iPad mini review roundup: Amazing build quality, impressive battery life, high price - Page 3

Originally Posted by JohnnyW2001 
I don't understand people who claim that Apple shouldn't innovate anymore. iOS is OLD. Just because YOU can't imagine an improvement doesn't mean there isn't one.

I don't understand people who claim that iOS needs to be fundamentally changed. iOS is timeless. Just because YOU don't understand why the UI is infinitely better if it doesn't change doesn't mean (I HATE the "just because doesn't mean" sentence structure…) Apple needs to bow to your wishes.

I'm ignoring the part where you're pretending we're saying they need to "not innovate" and "never improve". Why you decided to do that is beyond me.

Originally Posted by diplication 
How do we know your fingers are still connected to your hand?

Gosh dang it, there goes my secret; I can dislocate each of my finger joints at will to stretch my hands out! Who would have ever thought you'd guess it! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


And compared to other tablets it's only about 20% more expensive for about 40% more...

Wouldn't "20% more" than a $200 cheapo tablet be $240 and not $350?

Considering the way Soli worded it, yes the Mini is actually closer to a 65% premium over the $200 16GB Google or Amazon 7 inchers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfiejr 

i think we will see a newer iPad next Spring - IF Apple has something even better ready to offer. given all the competition now, i don't believe Apple will hold improved stuff back for the sake of annual cycles any more. as i said, i think a V.2 mini in the Spring is even more likely. we might see two incremental iPad updates per year from now on ... iPhones are different, because almost everyone is locked into two year contract cycles anyway. so once a year fits their decision making.

So Apple Release an iPad 6 months early(for very good reasons) and now you think they are going to do again, for both of them? And be a regular occurrence after that?

You probably thought the Mini was going to cost $250 and include a Retina Display. It is this kind of wishful thinking that leads to disappointment when your wishes don't come true.

It makes a whole lot more sense that Apple will switch to a Fall release schedule. In the past there was some grumbling that when you buy an iPad for Christmas gift, it was replace a couple of months into the new year. With a fall release you don't have that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHarder 

Nice tablet, but...
The A5 is now 3 generations behind other iPads, the iOS UI is more than dated at this point, the display is not even close to the resolution/quality of other 7 to 8 inch tablet devices (or even most modern smartphones) and the price is 'a bit much' for anything but the base model, especially the US $130.00 additional just for GPS/Cellular radios.
When it comes down to it, the iPad Mini is just another variation on the same 5 year-old iOS theme, which for many will be enough, but it does beg the question: Is Apple Just Running Out of New Ideas?

I completely agree. Having used computers for 35 years, iOS is stale as all heck. Why can't I turn wifi on and off without digging into settings? Yeah, I could jailbreak...

The cellular radio is expensive. The display should have been much better.

Forstall is out, and as we've heard, he was a bottleneck to change.

And I used the Podcast app for the first time in iOS 6 and it's horrible. What's with the reel-to-reel decks? How about some green/orange shag carpet? Haven't seen a reel-to-reel deck since the late 70s. Dumb all over.

Anyway, I was going to get a mini, but not with that low-rez screen. Next year? I guess Apple is trying to milk the market for whatever it is worth. Kudos to them. They are doing something right. People keep buying.

---

iPhone 4S, MacBook Pro i7, iPad 1 owner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

IMO iOS is dated. Maybe it doesn't need a radical overhaul but we've had apps/folders on a grid for 5 years now and it feels a bit stale. iOS 6 felt more like 5.5 and the two biggest features - maps and passbook - have issues. That's why I hope these management changes will move iOS forward in a good way. Apple can't afford to be complacent in this space. We can laugh all we want at MS and Windows 8/RT but Windows Phone 8 is getting good reviews.

Windows phone 7 had good reviews too.

I really don't get this thinking that iOS has to radically shift in looks. Yeah it kind of looks the same as the debut in 2007 - 5 whole years ago.

Windows Desktop looks nearly the same as it did on Windows 95 - 17 Years ago,and it is the most dominant OS anyone has every seen on any platform.

Change for the sake of change, makes no sense, chasing the visual sensibilities of Teens also makes no sense. 

Continuing to tastefully evolve and add new functionality does.

Originally Posted by Harbinger 

 

Some reviewers are going further. It sounds like some of them prefer the Mini over the iPad as their primary tablet, even if they had to get used to the lower screen resolution. That's a pretty compelling compliment.

The iPad Mini is equivalent to the 13" mb. For most people the 13" mb is adequate and ditto (is my guess) the iPad mini. I think the lower resolution is a minor point for most people. Smaller is better MOST of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger 
But it also makes you wonder how, after allegedly extensive research, Apple decided 9.7" was the optimal size. Regardless, these reviews prove Apple right, once again.

