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Romney blatantly politicizes Sandy; impedes real relief efforts - Page 2

post #41 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


I'd have to say, reading these threads as an unaffiliated observer, that I cannot distinguish much difference in style of attack between left and right. I see just as much false outrage from both sides.

 

 

You can certainly distinguish fact from fiction--and objectively, one side does indeed favor the latter.  You are dangerously treading near a false equivalence fallacy.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #42 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

Maddow is disgusting....absolutely disgusting.  

Ad hom.  Care to provide counterpoints instead?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #43 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

Maddow is disgusting....absolutely disgusting.  

 

Rachel Maddow is the corporate media's token pro-US-people offering in an ocean of bankster lackeys, lapdog corporatist apologists, jingoists, religious hacks and rightwing propagandists. She took over the gap left when Keith Olbermann left MSNBC, the corporate media's previous previous token pro-US-people offering. Both offer/offered a centrist viewpoint, which prompts the "socialist" (!) accusations from so many on the US right. This is an understandable view, but a rank misperception, on account of the fact that the US right has moved towards the extreme right of the political spectrum in the last decades, and anyone offering a more civilized set of values is routinely namecalled - all that's left in the absence of facts and substance.

 

As far as the "disgusting" ad hominem goes, at least Maddow never lied to the American people to garner support for illegal and unconstitutional wars to benefit HER popularity, and the bank accounts of HER business associates. 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #44 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Speaking of politicizing hurricane Sandy...

 

I like how this terrible disaster has become a launching pad for some big government folks to wag their fingers at those who argue for smaller government and say: "See, we need big government." Of course they all use any number of fallacies to "prove" their points. One even jumped right into straw man mode.

 

Four years ago it was the financial crisis that "proved" we needed government to protected us from "unregulated and unrestrained" capitalism. Now it is government that must save us from natural disasters. It's almost like government is god in some people's eyes: Omniscient, omnipotent, caring, loving, etc.

 

Democrats always want to throw up the strong man that smaller government means small government people want NO government intervention. As if a discussion of what the size and scale of the government isn't worth even having because the other side wants nothing at all. Better to shut down the discussion rather than consider ideas like block grants or contracting with private resources to provide necessities. Better to have millions in unused FEMA trailers get crushed rather than consider that maybe it's not possible to have Uncle Sam provide temp' housing that rolled up and dropped off.

post #45 of 61
Thread Starter 

Wonderful rebuttal to the idea of block grants and decentralizing FEMA:

 

 

 

 

Quote:

What an extraordinarily unwise idea. So you would have all 50 states have the expertise and resources on hand instead of centralizing them? For events that are by their very nature unusual and infrequent? How often does New York have to deal with hurricane force winds? Let every state have a full staff of people with expertise in crisis management, logistics, water and power safety, disease control etc.

 

Well that surely makes sense

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #46 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ad hom.  Care to provide counterpoints instead?

 

Why...does she?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #47 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wonderful rebuttal to the idea of block grants and decentralizing FEMA:

 

 

[quote]What an extraordinarily unwise idea. So you would have all 50 states have the expertise and resources on hand instead of centralizing them? For events that are by their very nature unusual and infrequent? How often does New York have to deal with hurricane force winds? Let every state have a full staff of people with expertise in crisis management, logistics, water and power safety, disease control etc.

 

Well that surely makes sense[/quote]

 

 

Actually a terrible rebuttal. Every single city, county and state has disaster relief plans in place and ready to go. Local fire, police and city crews are trained and in the best position to respond. No central planning needed. No government administrator in DC required to respond to a flood in Appalachians or a fire out west. FEMA doesn't even swoop in a save the day. They only work with locals. As always the large government always moves slow while they check union cards and make sure no minority is underrepresented in the clean up contracting.

 

So yea, **** FEMA and centralized planning.

post #48 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

 

Actually a terrible rebuttal. Every single city, county and state has disaster relief plans in place and ready to go. Local fire, police and city crews are trained and in the best position to respond. No central planning needed. No government administrator in DC required to respond to a flood in Appalachians or a fire out west. FEMA doesn't even swoop in a save the day. They only work with locals. As always the large government always moves slow while they check union cards and make sure no minority is underrepresented in the clean up contracting.

