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Apple paid 2% in taxes on $36.8B of foreign revenue for fiscal 2012 - Page 2

post #41 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

a) That's still someone else's money.
b) They'll eventually run out of that too.

All I'm saying that it's not exclusive to socialist governments.
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post #42 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


All I'm saying that it's not exclusive to socialist governments.

 

First: Re-read the signature. Carefully and slowly this time.

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post #43 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Then why would you give that money to the State for goodness sake?!?!

Because the state provides the majority of education, law enforcement and healthcare in most civilised countries?

I think it's pretty shameful that large corporations do everything they can to avoid paying tax and then complain that they can't find educated staff. Maybe there's a link between the two?
Quote:
Good for you. We all should have that attitude. That doesn't have anything to do with paying taxes though.

Yes, it does.

It helps that there's a correlation between tax and happiness, and not in the direction that you'd think.
post #44 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Because the state provides the majority of education, law enforcement and healthcare in most civilised countries?

 

I assume that you presume a) that's the only way to get those things, and b) that the State does theme best.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Yes, it does.

 

If you say so.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

It helps that there's a correlation between tax and happiness, and not in the direction that you'd think.

 

Yeah. I'll bet the correlation isn't what you think though.

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post #45 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wonder who will claim Apple didn't pay what was legally required of them.

I think this makes Apple a 47%-er, doesn't it???

 

 

 

(There, that makes 300. Nice and round. And I'm done)

post #46 of 171

Good effort, but I'd really like to see that number at 0%. I'm serious.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #47 of 171

As compared to GE who got a huge check BACK. 3.2 BILLION back.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all

 

"The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion."

 

APPLE needs better accountants!

post #48 of 171
Mj1970: your posts are hilarious! You do know that you have to do more to win an argument than post emoticons of sad faces and endless rhetorical questions in bullet point form, right?
post #49 of 171

You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans. 

post #50 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon View Post

 

There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.

 

The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.

 

Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.

 

That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.

 

That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.


The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.

I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.

If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.

Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically

post #51 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?

 

Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.

 

We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.

 

There are loopholes and entire departments in major companies dedicated into finding said loopholes to minimize the tax burden of each corporation.

 

I have friends who work in the tax department of Xerox, GE, Proctor and Gamble who do nothing but scour thousands upon thousands of pages of legal tax code to find and utilize those loopholes. Their  compliance department only consists of 10% of their entire tax staff with the rest going to "tax planning", a legal practice where they try to pay the least amount of tax as possible. The majority of the Fortune 500 companies pay less than maximum 35% of the corporate tax. Sometimes, companies specifically report a loss on their financials to gain a deferred tax savings in the future.

 

Dont bet on the tax code changing anytime soon for the lobbyists has Capital Hill by its throat.

 

Tax holidays were previously introduced in the US tax system, however, according to academia, the economic impact on the economy was negligent.

 

Apple's cash is only going to be in the books and perhaps never be repatriated back to the US.


Edited by Galbi - 11/5/12 at 3:57pm

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #52 of 171

I'm so tired of people bitching about who's not paying some made up "pie-in-the-sky" percentage of taxes that they deem appropriate based on no empirical data.  I'm guessing most (US) folks here on this board claim their home mortgages as a tax deduction?  If so, that's a government tax subsidy that NO one is forced to take. Why are you taking that deduction?  How about paying taxes on all of those Internet purchases?  At least in California, you're supposed to claim your Internet purchases and pay the appropriate tax on same.  Is anyone paying that tax?  You married? If so, you're claiming single so you can pay your "fair share", right?  Again, NOT!  Stop pointing fingers at those who are simply using the tax laws to their advantage.  Whether a business or a person, they may be a lot like you!  Unless any of this is illegal, let's move on.
 

post #53 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by philster1919 View Post

Mj1970: your posts are hilarious!

 

Thanks.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philster1919 View Post

You do know that you have to do more to win an argument than post emoticons of sad faces and endless rhetorical questions in bullet point form, right?

