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Functional Chinese knock-off of Apple's Lightning cable disassembled - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I'm sorry I've change my post after your reply.
...but you didn't fix the count of pins? (pins 1-11+shield > 9)
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


...but you didn't fix the count of pins? (pins 1-11+shield > 9)

 

Mstone made the count, it wasn't me.

 

Beside it doesn't change the fact that USB 3 doesn't have enough unused pin nor the Lightning port abilities to output all signals we need from a dock port for a mobile device. 

post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I'm sorry I've change my post after your reply.

What is special about the Lightning to Apple Dock adapter is the audio DAC is within the cable's connector, a bad DAC or bad analog stage design can make it prone to analog noise if you're using the Dock audio output

It would matter if you are using an audio dock, but analog audio has no bearing on this particular cable. It would on a dock, but it's best to use the headphone jack for analog out.
Edited by JeffDM - 10/31/12 at 12:20pm
post #44 of 68

While I think it is pointless to criticize Apple’s decision to use the lightning connector, I was pissed that even Apple was not able to provide adapters or other accessories on launch day—this just exasperates the knock-off issue.  Soon, other unapproved accessories (docks, car chargers, etc.) will come to market, and Apple may be scrambling to play catch-up.  Since analog audio-out is on the bottom of the iPhone 5, and power via Lightning was reverse engineered, a dock with audio out is the next step IMO.  I’ll buy the first car adapter I see—Apple-approved or not—as long as it has decent reviews.


Edited by gordy - 10/31/12 at 12:01pm
post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

While I think it is pointless to criticize Apple’s decision to roll the lightning connector, I was pissed that even Apple was not able to provide adapters or other accessories on launch day—this just exasperates the knock-off issue.  Soon, other unapproved accessories (docks, car chargers, etc.) will come to market, and Apple may be scrambling to play catch-up.  Since analog audio-out is on the bottom of the iPhone 5, and power via Lightning was reverse engineered, a dock with audio out is the next step IMO.  I’ll buy the first car adapter I see—Apple-approved or not—as long as it has decent reviews.

 

My only deception with Apple is the lack of public specs about the lightning port, we don't know much about it yet.

post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by encino View Post

So someone can just buy a real one from the Apple store and swap it with this fake and return it? If it looks identical, the store will easily take it back. Just be sure to use cash so it won't be traced back to you, if the store even figured it out. Even if they catch you, you can say that's the original cable that came with it, but I doubt they'll track it.

such cheap fraud!...

wow, someone trumped my getting a 14.99 win8 upgrade though the "yes-i-really-did-just-buy-a-computer-so-i-can-try-a-"new"-os-that-only-has-cool-task-manager"...
Edited by haar - 10/31/12 at 12:14pm
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickelo View Post

I registered just to say that:
WHAT WE HELL IS "the connection is "very noisy""???
It is DATA cable, for digital data! Digital signal physically can be noisy by itself, but it never effects the data you send! That is one of the main purposes why we use digital signals!
Syncing and connecting to music player with USB-Lighting cable involves only digital signal, so WTF Frank Donghi is talking about? What you need silver handmade cable? Really?
Man, I'm so pissed as a student of telecommunication.

 

I was wondering the same thing... "Noise? On a digital line? Huh?" Sure, I suppose the lack of shielding could allow EMI or RFI to distort the signal somewhat and it wouldn't be wrong to call it "noise" but unless it's bad enough to corrupt the data stream it should be imperceptible.

 

I found myself wondering if a vested interest in selling $250 custom cables influenced his analysis.

post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Of course the generalization doesn't mean they're all bad. But there is a risk, at least of wasting money and time. Generally unlicensed dock connector cables fell apart considerably quicker than licensed ones.

Unless it is a cable for the Kindle. @#$%!!

post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I'm sorry I've change my post after your reply.

 

What is special about the Lightning to Apple Dock adapter is the audio DAC is within the cable's connector, a bad DAC or bad analog stage design can make it prone to analog noise if you're using the Dock audio output

 

What the article references is NOT an adaptor though. It is the USB-Lightning cable. There is no DAC, no analog stage, and no place for interference to induce the audible variety of "noise."

post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

Have you ever actually used micro-USB?  Every time I plug the thing in, I have to stop, check the orientation, and then try to insert the thing...sometimes not getting it right on the first try.  The whole point of the new connector was ease of use, and multiple applications.  So you can do USB...or analog audio, or HDMI or whatever comes down the pike.
Lol, yep micro-USB has a direction to be plugged... I guess paying the lighting cable $19.99 while it should cost a quarter of that price -i.e. with a reasonable margin- is all too justified to remove that standard connector "confusion". The whole point of a proprietary connector when standard connectors alternatives exist is to have control and to make even more margin on the usual people, Apple could have gone with micro-usb and micro-hdmi but it would have missed the outrageous margin...
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Lol, yep micro-USB has a direction to be plugged... I guess paying the lighting cable $19.99 while it should cost a quarter of that price -i.e. with a reasonable margin- is all too justified to remove that standard connector "confusion". The whole point of a proprietary connector when standard connectors alternatives exist is to have control and to make even more margin on the usual people, Apple could have gone with micro-usb and micro-hdmi but it would have missed the outrageous margin...

