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Apple execs Scott Forstall and John Browett to leave company [u] - Page 4

post #121 of 226

Maybe they just hired Browett so they would have somebody crappy to fire when somebody important left the company, so they'd balance each other out. Or maybe Ron Johnson is having second thoughts about JC Penney (which would be good). It's hard for me to see Forstall's departure as positive, but it's hard to say what was going on behind the scenes. If he wasn't into what he was doing, or he was causing internal friction, it's probably just as well that he leaves. 

 

Maybe he will start a new company making something innovative--if thermostats are his thing, I can see the competition in that industry really heating up.

post #122 of 226
I don't want to bad mouth Scott, but suing the iPhone 5 keynote, he did not look or act totally like himself.

IMHO, I think may have a drug problem. . .
post #123 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

SolipsismX, you're quiet!

I've got nothing to add that already hasn't been expressed. From what about Scott's work at Apple he seemed to be great so I'll miss him, but glad that Browett will be leaving.

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post #124 of 226

It's interesting to see this development.  Having Jony Ive take over Human Interface across the board could present a change of course for the look and feel of iOS and OS X.  This will have to be coordinated with Craig Federighi though, as he's going to be leading both iOS and OS X teams.  

 

I personally look forward to the changes Ive will bring to iOS and OS X.   We've all seen how classy he makes the products look.  It's time to see how classy he can make the software look.

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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post #125 of 226
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

 

Well, at least we now know why he wasn't at the recent product rollout.

 

I think he's front row, fourth in:  Ive, Mansfield, Riccio, Forstall (or someone who bears a close resemblance?).

post #126 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

As a former colleague of Scott's the comment is that of a fool. As a former colleague of his at NeXT and Apple the notion that one person [outside of Steve] makes the design decisions for the architecture and UI implementations is insulting to the teams of folks that do the heavy lifting. One only realizes how highly focused, detailed oriented and passionate the teams are at Apple, relative to the rest of the industry, after one leaves to try out new digs.

 

Most people in the industry are hacks. Most computer science majors consider themselves Engineers. They aren't. They never will be. Completely different disciplines. Most people in this industry are ill-suited to being in this industry, much like the Medical world. People go where the money flows and it often results in a complete waste of time for them and confrontations with driven people who have zero tolerance for ill-suited bodies filling up slots other people more well-suited should occupy.

 

Being both a M.E. and CS gives me that unique understanding.

 

Scott is a driven person. Whatever he decides to focus on I'm sure it will probably center around his work with Siri and other human-machine relationships.

 

There are tens of thousands of jobs at Apple where you will never come across Scott or anyone inside Apple Engineering. If you want in, bring your passion or step aside. It's very simple.

In your opinion, you think Federeghi is as capable as Forstall in leading the iOS team?

 

On a side note, a really interesting take on today's exec shake-up;

 

http://daringfireball.net/2012/10/forstall_out

post #127 of 226
I think the thing with Forstall is that he rubbed a lot of people too hard and the wrong way. His HUGE ego couldn't fit in a stadium. But then could Steve Job's ego?

I think the final straw was Bob Mansfield saying he was retiring. I think that Tim Cook heard things from other top people in Apple saying they were thinking about leaving too if Forstall was going to stay and Mansfield was leaving.

Notice the timing of this and when Forstall sold almost all (95%?). I think he found out then that he wasn't going to be around long term anymore.

And I think the "advisor" roll isn't really that at all. It is just a title to keep him out of the way but employed until he hits another stock option and/or to pay him hush money so he doesn't directly compete and also that he doesn't start saying bad things about Apple.

I'm serious that I think there is a tie-in with Mansfield leaving and then coming back plus the hard feelings Forstall has been creating all around Apple for years. As someone else said on another site, I think it was only a matter of time before Forstall was out after Steve Jobs, his protector, was gone.
 
post #128 of 226

I thought something was up when he Forstall wasn't included in anything.

