or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Review: Apple's iPad mini
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Review: Apple's iPad mini - Page 2  

post #41 of 90

Out of all the criticisms, my biggest complaint is that the 32 GB should be more like $70 more than the 16GB.  Anything more is a ripoff....this coming from an Apple Fan/shareholder.  It's a small thing, but when you think about it, the most desired size is 32GB, Apple knows this and is willing to piss off customers just to make a few extra dollars.

 

64GB at $100 more than the 32GB is acceptable.

post #42 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

The iPad mini is essentially a large iPod Touch running iPad software, and will replace it as early as next Summer.
Prediction:
Apple will continue offering the current 5th gen. iPod Touch for $200 after the next iDevice product cycle upgrade until it sells out. Then it will be dead. Long live the Touch.
The iPad mini will drop to $300 with only a processor upgrade, filling the void left by the Touch. After the Touch is discontinued, the mini 2 will drop to the $200 price point after the next refresh and the 3rd gen retina mini assumes the $300 price point.
The iPad 2 will be replaced by the current iPad (4) at $400 as the new iPad (5) takes the top spot.
The iPhone will be the last device left running the small screen version of iOS, and why shouldn't it be? If people really are clamoring for a more mobile iPad, then the Touch will be redundant. At least until the mini is able to make phone calls, the iPhone is safe. However, I wouldn't rule out people buying an LTE mini and using it with VOIP apps as a traditional cell phone replacement. Maybe we have it backwards and they will keep their full-sized iPads and get rid of their iPhone instead!
Product snapshot circa Summer 2014:
IPod Suffle (6) -- $50
IPod Nano (9) -- $100
IPad mini (2) -- $200
iPad mini retina -- $300
iPad (5) -- $400
iPad (6) -- $500
iPhone (8) -- $600 (unlocked)

 

Totally wrong and still in dreamworld that thought the Mini would be $250 to start with.

 

18 months to 24 months from now and you will likely see this:

 

iPod Touch (16:9) 16 GB $199

iPad Mini 16GB $299

iPad Mini Retina 16GB $399

iPad Retina Full size 16GB $499

 

Perfect $100 increments from pocket size regular to full size Retina.

 

iPad 2 will be retired (soon) and they won't keep old models of the full size iPad in the lineup. They only reason the IPad 2 dragged on was to supply a cheaper non-retina model, which won't matter anymore with the above lineup.

post #43 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

 

Totally wrong and still in dreamworld that thought the Mini would be $250 to start with.

 

18 months to 24 months from now and you will likely see this:

 

iPod Touch (16:9) 16 GB $199

iPad Mini 16GB $299

iPad Mini Retina 16GB $399

iPad Retina Full size 16GB $499

 

Perfect $100 increments from pocket size regular to full size Retina.

 

iPad 2 will be retired (soon) and they won't keep old models of the full size iPad in the lineup. They only reason the IPad 2 dragged on was to supply a cheaper non-retina model, which won't matter anymore with the above lineup.

 

I don't see them adding Retina to the iPad mini until it will fit in with the current cost structure.  Also, since they now have multiple models filling all price points, I don't see them continuing with also selling last year's models of each product either.  

 

For that reason I think it really unlikely that you will see the mini broken out into "regular" and "Retina" types next year.  It's far more likely that the mini will quickly move to Retina displays so the entire line is Retina.  They will offer them at the same price point and only drop prices (if ever) after that.  

 

Next year's iPad lineup seems more likely to be exactly the same as this year's in terms of price and size offerings with the exception of the iPad 2 being dropped entirely.   

post #44 of 90
I just saw the iPad mini for the first time today at the Apple store in San Francisco. Absolutely gorgeous piece of engineering. It was interesting lookng at the crowd. The iPad4 table was sparse but the iPad mini had all the action. Was quite intrigued by it.

Apple is going to sell truckloads of these. I really wanted to see what the big deal was with the screens. It's not a retina, but it is still far better than the iPad2. The text was sharper and smoother due to the higher PPI. I had zero problem with the text.

Ignore the whining from the iHaters, trolls, and tech-heads that think they know what's best.

If it weren't for me buying the iPad3 a few months ago, I definitely would have the mini as my next tablet. The form factor/weight is just that nice. Put the mini next to any Android garbage out there and you'll immediately see where the money goes.

