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Jony Ive's minimalist designs could reshape the future of iOS, OS X - Page 3

post #81 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

There is never going to be a single design language that will please everyone out there, and with the sheer amount of users iOS has, there will always be a huge number of vocal critics, no matter which direction they head into.
As for minimalism, I dont see how much more minimal iOS can get without looking like the sea of white that are google apps, or massive text over solid colors that is Win8 design style. Its pretty minimal as is, and apart from a couple textures in some apps (which I dont mind in the least, gives some personality and some differentiation) theres nothing thats there that doesnt need to be there.
Oh, and Ill be pissed if Ive takes away my woodgrain bookshelf. Dont get the hate about that, its the most gorgeous app on iOS or anywhere. What the **** would people prefer, a text list? Its beautiful and functional.

 

Yeah, I'm not bothered by the wood shelf.  I would, however, enjoy it if Apple allowed developers to create "skin" apps so that I could customize both the shelf and the way I organize it.  It surprises me that neither Kindle nor iBooks has created this option.  I'm always reading, and to me a book shelf is personal and intimate.  I want to arrange books however I see fit..not select between "alphabetical" or "last browsed."  How about allowing me to pick and choose at random so that I can make my own categories?  Philosophy...over here (including any fiction that I enjoy associating with that category, or comparative religion), popcorn fiction...over here.  Open up the app to developers, or allow other developers to create alternate bookshelves in conjunction with the app.  This is one of a handful of things I still love about a real bookshelf...it's organized personally, with building materials that I chose.  This might sound as though I put a little too much thought into this...but compare it to people who obsess over their decorative phone cases.  I'd love to have a beautiful book shelf skin.  Maybe a rotating room that I can "stand" in, rotate, pinch to zoom in and out, etc.  Call me excessive, but I like objects of the mind to have a mental space of their own.  No, I don't need a paper turn animation, but it'd be nice to have a virtual mental space within the app so that I can organize my books in a way that makes me feel that I've entered my own personal reading world. 

post #82 of 132

I hope Jony realizes the new OSX "Autosave" feature is against good design principles, and disables it, or at least makes it configurable.

post #83 of 132
ecs View Post

I hope Jony realizes the new OSX "Autosave" feature is against good design principles, and disables it, or at least makes it configurable.

 

It is configurable. Check out System Preferences > General > "Ask to save changes when closing" or similar. Clicking a document window's title has a menu which handles the rest. There's also the version browser for those rare exceptions.

 

I actually prefer the autosave concept, even if Textedit defaults to saving new documents in iCloud. IMO, more design apps should have autosave. Looking right at you, Adobe.

When Final Cut Pro X crashes, I lose nothing but the time it takes to reopen, and maybe my single most recent action.

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post #84 of 132
The future will be owned by products that are often complex, but simple to understand and use. Jobs recognized it as a large number of leading designers, not the least of which is Ives.

What Ives has as a background may give him an edge in coming from the last of the age of simple typewriters and dial phones to the 21st century.

The need for "simple" is apparent to anyone who is forced to drive a rental car where you simply don't know what buttons and knobs do.

Obviousness is needed where possible & I think Ive is up to the task.
post #85 of 132
If Forstall was the reason for the abomination known as skeumorphism then I'm glad he's gone.

Maybe miracle of miracles we'll have a consistent interface which we last had in OS 9!
post #86 of 132
Now they'll get somewhere productive instead of that cutsey faux leather and wood nonsense.
post #87 of 132
Saying that many of OS X's apps are half-finished (by describing Image Capture as an "odd grab bag") the author demonstrates that perhaps he isn't aware of the heritage of the operating system. Image Capture serves a very good purpose, and there's a very important reason it stays within OS X, yet isn't used by most users.

Understanding that an operating system must satisfy not only the superficial users who aren't interested in stuff they "don't get", but also those users who rely and trust these unheard of features for their work is fundamental to getting any overhaul correct. Ive is the right man for the job, because he has demonstrated he is capable of doing this with hardware, which in my mind must be even harder than with software.