 

Yes. But I often have to play down to the audience.

 

What rhetorical questions are you referring to?

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post #54 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans. 

 

You're post is interesting. It's as if you think the US isn't socialist at all. And you also appear to believe that people are better off under socialism. Odd. Better off in what way(s) precisely?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #55 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

Yes, the US has the highest corporate tax rates in the world, but theres enough loopholes so that companies like GE essentially pay nothing.

 

I believe GE's effective rate is about 12%..  far from "nothing". 

post #56 of 171

Just from reading some of the posts it looks like as Apple's profits grow, everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But why they even had to pay 2.5% on FOREIGN profits is puzzling. If they paid taxes on the money in the country they sold the device in then it should be free and clear to the investor, you know, so they can pay another tax on Capital Gains. I really don't know how people get so worked up over this, their sense of entitlement must be overwhelming. The US Treasury gets plenty of money from Apple but it's never enough for an ever expanding govenment.

post #57 of 171
It's stupid to have corporations paying taxes. Corporations are pieces of paper. People pay taxes. Incomes taxes, taxes on investments, sales taxes, etc.

Tax on profits should be eliminated ... businesses can either make additional profits which in turn are passed to shareholders, or spend it on capital or more employees.
post #58 of 171
We can't bitch about this. Apple is just being smart about it, even though they can afford to do what they're doing. We can only be mad at the government, who spends our taxes on many undisclosed projects. Try to get details on what they actually use our money for, and see how far you get.

Regardless %u2013 thanks, news, for rubbing it in our face.
post #59 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans. 

Um, have YOU ever been to a socialist country? Not just at the tourist spots, the real, everyday life part of the country?

post #60 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebudda View Post

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.

 

Well, the tax rate and what one actually pays are two totally different things.

 

For example, GE had an effective tax rate in 2010 of 7%.  I may be bad at math, but I'm fairly certain that that is lower that the 35% technical rate.

 

Anyhow, this is not to say anything bad about Apple, or about this tax situation.  They should pay the least they can.  That's the way it's set up.  I just wanted to point out that having a nominal corporate rate of 35% doesn't mean that most, possibly any, corporations are actually paying 35%.

post #61 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post

It's stupid to have corporations paying taxes. Corporations are pieces of paper. People pay taxes. Incomes taxes, taxes on investments, sales taxes, etc.
Tax on profits should be eliminated ... businesses can either make additional profits which in turn are passed to shareholders, or spend it on capital or more employees.

People run corporations you know, and that sounds very much like the trickle down effect which never works.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #62 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

Um, have YOU ever been to a socialist country? Not just at the tourist spots, the real, everyday life part of the country?

 

I live in the UK. I grew up under 13 years of socialist government, and the present government isn't dramatically different. It always surprises me when Americans portray socialist states as places where nobody takes responsibility for their own actions and the 'entitlement culture' is driving the state to ruin. 

 

Truth is, it's not unequivocally positive or negative. It has good sides and bad sides. Yes, there are too many people dependent on the state, but there also isn't too many people living in trailer parks or seeing their unemployment benefits cut off because they haven't been able to find a job for a long time. Yes, hospital waiting lists are too long and the NHS has its flaws, but we don't have people not getting treatment because they couldn't afford health insurance, or going to the emergency room and coming out with a huge bill. Yes, our culture is not as business-friendly as it should be, but at least we don't have someone with no political experience within a whisker of a Senate seat, purely because they happen to have $100m in the bank.

 

Swings and roundabouts, my friends. Many of the countries with the world's highest quality of life (e.g. Scandinavia) are strongly socialist.

post #63 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

While I wouldn't call it a "scam," you are basically right. The more you tax profits, the less profit there will be. The profit will be made to "disappear" in any number of ways. You've listed a few ways that happens.

 

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

1rolleyes.gif

 

Apple should pay its taxes in the U.S. because it's incorporated here. Apple takes advantage of our roads, our courts. The majority of its employees are educated here. It is traded on NASDAQ. Apple enjoys access to the U.S. power grid, and to all the other infrastructure this country has built. Apple enjoys the protections of our military, and the security of our financial system.

