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Apple has talked with cable companies about 'new TV product,' but launch not imminent - Page 4

post #121 of 167
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post
sorry bud, we know what he "publicly said". Which has no bearing on the reality of the situation.
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post
1.) public comments are just that, so much smoke. 

 

So Apple is lying when they say they sold three million iPads in three days. And when they say they settled the patent dispute with HTC. And when they say Steve Jobs resigns as CEO. And when they say they announced the iPhone 5. And when they say they announced the iPad mini.

 

I'm literally just pulling titles from their PR page. These have no bearing on reality and are smoke, according to you.


Originally Posted by nht View Post
/s

 

We're weeks out. You cannot possibly say this. 

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post #122 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So Apple is lying when they say they sold three million iPads in three days. And when they say they settled the patent dispute with HTC. And when they say Steve Jobs resigns as CEO. And when they say they announced the iPhone 5. And when they say they announced the iPad mini.

I'm literally just pulling titles from their PR page. These have no bearing on reality and are smoke, according to you.

We're weeks out. You cannot possibly say this. 

It's only lies when they're convenient. What's funny is that people say SJ lied to misdirect the competition yet he was asked about the 7" tablet because that's exactly what the competition was already doing.
Edited by dasanman69 - 11/18/12 at 2:14pm
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post #123 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's only lies when they're convenient. What's funny is that people say SJ lied to misdirect the competition yet he was asked about the 7" tablet because that's exactly what the competition was already doing.

No, he told the truth about 7" tablets, but did not reveal ("covered up" would probably be more your phrase) that they were more impressed with an 8" iPad. He was steering buyers and jounalists away from 7-inchers, and the competition away from the 8-inch truth.

No lying was involved.
post #124 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Have they really failed? While they not selling as well as iPads they are being purchased in decent amounts.

It's been 2 years since Jobs made that comment. Which of those 7" tablets are selling in decent amounts? HP Slate? Nope. RiM PlayBook? Nope.

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post #125 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Love this idea!

Hate this idea. The Channel Store
Unnecessary idea. iTunes already has individual shows. Sure the timing, pricing etc needs work but the beginnings are there.

As for Channels, if they were to open up the Apple TV to user selected apps within select categories then ABC etc could release an app and set up their own service akin to Netflix/Hulu right out of the existing App Store. No need for a new division

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #126 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's been 2 years since Jobs made that comment. Which of those 7" tablets are selling in decent amounts? HP Slate? Nope. RiM PlayBook? Nope.

Oh those 2, then yes DOA lol
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post #127 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Unnecessary idea. iTunes already has individual shows. Sure the timing, pricing etc needs work but the beginnings are there.
As for Channels, if they were to open up the Apple TV to user selected apps within select categories then ABC etc could release an app and set up their own service akin to Netflix/Hulu right out of the existing App Store. No need for a new division

You gotta remember Hulu is already a NBC/FOX/ABC app.
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post #128 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

No, he told the truth about 7" tablets, but did not reveal ("covered up" would probably be more your phrase) that they were more impressed with an 8" iPad. He was steering buyers and jounalists away from 7-inchers, and the competition away from the 8-inch truth.
No lying was involved.

I don't believe that for a second.
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post #129 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I don't believe that for a second.

Belief or disbelief not an option. I stated the facts of the situation: what was going on, what happened, what he said. If you find the facts unacceptable, then present your alternate-universe view.
post #130 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So Apple is lying when they say they sold three million iPads in three days. And when they say they settled the patent dispute with HTC. And when they say Steve Jobs resigns as CEO. And when they say they announced the iPhone 5. And when they say they announced the iPad mini.

 

I'm literally just pulling titles from their PR page. These have no bearing on reality and are smoke, according to you.

 

uh I think you missed the point of what I was referring to. basically that he said they would not do the small tablet all the while perfecting their version of it.  

post #131 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Unnecessary idea. iTunes already has individual shows. Sure the timing, pricing etc needs work but the beginnings are there.
As for Channels, if they were to open up the Apple TV to user selected apps within select categories then ABC etc could release an app and set up their own service akin to Netflix/Hulu right out of the existing App Store. No need for a new division

All the iTunes shows are purchase only though.

