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HTC settlement may pay Apple $8 per phone, act as blueprint for Samsung & Motorola

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Apple's out-of-court settlement with rival smartphone maker HTC is expected to give Apple a net licensing fee of as much as $8 per phone, and may also serve as a blueprint for future deals with Samsung and Motorola.

Analyst Shaw Wu with Sterne Agee spoke with industry sources who led him to believe the Apple-HTC settlement will result in a net licensing fee of between $6 and $8. With HTC expected to ship between 30 million and 35 million smartphones in 2013, that would result in annual revenue of between $180 million and $280 million for Apple.

"This is apparently lower than the range AAPL initially proposed," Wu wrote in a note to investors on Monday. "But to put this in context, this compares to press reports indicated HTC pays (Microsoft) $5 per phone running Android."

While as much as $280 million in revenue might be a big deal for most companies, that amount is likely to be "immaterial" to Apple, given that investors expect it will secure $48 billion in net income in fiscal 2013.

HTC One X

HTC's flagship HTC One X smartphone. | Source: HTC


Wu believes the settlement will serve as a blueprint for Apple's ongoing lawsuits with Samsung and Motorola. He thinks Apple is likely closer to a settlement with its rivals, and the terms of the HTC deal could help Samsung and Motorola also reach similar agreements.

"We think it is fair that AAPL will get some licensing revenue for the intellectual property it has developed (in particular multi-touch gestures) in making the modern smartphone and tablet with touch screens," he said. "Prior to the iPhone and iPad, there were arguably no products that were close in functionality and appearance."

It was announced over the weekend that Apple and HTC had settled all of their patent litigation. The two rival companies also agreed to a 10-year patent licensing deal.

Details of the settlement remain secret, but the 10-year deal is expected to prevent any future suits between the two smartphone makers.
post #2 of 44
Could pay for the increase in costs for CPU orders!
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post #3 of 44
Quote:
Wu believes the settlement will serve as a blueprint for Apple's ongoing lawsuits with Samsung and HTC.

This makes no sense. I think you meant Samsung and Motorola.
post #4 of 44
Quote:

HTC said its licensing payments to Apple would have "no material impact on the finances of the company".

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/12/business/apple-htc-patent/index.html

 

 

Can't be all THAT much.

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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #5 of 44

It just keeps getting more expensive to use a stolen product. Whoever said crime didn't play? Whoever said theft was free? lol.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #6 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It just keeps getting more expensive to use a stolen product. Whoever said crime didn't play? Whoever said theft was free? lol.gif

 

trolltalk, galbi, droid, etc.

post #7 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Could pay for the increase in costs for CPU orders!


LOL, this is exactly what I was thinking!

post #8 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It just keeps getting more expensive to use a stolen product. Whoever said crime didn't play? Whoever said theft was free? lol.gif


Ugh.. seeing as you take a strong stance against trolling, you should avoid it yourself. The entire stolen product notion here is ridiculous. Patent infringement isn't the same thing as theft. It's just being construed in a ridiculous manner here.

post #9 of 44
@tallest skil : >"crime doesn't PLAY"

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #10 of 44
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
The entire stolen product notion here is ridiculous. Patent infringement isn't the same thing as theft.

 

Well this might cause some cross-thread mayhem, given that the VirnetX trial thread was all about this.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #11 of 44

You see that's the difference between Apple and Microsoft; Microsoft goes about this much more quietly.

post #12 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

You see that's the difference between Apple and Microsoft; Microsoft goes about this much more quietly.
Yeah, we'll, Apple was never really known for 'quietly'. And they don't wear suits.
post #13 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

You see that's the difference between Apple and Microsoft; Microsoft goes about this much more quietly.

 

Um... analysts reported about the Microsoft deal.

 

Now analysts are reporting about the Apple deal.

 

This isn't an Apple press release... this is Shaw Wu talking to "industry sources."  The exact same as they did with Microsoft.

post #14 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

 

Um... analysts reported about the Microsoft deal.

 

Now analysts are reporting about the Apple deal.

 

This isn't an Apple press release... this is Shaw Wu talking to "industry sources."  The exact same as they did with Microsoft.

 

I'm speaking generally. The whole Apple infringement thing is way too loud. I wanted  to know how Microsoft managed to creep around the tech sector, extracting royalties from the Android OEMs and telling them what functions they could include on their phones the (including Samsung) - all without raising a ripple.

