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I Don't Recognize My Country Anymore

post #1 of 455
Thread Starter 

There will be plenty of time for analysis about the "why" of last night's election.  Clearly, I was wrong...as were several pundits I have come to respect for their expertise.  Say what you will, Karl Rove and Dick Morris know their jobs and have always delivered accurate results. But I'm sure we will discuss the reason for the outcome later.  

 

What I don't understand is the "how."  How is that we reelected a President who has failed in almost all measures of his job? How is that we reelected a former community organizer with a radical past?  How is it that people voted against an experienced governor and business leader with a sterling personal background, and voted for the guy that ran a small, angry and divisive campaign?  How is it that for the first time since FDR, we re-elected a President with more than 7.3% unemployment?  How is it that the American people ignored Benghazi?  How did we reelect the President when the top concern of voter was the economy and only 4 in 10 said we were on the right track with it?  How were the final national polls off by at least 5%?  How was the anecdotal evidence so wrong?  

 

I honestly don't recognize the country that voted for this man.  I don't recognize a country that voted for pessimism instead of optimism.  I don't recognize a country that voted for More Free Crap™, trillion dollar deficits, and higher taxes.  I don't recognize a country that voted for a man who went overseas and apologized for America...a man who was caught on an open mic essentially telling Vladimir Putin he'd give away the store on missile defense after his last election.  I don't recognize a country that reelected a man who promised skyrocketing energy prices and bankrupt coal companies...and delivered on his promise.  In the America I grew up in, this election wouldn't even have been close.  We had better judgement.  We demanded more of our leaders than "it could have been worse."  We didn't hate business, the rich and oil companies.  We didn't essentially take over auto companies and give them to the unions.  We wouldn't tolerate a President who called his opponent a "bullshitter" and whose campaign all but called his opponent a murderer.  

 

I don't know where this leaves us.  I do know that unlike Michelle Obama, this is the first time I'm not proud of my country.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #2 of 455

More than 50% of the US don't recognise this tirade as being the truth, or certainly not the whole truth.

 

I have one for you, which may help: why are you not capable of seeing the flaws and deceits of Mitt Romney and his campaign? 

post #3 of 455

This is the potential for a moment of great catharsis for you. You've let faith, not backed up with facts that are entirely obvious to those with eyes to see, blind you to the fact Obama was going to win. The same faith makes you believe nonsense about how Obama 'hates business' etc. etc., all of which is just ludicrous.

 

And you're still doing it.

 

The polls weren't off by 5% SDW. The polls were right. 

 

Only in your faith-blinded eyes is that the truth. The polls said Obama was going to win.

 

This is a big, important thing.

 

You need to wrap your head around it; it's a big thing and will require you to be brave.

post #4 of 455
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald II View Post

More than 50% of the US don't recognise this tirade as being the truth, or certainly not the whole truth.

 

I have one for you, which may help: why are you not capable of seeing the flaws and deceits of Mitt Romney and his campaign? 

 

1.  It's not a tirade.  

 

2.  What is "not true?" I wrote about my feelings on the outcome.  I wrote about facts such as trillion dollar deficits and the fact that Obama was a "community organizer."  Tell me what you view as untrue.  

 

3.  The deceits?  Oh, do tell.  And by all means, ignore that our President is a liar.  As for Romney, I have no complains about his campaign other than I would have liked to see him call out Obama on Benghazi, Fast and Furious as well as propose a more aggressive tax restructuring.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald II View Post

This is the potential for a moment of great catharsis for you. You've let faith, not backed up with facts that are entirely obvious to those with eyes to see, blind you to the fact Obama was going to win. The same faith makes you believe nonsense about how Obama 'hates business' etc. etc., all of which is just ludicrous.

 

And you're still doing it.

 

The polls weren't off by 5% SDW. The polls were right. 

 

Only in your faith-blinded eyes is that the truth. The polls said Obama was going to win.

 

This is a big, important thing.

 

You need to wrap your head around it; it's a big thing and will require you to be brave.

 

Secondly, the polls were wrong in many respects, particularly the national popular vote (Rasmussen and Gallup both had Romney up by 1..he lost by about 2).  The polls showed Romney even with women...he lost women by a sizable margin.  The rest of it was turnout.  Morris and Rove were wrong about turnout, which they predicted would be more like 2000 and 2004 than 2008.  As Morris wrote this morning, he was wrong.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 455

I was starting a thread along these lines but double-checked before hitting submit and saw this thread. I figure this is as good a place as any for it.