Android sheep should be ashamed of themselves for spewing downright lies and having laughably low-to-no standards.
Edited by sflocal - 11/6/12 at 12:47pm
post #45 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

Out of all the criticisms, my biggest complaint is that the 32 GB should be more like $70 more than the 16GB.  Anything more is a ripoff....this coming from an Apple Fan/shareholder.  It's a small thing, but when you think about it, the most desired size is 32GB, Apple knows this and is willing to piss off customers just to make a few extra dollars.

64GB at $100 more than the 32GB is acceptable.

I've been banging on this perception of ripoff for memory for a while now. It is not just a matter of the cost of the parts!

Each memory differentiation costs money in parts inventory tracking, logistics and production, and later in inventory and sales.There have to be separate production lines for each memory model, and this is multiplied by the connectivity options and (probably) by colors. Each line requires new factory space and trained shifts of workers. And so on.

Unless you can cost all that out and present us with an analysis you have no business assuming it's a ripoff.
post #46 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

 

Totally wrong and still in dreamworld that thought the Mini would be $250 to start with.

 

18 months to 24 months from now and you will likely see this:

 

iPod Touch (16:9) 16 GB $199

iPad Mini 16GB $299

iPad Mini Retina 16GB $399

iPad Retina Full size 16GB $499

 

Perfect $100 increments from pocket size regular to full size Retina.

 

iPad 2 will be retired (soon) and they won't keep old models of the full size iPad in the lineup. They only reason the IPad 2 dragged on was to supply a cheaper non-retina model, which won't matter anymore with the above lineup.

Agreed.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
For your sake, I hope you're right.
post #47 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I don't see them adding Retina to the iPad mini until it will fit in with the current cost structure.  Also, since they now have multiple models filling all price points, I don't see them continuing with also selling last year's models of each product either.  

 

For that reason I think it really unlikely that you will see the mini broken out into "regular" and "Retina" types next year.  It's far more likely that the mini will quickly move to Retina displays so the entire line is Retina.  They will offer them at the same price point and only drop prices (if ever) after that.  

 

Next year's iPad lineup seems more likely to be exactly the same as this year's in terms of price and size offerings with the exception of the iPad 2 being dropped entirely.   

 

 

While there are no certainties.

 

I think it extremely probable that when the Retina Mini joins the lineup, the regular mini will stay and fall in price. It will always be less expensive to build and it will likely stay as the anchor of the iPad lineup for years to come.

 

Also, the best way the Retina Mini fall in price to meet to current retail is to actually build it even at a higher price, because initially that screen is going to cost a lot and Apple will want to charge a lot to maintain margins. Only real production in large numbers will get it's price down eventually.

 

It all points to a Retina Mini Moving up in price co-existing with regular Mini moving down in price.

 

Though we have to wait at least a year to find out I am right.


Edited by Snowdog65 - 11/6/12 at 12:57pm
post #48 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

Out of all the criticisms, my biggest complaint is that the 32 GB should be more like $70 more than the 16GB.  Anything more is a ripoff....this coming from an Apple Fan/shareholder.  It's a small thing, but when you think about it, the most desired size is 32GB, Apple knows this and is willing to piss off customers just to make a few extra dollars.

 

64GB at $100 more than the 32GB is acceptable.

 

But it is the same "ripoff" that saintly Google charges on the Nexus 10. $399 16GB, $499 32GB.

 

This isn't to rip you off. It is because the bottom end products are somewhat loss leaders, while the upper models beef up the margin.

 

Do you think you would rather pay $50 delta instead. So is this:

 

16GB $349, $32GB $399

 

Better than:

 

16GB $299, $32GB $399

 

Those big jumps in memory margin, help keep the base model at lower price.


Edited by Snowdog65 - 11/6/12 at 12:56pm
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR View Post

There is a problem, the hardware and price. If you are going for premium sell a iPad Mini Retina & with A6 chip. If you will go with non retina and A5(which the A6X makes obsolete) then don't ask 329$ (premium amount compare to the competition). A lot of people will be disappointed with the mini IMHO. Sure next year they will upgraded but it will still be outdated when new top of the line iPad is release...

 

That being said it will sell millions and normal people wont realize its under power until next year.

 

 

Except you are uninformed. According to the recently releases third party benchmarks, the iPad Mini  beats out the just released six months ago iPad 3 in terms of performance. You know the one people were perfectly happy with and weren't expecting to be updated until six months from now? Moreover, unlike the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD (again third party reviews), you  aren't going to experience any performance lag.

 

According to Apple, 48 percent of weekend buyers of the Mini never bought a tablet before. These people aren't going to be unhappy with the lack of a retina display because they never used a tablet with a retina display. Moreover, the iPad Mini's display is better than the iPad 2's display that Apple is still selling a lot of. 