This again. What Steve said was marketing - can't we just all agree here. But nonetheless, times have changed, the market is maturing, technology has improved. One thing we should all know by now i that there is no 'absolute'. Life, needs, technology, perceptions, design, are all fluid things. Once they go static they pretty much die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfisher 

I completely agree. Having used computers for 35 years, iOS is stale as all heck. Why can't I turn wifi on and off without digging into settings? Yeah, I could jailbreak...

 

The cellular radio is expensive. The display should have been much better.

 

Forstall is out, and as we've heard, he was a bottleneck to change.

 

And I used the Podcast app for the first time in iOS 6 and it's horrible. What's with the reel-to-reel decks? How about some green/orange shag carpet? Haven't seen a reel-to-reel deck since the late 70s. Dumb all over.

 

Anyway, I was going to get a mini, but not with that low-rez screen. Next year? I guess Apple is trying to milk the market for whatever it is worth. Kudos to them. They are doing something right. People keep buying.

 

---

 

iPhone 4S, MacBook Pro i7, iPad 1 owner.

You gotta get a life. Its not as bad as you paint it. Not perfect, I agree, but IOS is stale as all heck? Really? Have you seen that terrible low res screen? I still use a first gen iPad and even though its not the latest and has its limitations, its still really good. It wasn't long since it came out and then it was awesome. For email, browsing, music, netflix, and reading, it still is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfisher 

I completely agree. Having used computers for 35 years, iOS is stale as all heck.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/07/apples_iphone_tops_jd_power_satisfaction_survey_for_8th_straight_time

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/iphone-customer-satisfaction-jd-power-associates_n_1354393.html

http://www.webpronews.com/ipad-kills-the-competition-in-customer-satisfaction-2012-06

http://mashable.com/2012/08/08/ipad-kindle-fire-satisfaction/

And they all run iOS. 

Congratulations. You've got 35 years of personal anecdotes, that have absolutely nothing to do with the market.  

Just came across this iPad Mini review. Many of you have already seen it, I am sure, but it pretty much sums it up, I think. A good review which is not too technologically fixated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/31/ipad-mini-review

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

We just learned about 64-bit ARM launching in 2014. Lets not jump it ahead to 2013 the same day in was announced.

And for most companies Cortex A15 CPUs aren't going to be in products until 2013 except for some Snapdragon S4 based phones (which like the A6 is "A15 class" and not actual Cortex A15 cores).  

It depends on whether Apple wants to go quad core A15 vs 64 bit and presumably better ipc and remain dual core.  How many true quad core iOS apps are there? 

Apple has the ARM roadmap way ahead of any public announcements and they don't need to be a real Cortex A50, just "A50 class" and implement 64 bit ARMv8 instructions. 64 bit ARMv8 was announced back in 2010 or 2011 (if not earlier) and work started in 2007.

I bet you $10 to your (preferably online) charity of choice that the A7 will be 64 bit ARMv8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snova 

ok... so remind me again what 64 bit buys you other than bloated code size?   Do you expect to see > 4GB of RAM in the iPad 5?  Seriously.   Having 64 bit does NOT make it go any faster.

ARMv8 has a cleaner architecture, additional useful enhancements in the A64 instruction set (like native encryption support for AES, SHA-1 and SHA-256), 31 general purpose 64 bit and 32 SMID 128 bit registers which does improves power and computational performance.  The new SMID will be able handle 64 bit and 128 bit vectors ops.

So yeah, just going 64 bits does make it go faster.  The increased address space is a freebie for phones but a lot more useful for servers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger 

 

Some reviewers are going further. It sounds like some of them prefer the Mini over the iPad as their primary tablet, even if they had to get used to the lower screen resolution. That's a pretty compelling compliment. But it also makes you wonder how, after allegedly extensive research, Apple decided 9.7" was the optimal size. Regardless, these reviews prove Apple right, once again.

Folks that use more complex content creation apps will probably favor 9.7" since it will be faster and have slightly larger UI target sizes.  Plus currently the iPad 4 is retina and the mini isn't.  Older folks will also favor the regular iPad.  Also folks that tend to only use their iPads around the house will favor the original.

Folks that primarily use their iPads for games and content consumption will favor the Mini because it's just easier to lug around.  I don't bother to lug around my iPad but I take my Kindle Fire once in a while if I know where i'm going has a lot of WiFi hotspots.  The iPad Mini LTE will be a perfect mobile tablet for me.  

Will I then consider the mini MY primary tablet?  Probably.  Would I consider it the FAMILY primary tablet?  Probably not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nht 

 

Folks that use more complex content creation apps will probably favor 9.7" since it will be faster and have slightly larger UI target sizes.  Plus currently the iPad 4 is retina and the mini isn't.  Older folks will also favor the regular iPad.  Also folks that tend to only use their iPads around the house will favor the original.

