UK court orders Apple to rewrite website statement saying Samsung didn't copy the iPad - Page 4

The UK is a joke when it comes to free speech and what you can and can not say on the internet.

If you write something on the internet that is "out of step with public opinion", you can end up in jail, as several people already have.

And don't the judges all wear these idiotic wigs? You can't take people seriously who play dress up and wear idiotic wigs. Forcing Apple to post that statement was childish to begin with.

If I were in charge of Apple, I'd pull out of the UK for at least 6 months or so, and not sell a single product there. Money isn't everything, and some things are more important than money.

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Originally Posted by ChiA 

 

The EU has 27 member states with at least 27 different legal systems.  I say at least, because one member state, the UK, has three, the legal systems of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

 

Yes, the EU has recommendations (Directives) for principles to be legally implemented by every member nation, but these principles are subject to how they're interpreted and implemented within each member state's laws, hence the need for the European Court of Justice to resolve the inevitable arguments and debates.

This was decided in a Community Court - the decision applies EU-wide.

"Judge Birss's order (which at that point was assumed to be correct, we had not yet decided the appeal) applied throughout the EU because he was sitting as a Community Court. So eventually, but only in Lord Grabiner's reply speech, Apple accepted that the German injunction should be discharged altogether and undertook to this court forthwith to apply to the German court for it to be discharged."

The intention, judges said, was not to make Apple "grovel", but to remove "commercial uncertainty" surrounding Samsung's products.

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Originally Posted by protaginets 

Are you kidding me?  What about the judge acting out by ordering the statement in the first place.  Fine Apple lost, do they need to walk around with a banner saying our stuff is cooler than Samsungs?  Hell no!

Of course not, that wasn't the judgement.  Not that Apple would be, or have been, particularly hurt by being forced to publicly state that their products have been officially judged to be cooler than Samsung's.  Which makes this whole charade all the more stupid, Apple have dug themselves into a hole when they could have been soaring on the back of a lost court case that declared them to be cooler.  If that's a lost court case then who needs to win?

But no, they had to be "the rebel", had to bite the hand that was feeding them just because they don't like to lose.  Like Apple, hate Apple's legal machine.

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Originally Posted by whatever71 

Love it.  Some global moderator disagrees with points made so that automatically makes me & anyone else from the UK daring to agree with the legal slap a liar.  Should I guess from the level of stupidity shown that Tallest Skill is possibly from the perfect USA?

Now, now, there is no need to bring the "perfect USA" into this.  I do think TS shouldn't be calling people on the board liers, but I also think this judge should be locked up in a padded room for ordering Apple to post ANYTHING at their expense.  Period.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

All these new single post signups… all from the UK… and all lying… 

 

Humor.

 

(Oh, sorry, "humour".)

Oh dear - first time posters must be liars, fantastic logic.  Any chance of moderating my 4th post?  Kind of Stalinist of you to hold back posts which you disagree with isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Crowley 

Of course not, that wasn't the judgement.  Not that Apple would be, or have been, particularly hurt by being forced to publicly state that their products have been officially judged to be cooler than Samsung's.  Which makes this whole charade all the more stupid, Apple have dug themselves into a hole when they could have been soaring on the back of a lost court case that declared them to be cooler.  If that's a lost court case then who needs to win?

 

But no, they had to be "the rebel", had to bite the hand that was feeding them just because they don't like to lose.  Like Apple, hate Apple's legal machine.

Making Apple post on their home web site at their expense that Samsung didn't copy them (when we all know they did), was exactly the judgement.  And having to do it across the whole EU is flaming idiotic.  Apple didn't dig themselves in a hole, they just did as the judge did.  Acted like a school yard bully.  They don't put anything legal on the front page, they link to it.  That's what they did here.  Their not rebels, they did exactly what they do.  You can't give them crap for being Apple.

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Originally Posted by Crowley 

An analogy.

 

I'm your dad.  I don't like pickles, which you're fully aware of.  You've misbehaved, and as part of making it up to me, I tell you to go make me a ham sandwich, which you do, but knowingly put a couple of pickles in it.

 

Doesn't matter how much you whine "I did what I was told to", you're getting grounded.

That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen.  It actually proves Tallest Skil's point.  Dad gave instructions that were vague and ambiguous--subject to interpretation because he didn't include his dislike of pickles by reference.  And now child is being grounded because child failed to look up dad's ass and read his mind?

