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The Illusion of Choice

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

Democrats and Republicans are more alike and agree on more things than most of their supporters want to admit.

 

This thread is dedicated to posting links and information that show how we, the people, are being played by a small elite and given the illusion of choice between two major parties that are in reality, two sides of the same Statist coin.

 

Let's start with this:

 

Democrats Like a Romney Idea on Income Tax

 

Quote:
With both parties positioning for difficult negotiations to avert a fiscal crisis as Congress returns for its lame-duck session, Democrats are latching on to an idea floated by Mitt Romney to raise taxes on the rich through a hard cap on income tax deductions.
 
The proposal by Mr. Romney, the Republican presidential nominee, was envisioned to help pay for an across-the-board income tax cut, a move ridiculed by President Obama as window dressing to a “sketchy deal.” But many Democrats now see it as an important element of a potential deficit reduction agreement — and one they can claim to be bipartisan.
 
The cap — never fully detailed by Mr. Romney — is similar to a longstanding proposal by Mr. Obama to limit income tax deductions to 28 percent, even for affluent households that pay a 35 percent rate. But a firm cap of around $35,000 would hit the affluent even harder than Mr. Obama’s proposal, which has previously gotten nowhere in Congress.
 
“Let’s just say there’s a renewed interest,” said Senator Kent Conrad, Democrat of North Dakota and chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. “Part of it is people reflecting on Obama’s proposal, but when Romney said what he said, it just added fuel.”
 
“I was a little surprised Romney proposed a dollar cap when he did it,” Mr. Conrad added.
 
The attention on the plan is evidence that ideas on deficit reduction are beginning to take firmer form as the January deadline for dealing with expiring tax cuts and automatic spending reductions draws close. The lame-duck session that begins Tuesday could be one of the most pivotal in years, and the political atmosphere is considerably different than when lawmakers left in October for the fall campaigns.
 
President Obama has been re-elected convincingly. Democrats, once in danger of losing control of the Senate, instead gained at least one seat. House Republicans held control, but as many as 16 incumbents lost, including some of the party’s most uncompromising voices, like Representatives Joe Walsh of Illinois and Allen B. West of Florida, who refuses to concede his seat despite his continuing deficit in the vote count. The somber mood among Republicans could ease negotiations to avert more than $500 billion in automatic spending cuts and tax increases.
 
“The worst time to work together on a bipartisan basis is right before an election,” said Representative Jeb Hensarling of Texas, chairman of the House Republican Conference. “The best time to work on a bipartisan basis is right after an election.”

 

Click on the link for the full article.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #2 of 7

That sounds fantastic, and unless you believe the trickle down lie, although it won't solve every problem, it's one step that can be taken to close the revenue gap. To anyone except the trickle down folk and "all taxes are evil" folk it looks like a good idea.

post #3 of 7

I love the language leftists use: "Revenue gap"

 

It always about not confiscating enough private wealth. They just want more. Always more. And they will get it by force. It's never really about a "spending surplus."

 

And they accuse others of greed.

 

These guys are priceless.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #4 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I love the language leftists use: "Revenue gap"

 

It always about not confiscating enough private wealth. They just want more. Always more. And they will get it by force. It's never really about a "spending surplus."

 

And they accuse others of greed.

 

These guys are priceless.

 

The thing is - all taxation can be called confiscation of private wealth. Unless you take the view (as you do, I believe) that there should be no government spending, then taxation is an unavoidable process that underpins the workings of every nation in the world. It's not a "leftist" thing - it (including the revenue gap) is a problem for all governments of all political persuasions, and all that remains to be debated is how much tax to levy and how to distribute the burden.

 

So by all means keep touting your libertarian principles, but if you keep posting this kind of stuff it really just suggests that you are just a Republican pretending not to be.

post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

The thing is - all taxation can be called confiscation of private wealth.

 

Yes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

It's not a "leftist" thing - it (including the revenue gap) is a problem for all governments of all political persuasions, and all that remains to be debated is how much tax to levy and how to distribute the burden.

 

Actually, no, that's not all that needs to be debated. The leftist problem is the assumption that there is only one side: Revenue, while ignoring the spending side. Also, even we accept your premise that taxes are a necessary thing, then there is also the debate of how much taxation is enough or appropriate.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #6 of 7
Thread Starter 

Now Obama Lavishes Praise on Romney

 

Quote:
With the election over, President Barack Obama lavished praise on Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney at today's press briefing:
 
 
"There are certain aspects of Governor Romney's record and his ideas that I think could be very helpful," said Obama. "Well, and to give you one example, I do think he did a terrific job running the Olympics."
 
Obama added, "He presented some ideas in the course of the campaign that I actually agree with."
 
During the campaign, praise from Obama for Romney was hard to come by.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

The thing is - all taxation can be called confiscation of private wealth.

 

Yes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

It's not a "leftist" thing - it (including the revenue gap) is a problem for all governments of all political persuasions, and all that remains to be debated is how much tax to levy and how to distribute the burden.

 

Actually, no, that's not all that needs to be debated. The leftist problem is the assumption that there is only one side: Revenue, while ignoring the spending side. Also, even we accept your premise that taxes are a necessary thing, then there is also the debate of how much taxation is enough or appropriate.

 

The issue of how much tax to levy is inextricably related to how much revenue to spend, for both left and right. I'm inclined to make the generous assumption that you are just being provocative in suggesting that left-wing governments do not address both, but feel free to argue otherwise.

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