 

Further, people like you claim the iPad is priced at a premium, however, you seem to think the lighter weight, better materials and build quality, the extra and improved camera, superior customer services, dedicated apps, insured to be upgradable to iOS 7, and better resale value is not worth a measly $140 more. Strange really. 

post #50 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtoxin View Post

The issue with the retina display NOT being on the mini is the fact that we all know apple well enough that in a year or two, we will have a mini with retina display and it will be marketed just as the full sized iPad is now. I find this argument about utilizing pixel density in a "special" way invalid. If Apple has perfected the screen for the mini, then we will never see a retina display integrated into this product. I am sorry, but these reviews can make all the excuses for Apple such as the ones stated in this article, but that will just delay the company in putting in the features consumers want.

 

You are arguing from a perspective of what you imagine possible. There are some constraints imposed by reality, at least right now in 2012. No doubt the pace of technology will someday allow (2014?) a Retina Display with an A6X class processor in a light thin mini outline. But today that would cost way too much money. 

 

Nobody else is offering a 2048x1536 display on a 8" tablet. The critics are just looking for patterns and demanding that Apple sell $2000 in hardware at the same price as Android licensee's $200 loss leaders. This argument is what I find "invalid."

 

Apple didn't need web commenters demanding a Retina Display to put one on the iPhone 4 in 2010, and it doesn't need that to do so for the iPad mini when it becomes practical and affordable to do it. There are a lot of more useful and practical technologies the mini could adopt before getting an 8" Retina ++ display. 

 

And think about it for a moment: if iPhone 5 is currently constrained because it's hard to build a 4 inch RD screen in quantity, how would Apple meet demand for a product that requires a perfect screen 4x as large at the same pixel density? It's more expensive to build 300+ppi screens at larger sizes, which is partly why iPads and MacBooks offer 220-265 ppi screens. That's just ~1.5x the density of iPad mini. So you're getting less improvement at a very high cost. 

 

iPad mini is 162 ppi. Retina Display via doubling would require 324 pip. iPhone 5 is a similar 326ppi.

 

The Retina Display iPad, however, is 264 pip, and Retina Display MacBooks are 220-227ppi. 

post #51 of 90
Quote:
The iPad mini is essentially a large iPod Touch running iPad software, and will replace it as early as next Summer.

Prediction:
Apple will continue offering the current 5th gen. iPod Touch for $200 after the next iDevice product cycle upgrade until it sells out. Then it will be dead. Long live the Touch.
The iPad mini will drop to $300 with only a processor upgrade, filling the void left by the Touch. After the Touch is discontinued, the mini 2 will drop to the $200 price point after the next refresh and the 3rd gen retina mini assumes the $300 price point.
The iPad 2 will be replaced by the current iPad (4) at $400 as the new iPad (5) takes the top spot.

The iPhone will be the last device left running the small screen version of iOS, and why shouldn't it be? If people really are clamoring for a more mobile iPad, then the Touch will be redundant. At least until the mini is able to make phone calls, the iPhone is safe. However, I wouldn't rule out people buying an LTE mini and using it with VOIP apps as a traditional cell phone replacement. Maybe we have it backwards and they will keep their full-sized iPads and get rid of their iPhone instead!

Product snapshot circa Summer 2014:

IPod Suffle (6) -- $50
IPod Nano (9) -- $100
IPad mini (2) -- $200
iPad mini retina -- $300
iPad (5) -- $400
iPad (6) -- $500
iPhone (8) -- $600 (unlocked)

 

You are bat shit nuts. The iPod Touch is a completely different product aimed at a completely different market. I'm not going to quote or regurgitate the logical arguments everyone else has posed to you. You're a forum junkie/egomaniac. Your long-winded replies are proof of that. If you feel so strongly about your opinions then contact Apple and apply for a job. Until then you're "just a guy in his living room".

post #52 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by timthepainter View Post

 

You are bat shit nuts. The iPod Touch is a completely different product aimed at a completely different market. I'm not going to quote or regurgitate the logical arguments everyone else has posed to you. You're a forum junkie/egomaniac. Your long-winded replies are proof of that. If you feel so strongly about your opinions then contact Apple and apply for a job. Until then you're "just a guy in his living room".