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Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff 

 

That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen.  It actually proves Tallest Skil's point.  Dad gave instructions that were vague and ambiguous--subject to interpretation because he didn't include his dislike of pickles by reference.  And now child is being grounded because child failed to look up dad's ass and read his mind?

But atleast the kid has the satisfaction of knowing the dad won't ever ask for a sandwich from him again, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by protaginets 

 

Making Apple post on their home web site at their expense that Samsung didn't copy them (when we all know they did), was exactly the judgement.  And having to do it across the whole EU is flaming idiotic.  Apple didn't dig themselves in a hole, they just did as the judge did.  Acted like a school yard bully.  They don't put anything legal on the front page, they link to it.  That's what they did here.  Their not rebels, they did exactly what they do.  You can't give them crap for being Apple.

1. It's not across the whole EU, just the UK.
2. If it did apply to all websites across the EU and the EU were fully legally integrated then it wouldn't be idiotic, it would be a judgement applying to a jurisdiction, the size of which is irrelevant.
3. Apple did dig themselves into a hole, this reaction was very predictable, and has caused a lot of negative publicity, Apple coming across less as a rich and powerful multinational and more of a legal worm.
4. The judge didn't bully them   get real, a notice on their website that hardly anyone will read anyway is nothing.  Apple need to learn to take punches.
5. That final paragraph was clearly indolent, and born of a rebellious streak against the spirit of the court judgement.  Doesn't matter if the wording is true and accurate, it's there for one purpose alone, to derail the message and undermine the statement.  Anyone who denies it is deluded.

Ok, for some reason Apple Insider did not include all of the information which was reported by BBC News. I will not link the article, you can Google Search "Apple ordered to re-write 'inaccurate' Samsung statement", but I digress. I believe the biggest reason for the verdict, per BBC News:

"Samsung complained that the notice posted by Apple was "inaccurate and misleading" because it added comments about other rulings in Germany and the US that had gone in the iPad-maker's favour. "This has received enormous publicity and has perpetuated confusion as to Samsung's entitlement to market the Galaxy tablet computers in issue," a Samsung lawyer said in a written statement to judges. "It has created the impression that the UK court is out of step with other courts." The UK's ruling applies to the whole of the EU."

So Apple can say that the Samsung Galaxy is not a copy but it is not as cool as the iPad as long as they do not mention other judgements. In fact they can unveil a spec sheet on their apology comparing the two, as long as they don't mention other judgements. It's one thing to turn something bad in your favor and its another to make a mockery out of the courts that are forcing you to do it.

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Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff 

 

That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen.  It actually proves Tallest Skil's point.  Dad gave instructions that were vague and ambiguous--subject to interpretation because he didn't include his dislike of pickles by reference.  And now child is being grounded because child failed to look up dad's ass and read his mind?

Did you miss the part where I said the kid is fully aware of the Dad's dislike for pickles and put them in deliberately?

I'm amazed by the dual standards of requiring that Apple receive completely unambiguous instruction in all matters, yet decrying Apple being treated like a child.  Logic, there is no place for you at the Appleinsider forums.

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Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

The UK is a joke when it comes to free speech and what you can and can not say on the internet.

 

If you write something on the internet that is "out of step with public opinion", you can end up in jail, as several people already have.

 

And don't the judges all wear these idiotic wigs? You can't take people seriously who play dress up and wear idiotic wigs. Forcing Apple to post that statement was childish to begin with.

 

If I were in charge of Apple, I'd pull out of the UK for at least 6 months or so, and not sell a single product there. Money isn't everything, and some things are more important than money.

You better take me seriously!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley 

1. It's not across the whole EU, just the UK.
2. If it did apply to all websites across the EU and the EU were fully legally integrated then it wouldn't be idiotic, it would be a judgement applying to a jurisdiction, the size of which is irrelevant.
3. Apple did dig themselves into a hole, this reaction was very predictable, and has caused a lot of negative publicity, Apple coming across less as a rich and powerful multinational and more of a legal worm.
4. The judge didn't bully them   get real, a notice on their website that hardly anyone will read anyway is nothing.  Apple need to learn to take punches.
5. That final paragraph was clearly indolent, and born of a rebellious streak against the spirit of the court judgement.  Doesn't matter if the wording is true and accurate, it's there for one purpose alone, to derail the message and undermine the statement.  Anyone who denies it is deluded.