 

So the election is over. While some may be crowing about a candidate winning or losing, about the predictions of this or that pundit, there is still the day to day reality to deal with and I figured this thread would be as good a place as any to start on that.

 

So my thoughts on the election. First some will crow about Nate Silver but as I quoted from an article critical of him, he did no better than the simple aggregation models posted by most other sites. His site, when it wasn't owned by the NY Times, would have slammed all those pollsters who spent months on end showing Obama ahead by 4-5+% and then somehow "magically" tightening it up to a more accurate result at the end. That Nate Silver doesn't exist anymore though and he won't waste time with his pollster rankings because he would have to throw several pollsters under the bus. Clearly the turnout for the election wasn't historic and didn't match the 2008 turnout model either. Obama took fewer states, and had a lower win percentage. In that way he is negatively historic because he is the first president to win reelection while shrinking the coalition that elected him.

 

So now some people will say folks like myself are wrong and they are correct in regard to the outcome of the election. I guess I'm just too much of an optimist. There was plenty of talk among the conservatives about the American people not hitting the accelerator when speeding toward a cliff or about what would get drunk out of a bar. While I may have been to optimistic about Republican poll outcomes, the numbers for financial outcomes can't be denied. Also is it really delusional or crazy to not want to believe a decent percentage of your countrymen and their votes are bought and paid for by EITC, food stamps, Obamaphones (lifeline phone service), Section 8 housing and so on? Is it delusional to believe people want to stand on their own two feet rather than just wait for an income transfer payment of some sort?

 

Obama has the government spending one out of every four dollars in the economy. The government borrows one out of three dollars it spends. All of this happens to give us less than two percent economic growth. The numbers for sustaining these actions do not add up nor do the benefits received for the actions taken add up.

 

Conservatives are left scratching their head at the response to the false outrage. The man borrows $5 trillion dollars and you're really worried about someone outlawing your contraception when no one is claiming or demanding such a thing is a good example of that.

 

Perhaps the false fears and outrages shut off enough brains, but the real fear, the fiscal cliff, hasn't gone away nor is the path to avert it becoming any easier. Screaming vagina over and over doesn't change the facts.

 

The American people, by a very small majority, buy the bad math. However it's the same people that swore housing prices never drop, that P/E ratios don't matter because it's an internet stock. This is partially why I've argued it is a generational issue because you see the same people buy the same lies over and over again. The rules don't matter. This time is different. You can really get something for nothing. There doesn't need to be a real plan or real actions for prosperity, just good intentions and for everyone to buy the same lie. It really doesn't matter what they use to buy the lie. The lie reveals itself and the price will be paid. Everything reverts to the mean. You borrow $5 trillion and owe $15 trillion to avoid economic pain, that pain will come back with interest. There's no denying that, just neat tricks to push it past the election.

 

I suspect the rest of this year will feature a metric crap-load of bad news. The debt ceiling has been reached. I'm sure we will have some "revised" job numbers. The media might finally let some the bad news with regard to the Middle East out of the bag.

 

I'm sure it will be lots of fun for everyone.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 455
post #7 of 455

Sad day for the American people.  As long as the GOP establishment runs these RINOS, folks are screwed.  Then we have the MSM lies and Chris Christie almost hopping into bed with B Hussein Obama last week.  

post #8 of 455

We Ron Paul supporters said you couldn't win without us. Perhaps you should think about that before alienating us and disenfranchising us from your party.

 

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #9 of 455

 

You called it jji, 57 million people are just horrible and terrible.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #10 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There will be plenty of time for analysis about the "why" of last night's election.  Clearly, I was wrong...as were several pundits I have come to respect for their expertise.  Say what you will, Karl Rove and Dick Morris know their jobs and have always delivered accurate results. But I'm sure we will discuss the reason for the outcome later.  

 

What I don't understand is the "how."  How is that we reelected a President who has failed in almost all measures of his job? How is that we reelected a former community organizer with a radical past?  How is it that people voted against an experienced governor and business leader with a sterling personal background, and voted for the guy that ran a small, angry and divisive campaign?  How is it that for the first time since FDR, we re-elected a President with more than 7.3% unemployment?  How is it that the American people ignored Benghazi?  How did we reelect the President when the top concern of voter was the economy and only 4 in 10 said we were on the right track with it?  How were the final national polls off by at least 5%?  How was the anecdotal evidence so wrong?  