 

 

LOL. Yes, tell my spin instructor to stick the iPad Mini in her pocket. Further, the Touch is the best selling iPod. Of course, if the iPod Touch stops selling, it is possible the iPod Nano will remain. 

post #53 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


I've been banging on this perception of ripoff for memory for a while now. It is not just a matter of the cost of the parts!
Each memory differentiation costs money in parts inventory tracking, logistics and production, and later in inventory and sales.There have to be separate production lines for each memory model, and this is multiplied by the connectivity options and (probably) by colors. Each line requires new factory space and trained shifts of workers. And so on.
Unless you can cost all that out and present us with an analysis you have no business assuming it's a ripoff.

 

 

Moreover, the 16GB acts as a loss leader. Apple's making a profit on the lower end model, but not likely the normal profit it likes or needs to stay healthy. So the extra hundred bucks is to subsidize the reduced margins for the 16GB. 

post #54 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


Moreover, the 16GB acts as a loss leader. Apple's making a profit on the lower end model, but not likely the normal profit it likes or needs to stay healthy. So the extra hundred bucks is to subsidize the reduced margins for the 16GB. 

Could be. What's certain is that we have no hard figures, so it's perverse to assume and write in a public forum that we're being ripped off. Like, as if the company is your enemy. Yes, they make money off us, but the rewards are that they are putting out great stuff that is well is worth the money. And I don't have the impression that we're being gouged.

The new iPhone, iPod touch and the iPad mini, not to mention the latest iPad, this pace of productivity is what Tim Cook is doing with the company's—our—money. I ain't complaining about anything (except maybe no video camera on the nano).
post #55 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Could be. What's certain is that we have no hard figures, so it's perverse to assume and write in a public forum that we're being ripped off. Like, as if the company is your enemy. Yes, they make money off us, but the rewards are that they are putting out great stuff that is well is worth the money. And I don't have the impression that we're being gouged.
The new iPhone, iPod touch and the iPad mini, not to mention the latest iPad, this pace of productivity is what Tim Cook is doing with the company's—our—money. I ain't complaining about anything (except maybe no video camera on the nano).

Sure, we have to make assumptions but the odds that Apple makes less profit on the 16GB v the 64GB are very high. I certainly wouldn't bet against that. That's what is meant by loss leader here, not that Apple is selling it at a loss of profit, but only that it prices the higher end models to make up for the lower profit at the lower end for an aggregate average profit margin for the category.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

post #56 of 90
Quote:
If you want a cheaper experience, the only option from Apple is the $200, previous generation iPod touch (the latest model is actually $70 more expensive than the entry level iPad mini, albeit packing 32GB of storage.

 

That's innacurate. The latest iPod touch is $30 cheaper than the entry level iPad mini. 

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


LOL. Yes, tell my spin instructor to stick the iPad Mini in her pocket. Further, the Touch is the best selling iPod. Of course, if the iPod Touch stops selling, it is possible the iPod Nano will remain. 
So your spin instructor doesn't have an iPhone? The spin instructor at my gym uses her iPhone. Also, I've never been in a gym with wifi. Frankly, if I wanted an iPod for the gym, I'd pick the Nano, or shuffle.

People keep saying it's the best selling iPod, and its a completely different device than the mini, yet Even Apple has marketed it as a gaming device, citing the top 10 downloads for both the iPhone/Touch and iPad are games. So why is it the best selling iPod, and aside from size, exactly how is the Touch so different from the mini in application? Since the mini is brand new, only time will tell ... But if the primary reason the Touch is the best selling iPod is as a portable gaming device, rather than an MP3 player, the similarly priced mini may well knock the Touch out of that distinction.
post #58 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

It's as usable as your iPad 2, which means very usable. It might have the occasional lag and apps don't open as fast, etc, but it's still very much sufficient for what's out there right now.

 

Everyone is focused on retina displays because everyone has been spoiled the last few years with them. If you use a retina display of any sort for long periods of time, and then look at a non-retina display, you can easily notice the pixelation and roughness of text. If you've been mostly using non-retina displays, you'll be more than happy with the higher PPI of the mini.

 

Thanks much! Unfortunately, it's not my iPad 2, it's the girlfriend's, and I have only occasionally used it to look things up and have no practical day-to-day experience with it to see if it's laggy. She has a 4S and I have a 4 and the lag on my phone in comparison is horrible. If the Mini is that slow in comparison, I think I'll have to wait for the iPad Mini 2 :)

post #59 of 90

My pet peeve (and really only complaint about the iPad mini, aside from the price) is how the mini renders iPhone apps.

