All I'm saying that it's not exclusive to socialist governments.
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
I assume that you presume a) that's the only way to get those things, and b) that the State does theme best.
If you say so.

Yeah. I'll bet the correlation isn't what you think though.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
I think this makes Apple a 47%-er, doesn't it???
(There, that makes 300. Nice and round. And I'm done)
AI, "where you sometimes find that you never know what you least expect, most often..."
AI, "where you sometimes find that you never know what you least expect, most often..."
As compared to GE who got a huge check BACK. 3.2 BILLION back.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all
"The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.
Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion."
APPLE needs better accountants!

There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.
That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.
If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.
Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically

This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?
Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
There are loopholes and entire departments in major companies dedicated into finding said loopholes to minimize the tax burden of each corporation.
I have friends who work in the tax department of Xerox, GE, Proctor and Gamble who do nothing but scour thousands upon thousands of pages of legal tax code to find and utilize those loopholes. Their compliance department only consists of 10% of their entire tax staff with the rest going to "tax planning", a legal practice where they try to pay the least amount of tax as possible. The majority of the Fortune 500 companies pay less than maximum 35% of the corporate tax. Sometimes, companies specifically report a loss on their financials to gain a deferred tax savings in the future.
Dont bet on the tax code changing anytime soon for the lobbyists has Capital Hill by its throat.
Tax holidays were previously introduced in the US tax system, however, according to academia, the economic impact on the economy was negligent.
Apple's cash is only going to be in the books and perhaps never be repatriated back to the US.
"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400." - 11/21/12 by Galbi
"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400." - 11/21/12 by Galbi
I'm so tired of people bitching about who's not paying some made up "pie-in-the-sky" percentage of taxes that they deem appropriate based on no empirical data. I'm guessing most (US) folks here on this board claim their home mortgages as a tax deduction? If so, that's a government tax subsidy that NO one is forced to take. Why are you taking that deduction? How about paying taxes on all of those Internet purchases? At least in California, you're supposed to claim your Internet purchases and pay the appropriate tax on same. Is anyone paying that tax? You married? If so, you're claiming single so you can pay your "fair share", right? Again, NOT! Stop pointing fingers at those who are simply using the tax laws to their advantage. Whether a business or a person, they may be a lot like you! Unless any of this is illegal, let's move on.
Thanks.
Yes. But I often have to play down to the audience.
What rhetorical questions are you referring to?
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
You're post is interesting. It's as if you think the US isn't socialist at all. And you also appear to believe that people are better off under socialism. Odd. Better off in what way(s) precisely?
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
Just from reading some of the posts it looks like as Apple's profits grow, everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But why they even had to pay 2.5% on FOREIGN profits is puzzling. If they paid taxes on the money in the country they sold the device in then it should be free and clear to the investor, you know, so they can pay another tax on Capital Gains. I really don't know how people get so worked up over this, their sense of entitlement must be overwhelming. The US Treasury gets plenty of money from Apple but it's never enough for an ever expanding govenment.

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.
Well, the tax rate and what one actually pays are two totally different things.
For example, GE had an effective tax rate in 2010 of 7%. I may be bad at math, but I'm fairly certain that that is lower that the 35% technical rate.
Anyhow, this is not to say anything bad about Apple, or about this tax situation. They should pay the least they can. That's the way it's set up. I just wanted to point out that having a nominal corporate rate of 35% doesn't mean that most, possibly any, corporations are actually paying 35%.

I live in the UK. I grew up under 13 years of socialist government, and the present government isn't dramatically different. It always surprises me when Americans portray socialist states as places where nobody takes responsibility for their own actions and the 'entitlement culture' is driving the state to ruin.
Truth is, it's not unequivocally positive or negative. It has good sides and bad sides. Yes, there are too many people dependent on the state, but there also isn't too many people living in trailer parks or seeing their unemployment benefits cut off because they haven't been able to find a job for a long time. Yes, hospital waiting lists are too long and the NHS has its flaws, but we don't have people not getting treatment because they couldn't afford health insurance, or going to the emergency room and coming out with a huge bill. Yes, our culture is not as business-friendly as it should be, but at least we don't have someone with no political experience within a whisker of a Senate seat, purely because they happen to have $100m in the bank.
Swings and roundabouts, my friends. Many of the countries with the world's highest quality of life (e.g. Scandinavia) are strongly socialist.
Apple should pay its taxes in the U.S. because it's incorporated here. Apple takes advantage of our roads, our courts. The majority of its employees are educated here. It is traded on NASDAQ. Apple enjoys access to the U.S. power grid, and to all the other infrastructure this country has built. Apple enjoys the protections of our military, and the security of our financial system.
If Apple wants to enjoy all these benefits, it should contribute taxes to pay for them.
Wozniak and Jobs didn't build the Apple II in North Korea, or in Germany, but right here. The businesses they worked for (Atari and HP) gave them access to the technology they needed. Woz' father worked at Lockheed, and taught him electrical engineering. There wouldn't be an Apple had they grown up anywhere but Silicon Valley.
These events occurred here, not in some foreign country. Could they have happened somewhere else? I suppose it's possible, but it's no coincidence that Apple, Microsoft, and Google were all started in America.
We Americans stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us, and so we should pay taxes for the privilege of being here.