 

I honestly don't recognize the country that voted for this man.  I don't recognize a country that voted for pessimism instead of optimism.  I don't recognize a country that voted for More Free Crap™, trillion dollar deficits, and higher taxes.  I don't recognize a country that voted for a man who went overseas and apologized for America...a man who was caught on an open mic essentially telling Vladimir Putin he'd give away the store on missile defense after his last election.  I don't recognize a country that reelected a man who promised skyrocketing energy prices and bankrupt coal companies...and delivered on his promise.  In the America I grew up in, this election wouldn't even have been close.  We had better judgement.  We demanded more of our leaders than "it could have been worse."  We didn't hate business, the rich and oil companies.  We didn't essentially take over auto companies and give them to the unions.  We wouldn't tolerate a President who called his opponent a "bullshitter" and whose campaign all but called his opponent a murderer.  

 

I don't know where this leaves us.  I do know that unlike Michelle Obama, this is the first time I'm not proud of my country.  

lol.gif Yeah we know it's the end of the world!1oyvey.gif

 

Well at least there was this :

 

Quote:

Clearly, I was wrong...as were several pundits I have come to respect


 

Sorry but in a lot of people's minds the best man won. Sorry about any sour grapes.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #11 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but in a lot of people's minds the best man won.

 

Your realize that doesn't mean it's true don't you?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but in a lot of people's minds the best man won.

 

Your realize that doesn't mean it's true don't you?

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #13 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

Nice to see you have resurfaced to gloat with the rest of the Obama supporters, jimmac. 1wink.gif

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #14 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

Nice to see you have resurfaced to gloat with the rest of the Obama supporters, jimmac. 1wink.gif

Gloating where gloating is due my friend. You and your buddies were laying it on pretty thick ( " Dead man walking " ) for the better part of a year now so you should expect it.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #15 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

I see that your fallacious thinking is still solidly intact.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #16 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

I see that your fallacious thinking is still solidly intact.

So is the Presidency thank God!1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #17 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So is the Presidency thank God!1wink.gif

 

I'm quite sure of that!

 

lol.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #18 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Gloating where gloating is due my friend. You and your buddies were laying it on pretty thick ( " Dead man walking " ) for the better part of a year now so you should expect it.1wink.gif

 

You appear to have erroneously associated me with a group of people with which I am not affiliated. I understand it's easier for you that way, but it makes you look foolish when you do so.

 

I did not make any predictions as to which of the two statists would win. To me, it was a waste of time.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #19 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Gloating where gloating is due my friend. You and your buddies were laying it on pretty thick ( " Dead man walking " ) for the better part of a year now so you should expect it.1wink.gif

 

You appear to have erroneously associated me with a group of people with which I am not affiliated. I understand it's easier for you that way, but it makes you look foolish when you do so.

 

I did not make any predictions as to which of the two statists would win. To me, it was a waste of time.

If only you would stop making comments that tend to put you in that category. Like your comment about Mathews. Clearly that's not what he meant. But you chose to see it that way. Oh well.

 

Ps. Someone looks foolish this morning and it's not me.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #20 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

If only you would stop making comments that tend to put you in that category. Like your comment about Mathews. Clearly that's not what he meant. But you chose to see it that way. Oh well.

 

I see so now we have the official (or as close as we're going to get) "jimmac non-partisan interpretation" of what Chris Matthews said. And that is that he did not mean what he said. lol.gif

 

You're priceless. Your apologetics for leftists everywhere all the time is priceless.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #21 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

If only you would stop making comments that tend to put you in that category. Like your comment about Mathews. Clearly that's not what he meant. But you chose to see it that way. Oh well.

 

Ps. Someone looks foolish this morning and it's not me.1wink.gif

 

Oh, alright, jimmac, I'll stop making comments you disagree with so you stop putting me into these bizarre categories you've come up with in your mind and treating me in a condescending manner. 1wink.gif

 

You don't look foolish at all. 1wink.gif

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #22 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

If only you would stop making comments that tend to put you in that category. Like your comment about Mathews. Clearly that's not what he meant. But you chose to see it that way. Oh well.

 

Ps. Someone looks foolish this morning and it's not me.1wink.gif

 

Oh, alright, jimmac, I'll stop making comments you disagree with so you stop putting me into these bizarre categories you've come up with in your mind and treating me in a condescending manner. 1wink.gif

 

You don't look foolish at all. 1wink.gif

 The real world's calling.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #23 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

Nice to see you have resurfaced to gloat with the rest of the Obama supporters, jimmac. 1wink.gif

Gloating where gloating is due my friend. You and your buddies were laying it on pretty thick ( " Dead man walking " ) for the better part of a year now so you should expect it.1wink.gif

 

 

Dead man walking doesn't have to end just because he won an election. Obama still has to find a way to magically end his drone wars, close Gitmo, keep all the promises he didn't "break" but just needs more time to accomplish, stop a debt crisis, taxmaggedon and some how not get blamed for the coming fall back into economic recession. (Not that we ever really left it.)

