or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple's Australian arm charged with $28.5M in back taxes
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's Australian arm charged with $28.5M in back taxes - Page 2

post #41 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post

Yes one of the reasons Australia has virtually no foreign debt is efficient tax collection, and a level of tax that pays its way. 21 years since the last recession, they must be doing something right.

 

Digging up rocks and selling them to China.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Digging up rocks and selling them to China.

Hell yeah. Here in WA (Western Australia ie. the West third of the country for the yanks) most people think we're paying for the rest of the country.
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Digging up rocks and selling them to China.

Actually no, the entire Australian mining industry contributes less than 6% of Australia's GDP. (In 1900 it was 10%.)

It's a significant export earner certainly (making up a little over a third of Australia's total exports), but by no means as significant as many people seem to think (thanks in no small part to an industry that is well practised at blowing it's own horn). Less than 2.5% of the workforce is in mining.

As has been the case forever, Australians (like Americans and most other industrial nations), sell most most of what they produce to themselves. And most of what they produce isn't iron ore, coal and minerals.
post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

Hell yeah. Here in WA (Western Australia ie. the West third of the country for the yanks) most people think we're paying for the rest of the country.

As so often is the case "most people" are wrong.
post #45 of 66
I love how people like to use GDP statistics to try and prove their point (which boils down to we don't need those filthy miners, as the economy is really built on public school teachers, public relations firms, solar panel installers and lattes).

Fact is, if it wasn't for the mining boom, the Australian economy would look very european. And the only point of the european economies seems to be to make the american one look not as bad as it really is.
It's the heat death of the universe, my friends.
Reply
It's the heat death of the universe, my friends.
Reply
post #46 of 66
The Australian government is doing anything it can to claw back revenue, as its a wasteful, socialist government hell bent on taxing everything from cigarettes, fast food,and alcohol out of existence. There's a meme going about that's says, "that's looks like fun........ Let me tax that for you". They're now looking at placing a 10% tax on anything bought over the net. Their solution to the teenage binge drinking issues, is to tax low cost alcohol and wine. All this while its Prime Minister who was once a union lawyer, is suspected of stealing $400,000 dollars of union funds back in the 1990's, while sleeping around with married men, who were high powered union leaders at the time. All her conspirators have been given positions on the high court or heads of work place regulators, and jobs as overseas ambassadors. And you Americans think you have a leadership problem?
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post

Yes one of the reasons Australia has virtually no foreign debt is efficient tax collection, and a level of tax that pays its way. 21 years since the last recession, they must be doing something right.

I think you need to take your blinkers off when you read the balance of trade figures buddy. Australia is in debt to the tune of $165 billion dollars. Where do you think they borrow the money from? The money fairy? Considering we had a surplus of $43 billion back in 2007 should ring alarm bells anywhere. The carbon tax has nothing to with the environment, it's a guilt trip designed to gouge $11 billion out of the public to prop up its deficit. Effective tax collection, god that makes me laugh. You can't live in Australia without a tax affecting every part of your life. "That looks like fun......... Let me tax that for you". The chicken are coming home to roost, and we will be in the tish, just like the rest of the western world. Enjoy your distorted reality while it lasts.
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post


I think you need to take your blinkers off when you read the balance of trade figures buddy. Australia is in debt to the tune of $165 billion dollars. Where do you think they borrow the money from? The money fairy? Considering we had a surplus of $43 billion back in 2007 should ring alarm bells anywhere. The carbon tax has nothing to with the environment, it's a guilt trip designed to gouge $11 billion out of the public to prop up its deficit. Effective tax collection, god that makes me laugh. You can't live in Australia without a tax affecting every part of your life. "That looks like fun......... Let me tax that for you". The chicken are coming home to roost, and we will be in the tish, just like the rest of the western world. Enjoy your distorted reality while it lasts.

 

You say $165bn like it's a bad thing, but it represents about 10% of Australia's GDP, or about half of the Australian Government's tax receipts. However, http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-debt-to-gdp paints a slightly different picture.

 

Nevertheless it's within historical bounds, and it doesn't mean a lot. Australia is right up there with Bulgaria in terms of national debt, so there's no need to freak out. Well, I'd freak out about the relentless pursuit of a budget surplus, which in the end will be a paper one only, if at all. But national debt is hardly the boogeyman people make it out to be,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Table:_International_debt_comparisons

 

And the 2007 surplus? So what? Economies are cyclical. Govt spending goes up when the shit hits the fan - it's counter cyclical. 

post #49 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

The Australian government is doing anything it can to claw back revenue...

