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Apple execs Scott Forstall and John Browett to leave company [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

On skeuomorphism, it has a place, period. Yellow leather is garish, I agree, but do you people REALLY want Windows 8-style minimalism in your applications? I don't care if the answer is yes; the answer's no. I think Jony will still do skeuomorphism, but beautifully, simplistically, incorporating raw "materials" and a contrast between them.

 

Win comment, and my signature now.

 

 

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post #42 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

 
Google around. Forstall is known for being a corporate infighter and a total a**hole.
 

That's all speculative at best.

post #43 of 226

Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...

 

He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.

post #44 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

A lot of people will be happy to see Browett go. But Forstall? That's unexpected. I wonder if he was liked by Steve but not so much the other execs.

 

This, too, crossed my mind. However, you need to screw up to get dropped from an SVP position. Having the rest of the leadership team not like you will stall your career, but that alone won't necessarily force you out, unless Tim Cook is that hard core.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #45 of 226
YES!!! Forstall is gone. I think he's been holding back iOS for far too long.
post #46 of 226

Who now is heading hardware development?    Dan Riccio still?  

 

Scott did a tremendous job for Apple and the iPhone.  We should thank him and wish him a lot of future success  (hopefully, not at Apple's expense).  Thank you Scott 

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #47 of 226
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...

 

He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.

 

That's an interesting take. Or, hey, maybe he'll just make his own tech-based company that doesn't compete with Apple. We need some more effing innovation up there. Apple can't do it all, they don't want to do it all, and because nowhere else apparently has that spark, a lot of tech stagnates.


Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post
YES!!! Forstall is gone. I think he's been holding back iOS for far too long.
 

 

Which you know, because you know his exact position on everything in iOS and what he specifically intends or does not intend for it.

post #48 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Ah, I get you. I agree, at least partially. Reminders is fine, in my book. Tone down the texture a little. But it's intended to be like one of those old ring-bound flip up notepads, and it does that pretty well.

They are all beautiful programs.. HOWEVER, the keyword here is coherence. Together, those app designs do not make sense or create a beautiful OS.

post #49 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post


From the last profile of Scott Forstall, he is clearly a very ambitious individual who is also willing to play office politics to get his way. Not saying this is a bad thing, but that when you couple that with the rumored desire to be CEO, it is clear that the dynamics between him and Tim Cook cannot be all that great.

 

I read that Forstall's relationship with Jony Ive was terrible.  The rumor said Ive refused to attend any meeting that Forstall was at.  Seems likely to me that Forstall burned his bridges and Cook made his decision.

post #50 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennytheball View Post

Entirely speculative, but I wonder if Forstall wanted to do something on his own?

 

You mean like drive a UPS truck delivering iPad minis to Apple customers?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #51 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...

 

He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.

 

I think that ship has sailed.

And NeXT wasn't commercially successful until it found a buyer: GIL AMELIO.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #52 of 226

Browett was not a good fit - at least from my perspective looking in.  It's going to be tough finding someone, from retail, that has any experience or skills running a retailer like Apple in the Apple way.

post #53 of 226

Good news. Maybe Apple will finally update iOS look and move away from crazy skeumorphism.

Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #54 of 226
At their ages, boy could simply retire and live comfortably on their multi-millions, travel, do volunteer work, help others in so many ways...but I am sure both will only want to make ore money.
post #55 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And come on, this has nothing to do with Maps. If Apple didn't have faith in Maps or thought it had failed, they would have simply switched back. 

 

On skeuomorphism, it has a place, period. Yellow leather is garish, I agree, but do you people REALLY want Windows 8-style minimalism in your applications? I don't care if the answer is yes; the answer's no. I think Jony will still do skeuomorphism, but beautifully, simplistically, incorporating raw "materials" and a contrast between them.

 

"What, you mean like the brushed metal UI in Panther/Tiger?"

We must never speak of that again. lol.gif

 

"At least it wasn't pinstripes…"

Well, there's that.