Remember when Jobs stood up and announced NTLMv2 authentication in Kerberos by saying "whatever that is"? This perfectly describes how different people come to need different things from the same product - you can't just remove it because it's obscure and very few people use it, but you can rethink it and make it easier and better for those that do need, and transparent for those that don't. And this is where Apple win and Microsoft fail. Big time.
post #88 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

If Forstall was the reason for the abomination known as skeumorphism then I'm glad he's gone.
Maybe miracle of miracles we'll have a consistent interface which we last had in OS 9!
My understanding is Steve was the one who pushed for it, thinking it would make the technology more approachable. All it does really is patronize people. Until we get to the point of haptic feedback, where something that looks like leather also feels like it then this skeumorphic stuff needs to go away, and fast.
post #89 of 132
Originally Posted by ecs View Post
I hope Jony realizes the new OSX "Autosave" feature is against good design principles…

 

Sounds more like it's the way computer files should have been since the beginning.

post #90 of 132

I have a title suggestion. Scott Forstall is a bit bland. How about:

 

      Crazy Eyes!

 

(iCrazy is too much and would be in poor taste.)

 

Actually have a soft spot for him. I hope he deals with his shortcomings and moves ahead boldly. He is very capable, and I look forward to seeing what he'll do next.

(in fact, I hope the same for myself.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

1000

 

Guess we'll have to wait for the biography to almost tell us half of what sort of happened.

post #91 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

[...] Spellings, phrases, and rules change pretty much every couple of generations. Deal with it! 1smile.gif

 

True, but definitions and simple rules of logic do NOT change (with rare exceptions, like "gay"). Sentences that didn't make any sense 50, 100 or 200 years ago still don't. Saying the opposite of what you mean has always been and still is just, well, stupid.

 

Deal with THAT! So there! :)

post #92 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


You know, Google can be your friend: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/g09.html
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.......

 

That particular link, referring to that particular phrase, is wrong. I understand what a sarcastic inversion is, but I don't think the author of that piece does. Either that or (s)he is just grasping at straws to defend a common phrase for which there is no reasonable argument.

 

"I could care less" simply is NOT a sarcastic inversion, it's just a corruption that proliferated because it sounded "different."

 

You may choose to accept it because you know what was meant by its use and challenging it distracts from the purpose of the discussion (like is happening here), but that doesn't make it correct, even if some grad student DID happen to write a weak argument for it on a web site when he was tired.

post #93 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.

I'll admit, I hate the leather etc. But you're incorrect in saying that the leather and stitching don't add much. In fact, they add nothing, which is to say, they are a detriment.

 

In design, and particularly in interface design, if it *adds nothing,* then it *takes away something.* And generally, that *something* is clarity, cleanliness, harmony, and the like. On any application, but especially utilities like Calendar, Contacts, or Dictionary, which are used often, this absence may seem insignificant, but it has an erosional effect. (It's kind of like some of the crappy features in AI forums-- the annoying spell check "feature"-- it sucks and it prevents me from using my own spell check, F&#$%s!)

 

When I see that leather and stitching, it reminds me that they prioritized ridiculously polishing the meaningless and superficial looks of utility applications, over filling in long standing voids and fixing long standing annoyances in their basic usability.

post #94 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You know, I don't mind it either. Calendar on OS X doesn't even have the stitching, which makes it subtle like Notes. Nice and simple.

No, it has the, oh so cute "torn paper." (It adds so much!)

post #95 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

 

The only problem I have with it is that it has encouraged the tedious use of the word 'skeuomorphism' all over the blogosphere.

Yeah. I never heard that phrase while studying product design. We just called that kind of crap "anachronistic," "overly literal," "precious," or "just plain bad!"

post #96 of 132
iOS is fine.. It's OSX that needs the serious work.
I still think its really sad that Forstall is leaving though.
post #97 of 132

"I couldn't care less." is a sarcastic inversion.

"I could care less." is not. It's more of a very annoying, adopted error.

In any case, I couldn't care less (I really wish I could! But it's such an annoying misuse of language that I can't!)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

That particular link, referring to that particular phrase, is wrong. I understand what a sarcastic inversion is, but I don't think the author of that piece does. Either that or (s)he is just grasping at straws to defend a common phrase for which there is no reasonable argument.

 

"I could care less" simply is NOT a sarcastic inversion, it's just a corruption that proliferated because it sounded "different."

 

You may choose to accept it because you know what was meant by its use and challenging it distracts from the purpose of the discussion (like is happening here), but that doesn't make it correct, even if some grad student DID happen to write a weak argument for it on a web site when he was tired.


