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Apple notifies Messages beta users that service will end on Dec. 14

post #1 of 35
11/16/12 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 
In an email to users on Friday, Apple reminded Messages beta program participants that the preview period will end on Friday, Dec. 14, noting that the service will then only be available on OS X Mountain Lion.

AppleInsider Jim was first to note the upcoming closure, which brings the OS X 10.7 Lion preview service to an end.

iMessages Beta End


Apple first introduced Messages beta for Mac in February, bringing cross-platform messaging support for OS X and iOS. As a replacement for the previous iChat application, Messages beta was meant to bridge the gap between Apple's computers and portable devices with "Messages Everywhere," a feature that allows users to start a conversation on one machine and move seamlessly to another.

In June, Apple cut off downloads for the beta in preparation of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, which replaced the beta service with the dedicated Messages application.

The email points out that users must upgrade to Mountain Lion in order to keep using the service.
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post #2 of 35
11/16/12 at 3:19pm

This sounds obviously logical to me. But I hope there's improvements coming to Messages itself, as it's definitely buggy, particularly coming out of sleep.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #3 of 35
11/16/12 at 3:37pm
If Apple is upgrading Messages in such a way that it will no longer run on Lion, and have no intention of upgrading Lion, then I get it. Otherwise it seems to amount to little more than extortion. Mountain Lion will not run on a whole selection of recent Macs, meaning more than just a simple inexpensive upgrade for some. So why do it? Why not allow Lion users who have been successfully using an integrated Messages app to continue to do so? Who does it hurt? Plus it keeps this kind of communication in the Apple ecosystem. Will Lion users be able to downgrade back to iChat? Not having been involved in the beta program, were users notified at the beginning it was limited and would eventually be forced to upgrade? When Apple choses not to support a particular feature on older equipment, I get it, but to take away something that is otherwise supported just doesn't feel right.
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post #4 of 35
11/16/12 at 3:54pm
That is just positively dickish. What if you have hardware that is not supported by Mt Lion? I suppose you are supposed to 'upgrade' your hardware too?!?!?!?!
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post #5 of 35
11/16/12 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

Messages works fantastic for me. I use it to text my family on their iPhones and to talk to my co-workers in another town who are using Live Messenger (using the Cocoon plug-in). It all integrates together perfectly.

 

It's still very buggy for me and the people I message with it.  Especially on multiple devices.  Often half of the messages go to one device or another and the rest go somewhere else.  

banned: patpatpat, TEKSTUD, Rot'nApple, JerrySwitched26, iSheldon, DaHarder, Flaneur, Pendergast, thataveragejoe 

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post #6 of 35
11/16/12 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry91403 View Post

That is just positively dickish. What if you have hardware that is not supported by Mt Lion? I suppose you are supposed to 'upgrade' your hardware too?!?!?!?!

 

Seriously?  Your position is pretty weak here.  You've been using a beta.  You should expect it to go away someday, or to cost you something some day.  

 

Also, you don't *have* to use it there are many alternatives.  In fact you weren't "supposed" to use it really since a beta is for testers, not for daily use.  

banned: patpatpat, TEKSTUD, Rot'nApple, JerrySwitched26, iSheldon, DaHarder, Flaneur, Pendergast, thataveragejoe 

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post #7 of 35
11/16/12 at 4:30pm
What was 'Messages'!?

Didn't even know it existed.......
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post #8 of 35
11/16/12 at 5:41pm
On a slight tangent, Messages is very good at basic messaging. It is incredibly unreliable for syncing between iDevices, however.
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post #9 of 35
11/16/12 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus View Post

On a slight tangent, Messages is very good at basic messaging. It is incredibly unreliable for syncing between iDevices, however.

Up until recently you couldn't add your phone number to the Mac or iPad Messages app for iMessages.

That meant that if you were using an iPhone and didn't use your email address as the ID then all new messages you created would be sent from your phone number as an ID to the iMessages server and you'd get responses that only targeted your iPhone.

Now that is all (finally) taken care of and you can choose on every platform how you want the default to be sent, and which account IDs will receive the iMessages. However, there are other hiccups and quirks but at least that part seems to have been finally resolved.

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post #10 of 35
11/16/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Up until recently you couldn't add your phone number to the Mac or iPad Messages app for iMessages.
That meant that if you were using an iPhone and didn't use your email address as the ID then all new messages you created would be sent from your phone number as an ID to the iMessages server and you'd get responses that only targeted your iPhone.
Now that is all (finally) taken care of and you can choose on every platform how you want the default to be sent, and which account IDs will receive the iMessages. However, there are other hiccups and quirks but at least that part seems to have been finally resolved.