 

The answer is of course, Windows. 

 

Many of the companies who make Android phones also make Windows computers. The last thing they want is to risk a sudden and hefty increase in Windows licensing fees. And the rest can't afford a long drawn out battle.

post #15 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well this might cause some cross-thread mayhem, given that the VirnetX trial thread was all about this.


Well regarding that I dislike software patents regardless of who owns them. Code is protected by copyright and NDAs. In the VirnetX filing, it looks like they did have R&D invested. I'm not sure whether their R&D shortened the cycle for Apple and Microsoft, but I really do dislike things that are easily infringed upon unknowingly. It's a complex topic either way, but I've never described it as "theft" regardless of the identity of the plaintiff.

post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

 

trolltalk, galbi, droid, etc.


Thank you for acknowledging me amongst all the others. I'm flattered. You will see me more often. :D

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #17 of 44
The ground at Alta Mesa cemetery just moved ever so slightly.
Edited by jd_in_sb - 11/12/12 at 9:27am

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #18 of 44
$280 M is no chump change. At least it pays for all the lawyers fees. Additionally, moving forward it would all go to the bottom line since there would be little related expenses. This increases margin.

There is an interesting take here:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/999901-apple-s-victory-over-android-what-does-it-mean
post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by farkas View Post

$280 M is no chump change. At least it pays for all the lawyers fees. Additionally, moving forward it would all go to the bottom line since there would be little related expenses. This increases margin.
There is an interesting take here:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/999901-apple-s-victory-over-android-what-does-it-mean

No matter what your position is, there's almost always an a guest post at SeekingAlpha to support it. You'll find advice and "well-supported reasons"  to dump Google or Apple as only going down from here, right alongside another article giving you solid facts backing their best days being ahead of them.

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post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

You see that's the difference between Apple and Microsoft; Microsoft goes about this much more quietly.

APPLE didn't say any of this. A d-bag hit whore analyst talking out of his lower orifice based on zero facts said this. For attention etc. blogs pick up this caca because all things Apple get hits. That's why they drop phrases like 'iPad killer' in headlines for non Apple items -- hit whoring.

Microsoft is no less frequent in the law cases, etc but they don't get the blogs hits. So unless the sitecan shoehorn an Apple reference in the headline there is less posting. That's all.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #21 of 44

"May" pay up to 8$ a phone?  It's probably closer to the 5$ paid to Microsoft (HTC after all, does have a few patents that could be useful to Apple), but regardless, it's a huge softening of Apple's stance, and the 10 year agreement, combined with the MS agreement, means HTC has nothing to worry about for a long time (except their sub-par marketing anyway).  

 

Anyhow, HTC's stock was up the maximum allowed on the Taiwanese market last night, most investors see this news as being great for HTC.  Not to mention, HTC just released a 1080p smartphone in Japan, and are about to release it here.  Could be a good holiday season for HTC.  

post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

I'm speaking generally. The whole Apple infringement thing is way too loud.

From the blogs. For hits.

Microsoft can act without mention because they don't generate hits for the blogs so why waste screen space. Nothing more or less

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

 

Um... analysts reported about the Microsoft deal.

 

Now analysts are reporting about the Apple deal.

 

This isn't an Apple press release... this is Shaw Wu talking to "industry sources."  The exact same as they did with Microsoft.

 

I'm speaking generally. The whole Apple infringement thing is way too loud. I wanted  to know how Microsoft managed to creep around the tech sector, extracting royalties from the Android OEMs and telling them what functions they could include on their phones the (including Samsung) - all without raising a ripple.

 

The answer is of course, Windows. 

 

Many of the companies who make Android phones also make Windows computers. The last thing they want is to risk a sudden and hefty increase in Windows licensing fees. And the rest can't afford a long drawn out battle.

 

If MS tried to force manufacturers to use MS software on phones in order to get MS software on computers -- They'd have Justice all over them in a minute...

 

It is illegal, according to antitrust laws, to tie-in one product with another!

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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

"May" pay up to 8$ a phone?

And may be paying more.

The man is wrong so often that making a completely off base and wrong statement/prediction is known in some circles as 'pulling a Wu'

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


And may be paying more.
The man is wrong so often that making a completely off base and wrong statement/prediction is known in some circles as 'pulling a Wu'

I thought it was "pulling a Munster"1smile.gif

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post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

If MS tried to force manufacturers to use MS software on phones in order to get MS software on computers -- They'd have Justice all over them in a minute...