 

I also thought it was unusual that Bertrand Serlet Was in the audience during the last keynote. I saw him... Think he might come back? Or maybe he just always attends and its the first time I noticed him.

post #129 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

If I had to guess, the whole Maps things didn't help Forstall's position in executive management. There may have been other reasons. He's not just being fired though since he'll be around in an advisor role for a little while. What will be interesting is where he will show up again. He probably wants to run his own company and that may not have been in the future with the Cook era underway. Well, at least we now know why he wasn't at the recent product rollout.

 

Browett on the other hand, looks like he was just fired.

 

What's also curious is what's left. Eddy Cue is pretty much taking over all app development, be it iOS or OS X. Craig Federighi is going to be the operating system czar. And Bob Mansfield, who had previously announced retirement from the hardware group is now head of the new Technologies group. This should be an interesting position for him since it handles all of Apple's chipmaking operations into his org. Talk about a growing business.

Cook was chosen to be the heir, and Forstallis not.  I would not be surprised that he wants to be the CEO of another tech company.  He sold all (or almost all) his stocks earlier in the year.  Are both Siri and the Maps his juridiction?  Everyone, possibly including Jobs, knew that Siri was a work in progress.  Maps is just sloppy and unlike what Apple would normally do.  Cook probably would not want Fostall to be around too.  Apple has a deep bench.  Losing Forstall is no big deal. 


Edited by rsdofny - 10/29/12 at 4:24pm
post #130 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...

 

He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.

 

I agree. Forstall is not an unambitious person and woe to Apple if he signs up with a competitor.

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post #131 of 226

Mark this post...

 

Scott Forstal will not leave.  He will be given a different management position.

Perhaps permanent adviser to Tim Cook.

 

Time will tell.

post #132 of 226

Scott Forstall left an incredible legacy and foundation for iOS to move forward. And I hope it was his decision to go. Nonetheless, I'm not sure he was able to maintain focus and vision. Despite all the excuses, in my opinion, iOS Contacts, Calendar, Podcasts, Maps, and Siri apps are not as functional as they should be at this point in time. That's a lotta half-baked core iOS apps that are a drag on the iOS UX. Period.

 

I love Apple as much as the next guy and have tremendous respect for its executive team, but company needs tend to change. It's kinda like a legend of a championship sports team that simply no longer can lead the team to victory the way he used to. Or, consider how over time great people in otherwise great friendships grow apart. The pace of innovation in the mobile OS market might have been too quick for his team to keep up with. 

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post #133 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post

 

I read that Forstall's relationship with Jony Ive was terrible.  The rumor said Ive refused to attend any meeting that Forstall was at.  Seems likely to me that Forstall burned his bridges and Cook made his decision.

 

Scott sounds like almost a complete duplicate of Steve Jobs. I don't necessarily see his departure as a good thing.

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post #134 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post
I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.

"Continuous Scrolling in iBooks 3".

post #135 of 226

Now that the retail guy is gone, can i dream about a portuguese Apple Store?

 

After the opportunity to watch Depeche Mode here (july, next year), i would love to make a nice quiet trip to the first Portuguese Apple Store.

 

Apple has so much money, why not invest a fraction of it in order to build the power of Apple's name? why not make accelerate immensely the pace of Apple's retail arm growth?  

post #136 of 226

Forstall's exit says a lot about who is in control at Apple. This is a strong, gutsy move by Cook, one I would have never predicted given Forstall's long tenure and key position. But Jobs wouldn't and didn't hand over the company to someone not up to the job. 

 

Today, John Gruber suggested that Forstall's "design taste, engineering management, abrasive style and the whole iOS Maps thing" led to his demise. Gruber described him as a polarizing executive.

post #137 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

No disrespect to Ive, but what does a hardware design guy know about software UI design? they're two different worlds.

 

Clearly, Browett was a terrible mistake and it was recognized early here by everyone familiar with his background.