Edited by DESuserIGN - 10/31/12 at 3:10pm
post #98 of 132

Anyone else notice Bertrand Serlet in the audience at the most recent Apple event? That was pretty cool. Maybe he's a "consultant" like Bob. Or, hey, maybe he'll come back altogether now.

post #99 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

iOS is fine.. It's OSX that needs the serious work.
I still think its really sad that Forstall is leaving though.

iOS has lots of annoying problems. But it's still a work in progress and despite it's problems, it's miles ahead of the others.

post #100 of 132

I thought I saw him. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I assume he left on good terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Anyone else notice Bertrand Serlet in the audience at the most recent Apple event? That was pretty cool. Maybe he's a "consultant" like Bob. Or, hey, maybe he'll come back altogether now.

The director seemed to be bent on getting Al Gore in nearly every shot of the audience!

post #101 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Like it or not, Apple's iOS apps like Podcasts are also an important part of the OS, and that app is a complete disaster. The dialler in iOS 6 is a disaster. And the colour-changing status bar is ug-lee! Game Centre? There's a lot of work to do. Notes too, IMO. Also, Notes and iCloud have issues, serious issues.

- I use the podcast app everyday. I think the tape reel is charming, and takes nothing away from functionality. The app is fully featured, intuitive to use, works well, and looks great. I use it for all my podcast needs. How the **** is it a complete disaster?

- The dialer is a 'disaster'? It's a damn grid of 9 buttons. They simply changed the color scheme. Hundreds of millions of people have no problem using it to dial. Again, what?

- Sure, game center is really over the top, but does this REALLY negatively affect anyone? Do people spend tons of time in gamecenter or something?

- Notes- again, completely fine. At least you can change the font now. Does the yellow background bug you that much? If so, there's a billion other notes apps on the appstore. The look is completely subjective, there's nothing objectively 'bad' about it. 

- iMessages has been having its issues, but the rest of iCloud has been seamless for me. Everything from backup, to data syncing, to game save files, to seamless podcast resume from whatever device I'm using, to documents in the cloud, its an incredibly ambitious and multi-faceted service, and for the most part it does exactly what it sets out to do. 'Set it and forget it'. I love tapping in a note from my iPhone/iPad/Macbook and having it available everywhere, never worrying about the device I'm using. 

 

I think your definition of 'disaster' is quite exaggerated, as you don't set out to justify how that term is justified. 

 

What I do believe is that the general OSX interface needs an overhaul, especially the traffic lights. Needs to be rethought. I'm thinking built in, intelligent windows management, snapping, etc. In iOS, the fundamentals can't, and dont need to change much. 

post #102 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"Champing at the bit, also worded chomping at the bit or chafing at the bit, meaning to show impatience or burst with energy"

 

It's perfectly fine.

It depends - if you're the Associated Press, you only allow your writers to use "champing at the bit", not the others. It's become somewhat common for people to use "chomping at the bit" (so common that it's acceptable by most), but do you really chomp "at" something? That's pretty awkward - you generally chomp "on" something, not "at" it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


A little googling would have helped you here. Both the words champ and chomp mean the same thing in this case just as at and on can both mean the location of something. I could tell you the original phrase but an imitative term dating back as far as 1520 has absolutely no baring on what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.

Google's been known to lie (just had to say that). And I think you mean "bearing". I'd also say that what is proper and what is acceptable are somewhat different.


Edited by elroth - 10/31/12 at 2:53pm
post #103 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


My understanding is Steve was the one who pushed for it, thinking it would make the technology more approachable. All it does really is patronize people. Until we get to the point of haptic feedback, where something that looks like leather also feels like it then this skeumorphic stuff needs to go away, and fast.

 

Don't forget "Smellovision".

post #104 of 132

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

- I use the podcast app everyday. I think the tape reel is charming, and takes nothing away from functionality. The app is fully featured, intuitive to use, works well, and looks great. I use it for all my podcast needs. How the **** is it a complete disaster?

 

 

I find podcast laggy and unreliable. Maybe not a disaster, but performance and usability wise, it's a disappointing and crappy move down from the previous iTunes based performance and experience. The tape reel only shows that they put flash before function. It adds nothing and likely the average user (anyone less than half my age, anyway) has never even seen a cassette deck before, much less a reel to reel.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

What I do believe is that the general OSX interface needs an overhaul, especially the traffic lights. Needs to be rethought. I'm thinking built in, intelligent windows management, snapping, etc. In iOS, the fundamentals can't, and dont need to change much. 

 

 

At their core I think both OS X and iOS are pretty sound. But they both have inconstancies and details that need to fixed.