 

If Apple wants to enjoy all these benefits, it should contribute taxes to pay for them.

 

Wozniak and Jobs didn't build the Apple II in North Korea, or in Germany, but right here. The businesses they worked for (Atari and HP) gave them access to the technology they needed. Woz' father worked at Lockheed, and taught him electrical engineering. There wouldn't be an Apple had they grown up anywhere but Silicon Valley.

 

These events occurred here, not in some foreign country. Could they have happened somewhere else? I suppose it's possible, but it's no coincidence that Apple, Microsoft, and Google were all started in America.

 

We Americans stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us, and so we should pay taxes for the privilege of being here.

post #64 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Right_said_fred View Post

I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.

If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.

Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically

 

Wait, are you suggesting that when Apple invests domestically it pays taxes at 35%? I assume any gains are taxed at the capital gains rate, which brings them down from 35% to somewhere in the twenties.

post #65 of 171
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/11/04/is-apples-foreign-tax-rate-really-below-2/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710

UK tax authority:
"Non-resident trading companies which do not have a branch in the UK, but have UK customers, will therefore pay tax on the profits arising from those customers in the country where the company is resident, according to the tax law in that country. The profits will not be taxed in the UK. This is not tax avoidance: it is simply the way that corporation tax works. [lol emoticon]

Most major economies operate corporation tax in the same way as the UK, so UK-resident companies are treated in a similar way in other countries. In other words, UK companies do not pay corporation tax to another country on the profits from sales in that country, unless they trade through a branch based there. Instead, they pay corporation tax in the UK"

By basing foreign subsidiaries in tax havens, companies only pay corporation tax rates of the tax havens. They are all doing this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220907/eBay-avoids-50m-corporation-tax-channelling-payments-Luxembourg.html

Apple pays some tax in the form of sales tax and employee tax but this is not really paid by Apple, it's paid by customers and employees. The tax in question is the tax on their profits.

- UK customer A earns a salary, they get paid and a chunk is taken in National Insurance and Income Tax (~20% for average UK workers).
- customer A walks into an Apple Store and buys an iPhone. 20% is paid in Sales Tax by the customer.
- customer A is served by Apple employee B who pays Income Tax and National Insurance (~20%).
- Apple deducts costs of making the products from the sale and what they are left with is profit on which corporation tax is due (24%, not 2%).

Through Apple's avoidance of corporation tax, the weight of services paid for by the government such as the fire service if an Apple Store goes on fire, the police if an Apple Store is broken into, the health service if an employee is taken ill - the weight of that expense is taken by customers and employees. This redistributes wealth from the poor to the wealthy.

Apple has bases in Ireland and Luxembourg for this. As far as US income tax on these foreign profits, Apple states themselves in the 10-K p61:

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/1700096589x0x610219/112dd7d2-e33a-44ad-b4ea-8870c5dd9281/AAPL_10K_FY12_10.31.12.pdf

"The Company’s consolidated financial statements provide for any related tax liability on amounts that may be repatriated, aside from undistributed earnings of certain of the Company’s foreign subsidiaries that are intended to be indefinitely reinvested in operations outside the U.S. As of September 29, 2012, U.S. income taxes have not been provided on a cumulative total of $40.4 billion of such earnings. The amount of unrecognized deferred tax liability related to these temporary differences is estimated to be approximately $13.8 billion.

As of September 29, 2012 and September 24, 2011, $82.6 billion and $54.3 billion, respectively, of the Company’s cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities were held by foreign subsidiaries and are generally based in U.S. dollar-denominated holdings. Amounts held by foreign subsidiaries are generally subject to U.S. income taxation on repatriation to the U.S."

So they don't pay tax until they repatriate the money, which they won't until they get a tax break. They avoid foreign tax through havens and US tax by avoiding repatriation.