...They're now looking at placing a 10% tax on anything bought over the net.

There is nothing wrong with levelling the playing field, so the 10% GST introduced by Howard, which honest retailers have to pay, doesn't put them at a disadvantage.

How many more retailers have to go under, how many more workers do they have to lay off, until you are satisfied?..

...but what the hey, as long as you can keep importing cheap shit from China.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

I think you need to take your blinkers off when you read the balance of trade figures buddy. Australia is in debt to the tune of $165 billion dollars. Where do you think they borrow the money from? The money fairy? Considering we had a surplus of $43 billion back in 2007 should ring alarm bells anywhere. The carbon tax has nothing to with the environment, it's a guilt trip designed to gouge $11 billion out of the public to prop up its deficit. Effective tax collection, god that makes me laugh. You can't live in Australia without a tax affecting every part of your life. "That looks like fun......... Let me tax that for you". The chicken are coming home to roost, and we will be in the tish, just like the rest of the western world. Enjoy your distorted reality while it lasts.

I remember when Keating brought in the first surplus after decades of deficits.

All a surplus shows the Government is not spending money on the people who provided it.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dshan View Post


As so often is the case "most people" are wrong.

 

But before that - the rest of Australia was propping up WA - and you forgot about the vast mines in Queensland - Oh, yeah... and the fact the WA has some of the laziest working hours in Australia. - JUST SAYING...

post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

The Australian government is doing anything it can to claw back revenue, as its a wasteful, socialist government hell bent on taxing everything from cigarettes, fast food,and alcohol out of existence. There's a meme going about that's says, "that's looks like fun........ Let me tax that for you". They're now looking at placing a 10% tax on anything bought over the net. Their solution to the teenage binge drinking issues, is to tax low cost alcohol and wine. All this while its Prime Minister who was once a union lawyer, is suspected of stealing $400,000 dollars of union funds back in the 1990's, while sleeping around with married men, who were high powered union leaders at the time. All her conspirators have been given positions on the high court or heads of work place regulators, and jobs as overseas ambassadors. And you Americans think you have a leadership problem?

Socialist? Australia spends less on Welfare to GDP than America does? Socialist? You're an idiot. 

post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh View Post

But before that - the rest of Australia was propping up WA - and you forgot about the vast mines in Queensland - Oh, yeah... and the fact the WA has some of the laziest working hours in Australia. - JUST SAYING...

LOL yeah don't get me wrong, I am not from WA itself, it's interesting seeing how things play out. I've now lived in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. Really interesting. I hope to get my Aust. citizenship in 3 years time when I qualify for it.
post #54 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh View Post

Socialist? Australia spends less on Welfare to GDP than America does? Socialist? You're an idiot. 

We also might actually have more liberties than certain parts of the US. Hold on to this for dear, dear life.
post #55 of 66
Let's see: Apple's paying 1.9% on revenue in company tax and ATO calculates they should have paid 2.5%.. "not that big of a deal" (as SJ would have said) in the bigger picture.

The Oz gov gets a lot of money from the 10% GST (value-added tax included in the ticket price), but which is refunded if you carry the device overseas within a month of purchase (so if it's a 3k purchase, you effectively get $300 off the price of your travel ticket. Wonderbar!)
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post


LOL yeah don't get me wrong, I am not from WA itself, it's interesting seeing how things play out. I've now lived in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. Really interesting. I hope to get my Aust. citizenship in 3 years time when I qualify for it.

UK? Whatever! Join the crew! Dual citizenship is the way to go if you've got the required immigration 'points'. 

 

Enz in Brisbane

post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Digging up rocks and selling them to China.

Hell yeah. Here in WA (Western Australia ie. the West third of the country for the yanks) most people think we're paying for the rest of the country.

We end up buying some of those rocks back value-added by a considerable margin.
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Digging up rocks and selling them to China.

Hell yeah. Here in WA (Western Australia ie. the West third of the country for the yanks) most people think we're paying for the rest of the country.