I swear, there is something in the air that makes the English (and people who move to England) feel superior and smarter than everyoine else in the world.  Anyone (non british) who reads about this judge telling Apple they did it wrong is going to see the judge as a idiotic bully.  Ok, anyone with a semblance of common sense.  I would bet even the lawyers at Samsung are scratching their heads wondering what is up this judge's bum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley 

Did you miss the part where I said the kid is fully aware of the Dad's dislike for pickles and put them in deliberately?

 

I'm amazed by the dual standards of requiring that Apple receive completely unambiguous instruction in all matters, yet decrying Apple being treated like a child.  Logic, there is no place for you at the Appleinsider forums.

It was a bad analogy. There was no reason for Apple to think the additional facts would upset  the court. Most of the additional statements came from the UK court itself. The last one added factual context to the issue.

Your analogy would be better if the son brought his father a beer with his sandwich and the father beats the boy for suggesting he is an alcoholic.

Please! Please! Apple, continue to be a smart ass and piss off the UK courts. I have my popcorn ready.

Maybe everyone in England sees bullying with less hyper-sensitivity than the US.  People get bullied.  Children (omigosh) get bullied.  The richest corporation in the world does not get bullied.

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Originally Posted by Tulkas 

There was no reason for Apple to think the additional facts would upset  the court. 

Then this is where we disagree.  I think this is bull.  Apple knew full well what they were doing and saying.  Maybe they thought the court wouldn't take any action over it, but they sure as hell knew they wouldn't like it.

PS.  I'm not sure how the beer analogy is any better.  How would the kid be expected to predict that reaction?  If anything it's a way more unpredictable reaction.  In my analogy the kid knows the father doesn't like pickles.  But it's just an analogy, let's move past it....

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Originally Posted by Clocknova 

Couldn't Apple just refuse? What's the worst that could happen? They'll make the UK angry? Surely they can afford to pull out of that market if it comes to that. It's a fairly small market.
No offense intended to UK customers, but a court demanding a written apology like this is just silly.

Here you have it ladies and gents... The product of a failing education system: " Surely they can afford to pull out of that market if it comes to that. It's a fairly small market."...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley 

Then this is where we disagree.  I think this is bull.  Apple knew full well what they were doing and saying.  Maybe they thought the court wouldn't take any action over it, but they sure as hell knew they wouldn't like it.

 

PS.  I'm not sure how the beer analogy is any better.  How would the kid be expected to predict that reaction?  If anything it's a way more unpredictable reaction.  In my analogy the kid knows the father doesn't like pickles.  But it's just an analogy, let's move past it....

I included the beer for this reason: Apple included additional facts, some of which were from the court itself. There is no reason to think a court would not want details of it's decision included in the posting of the decision. Just like there is no reason for the son to think the father would be angry about the beer. 

Isn't socialism wonderful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by protaginets 

I swear, there is something in the air that makes the English (and people who move to England) feel superior and smarter than everyoine else in the world.  Anyone (non british) who reads about this judge telling Apple they did it wrong is going to see the judge as a idiotic bully.  Ok, anyone with a semblance of common sense.  I would bet even the lawyers at Samsung are scratching their heads wondering what is up this judge's bum.

Judging from some of the responses in this thread, the reason some of us Brits feel aggrieved is because so far this thread has criticised our judicial system (one of the most respected legal systems in the world), our education system and several other generalised criticisms on the British way of life, all over one poxy court case that in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing .  I can imagine the response if we all started stereotyping all of the US posters and basically saying everything about their country is crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by protaginets 

As a moderator, you think this post is ok?

Yes, he does.  TS is, without doubt, the most arrogant moderator I know of on any forum.  How he continues to get away with it is beyond me.  The sad thing is he often has very valid points to make, but they get lost in his rhetoric and sweeping generalisations.

With regards to the thread subject, I thought the original ruling was harsh but I think most neutral people felt Apple overstepped the mark with their response.  

Ah, I see.  Yes, if your presumption is that Apple shouldn't have expected this reaction then the beer is a better analogy.  I disagree with the premise though, so I'll stick with the pickles 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/153785/apples-uk-site-says-samsung-devices-not-as-cool-in-compliance-with-court-ruling/40#post_2220292

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/153785/apples-uk-site-says-samsung-devices-not-as-cool-in-compliance-with-court-ruling/80#post_2220367

Anyone who read thru the previous article concerning Apple's compliance with the order and followed my links to the Appeals Court order itself explaining it shouldn't be shocked that Apple got the court's attention again. I explained my view for a possible reason for Apple to get an additional court sanction several days back. In hindsight it's pretty well dead-on.