I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.
If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.
Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically
Wait, are you suggesting that when Apple invests domestically it pays taxes at 35%? I assume any gains are taxed at the capital gains rate, which brings them down from 35% to somewhere in the twenties.

Corporations are legal persons. They have their own tax returns. They can file lawsuits and negotiate contracts. As separate entities (which can live forever, while their human shareholders can't), they should pay all the same taxes a human being pays. I'll go even further: when a corporation engages in conduct which would get a human executed, the corporation should be eliminated, and its officers jailed.
Why should taxes on profits be eliminated? If you're any good at business you'll find many, many ways to minimize your tax burden, and that's true even for a small business. What is the average effective tax rate for corporations right now? Isn't it around 7%?
Corporations use our infrastructure, and our legal system, and are kept safe by our military and markets. They didn't build that. They should have to pay for the infrastructure they use, hence the taxes they pay.

Apple should pay its taxes in the U.S. because it's incorporated here. Apple takes advantage of our roads, our courts. The majority of its employees are educated here. It is traded on NASDAQ. Apple enjoys access to the U.S. power grid, and to all the other infrastructure this country has built. Apple enjoys the protections of our military, and the security of our financial system.
If Apple wants to enjoy all these benefits, it should contribute taxes to pay for them.
You're implying that Apple doesn't pay any taxes here to pay for any of those things. You are also implying that they don't use those things in other countries and therefore don't need to pay taxes there. Neither is true.
I weep for the future of this country.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Corporations are legal persons. They have their own tax returns. They can file lawsuits and negotiate contracts. As separate entities (which can live forever, while their human shareholders can't), they should pay all the same taxes a human being pays. I'll go even further: when a corporation engages in conduct which would get a human executed, the corporation should be eliminated, and its officers jailed.
Why should taxes on profits be eliminated? If you're any good at business you'll find many, many ways to minimize your tax burden, and that's true even for a small business. What is the average effective tax rate for corporations right now? Isn't it around 7%?
You don't get it...corporations don't pay taxes. Apple does not pay one dollar in taxes. Think carefully about what I just said and it will make sense.
Yes they did build that. Who do you think did build that? The taxes paid through them have paid for those things. Stop repeating moronic shit from a moron (Obama.)
Finally, you're assuming that any or all of that needs to be provided by the State. False.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

You're missing the point. You are assuming that these things cannot or would not be built without money extraction at the point of a gun (taxes). This is not true. Bottom line, almos tall of it could be privatized. Most people using this argument for taxes are basically begging the question.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
I'd be fine if they paid none. I also think think the personal income tax should be eliminated but that's a discussion for another time.
I don't agree with you because taxes on corporate profits are two things: 1) taxes on that corporation's customers. The corporation doesn't pay taxes. And taxing away money that would otherwise be invested for future production.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

You're implying that Apple doesn't pay any taxes here to pay for any of those things. You are also implying that they don't use those things in other countries and therefore don't need to pay taxes there. Neither is true.
Blah. Another one of you.
I weep for the future of this country. Fucking sheep.
Pretty sure the sheep are the ones thinking business and the 'free market' will regulate itself and keep everything in check. What 'Freedoms' do you think you'll have when the rich own your government and own you?
And I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
What the **** do you think is happening right now?!
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

I'd be fine if they paid none. I also think think the personal income tax should be eliminated but that's a discussion for another time.
I don't agree with you because taxes on corporate profits are two things: 1) taxes on that corporation's customers. The corporation doesn't pay taxes. And taxing away money that would otherwise be invested for future production.
Well if we have to pay tax, then do the F should they. If you want to say no taxes for anyone that's another story I agree. But they should pay AT LEAST as much as everyone else.
1) Why do you think taxes on a corporation's profits are taxes on their customers? You mean because the corporation just extends those 'costs' to their customers? 2) Screw the future investment for that company. They have billions in profits, that's up the them to figure out. Hows' about the future investment for me , my neighbors, my fellow Americans, and the country itself?
You don't get it. Pay attention: They don't pay taxes. It doesn't matter what it looks like, they are not paying the taxes. Period. The customers (that's you and me) are paying those taxes. Raise taxes on corporations, you raise taxes on customers.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
Yes.
Brilliant.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.
Oh yes genius. We should all applaud not paying taxes. Personally I feel good investing in my country.
The only reason it's not illegal is because the rich have bought their way into our government to make it legal.