I'm aware of all that, and I think it was a really good move to converge messaging between devices. As marketed, it's great. But from my experience (iPhone/iPad) and my wife's experience (iPhone/Mac) it is very buggy. Other users probably have much more favourable experience with it.
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post #11 of 35
11/16/12 at 6:50pm
Does this mean that Messages under Mountain Lion will magically become something other than a poorly-conceived, incoherent, difficult-to-configure, confusing, bug-riddled mess? Or is it just that we're supposed to pretend that removing "beta" from the name somehow elevates the application to something deserving of having been released?

Increasingly, Apple follows the time honored Microsoft model%u2026 "Let marketing determine the features and pick the release date. We can always try to fix it later if anyone notices it's trash."

Ooops, sorry, never mind, put that down%u2026 %uF8FF is Good. %uF8FF is Great. Long live %uF8FF.
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post #12 of 35
11/16/12 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

It's still very buggy for me and the people I message with it.  Especially on multiple devices.  Often half of the messages go to one device or another and the rest go somewhere else.  

This is exactly what happens to me. What you would expect is that it would work the same as iCloud e-mail, which is that incoming messages go to ALL the devices. But with Messages, if it is running and someone texts me, it hijacks the incoming text and only displays it in Messages; the text never comes to the iPhone.  I have to be sure to close Messages when I know I'll be away from my Mac or I miss all my texts. WTF, Apple? Fix the darn thing before you start taking it away from people.

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post #13 of 35
11/16/12 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

This is exactly what happens to me. What you would expect is that it would work the same as iCloud e-mail, which is that incoming messages go to ALL the devices. But with Messages, if it is running and someone texts me, it hijacks the incoming text and only displays it in Messages; the text never comes to the iPhone.  I have to be sure to close Messages when I know I'll be away from my Mac or I miss all my texts. WTF, Apple? Fix the darn thing before you start taking it away from people.

I haven't seen that issue. What I have seen since the original Messages for Mac beta is the SW get smarter about communicating with each other, as it should be.

If I am using my Mac with my iPhone near me my iPhone will not get a sound notification (and I don't think a visual one on the lock screen) of a new iMessage if I read it in the Messages for Mac app within a short time frame. If I don't then my phone will also make the sound and show the message.

I'd like this to extended even further so that when my phone and Mac are on the same WiFi network (bonjour could easily achieve this) my phone will turn off other services automatically and when they are not on the same network then the phone will auto-engage other functions. Kind of like the new DnD feature but proximal and more intelligent.

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post #14 of 35
11/16/12 at 8:37pm

This is a dick move.

At this rate, with each new speed bump of the latest Apple product they will stop supporting parts of the OS on all older hardware?

Although, since they increasingly don't bother to finish and polish their software anyway, by that time most Mac users are unlikely to notice, having moved on!

 

Stop the games Apple.

Concentrate on building and maintaing foundation, walls, roof, and subsystems of OS X. And stop already with the constant repainting, furniture arranging, and stressing over whether to use an ogee or dental molding!

"Real" artists ship "real" products that "really work!"

 

[Case in point. I don't think any version of pages Pages has ever printed and envelope properly on my HP CLJ 2550n! I have to feed the envelopes in backwards.]

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post #15 of 35
11/16/12 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

This is a dick move.
At this rate, with each new speed bump of the latest Apple product they will stop supporting parts of the OS on all older hardware?
Although, since they increasingly don't bother to finish and polish their software anyway, by that time most Mac users are unlikely to notice, having moved on!

Stop the games Apple.
Concentrate on building and maintaing foundation, walls, roof, and subsystems of OS X. And stop already with the constant repainting, furniture arranging, and stressing over whether to use an ogee or dental molding!
"Real" artists ship "real" products that "really work!"

[Case in point. I don't think any version of pages Pages has ever printed and envelope properly on my HP CLJ 2550n! I have to feed the envelopes in backwards.]

It was and has remained a Beta app in Lion. It was not part sold as part of the OS and it was never sold as a stand alone app. I can't fathom why you'd think this was a dick move after they stopped offering the DL back in June (so about 6 months ago) and ML has been available for months.

You don't have to like it and I'm sure you et al. have plenty of reasons why you wish it would stay active on Lion but that doesn't mean Apple grant your wish. I would wager that cutting it off means that they simply aren't investing in Lion frameworks and we'll see iMessages retooled to resolve many of the intermittent and consistent issues that have been creeping up. If that is the case and they can extra people on dealing with iMessage better for the majority instead of for a few people still on Lion that actually use it then I'm going to side with dropping Lion support. This is not a Sophie's Choice decision here.

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post #16 of 35
11/16/12 at 8:55pm
Originally Posted by larry91403 View Post
That is just positively dickish. What if you have hardware that is not supported by Mt Lion?

 

Then you don't get to have it. JUST like every single other software upgrade in the history of computing. Somehow this is a foreign concept to you?


 I suppose you are supposed to 'upgrade' your hardware too?!?!?!?!

 

Tech changes; get over it.


Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post
This is a dick move.