 

Regarding Forstall and Ive... I agree wholeheartedly. Both types of designers need to collaborate closely. I've never known one person who is equally adept at product engineering, UI design and concept development. Apple needs internal tensions and infighting (within reason) to make sure the best solutions rise to the top. Smoothing over all tensions and installing "yes men" will be very bad for Apple. This is where Steve Jobs brought fear, drive and a desire to be the best in the world to the company. I do not say this lightly... Apple is losing their way.

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post #138 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

It's pathetic and disgusting how everyone here is so quick to throw Scott Forstall under the bus with the 'good riddance' comments, after all he's done for the Apple since the NEXT days, and where SJ obviously believed in him enough to give him so much responsibility. What an utter lack of perspective. This is sad and unexpected news, no reason to be so joyous. Also, hardware design expertise doesnt always translate to software design. Its a different world, for those championing Jony Ive for the role. Forstall is responsible for the most successful mobile platform and mobile appstore in the world, along with software features and paradigms that are now considered standard among the OS of other companies, among many other things at Apple. Give him some fucking credit. 

 

As for Browett, I couldn't care less, since he's had no impact or influence on the success of Apple. But its strange how he could be out so soon after he got the job. Why was he hired in the 1st place? Was due diligence not done? Was he fired because of internet comments? How much could he **** up in a few months that he would be fired?  

 Gotta agree with you on both points.

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post #139 of 226
Both good changes for Apple. I was never comfortable with Forstall heading the group responsible for OS X development. He always seemed more of an iOS guy to me, and I always suspected that he was instrumental in the dumbing down of OS X since Snow Leopard.

And by most accounts, Browett was a disastrous choice to head Apple retail. Hopefully, Tim Cook will make better choices next time.
post #140 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHoule View Post

Forstall's exit says a lot about who is in control at Apple. This is a strong, gutsy move by Cook, one I would have never predicted given Forstall's long tenure and key position. But Jobs wouldn't and didn't hand over the company to someone not up to the job. 

 

Today, John Gruber suggested that Forstall's "design taste, engineering management, abrasive style and the whole iOS Maps thing" led to his demise. Gruber described him as a polarizing executive.

 

Steve Jobs was a polarizing figure.

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post #141 of 226
If Apple thought that then they would keep him. 
post #142 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I've got nothing to add that already hasn't been expressed. From what about Scott's work at Apple he seemed to be great so I'll miss him, but glad that Browett will be leaving.

 

The stock will be pounded severely tomorrow (or whenever Wall Street re-opens)... almost 100% guaranteed.

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post #143 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Scott Forstall is a noted weasel, so good riddance. Browett has been much discussed in these pages, and I don't think there will be many tears shed. Props to Tim!
 

I suspect the cell data overage issue was the straw that killed Forstall

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #144 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

I agree. Forstall is not an unambitious person and woe to Apple if he signs up with a competitor.

If that was true then Apple would make sure that Forstall stuck around. Money talks. If all he wanted was to be CEO and Steve Jobs said no, then he should have left them. Did he think he could muscle his way to CEO? Tim Cook is not soft like he might appear. And I think the thing with Mansfield retiring and coming back has something to do with this. The timing is ... interesting.

 
post #145 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Ironically, didn't Browett just receive his signing bonus (AAPL stock?)  

Yep. Thy likely waited until that cleared so he couldn't claim they wanted to shirk him of everything.

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post #146 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

Steve Jobs was a polarizing figure.

But he was CEO.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #147 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

The stock will be pounded severely tomorrow (or whenever Wall Street re-opens)... almost 100% guaranteed.

Let it be... The stock is irrelevant.

 

What is relevant is that apple is the only tech company that "get's it" and is willing to do something better. The others are parasites.

 

I fail to see why this cannot be a great move in every way. 

post #148 of 226
i think Apple is moving in right direction. Ive can really help changing iOS7 UI. Craig controlling iOS and OS X shows Tim and management are willing to change the UI and User experience for both OS.
post #149 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


I suspect the cell data overage issue was the straw that killed Forstall

Not sure what you mean...the Verizon Wifi-LTE switching issue on the iPhone 5? I thought that was Verizon problem.