My bet would be that the Mini becomes the #1 selling tablet, ahead of the 9.7" versions. I think Apple prepared for that as well, which is why those extra $30 over $299 were important. If Mini significantly cannibalizes 9.7" sales it will shrink both iPad ASP and iPad margins. From a business perspective, they want to avoid collapsing margins too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyW2001 

I don't understand people who claim that Apple shouldn't innovate anymore. iOS is OLD. Just because YOU can't imagine an improvement doesn't mean there isn't one.

And you came to this conclusion how?

Hardware wise, its' great for the build quality, size, weight, and battery.

OS Wise, which is for all iOS products, Apple does need to step up it's game. to that end however, I think with the management shakeup with John Ivy now in charge of the UI, I think we can expect some major changes in that regard. Luckly, iOS can be updated on all platforms.. The next few iOS releases I will be watching to see whats next, as I will hope to enjoy the changes on my new iPad Mini! 

Some blogs are now reporting Apple may miss their originally announced shipping date for the LTE version, with Nov. 23rd availability now removed from the page. At least a couple are claiming this as evidence of Apple production problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowdog65 

 

So Apple Release an iPad 6 months early(for very good reasons) and now you think they are going to do again, for both of them? And be a regular occurrence after that?

 

You probably thought the Mini was going to cost $250 and include a Retina Display. It is this kind of wishful thinking that leads to disappointment when your wishes don't come true.

 

It makes a whole lot more sense that Apple will switch to a Fall release schedule. In the past there was some grumbling that when you buy an iPad for Christmas gift, it was replace a couple of months into the new year. With a fall release you don't have that problem.

you know, i put the word "IF" in caps to try to make it really clear to folks like you who keep putting their words in others' mouths. "IF" means "if," get it? i expect Apple products will get a 6 month refresh sometimes, IF a real upgrade is ready to deploy - so not necessarily every time. got it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfiejr 

you know, i put the word "IF" in caps to try to make it really clear to folks like you who keep putting their words in others' mouths. "IF" means "if," get it? i expect Apple products will get a 6 month refresh sometimes, IF a real upgrade is ready to deploy - so not necessarily every time. got it?

IF pigs fly.

Then you said a new Mini is Spring in likely and two/year updates from now on could be the norm.

One special case incident and you see it ready to move to twice/year from now on. 

That's absurd. Apple can barely keep up with annual releases. It is hard enough to come up with enough advancement for a yearly model and actually build them all into a cohesive product in that timeframe. Look at the 4s. 16 months between releases and loads of complaints that it wasn't much of an advancement. This has nothing to do with contracts. That delay hurt sales a lot. One year is barely enough time to build/debug/test/launch a product, let alone 6 months.

2/year release become normal is ridiculous. It was a one time anomaly to synch up with a new product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowdog65 

 

My bet would be that the Mini becomes the #1 selling tablet, ahead of the 9.7" versions. I think Apple prepared for that as well, which is why those extra $30 over $299 were important. If Mini significantly cannibalizes 9.7" sales it will shrink both iPad ASP and iPad margins. From a business perspective, they want to avoid collapsing margins too much.

Yes, this is true but better that Apple does this than Amazon or Google.

I think that they'll get a good number of upsells to the 32GB model + LTE.  That will help both ASP and margins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHarder 

Nice tablet, but...
The A5 is now 3 generations behind other iPads, the iOS UI is more than dated at this point, the display is not even close to the resolution/quality of other 7 to 8 inch tablet devices (or even most modern smartphones) and the price is 'a bit much' for anything but the base model, especially the US $130.00 additional just for GPS/Cellular radios.
When it comes down to it, the iPad Mini is just another variation on the same 5 year-old iOS theme, which for many will be enough, but it does beg the question: Is Apple Just Running Out of New Ideas?

This is a silly argument. The A5 was released in 2011. It is used to power the larger and still for sale iPad 2. Further, the Tegra chip used to power the Nexus Tablets was also released in 2011. What should matter is performance. The benchmarks for the iPad Mini show it performs the same as the iPad 3. That is pretty impressive. Reviewers have mentioned the performance is excellent. It doesn't need the A6 (which would bring the cost up) because it has a smaller screen to power. 

As for screen resolution, the only people that that will be an issue for is people who have used an iPad 3 or other retina display device. The rest of the market will find no issue with the display quality, which is better than the still selling iPad 2. Moreover, the screen has been improved. Without providing the same resolution as the iPhone 5, it uses the same technology. It is sharper, brighter, and the pixels closer to the surface than the iPad 2. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowdog65 

 

IF pigs fly.