 

On the retina iPads, when an iPhone app is opened in x2 mode (that is, when you tap the "x2" to make it basically fill the screen rather than being just a tiny app with a huge border), it takes advantage of the retina-level graphics and font rendering so it looks pretty good.  It you look closely, you see that it's showing a pixel-doubled version of a retina iPhone app.  So the text is not razor-sharp, but it's as good as the native text on a first or second gen iPad.

 

On the other hand, doing the same thing on an iPad mini, look terrible.  I'm at a conference where the meeting materials are distributed as an iPhone app (don't ask me why THEY don't bother releasing a universal/iPad-friendly version, but they haven't).  Using this app on the iPad mini is grating.  It's pixel-doubles the non-retina version of the iPhone app, so the text looks terrible.  I had this complaint with the iPad 2, and was happen when the iPad (3) improved on it by using the retina version.  You don't need a retina display on the iPad to show a pixel-doubled version of a retina iPhone app.

 

This isn't a huge deal, but it does reflect poorly on the iPad mini.  My theory is that Apple wants developers to create proper universal apps with iPod-specific layouts, etc. rather than having them say "the iPhone version is good enough."  So while I have zero doubt that Apple could the mini render iPhone apps the way I want, I don't think they will.  Apple's answer will be that a pixel-double version of the iPhone app isn't the "right" user experience on the iPad, and it's the developers job to fix that by (fairly easily) making the app universal.  It's just too bad for users for those developers who don't bother do to so.  

post #60 of 90

OMG, all this hair splitting!

 

bottom line, the mini will immediately become Apple's top-selling iPad, as DED concludes. and total sales of all iPad/tablet models (including the iPod touch) will jump yet again this holiday quarter - always the biggest - compared to last year.

 

the mini will expand Apple's reach to new customers as well as supplant iPad 4 sales. that's what matters long-term. the more people who get into the Apple ecosystem, the more that will stay there through generations of product cycles - the benefit of installed base inertia.

 

Amazon's Fire will still sell OK to its devotees. and cheap Android tablets will fill the world's discount bins in large numbers.

 

but ... MS' Surface will be mini Road Kill.

post #61 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Totally wrong and still in dreamworld that thought the Mini would be $250 to start with.

18 months to 24 months from now and you will likely see this:

iPod Touch (16:9) 16 GB $199
iPad Mini 16GB $299
iPad Mini Retina 16GB $399
iPad Retina Full size 16GB $499
The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.

Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it. Not that they couldn't, but it would be going against precedent to price the next major improvement of the mini $70 more then the original. If anything I would expect to see the price drop as the economies of scale improve. How else could Apple afford to add Retina to the iPhone and iPad but keep the price the same?

I do agree the iPad 2 might be replaced. I used to think the mini would replace it as the low end iPad, until I saw the mini. Flawed or not, my rationale about the mini replacing the Touch seems more likely to me now, as the iPad 2 has taken on a prominent role in education with some pretty good arguments for a 10" tablet for that purpose made here.

If Apple continues its previous pattern, then it makes perfect sense that in two years we would see the previous generation of the mini drop to $200, just like the iPad 2. Retina displays, or whatever cutting edge technology Apple implements in their flagship models will always be in short supply at introduction, so giving customers a reason to buy something else also helps relieve the pressure. And I see no reason for them not to continue this pattern, as it further helps them get the maximum return on their investment setting up production lines for a particular model every year.
post #62 of 90
Bought my wife one the day it came out - LOVE IT. I have an iPad 2 and the screen is noticeably sharper. Not as sharp as my iPhone 5, of course, but very nice nonetheless. Also plenty zippy for what we do (ezines, ebooks, videos, web surfing, etc). Very satisfied so far.
post #63 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