We also end up buying some of those rocks back value-added by a considerable margin. (Where the financial balance might fall, I don't know, however.)
Edited by AlexN - 11/18/12 at 10:09pm
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzos View Post

Let's see: Apple's paying 1.9% on revenue in company tax and ATO calculates they should have paid 2.5%.. "not that big of a deal" (as SJ would have said) in the bigger picture.
The Oz gov gets a lot of money from the 10% GST (value-added tax included in the ticket price), but which is refunded if you carry the device overseas within a month of purchase (so if it's a 3k purchase, you effectively get $300 off the price of your travel ticket. Wonderbar!)

the suggestion, often touted by tax avoiding firms, that the government receives sales taxes from their trade is a poor defence given that the average person would have spent that money on another product that is subject to sales tax.

post #60 of 66

The irony is that the likes of apple, amazon, Starbucks and google, with their elaborate tax avoiding "scams", are too short sighted to see that by only caring about their shareholders, they potentially risk not having a market to sell to in the first place. It is those taxes that they avoid paying that enable their future customers to go to school, to get the job that will provide them sufficient income to be able to afford their wares in the first place. Do they care, nope, they can just free load off the indigenous firms that will, in time, have to subsidise them through even higher taxes. this will reduce the profits of the honest firms and allow the cheats to turn to their shareholders and say "look at us, we made billions in profit, we must be better than the rest". 

post #61 of 66
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
The irony is that the likes of apple, amazon, Starbucks and google, with their elaborate tax avoiding "scams", are too short sighted to see that by only caring about their shareholders, they potentially risk not having a market to sell to in the first place. It is those taxes that they avoid paying that enable their future customers to go to school, to get the job that will provide them sufficient income to be able to afford their wares in the first place. Do they care, nope, they can just free load off the indigenous firms that will, in time, have to subsidise them through even higher taxes. this will reduce the profits of the honest firms and allow the cheats to turn to their shareholders and say "look at us, we made billions in profit, we must be better than the rest". 

 

So you're saying that eventually all people smart enough to use a computer will be dead, preventing any online sales to be made, bankrupting all these companies, all because they are using legal loopholes in tax code and not giving every cent they have to the government?

 

1000

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Or maybe they can retroactively change the law. The UK did it.

 

 

The ATO has vast and far reaching powers, it is possible that they could make a retroactive change.  I don't think its very likely though.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Funny how I as an individual am capable of taking advantage of tax loopholes every single year.

 

 

I seriously doubt that you could take advantage of tax loopholes that reduce your overall tax bill to less than 2%.  Unless of course you're on welfare?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Do you really want 70% tax on everything?

 

If all companies paid a "Fair amount of tax" then the pool of money would be a lot larger, and therefore the tax burden as a percentage of income could be less on each company.  Except those that currently pay an obscenely low amount of tax of course.

 

If all world governments cracked down on these loopholes, then the net tax revenue could increase dramatically.  Some countries who are currently having cash flow issues, might find that they go from hot water to merely warm.

 

 

post #63 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Wrong.

You want to pay more taxes than legally necessary, or what you believe is to be "fair", go right ahead if you feel the need to get all gung-ho about it. No one will stop you.

If you don't do everything, and anything you can do to minimize your tax liability in a legal, government-authorized way then the only person you can blame is ignorance, whom will then point the finger right back at you.

Now the details of this article is lacking, but in general terms Apple (or any other corporation) did nothing wrong or illegal.  Blame the governments.  They approve and make laws.  

 

Absolutely, Apple and these other mega corporations are required to maximise profit for shareholders.  Its their corporate duty to do so.

 

Minimizing tax is just one way.

post #64 of 66
Originally Posted by Likkie View Post
I seriously doubt that you could take advantage of tax loopholes that reduce your overall tax bill to less than 2%.  Unless of course you're on welfare?

 

See, if the tax code was reformed to increase taxes, putting considerably more pressure on those on welfare, I'd be fine with a few increases across the board. But nearly anyone can take advantage of any loophole in their category.

 

If all companies paid a "Fair amount of tax" then the pool of money would be a lot larger…

 

Except you don't get to define that, is all.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #65 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzos View Post

UK? Whatever! Join the crew! Dual citizenship is the way to go if you've got the required immigration 'points'. 

Enz in Brisbane

Why thank you for the welcome. Unfortunately though I will have to give my birth country the big fat finger (and gladly so, I hope, when the time comes) ... aka "screw you Malaysia!". I can't even cast a postal vote for the Malaysian election next year because no one trusts its security.

As for the UK, after three months in London I realise why certain poms in oz are somewhat...[insert evaluation here].
post #66 of 66
The issue in Australia is the Henry Review sorted out what the tax problems in Australia are and how to make things generally fairer, whether you're left, right, upside or down. Problem is the government hasn't implemented ~most~ of the recommendations. AFAIK.

There's talk of "class warfare" but mostly the recommendations are to simplify things, get rid of negative gearing and what nots.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple's Australian arm charged with $28.5M in back taxes