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"I thought it a bit silly myself when it was first ordered. But now with Apple's latest response to the judge's order it does seem to serve a purpose. Apple continues to assert that Samsung is infringing on this design patent even after the EU wide legal judgement that they do not, and apparently the UK judge may have anticipated Apple's continued claims contrary to the ruling.

...they can't get much closer than "in a case tried in Germany regarding the same patent, the court found that Samsung engaged in unfair competition by copying the iPad design. A U.S. jury also found Samsung guilty of infringing on Apple's design and utility patents, awarding over one billion U.S. dollars in damages to Apple Inc. So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad."

BTW, my guess as to the Judge Birss' reasons for making such an order in the first place is apparently dead on correct. See points 44 and 45 from the judges order.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html

"If you read item 51 in the judge's ruling on Apple's appeal, it speaks to the very same issue that Apple is again repeating in their court-ordered notice.

"In my judgment, Apple are carefully trying to say something which contains an innuendo that Samsung infringe without actually saying it. The reference to copying is exactly that. It is clear that copying plays no part in this case for Registered Community Design infringement, but to many people outside the circles of intellectual property law to say something infringes a Registered Community Design and to say someone copied your design or your product is to say the same thing."

...Which is why the order to publish was upheld on appeal. Yet Apple again makes the same claims that led to the order in the first place. When this thread first started this morning I disagreed that Apple was in any danger of any further court sansctions on the matter. Now, after reading the reasons behind the order in the first place, I'm not as certain.

For those wondering why the order was made to begin with, but lacking the patience to read the entire document to know why, just read items 43 thru 58. It will take less than three minutes."

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Originally Posted by RichL 

 

As I've already stated, there's very clear pre-existing rules on the printing (electronically or otherwise) of apologies like this one. Apple's lawyers would have been aware of these rules before the statement was posted on Apple's website.

You keep saying this.

Why don't you tell us what the fracking rules are, if they're so obvious to you?

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Originally Posted by Splash-reverse 

 

I do agree. I have lost faith of the judges (but not the whole judiciary system) and the politic. I, and I believe most people here, don't trust them as much as it used to be. Mind you with the younger population nowadays more concern with binge drinking and popularity, the whole nation is going down. And the French, the German just grin with satisfaction from a distance.I don't know what purpose this whole readjustment serves other than to the satisfaction of the judges and Samsung, and I don't believe general public would care much. The first version is OK enough with all the press coverage. This is just a waste of time and public money. OTH, maybe Apple just need to do it but this time with a 36-size font in Comic Sans. There, lick it.

Man your English is crap - maybe people have got a point about our education system!

This whole thing is simply about Apple yanking the UK judges' chain. I love it.

Apple will (and should) do what these silly people are asking -- in their own way....

Coming form someone who thinks the US legal system has become a joke: The British system appears to be laughably worse, by comparison. Even Monty Python couldn't have thunk this up.

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Originally Posted by saarek 

As far as I am aware the UK is Apple's most profitable market outside of the US.

Cite? Evidence?

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Originally Posted by Neo42 

 

Obviously Apple stepped over a line.  They had to have known they were going to piss off the judge.  Don't understand why you always think Apple can do w/etf they want?  Get a clue.

This is the kind of bad press Apple doesnt need, especially in Europe where they are not doing well at all. They should comply ASAP and let that thing died.

In fact, Apple has a chance to gain market share in EU with Google getting slam by France over Tax and ad revenu of the french press. All Apple has to do is play nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley 

Ah, I see.  Yes, if your presumption is that Apple shouldn't have expected this reaction then the beer is a better analogy.  I disagree with the premise though, so I'll stick with the pickles 

meh, you might be right. Maybe someone did stick a pickle in the judge's ass. Actually seem quite likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anantksundaram 

This whole thing is simply about Apple yanking the UK judges' chain. I love it.

 

Apple will (and should) do what these silly people are asking -- in their own way....

 

Coming form someone who thinks the US legal system has become a joke: The British system appears to be laughably worse, by comparison. Even Monty Python couldn't have thunk this up.

Doing it "their own way" is what got them into this mess in the first place.  How about doing the "right way" instead?

Also, looks like they have 48 hours to comply, unless Tim Cook gets involved.  From the BBC:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo42 

 

Obviously Apple stepped over a line.  They had to have known they were going to piss off the judge.  Don't understand why you always think Apple can do w/etf they want?  Get a clue.

Grow up. Apple's just having some fun with these silly wankers.