I would be against channels, virtual or nonlinear because that still ties shows together in bundles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's been 2 years since Jobs made that comment. Which of those 7" tablets are selling in decent amounts? HP Slate? Nope. RiM PlayBook? Nope.

Maybe Fire, but Amazon isn't saying how many they sell, so it's hard to say. It's possible that mini sold more in a weekend than several competitors combined in the last year.
post #132 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


I'd go along with you on the new definition of tablet, but I'd say that the new mini palm device is the real Pad, and the old 10-incher is the Tablet.
Anyway, holding the computer in one hand—one you can read on— is a fundamentally new experience, and should be recognized as a separate device category. If the medium is the message, the package is the experience.

Brilliant. agreed.

post #133 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Belief or disbelief not an option. I stated the facts of the situation: what was going on, what happened, what he said. If you find the facts unacceptable, then present your alternate-universe view.

I believe SJ felt a certain way while others at Apple felt differently, Eddy Cue's email is proof of that. Plans for the iPad mini were probably set in motion after SJ's departure.
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post #134 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Maybe Fire, but Amazon isn't saying how many they sell, so it's hard to say. It's possible that mini sold more in a weekend than several competitors combined in the last year.

The Fire didn't exist when Steve Jobs made the qualified comment referred to current 7" tablets being DOA. I felt it was a clear sign that Apple was looking into smaller tablets when he restricted his comment about 7" tablets to refer to the current ones.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #135 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post

uh I think you missed the point of what I was referring to. basically that he said they would not do the small tablet all the while perfecting their version of it.  

Of course he missed the point that it's only a lie when it's convenient for you. One lie begets another and another, when do we know when it's a lie and when it isn't?
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post #136 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I believe SJ felt a certain way while others at Apple felt differently, Eddy Cue's email is proof of that. Plans for the iPad mini were probably set in motion after SJ's departure.

Looking over the timing of Jobs's comments and Cue's email, it looks like you could be right. I've compressed the events in my memory, thinking they'd need much more than a year to get a new design like the mini out.

It seems they did it in about a year and a half, if they didn't start on it until after Cue's Jan. 2011 email.
post #137 of 167
Looking at the iPad Mini issue, it is sufficiently close to 8 " to make it not a 7 " device. As JeffDM remarked above, it rather fits into a "Goldilocks zone" - which could be said to be defining new category within tablets.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any recorded comment of SJ's regarding 8 " tablets - and I don't think that's splitting hairs.

On the other hand it's possible that the uses - new or existing - to which the iPad Mini is put, could define whether it is in another category than just '8 " tablet' (but that's pure speculation on my part).
post #138 of 167
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Unnecessary idea. iTunes already has individual shows. Sure the timing, pricing etc needs work but the beginnings are there.

 

Yes, but they don't have simultaneous-with-broadcast download, day-of shows. The show should actually start to download a few minutes before it's available to be played, that way you can automatically play it (on your Apple TV or wherever!) exactly when it's on TV.


That, I think, is a feature worthy of the Apple name.


Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post
uh I think you missed the point of what I was referring to. basically that he said they would not do the small tablet all the while perfecting their version of it.  

 

Then why did you say the point was that nothing Apple says publicly can be trusted?

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post #139 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes, but they don't have simultaneous-with-broadcast download, day-of shows. The show should actually start to download a few minutes before it's available to be played, that way you can automatically play it (on your Apple TV or wherever!) exactly when it's on TV.

That, I think, is a feature worthy of the Apple name.

Then why did you say the point was that nothing Apple says publicly can be trusted?

Why not just watch it when it's being broadcast on TV? The closest thing to your suggestion is on HBO GO, shows are available for viewing after its broadcast, which has me curious. Can someone in California (west coast) watch Boardwalk Empire on HBO GO once it's broadcast in New York (east coast) 2 hours before it's broadcast in their time zone?
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post #140 of 167
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Why not just watch it when it's being broadcast on TV?