You need to get out of whatever major metropolis you subsist in, and take a look at the rest of the world.
First I have an iPhone, and without cellular and wifi its pretty much an iPod touch with better hardware.
Second I said "may not" work in foreign countries. I travelled to Paris and Spain this Summer as a matter of fact. I could not find free wifi anywhere in Paris, and with my locked iPhone 4S I had no cell service, as I was unwilling to pay ATTs exorbitant world plan, or outrageous roaming fees, and truly The number of people I met without any Internet at home, much less wifi, was shocking in a major metropolitan city. Outside of Paris wifi was nonexistent. Spain was worse. I mainly was forced to pay to use computers at Internet cafes ... My iDevice was mostly useless. At least the next time I go back, my 4S will be unlocked and I can buy a local SIM card for both cellular and data. And don't get me started on El Salvador ...
But let's just stick to the good old USA for a moment, farmers and ranchers in the Midwest don't have access to either cellular or wifi when working on the land. Hunters rarely have such luxuries, much less power to recharge. Ever been to a national park? Nothing, nada. Military outposts, sailors at sea, etc. Ever driven through South Dakota? It's a long damn drive and you probably won't like what staticky radio stations you might find there. And ill bet you there are people in NY and NJ right now who are thrilled they bought an iPod Classic with 36 hours of battery life. There's a whole world outside of Silicon Valley, and a thriving market of people around the world who don't have access to the free wifi, 4G LTE, or even regular power.
Finally, as for the cost of manufacturing ... Clarify your statement. What don't "people" understand? As long as there is a market for a device, the cost of the parts has long been subsidized by bulk purchase. Of course there's still a cost to manufacture, but the fact Apple has not changed the design, nor had to market the Classic all save millions which can go into maintaining production for the albeit small, but nevertheless significant market for the Classic. Why else would Apple maintain the Mac Pro? Fewer people buy the MacPro than likely buy the iPod Classic, but it is a well defined market segment which requires little or no marketing to maintain the status quo, which in turn helps support the larger mor expensive ecosystem. And look, as I said before, the Classic does not cannibalize from any other existing product, unlike the Touch which takes money away from Apple's other similar products, as well as costing significant investment in upgrading the device to keep it competitive.
As for using them side by side ... Been there done that. I much prefer using the mini to my iPhone limited to the same functions. gaming is better, watching movies is better, reading books is better, and the mini is not significantly bigger. So stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. This is what I prefer, and I have expressed a related opinion based on broad experience. Hardly hot air. But feel free to disagree. It's a free country.

 

 

Apple is a business.

 

I can't believe that you wrote these long replies after long replies to "substantiate" your opinions about the iPod touch.

 

I disagree with your opinions.

 

You mentioned that you traveled to Europe, and you also considered farmers and people in the outdoors.  But somehow, I feel that you are still not connected to reality (and the market).  I think you still need to get out more and see even more of the world.

 

That you traveled with a locked iPhone and that you had to pay for wifi in Paris and Spain seem to indicate that you lack experience.

post #64 of 90

It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.

 

 

It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

 

 

 

Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!

 

 

Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.

 

 

Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh!  For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.

 

As a musician which would you choose?

 

 

A Painter? No doubt the 27"

 

 

A Publisher ? No contest.

 

 

Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!

 

Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.

post #65 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.
 

 

You haven't been paying attention, prices have bounced up and down, from $199 to $249, and now the new version is $299. Mac Mini went from $499 base to $599 base. Prices move up when it makes sense.

 

 

Quote:

 Flawed or not, my rationale about the mini replacing the Touch seems more likely to me now, as the iPad 2 has taken on a prominent role in education with some pretty good arguments for a 10" tablet for that purpose made here.

If Apple continues its previous pattern, then it makes perfect sense that in two years we would see the previous generation of the mini drop to $200, just like the iPad 2.

 

Perhaps I wasn't strenuous enough the first time so I think that other guy was onto something.

 

Are you batshit nuts?

 

1) The touch is still a very strong seller. It's a music player that fits in a shirt pocket. The mini doesn't replace it.

 

2) $200 only gets you an old A4 Touch, no way in hell are they reducing an iPad mini anywhere near that. Of my predictions, the new iPod touch 16:9 making it down to $200 is the biggest stretch.

 

3) Math also seems to be a weakness for you. iPad 2 with bigger ASP and bigger margins drops 20% and you think it is the same thing as the Mini with lower ASP/Margin dropping 40%. Batshit nuts. If anything the smaller ASP/Margin product will drop less. Think 10% instead of 20% like iPad 2, and certainly not 40%.

post #66 of 90

+1

post #67 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries View Post

It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.

 

 

It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

 

 

 

Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!

 

 

Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.

 

 

Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh!  For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.

 

As a musician which would you choose?

 

 

A Painter? No doubt the 27"

 

 

A Publisher ? No contest.

 

 

Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!

 

Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.

 

you must be one of those MS IT dinosaurs i wrote about.

post #68 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.

 

in 2010 the entry price of the iPod touch increased from $199 to $229, so we did see it happen.

in a similar fashion, the 5th gen iPod is $299 even though the 4th gen stuck around at $199.