No disrespect to Ive, but what does a hardware design guy know about software UI design? they're two different worlds.

post #56 of 226
So does Forstall going, does this mean the end of the skeuomorphic ui?
I remember reading he was one of the biggest fans of it after SJ.
post #57 of 226
Good riddance to Browett. That was a bad fit from the get go.
post #58 of 226

It's pathetic and disgusting how everyone here is so quick to throw Scott Forstall under the bus with the 'good riddance' comments, after all he's done for the Apple since the NEXT days, and where SJ obviously believed in him enough to give him so much responsibility. What an utter lack of perspective. This is sad and unexpected news, no reason to be so joyous. Also, hardware design expertise doesnt always translate to software design. Its a different world, for those championing Jony Ive for the role. Forstall is responsible for the most successful mobile platform and mobile appstore in the world, along with software features and paradigms that are now considered standard among the OS of other companies, among many other things at Apple. Give him some fucking credit. 

 

As for Browett, I couldn't care less, since he's had no impact or influence on the success of Apple. But its strange how he could be out so soon after he got the job. Why was he hired in the 1st place? Was due diligence not done? Was he fired because of internet comments? How much could he **** up in a few months that he would be fired?  

post #59 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Scott Forstall is a noted weasel, so good riddance. Browett has been much discussed in these pages, and I don't think there will be many tears shed. Props to Tim!
 

 

Well perhaps, but he's a "weasel" with the talent to do the job.  There is, as far as I've ever heard, absolutely no one to take his place.  

 

Despite his personality problems Forestall is probably the most important employee at Apple.  He is to software what Ive is to hardware.  This announcement should be treated in the same way as if it were announced that Jony Ive was leaving the firm.  It's probably very bad news.  

 

If Forestall is leaving cause he's sick or because he just wants to kick back on an island for the rest of his life then fine.  If he is leaving to get a job somewhere else, then I would be very, very worried.  It's way more likely to be that second option than the first however.  A guy like Forestall doesn't typically just stop working.  

post #60 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And come on, this has nothing to do with Maps. If Apple didn't have faith in Maps or thought it had failed, they would have simply switched back. 

 

 

Apple would never have switched back unless it absolutely had to. 'Not having faith' is not going to do it.

 

This is a company which is pretty unwilling to acknowledge any flaws in its products. Rolling back to Google maps would be giving such an acknowledgement in a big way.

post #61 of 226

The Forstall announcement is a bit of a surprise. I'd be interested to learn what's behind it. It has to be more than "mapgate". Given that he'll stay on as an advisor, it may have been Forstall's own desire to leave, rather than Apple wanting him to go. Letting Ive take on responsibility for the UI is welcome news. Someone needs to reign in the craziness and rampant inconsistency.

 

The only thing surprising about the announcement of the departure of Browett is how soon it came. Based on what I read and heard about his reputation, and his moves in his tenure at Apple, I knew he wouldn't last long. But, I thought he'd last longer than he did. My question is, why the hell did Cook even hire him in the first place? Was he so desperate to replace Johnson that he overlooked Browett's baggage? Browett always seemed like a terrible fit for the role at Apple. I think his hasty departure proves that out.

post #62 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennytheball View Post

Entirely speculative, but I wonder if Forstall wanted to do something on his own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

You mean like drive a UPS truck delivering iPad minis to Apple customers?

Uh…sure, that’s definitely the most likely career outcome for a multi-millionaire.
post #63 of 226

Just a thought, but the last paragraph doesn't mention iOS AT ALL....

 

Perhaps iOS and OSX will be more tightly integrated, Forstall was iOS guy

post #64 of 226

Good news all around. I'm glad and excited about all these changes. I love all the new responsibilities' heads and how things have been reorganized. I feel like this is Apple cutting out a growing part of itself that wasn't healthy because it was too concerns with beauracratics and competitive drive. They're returning back to building the best and most beautiful things they can with the highest quality possible; and now it's being done by people who really love every aspect of their responsibilities, and don't see the job or "work" in it.

 

The core of Apple: a labor of love.

GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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post #65 of 226

I completely agree. I thought Forstall had outworn his welcome some time ago. I'm certain that there are execs even two levels under him that can build on the great foundation he laid.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #66 of 226
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post
No disrespect to Ive, but what does a hardware design guy know about software UI design? they're two different worlds.

 

There IS that, too. Future should be interesting.