There will always be a conflict between business and government because businesses earn through work and have to compete for success whereas government takes some of it without competition or accountability and spends without the consent of those who earned it. It is a necessary conflict however because there are services government provides that cannot be held to the rules of business simply because their profitability is in direct conflict with their service. It is necessary for businesses to pay the appropriate tax because it is necessary for their employees and customers to pay it.

I think the most certain way of fixing this is by taxing based on the shipping address (point of supply) and not the tax haven address (point of sale). The repatriation tax will still need to exist because otherwise legitimate companies selling exlusively overeas would pay no local corporation tax but it should be very low because it's only needed to cover the government services provided to aid the base of operations (the tax can also be linked to local job creation).

This is easy to enforce on physical goods through customs. Digital goods are not so easy as some digital sales won't have an address recorded for the point of supply but they can be based on the point of sale where no address is recorded - most major retailers have records of cardholders or operate location-specific online stores.
post #66 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post

It's stupid to have corporations paying taxes. Corporations are pieces of paper. People pay taxes. Incomes taxes, taxes on investments, sales taxes, etc.
Tax on profits should be eliminated ... businesses can either make additional profits which in turn are passed to shareholders, or spend it on capital or more employees.

 

Corporations are legal persons. They have their own tax returns. They can file lawsuits and negotiate contracts. As separate entities (which can live forever, while their human shareholders can't), they should pay all the same taxes a human being pays. I'll go even further: when a corporation engages in conduct which would get a human executed, the corporation should be eliminated, and its officers jailed.

 

Why should taxes on profits be eliminated? If you're any good at business you'll find many, many ways to minimize your tax burden, and that's true even for a small business. What is the average effective tax rate for corporations right now? Isn't it around 7%?

 

Corporations use our infrastructure, and our legal system, and are kept safe by our military and markets. They didn't build that. They should have to pay for the infrastructure they use, hence the taxes they pay.

post #67 of 171
Brilliant. This makes it possible for Apple to do what it does.

Nothing illegal either.

Applause.
post #68 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon View Post

Apple should pay its taxes in the U.S. because it's incorporated here. Apple takes advantage of our roads, our courts. The majority of its employees are educated here. It is traded on NASDAQ. Apple enjoys access to the U.S. power grid, and to all the other infrastructure this country has built. Apple enjoys the protections of our military, and the security of our financial system.

 

If Apple wants to enjoy all these benefits, it should contribute taxes to pay for them.

 

You're implying that Apple doesn't pay any taxes here to pay for any of those things. You are also implying that they don't use those things in other countries and therefore don't need to pay taxes there. Neither is true.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon View Post

We Americans stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us, and so we should pay taxes for the privilege of being here.

 

 1rolleyes.gif I weep for the future of this country.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #69 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon View Post

Corporations are legal persons. They have their own tax returns. They can file lawsuits and negotiate contracts. As separate entities (which can live forever, while their human shareholders can't), they should pay all the same taxes a human being pays. I'll go even further: when a corporation engages in conduct which would get a human executed, the corporation should be eliminated, and its officers jailed.

 

Why should taxes on profits be eliminated? If you're any good at business you'll find many, many ways to minimize your tax burden, and that's true even for a small business. What is the average effective tax rate for corporations right now? Isn't it around 7%?

 

You don't get it...corporations don't pay taxes. Apple does not pay one dollar in taxes. Think carefully about what I just said and it will make sense.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon View Post

Corporations use our infrastructure, and our legal system, and are kept safe by our military and markets. They didn't build that. They should have to pay for the infrastructure they use, hence the taxes they pay.

 

Yes they did build that. Who do you think did build that? The taxes paid through them have paid for those things. Stop repeating moronic shit from a moron (Obama.)

 

 

Finally, you're assuming that any or all of that needs to be provided by the State. False.


Edited by MJ1970 - 11/5/12 at 6:29pm

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post #70 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You don't get it...corporations don't pay taxes. Apple does not pay one dollar in taxes. Think carefully about what I just said and it will make sense.



Yes they did build that. Who do you think did build that? The taxes paid through them have paid for those things. Stop repeating moronic shit from a moron (Obama.)


