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Paul Krugman - Mr. President, Tank the Economy and be a Hard Partisan!

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

NYTimes

 

Quote:

So President Obama has to make a decision, almost immediately, about how to deal with continuing Republican obstruction. How far should he go in accommodating the G.O.P.’s demands?

 

My answer is, not far at all. Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a “grand bargain” on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

In saying this, I don’t mean to minimize the very real economic dangers posed by the so-called fiscal cliff that is looming at the end of this year if the two parties can’t reach a deal. Both the Bush-era tax cuts and the Obama administration’s payroll tax cut are set to expire, even as automatic spending cuts in defense and elsewhere kick in thanks to the deal struck after the 2011 confrontation over the debt ceiling. And the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession.

 

Nobody wants to see that happen. Yet it may happen all the same, and Mr. Obama has to be willing to let it happen if necessary.

 

You read it from a member of the Democratic brain trust, Obama should let America go into recession rather than actually work in a bipartisan manner.

 

Why does Krugman believe it is okay to harm the economy and the American people? Because in his own mind, the elections that the Republicans won and their position of power in the House isn't legitimate. Talk about someone with blinders on and their head up their own ass.

Quote:
Why? Because Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process.

 

So when Democrats can't get something through the House, that is economic blackmail. When Republicans can't get something through the Senate, they lack the votes to achieve want they want through the normal legislative process. Could anyone ever be in more denial? Could the double standard ever be more clear?

 

Democrats. They aren't just hard partisans. They are out right racists and sexists. They vote their tribe and they do not vote reality. People who note that aren't the ones in denial. They are the ones dealing with reality. Paul Krugman is a clear example of it right here. Republicans have control of the House. That means that their concerns are going to be part of any legislation passed. Krugman made it clear. Tell the tribe their concerns are blackmail, watch their situation get worse and watch the country go into recession and then don't worry about it because the tribe thinking is insular and circular. People will suffer and all you need to do is blame it on Republicans because the President and Senate are never responsible for an outcome. They are never expected to get anything done. There's still suffering to make happen and a finger to point so go ahead and push us off the cliff Mr. President rather than lead and bring us together.

 

Paul Krugman, you are a sicko and clearly get off on the suffering of others. I hope those angry masses find you and your uncompromising, arrogant and uncaring mouth who would sentence them to pain and suffering rather than declare any deal with Republicans as legitimate and worth pursuing.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

NYTimes

 

Quote:

So President Obama has to make a decision, almost immediately, about how to deal with continuing Republican obstruction. How far should he go in accommodating the G.O.P.’s demands?

 

My answer is, not far at all. Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a “grand bargain” on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

In saying this, I don’t mean to minimize the very real economic dangers posed by the so-called fiscal cliff that is looming at the end of this year if the two parties can’t reach a deal. Both the Bush-era tax cuts and the Obama administration’s payroll tax cut are set to expire, even as automatic spending cuts in defense and elsewhere kick in thanks to the deal struck after the 2011 confrontation over the debt ceiling. And the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession.

 

Nobody wants to see that happen. Yet it may happen all the same, and Mr. Obama has to be willing to let it happen if necessary.

 

You read it from a member of the Democratic brain trust, Obama should let America go into recession rather than actually work in a bipartisan manner.

 

Why does Krugman believe it is okay to harm the economy and the American people? Because in his own mind, the elections that the Republicans won and their position of power in the House isn't legitimate. Talk about someone with blinders on and their head up their own ass.

Quote:
Why? Because Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process.

 

So when Democrats can't get something through the House, that is economic blackmail. When Republicans can't get something through the Senate, they lack the votes to achieve want they want through the normal legislative process. Could anyone ever be in more denial? Could the double standard ever be more clear?

 

Democrats. They aren't just hard partisans. They are out right racists and sexists. They vote their tribe and they do not vote reality. People who note that aren't the ones in denial. They are the ones dealing with reality. Paul Krugman is a clear example of it right here. Republicans have control of the House. That means that their concerns are going to be part of any legislation passed. Krugman made it clear. Tell the tribe their concerns are blackmail, watch their situation get worse and watch the country go into recession and then don't worry about it because the tribe thinking is insular and circular. People will suffer and all you need to do is blame it on Republicans because the President and Senate are never responsible for an outcome. They are never expected to get anything done. There's still suffering to make happen and a finger to point so go ahead and push us off the cliff Mr. President rather than lead and bring us together.

 

Paul Krugman, you are a sicko and clearly get off on the suffering of others. I hope those angry masses find you and your uncompromising, arrogant and uncaring mouth who would sentence them to pain and suffering rather than declare any deal with Republicans as legitimate and worth pursuing.

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

 

It would seem that your definition of "compromise" is to let the Democrats decide what will be done and have the Republicans say "yes".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

.

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

 

If after 8 years of Obama, they still want to blame Bush or the party that controlls one half of one branch of the government, then the tribe will get what they deserve. In the meantime, you have Paul Krugman calling for the destruction of the U.S. economy in the name of advancing a partisan agenda. That should be terrifying to you and everyone else.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

.

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

 

If after 8 years of Obama, they still want to blame Bush or the party that controlls one half of one branch of the government, then the tribe will get what they deserve. In the meantime, you have Paul Krugman calling for the destruction of the U.S. economy in the name of advancing a partisan agenda. That should be terrifying to you and everyone else.

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

.

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

 

If after 8 years of Obama, they still want to blame Bush or the party that controlls one half of one branch of the government, then the tribe will get what they deserve. In the meantime, you have Paul Krugman calling for the destruction of the U.S. economy in the name of advancing a partisan agenda. That should be terrifying to you and everyone else.