 

Then you said a new Mini is Spring in likely and two/year updates from now on could be the norm.

 

you need to go to bonehead English class. yes, i think a V2 mini is "likely" next spring, because a retina screen for it (@ 326 dpi like the iPhone) could be ready by then. and twice annual updates for the iPads "could" become routine. but "likely" does not = "certain," and "could" does not = "will." stop being so argumentative, and stop spinning my words your way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfiejr 

you need to go to bonehead English class. yes, i think a V2 mini is "likely" next spring, because a retina screen for it (@ 326 dpi like the iPhone) could be ready by then. and twice annual updates for the iPads "could" become routine. but "likely" does not = "certain," and "could" does not = "will." stop being so argumentative, and stop spinning my words your way.

Likely is also not 50:50, it indicates that you have an expectation it will happen. Which would be unprecedented for a new Apple product.

This is nothing more than wishful thinking. It will be ~1Year before anything happens with the Mini and it might not get a Retina screen in it's first upgrade.

It's the same thing as when everyone was thinking iPad 2 woudl have a retina screen. People let wishful thinking cloud their reason.

Originally Posted by nikon133 
Because... a lot of them are Apple customers as well?

Then they should either buy something they think they want instead or educate themselves on why they're wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowdog65 

 

Likely is also not 50:50, it indicates that you have an expectation it will happen. Which would be unprecedented for a new Apple product.

 

This is nothing more than wishful thinking. It will be ~1Year before anything happens with the Mini and it might not get a Retina screen in it's first upgrade.

 

It's the same thing as when everyone was thinking iPad 2 woudl have a retina screen. People let wishful thinking cloud their reason.

correct. likely for me means about 2 chances out of 3. but wrong, the iPad 4 IS the precedent. my thought is that Cook will adopt a strategy of more frequent updates for the iPad in particular because of the much-increased competition. IF they have a significant upgrade ready to go in six months - the screen being the #1 issue for almost every review - i don't know why they would hold it back. Apple already has the 326 dpi screen being manufactured for the iPhone, so the only issue is scaling it up in size at volume production for the mini at acceptable cost. yes, this will be different than the Jobs era. we are finally seeing the differences now - the iPad 4 release timing was certainly Cook's decision. and then there is yesterday's huge management shake-up. i think it is also likely we will see some major changes to iOS 7 at WWDC next spring, thanks to Ive now being in control instead of Forestall - also certainly Cook's decision.

given these big changes in Apple leadership this last year, i think assuming other things won't change in some major ways is very unlikely. the Jobs era really is over now. you think i engage in wishful thinking. i think you are stuck in the past.

I said unprecedented for a new Apple product.  The iPad 4 is the 4th iteration.  And it was a special case driven by synchronizing with a new product in the family.

Apple has never brought out a new (ie version 1) and then released version 2, six months later.  So that would be unprecedented to do version 2 of the Mini in spring, no matter how much you want it to happen.

You keep using a single special case, one time event, as the basis for a potential, every 6 months upgrade fantasy. That is just silly.

Even two events wouldn't be enough for a pattern. But one is nothing more than an anomaly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

That's likely the next iPhone ASIC so you're predicting in less than a year we'll see 64-bit in the A7. I'll take that bet.
PS: I hope I lose this one.

The A4 debuted on the iPad followed by the iPhone 4 and the A5 appeared on the iPad 2 before the 4S.   My guess is that the A6 was late...so if the A7 is late as well and Apple ends up on a 1.5 year CPU cycle then yah, 2014.  That might lead to the iPhone 6 and iPad 5 remaining on a Cortex A15 variant...which would kinda suck.  Far more annoying than giving some worthwhile charity ten bucks.

Now all we have to do is remember this next year.

Originally Posted by philky 
And in the tablets market, sometimes even if you are prepared to pay more you don't necessarily get the same quality product

There's no tablet market. There's an iPad market. People know they pay for quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nht 

 

The A4 debuted on the iPad followed by the iPhone 4 and the A5 appeared on the iPad 2 before the 4S.   My guess is that the A6 was late...so if the A7 is late as well and Apple ends up on a 1.5 year CPU cycle then yah, 2014.  That might lead to the iPhone 6 and iPad 5 remaining on a Cortex A15 variant...which would kinda suck.  Far more annoying than giving some worthwhile charity ten bucks.

 

Now all we have to do is remember this next year.

The A6 is not a Cortex A15 variant, so how could the iPhone 6 and iPad 5 [b]remain[/b] on a Cortex A15 variant?   The A6 is an all-new ARMv7s architecture core that Apple designed.  It is not a variant of Cortex A9 or A15.  Google "anandtech.com a6 apple" for more info.