Finally, you're assuming that any or all of that needs to be provided by the State. False.

A state doesn't have to build infrastructure but it behooves them to. Barren land without roads is much more useful when filled with citizens paying property tax, sales tax and income tax. Build it and the tax payers will come.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #71 of 171

Taxes are the lowest in 60 years.  Corporate taxes seem high but no one pays any so it's meaningless.  Didn't you just read the article?  Apple paid less than you and I.  Way less.

post #72 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

A state doesn't have to build infrastructure but it behooves them to. Barren land without roads is much more useful when filled with citizens paying property tax, sales tax and income tax. Build it and the tax payers will come.

 

You're missing the point. You are assuming that these things cannot or would not be built without money extraction at the point of a gun (taxes). This is not true. Bottom line, almos tall of it could be privatized. Most people using this argument for taxes are basically begging the question.

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post #73 of 171

I'd say at least as much as you and I seems fair.  Why don't you agree?  You thin on those billions in profits they should pay less?

post #74 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

I'd say at least as much as you and I seems fair.  Why don't you agree?  You thin on those billions in profits they should pay less?

 

I'd be fine if they paid none. I also think think the personal income tax should be eliminated but that's a discussion for another time.

 

I don't agree with you because taxes on corporate profits are two things: 1) taxes on that corporation's customers. The corporation doesn't pay taxes. And taxing away money that would otherwise be invested for future production.

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post #75 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

You're implying that Apple doesn't pay any taxes here to pay for any of those things. You are also implying that they don't use those things in other countries and therefore don't need to pay taxes there. Neither is true.

 

 

Blah. Another one of you. 1rolleyes.gif I weep for the future of this country. Fucking sheep.

 

 

Pretty sure the sheep are the ones thinking business and the 'free market' will regulate itself and keep everything in check.  What 'Freedoms' do you think you'll have when the rich own your government and own you?

post #76 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Pretty sure the sheep are the ones thinking business and the 'free market' will regulate itself and keep everything in check.

 

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

What 'Freedoms' do you think you'll have when the rich own your government and own you?

 

What the **** do you think is happening right now?!

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post #77 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I'd be fine if they paid none. I also think think the personal income tax should be eliminated but that's a discussion for another time.

 

I don't agree with you because taxes on corporate profits are two things: 1) taxes on that corporation's customers. The corporation doesn't pay taxes. And taxing away money that would otherwise be invested for future production.

 

 

Well if we have to pay tax, then do the F should they.  If you want to say no taxes for anyone that's another story I agree.  But they should pay AT LEAST as much as everyone else.

 

1)  Why do you think taxes on a corporation's profits are taxes on their customers?  You mean because the corporation just extends those 'costs' to their customers?  2) Screw the future investment for that company.  They have billions in profits, that's up the them to figure out.  Hows' about the future investment for me , my neighbors, my fellow Americans, and the country itself?  

post #78 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Well if we have to pay tax, then do the F should they.  If you want to say no taxes for anyone that's another story I agree.  But they should pay AT LEAST as much as everyone else.

 

You don't get it. Pay attention: They don't pay taxes. It doesn't matter what it looks like, they are not paying the taxes. Period. The customers (that's you and me) are paying those taxes. Raise taxes on corporations, you raise taxes on customers.

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post #79 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

1)  Why do you think taxes on a corporation's profits are taxes on their customers?  You mean because the corporation just extends those 'costs' to their customers?

 

Yes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

2) Screw the future investment for that company.  They have billions in profits, that's up the them to figure out.

 

Brilliant.

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post #80 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstark View Post

Brilliant. This makes it possible for Apple to do what it does.
Nothing illegal either.
Applause.

 

 

Oh yes genius.  We should all applaud not paying taxes.  Personally I feel good investing in my country.  

 

The only reason it's not illegal is because the rich have bought their way into our government to make it legal.

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AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple paid 2% in taxes on $36.8B of foreign revenue for fiscal 2012