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Microsoft exec promotes value of Windows 8 PCs, calls iPad mini a $329 'recreational tablet' - Page 5

post #161 of 193
10/28/12 at 4:29am
More anecdotal evidence that this could be a dud. And interesting that the better cover for typing (type cover) is not the one bundled with the surface. The touch cover looks cool but is much more prone to typing errors.

http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

"I’m typing this with gritted teeth. My 24 hours with the half-baked Surface have been a frustrating challenge, a mix of love and hate. I want want want this to work, but one problem after another have led me to come to the conclusion – a temporary one at least – that this thing just isn’t ready to ship."
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post #162 of 193
10/28/12 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

The Verge has come out with their surface review. They gave it a 7. From the review:
"Maybe I say this too often, but I wanted to love this device. Actually, I wanted to love the Surface when I first saw it, before I even got my hands on the review unit. It made Windows 8 make sense in a way other products had not, and I could see a world where this kind of device was the only one I carried with me. Once I did get the review unit, I wanted to love it even more. And truth be told, there is a lot here to love. Plenty — but not enough for me right now.
The promise of the Surface was that it could deliver a best-in-class tablet experience, but then transform into the PC you needed when heavier lifting was required. Instead of putting down my tablet and picking up my laptop, I would just snap on my keyboard and get my work done. But that's not what the Surface offers, at least not in my experience. It does the job of a tablet and the job of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one.
There may be a time in the future when all the bugs have been fixed, the third-party app support has arrived, and some very smart engineers in Redmond have ironed out the physical kinks in this type of product which prevent it from being all that it can be. But that time isn't right now — and unfortunately for Microsoft, the clock is ticking."
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review

 

Probably the only reason they gave it a 7 was because they were hoping to give it a 10. Without being graded on the "not-from-Apple" curve, it's probably really a 4 or 5 at best.

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post #163 of 193
10/28/12 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

More anecdotal evidence that this could be a dud. And interesting that the better cover for typing (type cover) is not the one bundled with the surface. The touch cover looks cool but is much more prone to typing errors.
http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/
"I’m typing this with gritted teeth. My 24 hours with the half-baked Surface have been a frustrating challenge, a mix of love and hate. I want want want this to work, but one problem after another have led me to come to the conclusion – a temporary one at least – that this thing just isn’t ready to ship."


There is also this: http://www.zdnet.com/three-days-in-the-life-of-a-once-and-former-microsoft-surface-rt-user-7000006421/

I think there are 5 major issues for every great idea with this device but these comments are no different than the anti-Apple crowd finding someone who pooh-poohed the product. The difference is we aren't seeing too many glowing reviews. The ones that praise also seem to give it a pass because it had to compete with an Apple product, which I find unfair.

Personally, I've analyzed this device and find it having too may issues to be a success. No Active Directory access for the ARM version means that it can't easily usurp iPad in the Enterprise. The x86 version being in Ultrabook prices but without the battery, ability to use on a lap or adjustable screen of a proper notebook. The ARM version, as you note, coming only with the Touch Cover so if you buy the 64GB model you then have to spend another $130 for the TypeCover for any real typing. The confusing nature of two fundamentally different Surface products running two fundamentally different versions of Windows, yet both with the Metro UI and traditional UI.

I could go on an on but the bottom line is they "Homer Car"-ed this without making a great tablet, mobile OS, or a great desktop OS.

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post #164 of 193
10/28/12 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Probably the only reason they gave it a 7 was because they were hoping to give it a 10. Without being graded on the "not-from-Apple" curve, it's probably really a 4 or 5 at best.

 

Yes. If you read the details in the review, a 7 was generous.  Then read that user review Rogifan posted.

 

It matches up well with the Verge review.  This is only the start. At least that guy knew what he was getting. Wait till the people who think they are getting a Windows 8 tablet that runs real Windows software end up with RT devices.

 

So many of the big review sound more like PR than critical reviews. Josh at Verge does very in depth tech reviews and the tradition continues here.

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post #165 of 193
10/28/12 at 7:50am
He's right, it is recreational. It is not meant for business. But it could be used for business. Or college...or anything you want...

 

 


Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees
-Michael Steeber

 

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Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees
-Michael Steeber

 