 

The idea is to not pay however much per month for hundreds of channels you couldn't care less about and instead have only exactly the shows you want, no watermarks, no ads, and actual ownership thereof, available at any time, viewable anywhere, and freely redownloadable.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #141 of 167
There are three cable channels that I would watch. - UKTV, History and Discovery. As we had to subscribe to at least two packages (maybe three) to get them, we decidedthat it wasn't worth it. And not long after that, we had digital terrestrial aerial installed: the reception was so good that we cancelled the single cable package that we had (which had none of the above cannels) and haven't looked back.

If individual channels could be unbundled as TS suggests above we would seriously consider subscribing to that sort of setup.
post #142 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yes, but they don't have simultaneous-with-broadcast download, day-of shows. The show should actually start to download a few minutes before it's available to be played, that way you can automatically play it (on your Apple TV or wherever!) exactly when it's on TV.


That, I think, is a feature worthy of the Apple name.

 

Then why did you say the point was that nothing Apple says publicly can be trusted?

I should have been clearer in that they can not be trusted as to what they are working on. again, redirect, obfuscate, then amaze the world. maybe the term lie was a bit too strong??? 

post #143 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post

I should have been clearer in that they can not be trusted as to what they are working on. again, redirect, obfuscate, then amaze the world. maybe the term lie was a bit too strong??? 

Does it really matter what you call it? It's still the same thing.
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post #144 of 167
Could apple just be creating a DVr with a built in Apple TV.
post #145 of 167
I thought that when Steve made that comment about 7-in tablets, one of the main complaints about them were the resolution. The deciding on one resolution for 7-in then having to recreate them for 10-in tablets, or stretching the image. The introduction of the Retina iPad then allowed them to create a 7-in with the same resolution as the none Retina iPads, minimizing any disruption to the developers.
post #146 of 167
Originally Posted by Kendog52404 View Post
I thought that when Steve made that comment about 7-in tablets, one of the main complaints about them were the resolution.

 

Usable screen size. I don't recall anything about resolution.

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post #147 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

...and instead have only exactly the shows you want, no watermarks, no ads....

But what will happen if those revenues are killed? Will the money simply go from the broadcasting companies > content creators and now from Apple > content creators?
post #148 of 167
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
But what will happen if those revenues are killed?

 

So you don't think content creators make money on every instance of everything sold in the iTunes Store? What revenue is being killed?

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post #149 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So you don't think content creators make money on every instance of everything sold in the iTunes Store? What revenue is being killed?

I guess those of the channels. You and I don't care about video channels, but the media conglomerates don't want to undermine those channels.
post #150 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So you don't think content creators make money on every instance of everything sold in the iTunes Store? What revenue is being killed?

Question is will they make what they're making now?
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post #151 of 167
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
I guess those of the channels. You and I don't care about video channels, but the media conglomerates don't want to undermine those channels.

 

They'll be fine with it if they make the same or better money through digital services.

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post #152 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They'll be fine with it if they make the same or better money through digital services.

I think it's an open question whether it provides the same revenue. Last I've heard, not so much.
post #153 of 167
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
I think it's an open question whether it provides the same revenue. Last I've heard, not so much.


Lower revenue, larger volume, boom.

 

And they don't have to stop offering broadcast TV. This would be additional revenue. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to overlook that, given that it's all they really care about.

 

As more people drop broadcast for digital, they can deal with it.

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post #154 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Lower revenue, larger volume, boom.

And they don't have to stop offering broadcast TV. This would be additional revenue. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to overlook that, given that it's all they really care about.

As more people drop broadcast for digital, they can deal with it.

I'm not seeing larger volume making up for the lower revenue for web video. People watch a lot of video as it is, I don't think a lot of growth in audience will happen.
post #155 of 167
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
I'm not seeing larger volume making up for the lower revenue for web video. People watch a lot of video as it is, I don't think a lot of growth in audience will happen.