The reversibility is just one aspect of the design. You don't think the Lightning connector might be more rugged? It looks to me to be a more sturdy mechanical design being a solid potted/fused connector design rather than separate pieces crimped together. I like that it's a smooth detent design rather than a spongy friction fit that the smaller USB connectors are.

I can't say I like the idea of spending more, but it's clearly a better design. Mini and micro USB just aren't impressive in any measure except for how pervasive it is. Mechanically, it's not that sound. Mini USB 3 is a silly boondoggle as well, and Lightning can probably adapt just fine without changing the connector.
Edited by JeffDM - 10/31/12 at 1:33pm
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You don't think the Lightning connector might be more rugged? It looks to me to be a more sturdy mechanical design. The reversibility is just one aspect of the design. I like that it's a detent design rather than a spongy friction fit that the smaller USB connectors are.
Well we will see how long they last, the only sure thing is that it will still cost you far more than if you were allowed to use non-proprietary aka industry standard connectors, and that will remain an unfortunate constant. I am all for standard connectors, what Apple could have done is to merge the above mentioned standard connectors side-to-side on its cord/adapters, you will still have the direction "issue" but the convenience of a single cord and ubiquitous industry standards.
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I'm sorry I've change my post after your reply.

 

What is special about the Lightning to Apple Dock adapter is the audio DAC is within the cable's connector, a bad DAC or bad analog stage design can make it prone to analog noise if you're using the Dock audio output

I am not sure if DAC is inside of a data cable. I mean that is the point of putting DAC into cable which has lighting on one side and TYPE-A USB on another?

post #54 of 68

so, uh, will there be some kind of sticker or mark for authorized lightning cables to help uninformed customers such as myself?

post #55 of 68
Originally Posted by tania View Post
so, uh, will there be some kind of sticker or mark for authorized lightning cables to help uninformed customers such as myself?

 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surothog View Post

I could swear that there was a law that dealt with reverse engineering of encrypted protocols. In particular, it was based on reverse-engineering of the protocol used in printer cartridges. I could swear that the law pretty much said you can't just reverse engineer a communications protocol and sell that product. If that's the case, then as mentioned above, when these hit the shores, there should be lawyers aplenty.
Does anyone recall the relevant details of the law on this topic? It's been years, so it's fuzzy.

I suspect that you're referring to DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). The law says that it's illegal to reverse engineer something that is encrypted for the purpose of restricting access:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

I don't believe it has been established that Apple's cable has encryption. If it's not encrypted, then copying is allowed (as long as no patents are violated). If it's encrypted, then making a copy could be a DMCA violation, although the law is not really settled in the courts yet.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #57 of 68

Other companies manufactured the 30 Pin connectors legally so I assume that we will indeed see some such cables. They will probably not be knockoff apple like this one, but will instead be branded to manufacturers. I assume that these will be available on Ebay for shipping from Hong Kong like most knockoffs though. I have a knockoff non-working iPhone 5 on my shelf that I got from HK for $12 including shipping. I have an iPhone 4 and I'm waiting for the seventh generation, but I loved the design so I bought that to bide me time.

Come visit and chat with me about Apple: Appstorechronicle.com

Email Me: Editor@appstorechronicle.com

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Come visit and chat with me about Apple: Appstorechronicle.com

Email Me: Editor@appstorechronicle.com

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post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Lightning cables only benefit Apple. I'm glad someone has managed to do this and hopefully many more companies start making 'knock offs'.

 

Either that or Apple does a u-turn and does the sensible thing by adding micro USB to every device.

 

My current Android phone takes forever to charge using micro USB compared to my old iPhone 3G.  That's plugging it directly to an AC outlet.  When plugging it into my computer USB plugin the difference in battery charge times is even more noticeable.  The iPhone with the old 30 pin connector just charged my iPhone faster than does the micro USB charging my Android.  There is a slight difference in battery size though in which my Android is bigger but the difference is still extreme.  I don't know why this is the case as I thought they would have comparable results but it is.

Just to give you an idea and this is not accurate test results but just quesstimating.  If charging the phones from 0% battery the iPhone would be done charging and the Android would still be under but close to 50%.

 

Personally I think people blow this whole proprietary cable stuff out of proportion.  It's not as if you have to buy the wire separate when you buy an Apple device, as it comes packaged with one, unless you want to buy an extra one.  I don't see anyone complaining that most Android phones these days don't come with headphones causing you to have to buy them along with the purchase of your phone. 

 

People are going to complain about all the devices (such as alarm clocks and speakers) that used the old plug.  So if Apple was to have switched to micro USB this time around wouldn't that still make your devices incompatible?  All the people that complained about that would still be complaining.