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post #166 of 193
10/28/12 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There is also this: http://www.zdnet.com/three-days-in-the-life-of-a-once-and-former-microsoft-surface-rt-user-7000006421/
I think there are 5 major issues for every great idea with this device but these comments are no different than the anti-Apple crowd finding someone who pooh-poohed the product. The difference is we aren't seeing too many glowing reviews. The ones that praise also seem to give it a pass because it had to compete with an Apple product, which I find unfair.
Personally, I've analyzed this device and find it having too may issues to be a success. No Active Directory access for the ARM version means that it can't easily usurp iPad in the Enterprise. The x86 version being in Ultrabook prices but without the battery, ability to use on a lap or adjustable screen of a proper notebook. The ARM version, as you note, coming only with the Touch Cover so if you buy the 64GB model you then have to spend another $130 for the TypeCover for any real typing. The confusing nature of two fundamentally different Surface products running two fundamentally different versions of Windows, yet both with the Metro UI and traditional UI.
I could go on an on but the bottom line is they "Homer Car"-ed this without making a great tablet, mobile OS, or a great desktop OS.
So I'm assuming then with SurfaceRT I cannot access my work network drives or does it have VPN access? I know where I work they're not allowing us to VPN on an iPad (yet).
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post #167 of 193
10/28/12 at 8:13am
I keep hearing about how the "fit and finish" is as nice or nicer than what you get from Apple. But it sounds more like Microsoft PR or just spin from pro-Microsoft media. Remember the initial spin from the media was Microsoft had to create Surface to show their OEM's how it's done because OEM's like HP, Dell, Acer, etc. are clueless and couldn't design their way out of a paper bag. And surprise, surprise, the surface comes out and these same people praise it for having Apple like design. Seems a bit suspicious to me.
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post #168 of 193
10/28/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So I'm assuming then with SurfaceRT I cannot access my work network drives or does it have VPN access? I know where I work they're not allowing us to VPN on an iPad (yet).

I don't know. I haven't yet seen a full review of the device in the Enterprise. Maybe something like LogMeIn would work through the IE browser.

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post #169 of 193
10/28/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't know. I haven't yet seen a full review of the device in the Enterprise. Maybe something like LogMeIn would work through the IE browser.
Hmm...seems to me SurfaceRT is just an iPad that includes Office lite and USB, but unlike the iPad has a dearth of quality apps. And it seems to me Microsoft is just fine having the general public think SurfaceRT is just like Windows 8. But we'll see how long that lasts if people start returning the device in numbers.

What I find odd is the 3 month gap between RT and Pro. If people have a less than pleasant experience with RT won't that sour them on wanting a pro? Or will the people who want a Pro just hold out until next year?
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post #170 of 193
10/28/12 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmm...seems to me SurfaceRT is just an iPad that includes Office lite and USB, but unlike the iPad has a dearth of quality apps. And it seems to me Microsoft is just fine having the general public think SurfaceRT is just like Windows 8. But we'll see how long that lasts if people start returning the device in numbers.
What I find odd is the 3 month gap between RT and Pro. If people have a less than pleasant experience with RT won't that sour them on wanting a pro? Or will the people who want a Pro just hold out until next year?

1) From what I can tell even LogMeIn won't work on the Surface RT but it does appear to have Remote Desktop (client mode only) so that is something.

2) If anyone can afford to wait it's MS but even that has its limits. I think their window of opportunity is closing fast. Windows 8 has to be a hit or we'll just see an increase in the constant chipping away at their marketshare, which affects every part of their business. Personally, I think they've royally screwed themselves by not knowing what not to exclude from their products which has made it all very, very confusing.

3) Do you think tomorrow we'll be getting info about the first weekend sales of Windows 8 and/or Surface RT?

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post #171 of 193
10/28/12 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

If it were anybody but Microsoft, you think NBC would have covered up for them like that?

 

 

Of course they would have. They would have looked like shits if they didn't.

 

The real question if they would have had to. 

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post #172 of 193
10/28/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) From what I can tell even LogMeIn won't work on the Surface RT but it does appear to have Remote Desktop (client mode only) so that is something.
2) If anyone can afford to wait it's MS but even that has its limits. I think their window of opportunity is closing fast. Windows 8 has to be a hit or we'll just see an increase in the constant chipping away at their marketshare, which affects every part of their business. Personally, I think they've royally screwed themselves by not knowing what not to exclude from their products which has made it all very, very confusing.
3) Do you think tomorrow we'll be getting info about the first weekend sales of Windows 8 and/or Surface RT?
We never got sales info about the pr-orders so my guess is they're going to take the Amazon/Google route and not release numbers. The only company that Wall Street seems to care about sales figures for is Apple.
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post #173 of 193
10/28/12 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

That's because no one has bought the device. And you DON't have to do that on the iPad...
 

 

Actually you do. If you haven't used said app recently. If you have then it's likely in your task bar so it's a quicker switch. 

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post #174 of 193
10/28/12 at 10:10am
What better evidence that MS has no clue how to grow a company and prosper. They're apparently not interested in the "recreational" market. Which happens to be where all the growth is these days.

It's not quite time to add MS to the large heap of American companies that have already failed or are well on their way to failure. The more I look at tech in the commercial arena, the more I see non US products where the USA used to rule. Medical being the most pronounced.
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post #175 of 193
10/28/12 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

That's because no one has bought the device. And you DON't have to do that on the iPad...
 

Actually you do. If you haven't used said app recently. If you have then it's likely in your task bar so it's a quicker switch. 

What does a Surface RT do under the same conditions?... If you haven't used the app recently and it's not in your task bar.

On the iPad it's fine if you only have a few apps running -- it is very easy to get between them by a four finger swipe. If you have lots of apps in your taskbar it is easier to do a four finger Up swipe and then rapidly flip through the taskbar, 7 apps per flip, to the desired app.