 

Growth in paid audience is the idea.

 

Did more people get music digitally after the iTunes Music Store was announced, or did many pirates just move to iTunes?

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post #156 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Growth in paid audience is the idea.

Did more people get music digitally after the iTunes Music Store was announced, or did many pirates just move to iTunes?

I don't know the answer to that. There are parallels, but the two markets can be very dissimilar too. I don't think either the current sales model (Apple) or the current streaming model (Netflix) will do the job. I hope Apple introduces something different.
post #157 of 167
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
I don't know the answer to that. There are parallels, but the two markets can be very dissimilar too. I don't think either the current sales model (Apple) or the current streaming model (Netflix) will do the job. I hope Apple introduces something different.

 

Sure, sure. 

 

Oh! I didn't post this here, did I?!


Originally Posted By Tallest Skil View Post

The content creators getting their collective heads out of their collective rears and doing something intelligent for once in their existence.

 

And I'm not just talking about intelligent content (seeing as a percentage of television that is within the margin of error below 0% is actually intelligent and worthwhile today, and not a "reality" pile of zarkin' nonsense). I'm talking about an intelligent system for monetizing streaming.

 

See, there's a huge difference in broadcast and streaming media. Broadcast is just that, broadcast. It's out there, buy an antenna, tune it right, and boom, content. Streaming demands a hard connection between the two ends. It's called bandwidth, and that's limited. It's a lie, but it's "limited". And so they treat it as though it's a non-renewable resource. The content creators need to help the content providers pay for increasing that to the point at which it doesn't matter. It's their responsibility as much as it is the ISPs'.

 

Anyway, it's more expensive, so they don't want to do it. But streaming can be monetized incredibly easily, in one of two ways. Either treat it exactly like broadcast content in payment, allowing users to record shows as they play, storing them safely in the provider's proprietary hardware (which is lame like my leg after it has been crossed for too long) or disallow live consumer recording but offer a "Would you like to buy this episode/game/movie?" option right after it has aired."

 

That was a great football game! I wanna see it again. Hey, $2.99 for an HEVC-encoded, ad-free, DRM-free, watermark-free, full-length (with pre- and post-game commentary), chapterized file of the game? I think yes!"

 

Wow. Look at that. Not only have I captured the impulse buying demographic at a price they'll love ($3-7 for sports games, $2 for TV show episodes, $5-10 for movies), I've earned these idiots a tidy little profit on EVERY UNIT OF WHAT THEY SELL. And after that, all they have to do is build out the fiber needed to take 'bandwidth' from a "non-renewable" to an irrelevant factor and they'll have even more money.

 

Now, for live stuff, it couldn't be an immediate download. Say within 24 hours, giving them time to package the stuff, edit it, and add chapters (for example, sports games would be chaptered pre-commentary, quarter, quarter, quarter, quarter, post commentary, minimum; with other—and differing—chapters as necessary).

 

Quote image link leads to its off-site context. Bolded content added here, since I just thought of it.

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post #158 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sure, sure. 

Oh! I didn't post this here, did I?!

Quote image link leads to its off-site context. Bolded content added here, since I just thought of it.

Given that $2 TV show episodes aren't going gangbusters right now, I don't know how keeping the same price is going to solve anything. If they'd at least get season pass bundles down to $1/episode, then I might consider that.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/21/12 at 10:30am
post #159 of 167
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
Given that $2 TV show episodes aren't going gangbusters right now, I don't know how keeping the same price is going to solve anything. If they'd at least get season pass bundles down to $1/episode, then I might consider that.

 

Oh, aren't they? All right; kick it down further, then. But we're talking 1080p episodes here. I guess the goal would be to get them the same price as the physical copies.

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post #160 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Growth in paid audience is the idea.

Did more people get music digitally after the iTunes Music Store was announced, or did many pirates just move to iTunes?

The thing is that there is already many paid (and cheaper) alternatives that people are already using and accustomed to.
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