 

I think this is just one of those things that people will complain just for the sake of complaining against Apple. 

 

In the same token, when they don't redesign the iPhone allowing you to use the same case you had with your previous iPhone, if you upgraded from a 4 to 4s, then Apple sucks and is doing nothing new for you.

post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

What? Donghi's website charges £100 for an "iPhone-5-Audiophile-Silver-Custom-Made-Lightning-Cable", the only product found by a site search for "lightning".

Yes, but it uses pure silver plated, ultra pure copper wires that he hand braids(perhaps on his shaved naked thigh?)

Apparently somebody thinks this makes the digital signal even better!

 

I can see the king's new clothes, can't you? 


Edited by DESuserIGN - 10/31/12 at 5:02pm
post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickelo View Post

I am not sure if DAC is inside of a data cable. I mean that is the point of putting DAC into cable which has lighting on one side and TYPE-A USB on another?

 

I was not clear enough and others have already corrected me,  only the lightning to legacy iPod dock port adapter have the DAC inside the cable. 

post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessedapple View Post

Other companies manufactured the 30 Pin connectors legally so I assume that we will indeed see some such cables. They will probably not be knockoff apple like this one, but will instead be branded to manufacturers. I assume that these will be available on Ebay for shipping from Hong Kong like most knockoffs though.

There will be licensed third party Lightning connector devices. The conference on Lighting connectors is happening in the next couple weeks, I think.
post #62 of 68
So, these cable sellers are actually getting a cheap version, spice it up and then reselling it at higher than usual prices? The inside still a cheap counterfeit.
post #63 of 68
neiltc13:

MicroUSB is not "the sensible thing". It's a mechanically inferior connector which is less durable and doesn't do all the things Lightning can do. Lightning can support HDMI out and DVI out, and has dynamically-configurable pins so that it can support more interfaces in the future that don't even exist yet.

MicroUSB is also thicker, which is a consideration.

Apple knows what the sensible thing is far more than you.
post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickelo View Post

I registered just to say that:
WHAT WE HELL IS "the connection is "very noisy""???
It is DATA cable, for digital data! Digital signal physically can be noisy by itself, but it never effects the data you send! That is one of the main purposes why we use digital signals!
Syncing and connecting to music player with USB-Lighting cable involves only digital signal, so WTF Frank Donghi is talking about? What you need silver handmade cable? Really?
Man, I'm so pissed as a student of telecommunication.

Noisy cabling in digital is just as important than in analog, sometimes, even more important. It depends on signal strength, as always. With analog, noise is imposed upon the signal, but the signal can still be used in a noisy environment. With digital, if the noise to too high, the signal is completely lost. This is why digital broadcasting cuts off more suddenly than does analog broadcasting.

It's also why we see digititus on Tv sometimes. When the noise rises above a certain level, the equipment can't distinguish between the noise and the bits, so we get random blocks appearing on screen. If the noise is too great, the signal disappears altogether. Really cheap digital cables cause a lot of problems, even though many people don't notice it. A 99 cent USB cable may seem fine, but it can cause a retransmission of the data a number of times, slowing everything down.
post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Thank for the info, 

Where is audio in/out and Analog/Digital Video? While have about the same amount of PIN, those in USB ports are not dynamically assign to route multiple signalling through the same port.  USB is only good for Host-Device peering, not device to device 

USB3 is different from earlier implementations. It's more like FW in a number of ways. Transmission of audio and video streams is supported, unlike previously, where is was all packet based. It also relies less on a host for certain functions.

Still, it's much less versatile than the Lightning connector for third party hardware. Micro USB is almost useless for that purpose other than for some Midi equipment.
post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen View Post

The real way to cutoff 3rd party cables is to have no cable at all.  Wireless sync and charge.  Not sure why Apple is not doing that and is playing games with the knock-off manufacturers.

As you should know, we can do wireless sync. Wireless charging is much less useful, even though some companies are making a big deal about it. You still need to have a charger plugged into a wall. Where's the advantage? So instead of having a small box at your wall outlet, and a thin cable to your device, you now need a device on your table to put your phone on to. That's supposed to be better? And it's less efficient, requires more hardware in the phone, and the charger costs more.

Some advantage!
post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Well we will see how long they last, the only sure thing is that it will still cost you far more than if you were allowed to use non-proprietary aka industry standard connectors, and that will remain an unfortunate constant. I am all for standard connectors, what Apple could have done is to merge the above mentioned standard connectors side-to-side on its cord/adapters, you will still have the direction "issue" but the convenience of a single cord and ubiquitous industry standards.

Those industry standards arn't very versatile when compared to Apple's. Why should they take several steps backwards?
post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen View Post

The real way to cutoff 3rd party cables is to have no cable at all.

 

Soooooo sloooooooow. Anywhere from 10-50GB over the air? It would take hours.

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