It's time for a "Snow Leopard" release of both OSes. An under the hood "No New Features" release where they can take time to fix everything, make it work properly, increase performance, unify the GUI, and smooth out the UX. I'm thinking they've just moved too fast to get things right lately.

post #105 of 132
'Sir Ives' shortened = 'Sir I' = 'Siri'.

Coincidence or spooky?
Jony is the future of Apple!
post #106 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

 

 

 

At their core I think both OS X and iOS are pretty sound. But they both have inconstancies and details that need to fixed.

It's time for a "Snow Leopard" release of both OSes. An under the hood "No New Features" release where they can take time to fix everything, make it work properly, increase performance, unify the GUI, and smooth out the UX. I'm thinking they've just moved too fast to get things right lately.

 

I use Podcast every day as well and it functions ok. I'd like a way to toggle Pause/Play without looking at the screen, like when I'm driving. Can Apple make a double-tap of the screen or triple tap or make use of one of the external hardware buttons work for the toggle?

 

Also, the UI for many players (whether for podcasts, video or music) is often cramped. How about using that big screen a little more effectively? Why must I laser in on the play/pause button? I'm constantly hitting the wrong buttons or concentrating like a ninja to make sure I don't hit the wrong buttons.

 

This goes to my statement that if Ive and others use these apps a lot, they will understand that there are useful features being overlooked and some of them are quite obvious to longtime users.

 

I'll second this poster's desire to get rid of the stoplight window controls. No one intuitively understands what they do. I can never predict what the hell the green button is going to do from app to app. I think Apple could change this for new users so it's more obvious. And while they're at it, put all the window control buttons together. I probably mouse 67K miles per year using my 27" iMac. This can be reduced by grouping buttons intelligently.

post #107 of 132
Thanks for a brilliant piece, Daniel. I sincerely hope minimalism and utilitarianism does not replace whimsy, which has been a part of Apple history since the beginning.
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post #108 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How Jony does things going forward will be absolutely crucial to the future of Apple. 

Yes, yellow leather and 18 gauge thread (that's 120 for Europeans) wasn't the best idea. Windows 8 is a worse idea.

You are obsessed with Microsoft, are you now.

Apple fan site, Apple-centric article, first post - and you cannot leash yourself not to try jab around a bit?

Funny.
post #109 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Also, the UI for many players (whether for podcasts, video or music) is often cramped. How about using that big screen a little more effectively? Why must I laser in on the play/pause button? I'm constantly hitting the wrong buttons or concentrating like a ninja to make sure I don't hit the wrong buttons.

 

THANK you! Why the hell do I care about things like album cover art when it means I can't hit the freakin' buttons?!

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I'll second this poster's desire to get rid of the stoplight window controls. No one intuitively understands what they do. I can never predict what the hell the green button is going to do from app to app.

 

One of those things Windows really does better than Mac. I'm not even sure why we have the yellow button. Do we really need both "Hide App" and "Minimize to Dock" controls? Do people minimize some windows to the dock while leaving others from the same app open?

post #110 of 132
Podcasts is the worst app Apple has released in years. I hope Jony tells 2 guys to "redesign that slow, superfluous heap of crap". Heck, they could have bought Instacast for 500K, gave it a spit shine, called it Podcasts, and it would have been 50 times better, with far less work.

And when I say Notes and iCloud have serious issues, I mean in terms of the two syncing quickly and automatically together. Not to mention iMessage, which hasn't worked as advertised, for me, for at least 3 months.
Edited by Ireland - 10/31/12 at 6:17pm
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post #111 of 132
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
You are obsessed with Microsoft, are you now.
Apple fan site, Apple-centric article, first post - and you cannot leash yourself not to try jab around a bit?
Funny.

 

I don't get it. You'd prefer idiot trolls being entirely anti-Apple? That's fine on an Apple site? Can't jab at opponents on Apple sites, though. No, that's wrong. So is doing what the trolls do here on their respective fan sites. No, no. Not gonna fly.

😕❓❓❓

post #112 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

It depends - if you're the Associated Press, you only allow your writers to use "champing at the bit", not the others. It's become somewhat common for people to use "chomping at the bit" (so common that it's acceptable by most), but do you really chomp "at" something? That's pretty awkward - you generally chomp "on" something, not "at" it.
Google's been known to lie (just had to say that). And I think you mean "bearing". I'd also say that what is proper and what is acceptable are somewhat different.