Apple bumping the 1st gen iPad mini to down to $299 and releasing a 2nd gen iPad mini with retina for $399 would not be breaking any traditions you seem to believe Apple has on pricing.

post #69 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post

in 2010 the entry price of the iPod touch increased from $199 to $229, so we did see it happen.
in a similar fashion, the 5th gen iPod is $299 even though the 4th gen stuck around at $199.
Apple bumping the 1st gen iPad mini to down to $299 and releasing a 2nd gen iPad mini with retina for $399 would not be breaking any traditions you seem to believe Apple has on pricing.

I don't form these opinions in a vacuum ...

http://techland.time.com/2012/11/05/why-the-ipad-mini-is-priced-at-329/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/06/the-trouble-with-apples-ipad-mini/

http://www.zdnet.com/apples-new-ipad-mini-great-for-those-moving-up-from-ipod-touch-not-for-those-with-an-ipad-already-7000006241/

And you might want to check your facts and compare Apples to, um Apples ...

Entry price for current model flagship iPod Touch

8GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_2g
32GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_3g
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_4g
32GB $299 -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch

So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).

So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.

And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
Edited by Mac_128 - 11/7/12 at 7:52am
post #70 of 90
This is by far the best small sized tablet on the market today. Compared to the Nexus 7, the mini is thinner, lighter, made out of aluminum and not plastic, has a more stable and reliable os, has a higher resale value, has more tablet optimized apps, etc...
post #71 of 90
In Ireland the mini costs %u20AC339 ($432) for 16GB, %u20AC439 ($560) for 32GB. For reasons best known to Apple..
post #72 of 90
Originally Posted by skeoghman View Post
In Ireland the mini costs %u20AC339 ($432) for 16GB, %u20AC439 ($560) for 32GB. For reasons best known to Apple..

 

VAT and international taxes. There; now the reasons are known to everyone.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
post #73 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


I don't form these opinions in a vacuum ...
http://techland.time.com/2012/11/05/why-the-ipad-mini-is-priced-at-329/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/06/the-trouble-with-apples-ipad-mini/
http://www.zdnet.com/apples-new-ipad-mini-great-for-those-moving-up-from-ipod-touch-not-for-those-with-an-ipad-already-7000006241/
And you might want to check your facts and compare Apples to, um Apples ...
Entry price for current model flagship iPod Touch
8GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_2g
32GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_3g
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_4g
32GB $299 -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch
So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.

 

my facts are sound. you are bending the rules and changing your tune to make things turn out in your favor. you are wrong. you are a pompus blowhard and a troll. that is all. i'm done with this conversation and i will never make the mistake of replying to you ever again.

post #74 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.

 

I like how you skipped the model that proves you wrong:

 

iPod Touch 3rd Gen 8GB $199:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-3rd-gen-8-gb-specs.html

iPod Touch 4th Generation 8GB $229

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-4th-gen-4g-facetime-specs.html

 

That is without any capacity games. With capacity games  we have the 5th gen touch that starts at a minimum of $299.

 

Even more pronounced with Mac Mini:

Base Price:

Mac Mini 2005: $499

Mac Mini 2007: $599

Mac Mini 2010: $699

 

Apple is certainly not afraid to raise prices when it makes sense.  The Retina Mini increasing in price will make sense. The only real question is how much the retina mini will increase. It will be somewhere from $349 to $399. The regular mini will of course fall in price, but only a modest amount. It will be $279-$299 base.

 

Since we can all be prone to wishful thinking, I chose the high end of the range as my previous estimate. So:

Mini $299

Retina Mini $399.

 

This gives an excellent spread of devices from $200 to $500 with price/sizes covered between $200 shirt pocket (touch), to $500 couch surfing full size Retina.

post #75 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I like how you skipped the model that proves you wrong:

iPod Touch 3rd Gen 8GB $199:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-3rd-gen-8-gb-specs.html
iPod Touch 4th Generation 8GB $229
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-4th-gen-4g-facetime-specs.html
I didn't leave it out. There was no 3rd gen. 8GB IPod Touch, it was the same 2nd gen. 8GB Touch continued over exactly the same way the current 4th gen. 16GB is at $199 now. Thus remaining consistent with their established pattern of pricing iOS devices.

Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
Quote:
Originally Posted by everymac 
Although they originally were sold as a single lineup with 8 GB, 32 GB, and 64 GB of storage, this 8 GB model effectively is the same as the 8 GB configuration of the iPod touch 2nd Generation and does not fully support iOS 4 nor does it support subsequent versions of the iOS at all.