Originally Posted by abinitio View Post
Perhaps iOS and OSX will be more tightly integrated, Forstall was iOS guy

 

Oh, that's gonna happen regardless.

post #67 of 226
I think that Forstall was pissed by the fact they forced him to rush the development of Maps. I also suppose that many of his ideas to update iOS are being slowed down by others.
post #68 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Elaborate? Fix in what way?

UI design disasters like iOS Game Center and iBooks comes to mind. They look wretched IMHO. Perhaps I'll throw in Notes to a lesser extent.

Trying to force realword design/feel (wood, notepad paper, nasty green felt reminiscent of a cheap casino, etc.) on a modern OS.
post #69 of 226

Like I said in another thread, sometimes the person on the street knows better than the big company.. anyone who visited PCWorld in the UK, knew John Browett was a bad fit for Apple!

 

Good riddance.

post #70 of 226

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 1/23/13 at 6:07am
post #71 of 226
Good. I'm glad Scott Forstall is leaving. Maybe now some flexibility will be brought to iOS. I love iOS & how easy it is to use, but no one can deny it's getting a bit long in the tooth.
post #72 of 226
I'm heartbroken about Scott, a real star in the Cupertino Galaxy - but given his reassignment to the CEO in an advisory capacity, Apple recognizes his value, and this move points to irreconcilable differences between Steve Jobs' two outstanding proteges (no guesses as to who the other one is) and may well be the only possible way to resolve it.
post #73 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Jony's like Woz. I don't imagine he'd ever want to leave where he loves, and I don't want to see him anywhere else. He has an eye for design, just like Woz had an eye for engineering. Doesn't mean he'd be a good Overseer.

Doing what needs to be done is all part of maturing. Jobs continued to do much of what he liked. However Ive shouldn't be compared point-by-point to Jobs. At least of his appearance outside the company, Ive has a personality of someone who inspires, who can argue persuasively and convincingly, and that people want to work with and please. That Ive is a designer with those qualities makes him well-suited to the position of Apple CEO.

post #74 of 226

Everyone at Apple knew Browett was a bad choice - except for the senior management.  Now they realize it as well.  Now the question is who will replace him.

External candidates are not great choices since they don't get the Apple culture (particularly without Steve to say no to them).  I'm hoping they look internally

at someone like Steve Cano.  He could be a good option (yes, I'm sure there are Apple employees who don't like him but he generally is respected).  Atleast

he's not just a bean counter like Browett.

post #75 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Like I said in another thread, sometimes the person on the street knows better than the big company.. anyone who visited PCWorld in the UK, knew John Browett was a bad fit for Apple!

 

Good riddance.

Yup. Dixons? Currys? (bad taste in mouth)

post #76 of 226
I can tell you knowing Scott that the leave would be amicable and one where he has planned for some time to allow him the opportunity to run his own start-up. I've known Scott since '96 so it makes sense for him to finally leave the nest from NeXT/Apple and try his own vision out from start to finish.

Best wishes. I know of several of my former colleagues working on start ups.
post #77 of 226

Forestall has been sacked because of Mapgate. A bridge that appears to be melting (the horror!) and a misspelled city or two (Oh my God!—I can’t remember how to get to work!) have caused an unmitigated consumer confidence catastrophe. No faith nor trust in Apple remain, no one will upgrade to iOS 6, no one will buy the new iPad Mini, top executives are selling stock and jumping ship in droves. This is what every pundit has so long predicted: THE END OF APPLE FOREVER.

post #78 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Can they fix the UI design of some OSX and iOS apps now? I never thought that Tim had the balls... Great move. the first half of next year can really be all about new software paradigms.

 

That was my first thought. I'm very curious to see where Jony takes things.

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post #79 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

YES!!! Forstall is gone. I think he's been holding back iOS for far too long.

 

Written like a complete fool who knows nothing of Scott's background as former AppKit Chief and more. No one person holds back a single piece of product unless we're talking about not passing the Steve Test.

post #80 of 226

Whew. The photos of sketchy-looking Dixons stores gave me nightmares. I don't think anyone ever had a great feeling about that appointment.

 

And as much as I respect Scott Forstall and am concerned about his leaving, I'm really happy that Jony Ive is in charge of human interface at Apple. You could see the tension between Ive's simplicity and Forstall's love of stuff like the leather-bound calendar app and the wacky new podcasts app. 

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