1) AP has nothing to do with what is exceptable in everyday use.

2) It became somewhat common long before you were born.

3) So now when people refer to googling something it means only info coming from google directly and not links to other items that contain information? When the ful did that happen?

4) You know how preserve text work. Sometimes it gets it right sometimes it doesn't.

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post #113 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't get it. You'd prefer idiot trolls being entirely anti-Apple? That's fine on an Apple site? Can't jab at opponents on Apple sites, though. No, that's wrong. So is doing what the trolls do here on their respective fan sites. No, no. Not gonna fly.
😕❓❓❓

Hypothetically I'd prefer idiot trolls to be anti-Apple, because if you introduce pro-Apple idiot trolls (and lets pretend they don't already exist), this forum would end up with more trolls than normal people.

But I'm saying "hypothetically" because I don't like term troll - in fact I think it is the most abused term I have seen for a while. It also doesn't make sense. Most people calling others "trolls" perfectly fit in the category; trolls are quickest to see a troll in others.

Yes some people are here to flame and provoke. But then, the way I see it, your first post in a tread that has nothing to do with MS, is an attempt to provoke another flame. And you are supposed to be a moderator, not a resident... provoker.

And I'm not even saying that your opinion about Windows 8 is wrong. Only that your little quip isn't bringing any argument to the topic. Only inspiring others to throw in their napalm, be it pro or anti-whatever. For what reason? So that you can call them trolls?

Again - I can expect that for many others, but you are Moderator.
post #114 of 132
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
Only that your little quip isn't bringing any argument to the topic.

 

It directly relates to the topic at hand, and it's a jab at Microsoft.

 

Maybe I've just been around too long; jabs at Microsoft used to be bread and butter. Or at least the weekly multivitamin.

post #115 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

That particular link, referring to that particular phrase, is wrong. I understand what a sarcastic inversion is, but I don't think the author of that piece does. Either that or (s)he is just grasping at straws to defend a common phrase for which there is no reasonable argument.

 

"I could care less" simply is NOT a sarcastic inversion, it's just a corruption that proliferated because it sounded "different."

 

You may choose to accept it because you know what was meant by its use and challenging it distracts from the purpose of the discussion (like is happening here), but that doesn't make it correct, even if some grad student DID happen to write a weak argument for it on a web site when he was tired.

Uh uh. The trouble with the web is, sometimes, people like you.

 

You think dictionary.com -- a site with a link that I helpfully provided, instead of simply telling you that you're talking bullish!t -- must rely on some "grad student...writ[ing] a weak argument...when he was tired." That would be like my saying that, in your cloak of anonymity (v5v!?), you could well be some unemployed bum pretending you know something about the English language. (The sad part? In my case, it might well be right, compared to your wild surmise about a widely used website that's part of a well-known firm that puts it out there and tells you -- if you'd care to find out -- who they are.lol.gif)

 

What do you know about dictionary.com that tells you it's run/managed by grad students? Pretty much the same as what you claim to know about sarcastic inversions.

 

If you want to really make a case for what you're saying, instead of sounding like some silly blowhard: tell us who you are, why I should believe your knowledge regarding the topic, provide  a logical argument, provide a helpful cite (instead of appealing to your anonymous, likely bogus, authority). Preferably, all four of the above.

 

If you can't/won't -- let me try and say this politely: get lost.

post #116 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeJay2012 View Post

'Sir Ives' shortened = 'Sir I' = 'Siri'.
Coincidence or spooky?
Jony is the future of Apple!

That's fun, and interesting. Seems like it might contain a kernel of truth.

Reminds me of Sagan, BHA, LaW.

post #117 of 132
Addressing one part of this thread - that of aesthetics vis-a-vis apps and user interfaces- the app that really takes the bun and the biscuit is that frightful iOS "Game Center" [sic.]. I dislike it so much that I've buried it away in a folder where I never have to see it ever again. Truly sick-inducing.

It reminds me of something out of the '90s with its mismatched fonts and colours - perhaps something cobbled together by a "Jolt"-crazed teenager. I would love to see Sir Jonathon get the axe out on that one, quick smart!
Edited by AlexN - 11/1/12 at 4:14am
post #118 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Uh uh. The trouble with the web is, sometimes, people like you.