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post #150 of 226
As noted by someone on Twitter this might be the first time the comment 'This wouldn't have happened if Steve Jobs were alive" might actually be reasonable.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #151 of 226
Let us hope with more software input from Ive, Apple will get rid of the hideous skeuomorphic UI of calendar, address book, etc. and fast.
post #152 of 226

Stock market will be closed tomorrow because of SANDY!!!

post #153 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

The stock will be pounded severely tomorrow (or whenever Wall Street re-opens)... almost 100% guaranteed.

I don't put any stock, no pun intended, in the stock market or what Wall Street says. They're like vampires.

post #154 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Woah...no Scott...or did I miss him in something?

 

I noticed his absence at the iPad Mini launch and the fact he wasn't in the video...so this was certainly telegraphed.

post #155 of 226

Originally Posted by JBHoule View Post



Forstall's exit says a lot about who is in control at Apple. This is a strong, gutsy move by Cook, one I would have never predicted given Forstall's long tenure and key position. But Jobs wouldn't and didn't hand over the company to someone not up to the job. 

 

Today, John Gruber suggested that Forstall's "design taste, engineering management, abrasive style and the whole iOS Maps thing" led to his demise. Gruber described him as a polarizing executive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

Steve Jobs was a polarizing figure.

Touché, dude, which leads me suspect Apple is betting the farm on the wrong horse...

 

IMHO, the "squares" are taking over and consolidating their positions at Apple...

 

The beginning of the end? Only time will tell.

post #156 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Wasn't Forstall the father of iOS?

More or less, which is what is so shit about all the things in iOS 5 that were working that are now broken, the cell data screw up etc. Forstall isn't some newbie after all.

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post #157 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

What the **** is your point? SJ was also known to be an asshole. That doesn't take away from the other qualities he had. These are character flaws that you put up with, when the person brings so much else to the table

But did Scott bring enough to the table to ignore that he was an asshole. Perhaps he didn't.

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post #158 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Mark this post...

 

Scott Forstal will not leave.  He will be given a different management position.

Perhaps permanent adviser to Tim Cook.

 

Time will tell.

 

Permanent advisor = demotion and a that "Your department's being downsized." "You're part of an outplacement." "We're going in a different direction." "We're not picking up your option." Take your pick. I got more. 

 

Yah think Scott will stick around for that?  Nah, I think he's rather go out and try to form the next NeXT.

post #159 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


Despite his personality problems Forestall is probably the most important employee at Apple.  He is to software what Ive is to hardware.  This announcement should be treated in the same way as if it were announced that Jony Ive was leaving the firm.  It's probably very bad news.  

While Forstall deserves credit for doing amazing things for iOS early on, I think iOS has stagnated quite a bit in recent years. The look is sometimes gaudy and cartoonish. Everything is siloed and excessively app-centric. The lock screen, homescreen, etc. are stuck in 2007. Simple things like moving files are forced into a tedious iTunes syncing process. Not that it all falls on Forstall personally.

I don't know Ive's experience in UIs per se, but I trust his taste and intuition 110%. IMO Apple's software needs to be like its hardware more than vice versa. Personally, I'd love iOS to be more sophisticated and less cartoony.
post #160 of 226
Yes! Forstall's is going, thank god, I couldn't stand that smarmy s.o.b.

He was good at his job and while Maps was a disaster (which I think pushed the release of Aperture 4 back) he wouldn't be kicked for that, nope, he wants to leave, my guess is that he isn't "valued" as much now SJ has gone, he's that kind a guy.

As for the Dixons guy, well, what did ya expect from a Dixons guy, lettin' a fool like that in and look what he did, kick him the hell out!

I like the line up: no women and no political correctness, just the right people for the job!
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