostly wrong about weight.

The mini weighs more than any Kindles (reading) except the Fires (other media), and only an ounce less than Nexus 7.

The iPad4 weighs more than any of the Fires.

Of course, its only a few ounces, and anyway, 'the weight ain't the test', especially at that small a difference.

post #107 of 232

Personally, I use my built-in burners all the time.

 

I send a lot of jobs to the printer. Their courier is in my office delivering things everyday so it is sometimes easier for me to just hand him a DVD with the next job rather than spend the time to upload it and then they have to spend the time to download it plus the maintenance to delete the server copy when the job is complete. Those files are really big.

 

Also with the DVD version they just toss it in the job jacket so I automatically get another back up.

 

If there is a problem they can't say that the file was corrupt (unless it was) because there is a read only version that they received.

 

For our accounting I make back-ups on DVD because that sever is not allowed to be on the Internet. Of course it is PC so it has a burner but just saying I use it.

 

When we go to trade shows the conference center audio/video techs have regular music CD players that they use to play the background music and they swap out physical CDs when each speaker comes on stage. I burn several different play lists for the various parts of the event.

 

I often just need a cheap throwaway media to take with me to the copy center. I don't want to hand them them my USB drive that might have additional files on it. I just want them to have only the print files nothing more and they don't even have to return the disc.

 

I often download the DVD.iso of the CentOS and burn it when building new servers. Sure you can make it boot from a USB stick but it is sort of a hassle.

 

I could go on but it doesn't bother me that Apple removed the drive. I'll just use some other computer that still has one whenever I need it. Just saying that I still use the discs quite a bit but only when it is an appropriate media. I have plenty of storage in our datacenter and I have also written a really nice file sharing application similar to Dropbox that runs on our server so it is not like I'm clinging to the past.

 

I realize my usage is not all that typical but I still don't think that optical media is completely dead either. If you want the latest kit from Apple you have to live with whatever they have decided to provide. Otherwise buy something else.

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post #108 of 232
It never occurred to me that I was paying for a DVD drive in every computer and likely not using more than one if any over any given time.

I do burn discs very frequently (probably 1-2 per week). I would not mind buying a separate drive knowing it will likely be my last ever.
post #109 of 232

You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.

 

700

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post #110 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.


Today's iDevices are thin enough to be just as daunting to pick up off the ground for certain people. 1biggrin.gif


Seriously though, I understand if people wish that the ODD or FW was still present but those are seem to dumbstruck by the very notion that Apple would remove these in 2012 is mind boggling. I can't see how anyone reasonable doesn't realize when they are using obsolescing tech.

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post #111 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.


At least he can still see his disk LOL
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post #112 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.

 

700

I once had a client like that. It was a government job but I failed to budget into the contract that he would break every single chair in our office including the couch and the toilet during the course of that 3 month project.

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post #113 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

It never occurred to me that I was paying for a DVD drive in every computer and likely not using more than one if any over any given time.

 

Which has me wondering now, how come the device has fewer drives but the price hasn't gone down?

 

The current hard drive offerings cost the same as or less than last year's did at the time. Same with CPU and RAM. So how come no price drop to reflect the removed component?

post #114 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
Which has me wondering now, how come the device has fewer drives but the price hasn't gone down?

 

The current hard drive offerings cost the same as or less than last year's did at the time. Same with CPU and RAM. So how come no price drop to reflect the removed component?

More pixie dust. Laminated screen, friction stir welds, plus the options, even if you don't order them, like the hybrid drive and SSD. R and D costs money you know. Higher wages in China, low screen yields, decreased demand for desktops, decline of dollar, election year uncertainty, inflation, supplier issues with Samsung, etc. The price is what it is.

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post #115 of 232
Still feel the iPad mini is a fraction over priced.
Me wants the Mini but Me wants it cheap :-(
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Me wants the Mini but Me wants it cheap :-(
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post #116 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

More pixie dust. Laminated screen, friction stir welds, plus the options, even if you don't order them, like the hybrid drive and SSD. R and D costs money you know. Higher wages in China, low screen yields, decreased demand for desktops, decline of dollar, election year uncertainty, inflation, supplier issues with Samsung, etc. The price is what it is.

And yet somehow it always adds up to $1299.
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post #117 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


And yet somehow it always adds up to $1299.

 

No...the bottom-of-the-line iMac has previously been $1199 for many years now.

post #118 of 232

Apple are able to push the envelope because generally speaking Apple users are more pragmatic and are used to Apple getting it right even if they initially complained.

post #119 of 232
Originally Posted by rain View Post
Don't listen to the trolls.

 

This is good advice: never listen to rain for any reason.


Originally Posted by Darthgorilla View Post
Still feel the iPad mini is a fraction over priced.

 

Yeah, 1/10th of a cent.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #120 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

Sure, why put a spinning disc in a computer when we can charge you more for an external one?

 

If you really think Apple did away with internal drives so they profit from their external drives, then I suggest you do yourself a favor and bash your head against a wall a few times. 

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