 

Obama borrowed $5 trillion to hide the pain. The pain is still there.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #24 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The real world's calling.1wink.gif

 

Well it certainly doesn't have to worry about you (or any other leftist) answering.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #25 of 455

Its amazing that conservatives are so sad this morning. Obama's record re. all aspects of policy when averaged out, is further right than either Nixon or Reagan.. and compared to Eisenhower, is a long way to the right. I guess you just didn't get the ultra extremist you were hoping for.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #26 of 455
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

lol.gif Yeah we know it's the end of the world!1oyvey.gif

 

Well at least there was this :

 

Sorry but in a lot of people's minds the best man won. Sorry about any sour grapes.1wink.gif

 

 

And that is the problem.  I don't feel like I do simply because the other guy won, or just that I strongly disagree with the President.  The majority of people are now takers instead of makers (how ironic that Romney's 47% comment was dead-on). They clearly expressed they don't care about deficits, national security or promises kept.  They care about More Free Crap™ and the first black President.  That's who we are now.  Self-reliance, hard work and risk taking are dead.  Entitlement is alive.  The country is lost, and this election proves it.  

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

 

 

Dead man walking doesn't have to end just because he won an election. Obama still has to find a way to magically end his drone wars, close Gitmo, keep all the promises he didn't "break" but just needs more time to accomplish, stop a debt crisis, taxmaggedon and some how not get blamed for the coming fall back into economic recession. (Not that we ever really left it.)

 

Obama borrowed $5 trillion to hide the pain. The pain is still there.

 

 

Obama doesn't have to do anything.  The damage is done, as I explained above.  The problem is not with the man that holds the office, but is clearly the nation that elected him.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #27 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The majority of people are now takers instead of makers (how ironic that Romney's 47% comment was dead-on). They clearly expressed they don't care about deficits, national security or promises kept.  They care about More Free Crap™ and the first black President.  That's who we are now.  Self-reliance, hard work and risk taking are dead.  Entitlement is alive.

 

I think this is a fundamental problem.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Its amazing that conservatives are so sad this morning. Obama's record re. all aspects of policy when averaged out, is further right than either Nixon or Reagan.. and compared to Eisenhower, is a long way to the right. I guess you just didn't get the ultra extremist you were hoping for.

 

I'm not sure if it is so much right/left, but you're basically right if you think about the political spectrum as more of a circle like this:

 

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #29 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes it's not true...........in your mind.1wink.gif

 

Nice to see you have resurfaced to gloat with the rest of the Obama supporters, jimmac. 1wink.gif

Gloating where gloating is due my friend. You and your buddies were laying it on pretty thick ( " Dead man walking " ) for the better part of a year now so you should expect it.1wink.gif

 

 

Dead man walking doesn't have to end just because he won an election. Obama still has to find a way to magically end his drone wars, close Gitmo, keep all the promises he didn't "break" but just needs more time to accomplish, stop a debt crisis, taxmaggedon and some how not get blamed for the coming fall back into economic recession. (Not that we ever really left it.)

 

Obama borrowed $5 trillion to hide the pain. The pain is still there.

 

Quote:

Dead man walking doesn't have to end just because he won an election

In reality it was still born. It's just isn't like you see it Trumptman ( notice I used your real handle so I'm being serious here ). Sure did Obama do everything the way I wanted him to? Hell no! But compared to what Romney/Ryan would have done it's really workable. What we don't need right now is to go back to the Bush policies or a ham fisted approach either. Unemployment isn't where any of us would like it. However I really do believe that this problem was so bad that any approach that could have been used ( say McCain had won in 08' ) would have it's problems and unemployment wouldn't be much different either way. It took many years to get into this and it won't be fixed overnight. No one could have. And like I've said if they claim otherwise they're selling something.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #30 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

lol.gif Yeah we know it's the end of the world!1oyvey.gif

 

Well at least there was this :

 

Sorry but in a lot of people's minds the best man won. Sorry about any sour grapes.1wink.gif

 

 

And that is the problem.  I don't feel like I do simply because the other guy won, or just that I strongly disagree with the President.  The majority of people are now takers instead of makers (how ironic that Romney's 47% comment was dead-on). They clearly expressed they don't care about deficits, national security or promises kept.  They care about More Free Crap™ and the first black President.  That's who we are now.  Self-reliance, hard work and risk taking are dead.  Entitlement is alive.  The country is lost, and this election proves it.  