 

It is illegal, according to antitrust laws, to tie-in one product with another!

 

Right, I'm not explaining myself very well.

 

The Android phone makers who also make Windows PCs will happily pay the Android fee and agree to disable the features that Microsoft tells them to, to protect the price of their Windows license.

 

MS cannot force companies to use their phone software, but there's nothing stopping them from hiking the fees to the likes of Samsung who don't agree to pay the Android fees.

post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

"May" pay up to 8$ a phone?  It's probably closer to the 5$ paid to Microsoft (HTC after all, does have a few patents that could be useful to Apple), but regardless, it's a huge softening of Apple's stance

 

This is no change at all in Apple's stance. They have always sought to negotiate terms with the Android manufacturers and Microsoft, so this is not much of a surprise. My guess is that as well as the license fee, HTC has also agreed not to copy Apple designs in the future (not that they were doing that anyway).

post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

 

trolltalk, galbi, droid, etc.

 

Without them, this place would be like um..... North Korea?

 

Sorry, I have not seen enough of you to counter them here.  To me, they contribute more than all of you combined.

post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Can't be all THAT much.

It all depends how much is Apple paying to HTC per device. Even if Apple is paying less, they do make and sell much more devices, so they can end up actually paying more to HTC than receiving from HTC.

And of course, all this is based on someone's conversation with industry sources who led someone to believe... so there's that.
post #30 of 44
Speaking of trolls, this one is for the iHaters:

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/index.html
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #31 of 44
Originally Posted by Slang4Art 
now-deleted post


I'm sure you believe that was clever. He was using junk logic, which he would normally regard as trolling. Usually he at least has some basis for his statements. The entire "Android is a stolen product" meme has gotten really old.

post #32 of 44

Let me get this straight: For every single one of iPhone/iPad it sells Apple will get at least $100 nett profit, but for evey single one of HTC device sold in lieu of iGadgets- further eroding Apple's market share, Apple will get merely $8. Hm...If Apple is relying so much in this business model then it makes sense that AAPL will continue to plunge like a rock and will continue to under-perform the market in the foreseeable future.

post #33 of 44
And Apple would properly pay $1 per devices sold to HTC, which would get those patents from HTC and level up the payment from HTC. Its net price should be pretty much in single digit millions.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

 

This is no change at all in Apple's stance. They have always sought to negotiate terms with the Android manufacturers and Microsoft, so this is not much of a surprise. My guess is that as well as the license fee, HTC has also agreed not to copy Apple designs in the future (not that they were doing that anyway).

Except this is the first time Apple's demands came down to a reasonable number.  Reports had them asking for $40+ per phone.

post #35 of 44
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
The entire "Android is a stolen product" meme has gotten really old.

 

Yeah, if I supported a company that exists simply because they stole their OS from another company, I'd get sick of hearing about how completely wrong I was, too.

 

Oh, wait, no I wouldn't; I'd just support another company.


Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post
Except this is the first time Apple's demands came down to a reasonable number.  Reports had them asking for $40+ per phone.

 

You (they) don't get to say what "reasonable" is. Either you pay what they want or you don't get to use it. These aren't FRAND-based patents.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yeah, if I supported a company that exists simply because they stole their OS from another company, I'd get sick of hearing about how completely wrong I was, too.

Then it's good that company doesn't exist. 

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post #37 of 44
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
Then it's good that company doesn't exist. 

 

Right, it got purchased a few years back.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #38 of 44

Actually it reached a cross-licensing agreement with Apple several years back rather than being bought out. They're still around, just struggling with their mobile business plans.

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post #39 of 44
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
They're still around, just struggling with their mobile business plans.

 

Poor Android.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #40 of 44

You were referring to Android? Geesh, and I thought it was Microsoft who supposedly copied Apple's OS that was supposedly copied from Xerox PARC. 

 

My apologies. Wonder why Apple hasn't sued Google then? Doesn't Apple always sue just as soon as they're aware of copying or infringement? Heck it's been over 5 years now. It wouldn't be the money trail since Apple wouldn't want money from them anyway. They'd go for an injunction, right?

 

Anyway, nothing to be gained from re-hashing an old story and old claims, so sorry for the interruption. Everyone as you were.1smile.gif


Edited by Gatorguy - 11/13/12 at 10:37am
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