 

So yea, **** FEMA and centralized planning.

 

Excellent point.  And check out how FEMA is doing in Staten Island.  Check out Big Sis Napolitano telling people the reason there's no food, water and gas is that they had to give it to the first responders...but they'd be getting on top of it in the next "few day."  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #49 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

Excellent point.  And check out how FEMA is doing in Staten Island.  Check out Big Sis Napolitano telling people the reason there's no food, water and gas is that they had to give it to the first responders...but they'd be getting on top of it in the next "few day."  

 

 At least, as regards the response to Sandy, there hasn't been any incidents (that we know) of FEMA deliberately cutting vital communication lines between the affected cities and the outside world. This DID happen with Hurricane Katrina, and DHS honcho/thug Chertoff should have resigned, or been arrested and charged with reckless endangerment - at the very least.

 

Watch the Jefferson Parish President explain what happened, on Meet the Press, in the aftermath of Katrina. It is not easy viewing. A disgusting exhibition of the neocon mindset at work. 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #50 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wonderful rebuttal to the idea of block grants and decentralizing FEMA:

 

 

Quote:

What an extraordinarily unwise idea. So you would have all 50 states have the expertise and resources on hand instead of centralizing them? For events that are by their very nature unusual and infrequent? How often does New York have to deal with hurricane force winds? Let every state have a full staff of people with expertise in crisis management, logistics, water and power safety, disease control etc.

 

Well that surely makes sense

 

 

The individual being quoted here isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer...  Very, VERY few states plan for, and need to plan for, hurricanes.  Just like very few states and localities need to plan for major avalanches, earthquakes, volcanoes, blizzards, and many other regional types of emergencies and natural disasters.  Yes there are occassions when some federal assistance is both necessary and appropriate, but let's face it, state and local government is much better situated to understand and respond to the unique challenges provided by these kinds of events.  Declaring a state of emergency at the federal level to eliminate some red tape and place on hold some regulations that delay assistance is vitally important in a case like Sandy or Katrina, but most of what is going to be done to recover from a hurricane like this takes place in the local communities.

post #51 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

 

The individual being quoted here isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer...  Very, VERY few states plan for, and need to plan for, hurricanes.  

 

The number of states which can experience hurricanes is not "very, VERY few", as you claim. Here they are, running from West to East: HI, TX, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, MD, DE, NJ, PA, NY, CT, RI, VT, NH, and ME.... That list approaches half the number of states in the Union....and on top of that, there's Washington DC, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands and Guam.  The total population of these coastal states and territories with an immediate threat from landfalling hurricanes is about 160 million, or more than half of the total population of the US. Furthermore, hurricane season lasts from June 1 to November 30, or half the year. Occasionally, a rogue storm can hit out of season.

 

In addition, other states adjacent to these, but without a coastline can occasionally get hit hard from the more powerful storms' wind field penetrating well inland, or  flooding from the intense rain which often accompanies decaying tropical systems which have run inland. Furthermore taking history into consideration the human and economic loss from hurricanes is undoubtedly in the increase. 9 of the 10 most costly storms to ever impact the United States have happened since the year 2000... the other was Andrew in 1992.

 

I would contend that to be prepared for, and educated about, hurricanes and tropical storms - as regards these large areas and populations that are at risk, is a sensible course of action.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #52 of 61

Sammi, I think you forgot California, Oregon and Washington.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_hurricanes