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

 

 

Dead man walking doesn't have to end just because he won an election. Obama still has to find a way to magically end his drone wars, close Gitmo, keep all the promises he didn't "break" but just needs more time to accomplish, stop a debt crisis, taxmaggedon and some how not get blamed for the coming fall back into economic recession. (Not that we ever really left it.)

 

Obama borrowed $5 trillion to hide the pain. The pain is still there.

 

 

Obama doesn't have to do anything.  The damage is done, as I explained above.  The problem is not with the man that holds the office, but is clearly the nation that elected him.  

 

Quote:

They care about More Free Crap™ and the first black President. That's who we are now. Self-reliance, hard work and risk taking are dead. Entitlement is alive. The country is lost, and this election proves it. 

So your side lost. It's not the end. Hardly. Some of the problem here is that Conservatives tend to lump people all into one group. Are there people who take advantage of the system? Sure lots of them. It's disgraceful. However in that 47 % that Mr. Romney was talking about are people who worked for our armed forces, the elderly, students who are our future ( no matter how MJ views it ). It's not just free loaders. I'm all for welfare reform. I'm not just for the cold blooded forgetting of people who deserve help.

 

So what if there are two extreme views of th situation. Surely you understand like in all things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #31 of 455
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Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I really do believe that this problem was so bad that any approach that could have been used would have it's problems and unemployment wouldn't be much different either way. It took many years to get into this and it won't be fixed overnight. No one could have. And like I've said if they claim otherwise they're selling something.

 

That's not going to be true no matter how many times you repeat it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #32 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Some of the problem here is that Conservatives tend to lump people all into one group.

 

Holy ****. The irony meter just broke again.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm not just for the cold blooded forgetting of people who deserve help.

 

And look, we have a straw man too!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Some of the problem here is that Conservatives tend to lump people all into one group.

 

Holy ****. The irony meter just broke again.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm not just for the cold blooded forgetting of people who deserve help.

And look, we have a straw man too!

You're a self proclaimed anarchist. So what difference does anything you say make?

 

 

Quote:
And look, we have a straw man too!

That would be the lumping together part. Sorry you have sour grapes this morning ( hows that 3rd party candidate doing? ).

 

 

You'd look at both sides and take pot shots. Very few in this country agree with you on either side. And in case you haven't noticed majority rules here by vote. That's what this country is all about. The common good. If you don't like that leave.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #34 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're a self proclaimed anarchist. So what difference does anything you say make?

 

Are you saying what I say has no value because I'm an anarcho-capitalist?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #35 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

You'd look at both sides and take pot shots.

 

Yes I do point out the problems and fallacies and issues with policies and politicians from the two main branches of the main establishment party.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

Very few in this country agree with you on either side.

 

I'm sure that's true.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

If you don't like that leave.

 

Well first, I love how you leftists have now adopted that old "America love it or leave it mantra" that conservatives are so found of.

 

Second, I'm working on it. But it's not easy.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #36 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And in case you haven't noticed majority rules here by vote. That's what this country is all about. The common good.

 

Actually that's what this country was about. But that most people think like you do is part of the problem.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #37 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're a self proclaimed anarchist. So what difference does anything you say make?

 

Are you saying what I say has no value because I'm an anarcho-capitalist?

No. It's just most of the time ( because this isn't an anarchy or even leaning that way because it's not what the voters want ) irrelevant.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #38 of 455
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Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. It's just most of the time ( because this isn't an anarchy or even leaning that way because it's not what the voters want ) irrelevant.

 

Perhaps irrelevant to the current state of affairs. But not totally irrelevant.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. It's just most of the time ( because this isn't an anarchy or even leaning that way because it's not what the voters want ) irrelevant.

 

Perhaps irrelevant to the current state of affairs. But not totally irrelevant.

Yes it's always good to know that all viewpoints ( no matter how different or not representing the whole ) are represented here at P.O.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #40 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I'm not sure if it is so much right/left, but you're basically right if you think about the political spectrum as more of a circle like this:

 

 

I've seen this a fair bit... but there's a yawning discontinuity at the top of the circle because the 'neocon' and 'progressive' positions are miles apart. This diagram is a misleading way of depicting a one dimensional spectrum.

 

The x/y diagram below (imho) is somewhat little more representative..... and the huge majority of politicians (from both major parties) lay somewhere in the blue section.

 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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