With the four finger gestures, including the four finger pinch to get to the home screen -- I find that I rarely have to use the Home button on the iPad.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 10/28/12 at 11:00am
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post #176 of 193
10/28/12 at 11:29am
Way to go Ballmer. Guess you'll have to keep c|net, Engadget, ZDNet, TechRadar etc. on your payroll for a little while longer. lol.gif

Poll: Scant demand for Microsoft's Windows
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post #177 of 193
10/28/12 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Tell that to all the companies that use iPads exclusively for business.  That includes mine.  Just about every executive has an iPad hooked up to Exchange and creating documents etc.

I hope they're not creating docs on iPads ... else your company is going down the drain soon ... 

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post #178 of 193
10/28/12 at 2:14pm
Originally Posted by kheba View Post
I hope they're not creating docs on iPads...

 

Maybe try so much as looking at an iPad before saying things about it, hmm?

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #179 of 193
10/28/12 at 2:52pm
So the pro Microsoft media claims the surface has a better fit and finish than Apple's products. Um, sorry, I don't think you'd ever see this many visible screws on an Apple product. Plus I see plenty of visible seams. It might be better than the rest of the non-Applr hardware out there but that's a pretty low bar. lol.gif

dsc03375-1350896293.jpg
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post #180 of 193
10/28/12 at 2:54pm
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Um, sorry, I don't think you'd ever see this many visible screws on an Apple product.

 

1000

 

Different colors = different screw types.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #181 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I could go on an on but the bottom line is they "Homer Car"-ed this without making a great tablet, mobile OS, or a great desktop OS.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner...

 

"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #182 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

1000

 

Different colors = different screw types.

 

That's just screwed up.

"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #183 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



Different colors = different screw types.
Well I guess I screwed up. lol.gif Though I still would take apple design over the surface any day of the week. Doesn't look like there's anything adjustable with the kickstand so you're stuck with whatever angle that is whether it's comfortable for you or not. If only Apple was clever enough to think of a mechanical kickstand. 1tongue.gif
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post #184 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Well I guess I screwed up. lol.gif Though I still would take apple design over the surface any day of the week. Doesn't look like there's anything adjustable with the kickstand so you're stuck with whatever angle that is whether it's comfortable for you or not. If only Apple was clever enough to think of a mechanical kickstand. 1tongue.gif

I am sure there will be a huge marked for "kickstand angle adjusting devices".1wink.gif
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post #185 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:42pm
So Sinofsky claims Windows 8 PC's are a better value than Apple and claims you can get one for $279. So I guess then he thinks the SurfaceRT is overpriced? I'd be curious to know exactly what kind of value you get for $279...

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/10/26/microsofts-steven-sinofsky-windows-8-pcs-are-better-value-than/
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post #186 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So Sinofsky claims Windows 8 PC's are a better value than Apple and claims you can get one for $279. So I guess then he thinks the SurfaceRT is overpriced? I'd be curious to know exactly what kind of value you get for $279...
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/10/26/microsofts-steven-sinofsky-windows-8-pcs-are-better-value-than/

Look, it's a very simple calculation.

Just count how many tiles per $ you get with windows 8.

OS X or iOS will never be able to compete.
Edited by Rabbit_Coach - 10/28/12 at 4:41pm
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post #187 of 193
10/28/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

I know in my company *20billion not fortune500*, its start going from blackberry to iphone, but now they have stopped iphone implementation due to cost, and are going to a variety of android handsets.

No mac's of course, as we have EDS, an HP  company, supplying us Dells

:V

It sounds like your company is not very smart! Android devices are relatively the same end user cost as iPhones. Especially when you factor in the iPhone 4 for free and 4s at $99. Since Android is prone to malware, and since the upgrade path for the OS is unreliable because its controlled by the carriers, and since the professional grade apps on Android are anemic, this makes absolutely no sense.
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post #188 of 193
10/28/12 at 4:41pm
Nothing wrong 'recreational' tablets, especially if people are interested in them and buy them.
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post #189 of 193
10/28/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post


No even Pergo's surface seems more polished! 1biggrin.gif
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post #190 of 193
10/29/12 at 9:16am
How can the Surface "suffice" on longer business trips without cellular connectivity? At least you can buy any model iPad with cellular. And, there are hundreds of thousands of applications currently available for the iPad. There isn't even a native Facebook app. (Although it did take quite a while for the iPad version to appear as well).
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post #191 of 193
10/29/12 at 9:29am
It takes serious engineering the create the cheapest possible Win 8 product. Microsoft tries hard to create a crappy product. Props to them.
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post #192 of 193
10/29/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tasslehawf View Post

It takes serious engineering the create the cheapest possible Win 8 product. Microsoft tries hard to create a crappy product. Props to them.

 

"We expect the Surface pads to have a similar impact on the PC industry as the Zune did in portable music players," 
— Canalys Analyst Tim Coulling

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post #193 of 193
10/29/12 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 If only Apple was clever enough to think of a mechanical kickstand. 1tongue.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

I am sure there will be a huge marked for "kickstand angle adjusting devices".1wink.gif

 

And another big market for things that will quiet that loud "crick" sound the kickstand makes when you go to use it...

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