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

Exactly. However certain parties here who seem to reflect a far right attitude keep on trying to portray the situation that way.  It's got to be on or off. Far left or far right. If you ask me if they don't start to modify that attitude in government they won't be in government very long. Only as long as the voters continue to tolerate it. And that patience is waining fast.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

.

This may happen anyway. The way the Republicans have conducted themselves is deplorable. And trumpy the voters are starting to notice. So who do you think they'll blame? Obama doesn't have to change his tactics which have been full of compromise. All that has to happen is the Republicans keep on doing what they've been doing.

 

 So if those guys want to keep their jobs ( and the GOP wants to stop being looked on as out of touch and the party of  " No " to the peril of their support )  they'd better stop making excuses for what just happened in the last election and compromise. It's the only way. It doesn't mean all the rhetorical shit that Limbaugh pontificates it just means they'll have to stop saying no to everything that isn't in their agenda or their idea. They have to give a little on the issues. They have to compromise. That's it in a nutshell. Don't believe me? As I said before the last election just watch and see.

 

If after 8 years of Obama, they still want to blame Bush or the party that controlls one half of one branch of the government, then the tribe will get what they deserve. In the meantime, you have Paul Krugman calling for the destruction of the U.S. economy in the name of advancing a partisan agenda. That should be terrifying to you and everyone else.

Well as muppetry said Krugman doesn't represent the government. And if you don't believe that the GOP is sliding into an abyss of their own making by being obstinate you're just not paying attention. If they start to lose support ( they already have really ) that will happen long before the end of Obama's term in office. All they have to do is drop the extreme viewpoint and compromise. Up until now that doesn't seem to be their strong suit.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

 

Krugman doesn't make policy but he does help make opinion and attempt to move public sentiment.

 

Since having a majority of that public opinion or sentiment gives certain people the right to make those decisions, it is appropriate to discuss those who help craft or form it. I'm not suggestiong to censor them or anything like that but they are worthy of our focus. Politicians like President Obama will take action and cite for validity, economists like Paul Krugman.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

 

Krugman doesn't make policy but he does help make opinion and attempt to move public sentiment.

 

Since having a majority of that public opinion or sentiment gives certain people the right to make those decisions, it is appropriate to discuss those who help craft or form it. I'm not suggestiong to censor them or anything like that but they are worthy of our focus. Politicians like President Obama will take action and cite for validity, economists like Paul Krugman.

 

He might possibly do that, but then I think you should hold fire on your criticism until he does. This line of attack is as unreasonable as those on the left attacking Romney because of Limbaugh's opinions.

post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

 

Krugman doesn't make policy but he does help make opinion and attempt to move public sentiment.

 

Since having a majority of that public opinion or sentiment gives certain people the right to make those decisions, it is appropriate to discuss those who help craft or form it. I'm not suggestiong to censor them or anything like that but they are worthy of our focus. Politicians like President Obama will take action and cite for validity, economists like Paul Krugman.

 

He might possibly do that, but then I think you should hold fire on your criticism until he does. This line of attack is as unreasonable as those on the left attacking Romney because of Limbaugh's opinions.

 

First, we had and continue to have all manner of false outrage here conflating one statement by one person as the platform for the entire Republican party. That said, I believe around 90% of the criticism I levied was directly at Krugman.

 

Broader than that, and addressing the criticism beyond that though, I don't think I ever claimed that it was the position of the President at all. What we do have is a large number of Democrats declaring that they are "reality-based" though and about "hard numbers" and using those and additional rationales to excuse themselves from the regular rules of logic and public discourse. Rush Limbaugh as an example is villified for calling one woman a slut. Paul Krugman declares people can die on the vine for political gain and the criticism amounts to crickets.

 

Do you defend his statements rather than asking us to ignore them? Do you repudiate them?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Luckily, Krugman does not make policy decisions. It might be better to focus on the views of the elected politicians who have to make this work than on the left or right wing political commentators.

 

Krugman doesn't make policy but he does help make opinion and attempt to move public sentiment.

 

Since having a majority of that public opinion or sentiment gives certain people the right to make those decisions, it is appropriate to discuss those who help craft or form it. I'm not suggestiong to censor them or anything like that but they are worthy of our focus. Politicians like President Obama will take action and cite for validity, economists like Paul Krugman.

 

He might possibly do that, but then I think you should hold fire on your criticism until he does. This line of attack is as unreasonable as those on the left attacking Romney because of Limbaugh's opinions.

 

First, we had and continue to have all manner of false outrage here conflating one statement by one person as the platform for the entire Republican party. That said, I believe around 90% of the criticism I levied was directly at Krugman.

 

Broader than that, and addressing the criticism beyond that though, I don't think I ever claimed that it was the position of the President at all. What we do have is a large number of Democrats declaring that they are "reality-based" though and about "hard numbers" and using those and additional rationales to excuse themselves from the regular rules of logic and public discourse. Rush Limbaugh as an example is villified for calling one woman a slut. Paul Krugman declares people can die on the vine for political gain and the criticism amounts to crickets.

 

Do you defend his statements rather than asking us to ignore them? Do you repudiate them?

 

I think that Krugman's article was inflammatory and his suggestions poor. But, as I said, those are just his opinions, and the world is full of opinions that I disagree with on both the left and the right. If your intent with this thread is just to attack Krugman's article, then have at it - you will get little disagreement from me. If you are trying to suggest that his article somehow equates to Obama's intentions, then I'll disagree again.

 

I can't comment on false outrage over Limbaugh, but the same applies - his views cannot be taken to represent Republican thinking unless the party endorses them. On the contrary, I think that many Republicans found the comment in question to be highly offensive and objected strongly. I suspect that you did too. In comparison, Krugman's personal economic advice may be poor but it is hardly offensive, so if you are expecting everyone to rush to condemn it then you will be disappointed.

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