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #53 of 61

I am really disappointed in America in so much that this election is even close. I am so anti-Romney I just can't imagine how this country has devolved to even consider a candidate so objectionable and despicable. If Romney wins this election I will no longer consider myself an American. If he is elected this once great nation will plunge into recession and take the entire global economy with it into the dark ages. Meanwhile I will try to weather the storm from the safety of mountains of Central America. Romney is just so wrong for this nation I cannot even comprehend how anyone would vote for him, but since it is undeniable that people will, perhaps they are racist or just uneducated, it will make me really sad if these lying assholes are able to convince the clueless rednecks and high school dropouts to  steal the election from the intellectuals and promote their corrupt wall street criminal enterprise into the White House.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I am really disappointed in America in so much that this election is even close. I am so anti-Romney I just can't imagine how this country has devolved to even consider a candidate so objectionable and despicable. If Romney wins this election I will no longer consider myself an American. If he is elected this once great nation will plunge into recession and take the entire global economy with it into the dark ages. Meanwhile I will try to weather the storm from the safety of mountains of Central America. Romney is just so wrong for this nation I cannot even comprehend how anyone would vote for him, but since it is undeniable that people will, perhaps they are racist or just uneducated, it will make me really sad if these lying assholes are able to convince the clueless rednecks and high school dropouts to  steal the election from the intellectuals and promote their corrupt wall street criminal enterprise into the White House.

Maybe he'll lend you his private jet to evacuate.

post #55 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I am really disappointed in America in so much that this election is even close. I am so anti-Romney I just can't imagine how this country has devolved to even consider a candidate so objectionable and despicable. If Romney wins this election I will no longer consider myself an American. If he is elected this once great nation will plunge into recession and take the entire global economy with it into the dark ages. Meanwhile I will try to weather the storm from the safety of mountains of Central America. Romney is just so wrong for this nation I cannot even comprehend how anyone would vote for him, but since it is undeniable that people will, perhaps they are racist or just uneducated, it will make me really sad if these lying assholes are able to convince the clueless rednecks and high school dropouts to  steal the election from the intellectuals and promote their corrupt wall street criminal enterprise into the White House.

 

1.  How did we elect a former community organizer with no executive experience, a radical background and a two word platform? 

2.  Aren't we already experiencing a terrible economy?  

3.  I can't comprehend how anyone could vote for Obama.  

4.  Ahh, more bigotry...anyone who votes for Romney is racist or uneducated.  Project much? 

5.  Are you suggesting intellectuals should run the country?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #56 of 61
Thread Starter 

On 5...damn straight they should.  The Michelle Bachman/John Kyl/Todd Akin/et al anti-science lunatics shouldn't be allowed anywhere near positions of power.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #57 of 61

Meanwhile our universities are bastions of efficiency, cost-containment and easily manage to use their collective brain power to avoid problems.

 

Oh wait, there's a massive education bubble, largely funded by government backed loans and grants that is going to pop soon.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #58 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

On 5...damn straight they should.  The Michelle Bachman/John Kyl/Todd Akin/et al anti-science lunatics shouldn't be allowed anywhere near positions of power.

 

So there are no intellectuals who are also conservative Christians?  Do moral and personal beliefs matter?  Character?  Are intellectuals capable of being wrong?

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #59 of 61
Thread Starter 

If they reject science, then they aren't fit to serve.  Sorry.  If they are able to withstand the cognitive dissonance and compartmentalize their religious beliefs away from a legitimate understanding of science, then fine.  

 

There is nothing inherently noble about the strength of one's beliefs--especially when they aren't evidence based.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #60 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If they reject science, then they aren't fit to serve.  Sorry.  If they are able to withstand the cognitive dissonance and compartmentalize their religious beliefs away from a legitimate understanding of science, then fine.  

 

There is nothing inherently noble about the strength of one's beliefs--especially when they aren't evidence based.

 

1.  So we should have a science test to vote or run for office?  Scored by you, I assume?  

 

2.  Who gets to decide what constitutes "evidence?"  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #61 of 61
Thread Starter 

1.  I think the electorate should be educated enough to not vote in nutters who claim that evolution is a lie from the pit of hell.

 

2.  If it's the voices in your head, it's not evidence.  If it's the translated and retranslated and mistranslated and retranslated millenia old ramblings of ancient desert dwellers--it's not fucking evidence.  Let's just start with those two.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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