And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.
Edited by Mac_128 - 11/7/12 at 2:41pm
post #76 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


I didn't leave it out. There was no 3rd gen. 8GB IPod Touch, it was the same 2nd gen. 8GB Touch continued over exactly the same way the current 4th gen. 16GB is at $199 now. Thus remaining consistent with their established pattern of pricing iOS devices.
Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.

 

Macs have bigger margins than an iPod touch. You can't ignore Macs just because they don't back your argument. Apple will set prices that make sense.

 

Nothing but time will settle this. But I am quite sure my numbers are close to reality, your iPad mini at $200 delusion won't come to pass. It is just completely out of touch with reality.  I'll bookmark for future claim chowder and move on.

post #77 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Macs have bigger margins than an iPod touch. You can't ignore Macs just because they don't back your argument. Apple will set prices that make sense.

Nothing but time will settle this. But I am quite sure my numbers are close to reality, your iPad mini at $200 delusion won't come to pass. It is just completely out of touch with reality.  I'll bookmark for future claim chowder and move on.
Margins is the wrong word. What I said first, sales volume/economy of scale. Macs account for a small percentage of Apple's bottom line -- At last count something like 14% across 5 product lines ... Compare that to iPhone, iPad and iPod making up 75% of Apple's total revenue. At that scale and volume, you could subsidize almost anything. No wonder the Mac's margins are higher, they invest a considerable amount of money to support that ecosystem and sell relatively few of them.

Now taking a look at Apple's Q3 report, I noticed that the entire iPod line accounts for only 3% of Apple's profits. That's an incredibly tiny portion of their business. Since there are four models of iPod, and the Touch is the best seller, accounting for about 1.5% of Apple's profits -- down about a million units from last year as well. Compare that to the iPad's 26% of Apple's bottom line, which grew along with the iPhone over last year. So therein lies another reason I can see the iPod Touch going away if the iPad mini cannibilizes more from the Touch (as many pundits expect), rather than from the iPad, considering the iPod profits are in general decline. However well the Touch sells, the iPod is a significantly smaller segment of Apple's ecosystem than I realized, even smaller than the Mac, which I thought was Apple's lowest performing area (yet it too also had year over year growth in contrast to iPod). So the only thing that may be keeping the iPod division going is the percentage of iTunes purchases they may responsible for, as iTunes represents 6% of Apple's net profits.

As you say, only time will tell. But based on the paucity of profits the iPod Touch represents to Apple's bottom line, and the fact the iPod line is in general decline, I don't expect the Touch to be around in two years if its sales drop further whether the mini canibalize them or not, especially when there are other more lucrative products in Apple's stable to absorb the Touch users ... It's not like Microsoft or Android offers anything to compete with it. But who knows ...
Edited by Mac_128 - 11/7/12 at 5:19pm
post #78 of 90

In Paris, Mcdonalds has a free wifi, so do other sandwich shops...

post #79 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryville View Post

In Paris, Mcdonalds has a free wifi, so do other sandwich shops...

McDonald's in the US has free WIFi, too but we don't all it Royale with Internet.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

post #80 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


I've been banging on this perception of ripoff for memory for a while now. It is not just a matter of the cost of the parts!
Each memory differentiation costs money in parts inventory tracking, logistics and production, and later in inventory and sales.There have to be separate production lines for each memory model, and this is multiplied by the connectivity options and (probably) by colors. Each line requires new factory space and trained shifts of workers. And so on.
Unless you can cost all that out and present us with an analysis you have no business assuming it's a ripoff.


If 32GB NAND is about $18-$25 more than 16GB NAND (& I add some of the costs you so astutely mentioned above), then I sure as hell can state my opinion, regardless of you thinking I "have no business".  I have seen blogs/posts/articles written about this (CNET & others), so I know I'm not alone with my perception/opinion.

 

I'm well aware of the concept of upselling and "loss leaders" as some here have already pointed out.  I'm glad that some here emphasized that...much more valuable than your unsupportable theory (which you have not supplied any cost information either).

 

I empathize with other consumers on this matter.  There are other lines of 7" tablets that offer 32GB at only $50 above the 16GB, but realize that Galaxy Tab is typically $100 more...similar to iPad Mini.

 

I think that $339/16GB and $399/32GB could be win-win price points...as more consumers would have upsold themselves to the 32GB at that smaller $70 price increase.

 

And next time, please don't refute others merely by saying they have no proof...this is a rumor site. :-)

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
This thread is locked  
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Review: Apple's iPad mini