 

You think dictionary.com -- a site with a link that I helpfully provided, instead of simply telling you that you're talking bullish!t -- must rely on some "grad student...writ[ing] a weak argument...when he was tired." That would be like my saying that, in your cloak of anonymity (v5v!?), you could well be some unemployed bum pretending you know something about the English language. (The sad part? In my case, it might well be right, compared to your wild surmise about a widely used website that's part of a well-known firm that puts it out there and tells you -- if you'd care to find out -- who they are.lol.gif)

 

 

 

The "grad student" remark was supposed to be funny. I withdraw it in the interest of not muddying the discussion.

 

My point was, and is, that even big, respected organizations sometimes get basic, fundamental stuff wrong, because even big, respected organizations are run by people and people are fallible. My providing a link that rebuts your link would be pointless, because my position is that it doesn't matter whether "Expert A" says it *is* a sarcastic inversion while "Expert  B" says it is not. Either expert could be wrong. Want proof? Watch the news on TV. Big, respected organizations sometimes get important details wrong. Read court documents. No better example of a system designed to wring out mistakes, yet they happen ALL THE TIME. How about textbooks? Do I need to go on? I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just saying that just because dictionary.com gives a phrase a label, it doesn't mean they're right.

 

I'm not trying to arrogantly put myself above so-called experts. I am and always have been an utter moron. That's why I'm so sure they're mistaken -- the test is so simple that even a doofus like me can get through it: apply the definition to the phrase and see if it fits, right? In the case of "I could care less" it just doesn't. You don't have to take my word for it or that of any third-party expert because you can do it yourself. The phrase doesn't fit the model of deliberately saying the opposite of what you mean to make a point about the actual intent. Even the author at dictionary.com failed to explain the logic in the claim, even though (s)he made a point of explaining how it applies to the other examples (s)he offered.

 
Besides, maybe I'm misreading what the dictionary.com author wrote, but to me it read kinda like, "I dunno, people in the States started saying it this way and no one is really sure why. Sarcastic inversion maybe?"

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

[...] If you want to really make a case for what you're saying, instead of sounding like some silly blowhard: tell us who you are, why I should believe your knowledge regarding the topic, provide  a logical argument, provide a helpful cite (instead of appealing to your anonymous, likely bogus, authority). Preferably, all four of the above.

 

If you can't/won't -- let me try and say this politely: get lost.

 

1. I'm not anonymous, I've said before that my name is Lorin and that I'm an audio engineer in Vancouver. Beyond that, my employer expects me to maintain an appropriate level of discretion. If you actually care to know more you can PM me, but you really needn't bother because (see next point)

 

2. I make no claim of special expertise. In fact, I claim that none is required.

 

3. I don't know how to be any MORE logical than to simply apply the definition the author supplied and see if it applies to the phrase in question.

 

4. Since a fundamental tenet of my argument is that so-called "experts" can be mistaken, it would be a contradiction of request 3 ("logical" argument) for me to provide citations supporting my position. But if it makes you feel better, here, try this: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm

 

To me it looks like our "expert" at dictionary.com just plagiarized bits and pieces of this document to make a quick point, but failed to grasp the broader intent.

 

In the linked article the author does give a nod to the argument that it's a sarcastic inversion, but suggests that he, too, thinks that's an academically interesting but ultimately flawed explanation, suggesting instead that it's really just the result of people being basically stupid.

post #119 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How Jony does things going forward will be absolutely crucial to the future of Apple. 

 

Yes, yellow leather and 18 gauge thread (that's 120 for Europeans) wasn't the best idea. Windows 8 is a worse idea.

At least Ive won't have an X-Box as his influence.  Where do you think the GUI for WIndows 8 comes from?  X-Box.  And Ballmer thinks that Window 8 Surface tablets are for "serious computing"?

 

I can't wait to see what Ive comes up with. His and his team's design work has gone through a maturing process, but they are forward thinkers, which is good.

 

 

I hope they at least give us some better background pictures to use.  They could be a little better.  Obviously, they can't get too flashy to detract the user from the icons.

post #120 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

If Forstall was the reason for the abomination known as skeumorphism then I'm glad he's gone.
Maybe miracle of miracles we'll have a consistent interface which we last had in OS 9!

Forstall is still an advisor to Tim Cook, so I think it was a fair way to handle it. Forstall is still earning a living and maybe he'll give some decent advise along the way.   I mean, the guy knows iOS, and probably has some decent ideas.  I like Maps, i just think they put it out on the market a little too soon, that's all.

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