At this rate, with each new speed bump of the latest Apple product they will stop supporting parts of the OS on all older hardware?

 

"How dare someone turn off a beta for which I'm not paying and am not supposed to be using if I didn't understand the terms of use. I am rightfully outraged, and I will sue and win. What I will win… is… as yet unknown."

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #17 of 35
11/16/12 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Then you don't get to have it. JUST like every single other software upgrade in the history of computing. Somehow this is a foreign concept to you?

 

Tech changes; get over it.

 

"How dare someone turn off a beta for which I'm not paying and am not supposed to be using if I didn't understand the terms of use. I am rightfully outraged, and I will sue and win. What I will win… is… as yet unknown."

There's no reason this upgrade needs to be restricted to ML

This is not a hardware issue

Actually I have paid for ML and am using it. But it annoys me that Messages is not backward compatible to iChat on Lion (as it could easily be.) And it has been a PITA to use compared to iChat as well.  

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post #18 of 35
11/16/12 at 10:11pm
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post
There's no reason this upgrade needs to be restricted to ML

 

I'm in complete agreement! But that's for Apple to decide.

 

Who says they won't offer it as a paid download in the Mac App Store? They're trying to hit a balance between updating to Mountain Lion and getting marketshare for iMessage. I don't think cutting off Lion users is the right way to go, but then again Apple probably couldn't care less if their services are actually used.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #19 of 35
11/16/12 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

. . .  but then again Apple probably couldn't care less if their services are actually used.

 

But that is exactly the problem.

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post #20 of 35
11/17/12 at 3:12am
They used people to test the service and now to thank them who don't have ML they force them to upgrade.
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post #21 of 35
11/17/12 at 6:56am

To people emphasizing that this was a beta: It was a public beta. And with all blogs and news sites reporting about it the moment it was available, it was pretty much like a new OS X app release. And you know what? OS X Lion users really used it. And what kind of company beta tests an application on a OS version that will not eventually be supported?

 

Well, as mentioned before, this could be released in the Mac App Store as a paid app, à la FaceTime on Snow Leopard. I guess this will not happen.

 

How can possibly terminating the beta, convince people to upgrade to ML is beyond logic. I would suppose that people who wanted to upgrade have already done so, or will do eventually. But what about people who cannot? It is not a hardware issue obviously, just shitty marketing tactics.

 

To me, this looks like proof that one should not rely on such Apple services.

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post #22 of 35
11/17/12 at 8:40am
What about people who have Sl and want to stay on SL? They can't communicate anymore?
But well, it doesn't matter. Google provides "the better service", just as with Apple Maps.

GTalk. For when Apple Messages goes out of Beta.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #23 of 35
11/17/12 at 9:40am
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
What about people who have Sl and want to stay on SL? They can't communicate anymore?

 

What's SI? Oh, a lower-case L? No, this has nothing at all to do with Snow Leopard. Read the article.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #24 of 35
11/17/12 at 12:12pm
Can't Apple just release iMessage on Lion and maybe even Snow Leopard? Not everyone can upgrade to Mountain Lion.

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post #25 of 35
11/17/12 at 12:39pm
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
Can't Apple just release iMessage on Lion and maybe even Snow Leopard? Not everyone can upgrade to Mountain Lion.

 

Of course they can. Whether they will is another issue (it's not happening).

 

I get the feeling that Apple's desktop OS (not OS X, future) is going to be free for two upgrades. Then your computer won't be able to run it anymore and you'll have to buy a new one to get newer software. That's three years of software updates. Most people are fine with this, even if they keep using their computers for twice that time or longer.

 

I'm not fine with it in the slightest, and I keep and use my computers for twice that time and longer, but I'm in the minority so they couldn't care less about that.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #26 of 35
11/17/12 at 11:45pm
Seriously, anyone else think Snow Leopard was the last all around good, generally bloat-free version of OS X?
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post #27 of 35
11/18/12 at 1:15am
I got upgrade burnout with Lion, although I must say that 10.7.5 actually seems a lot better than its 10.7 predecessors. I have seen and read nothing to persuade me to install 10.8 as yet. There was a supposed memory leak fix (for Lion and ML) but as I haven't been able to confirm it so far I've decided not to risk it. I may even end up waiting to see what Sir Jonathon, et al., come up with.
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post #28 of 35
11/18/12 at 6:54am
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
Seriously, anyone else think Snow Leopard was the last all around good, generally bloat-free version of OS X?

 

That's like saying System 7 was the last "good" version of Mac OS.

PhilBoogie
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post #29 of 35
11/18/12 at 7:51am

Apple is fragmenting its very own platform.

Users typically own iPhones, iPads and Macs that are not of the same age. Some of those can't be upgraded to the latest software, for various reasons (performance, memory space, or otherwise). Now we have Facetime, iMessage, iChat, each of which is only supported on some devices. Because of this it has become hard to communicate, even between owners of Apple devices. 

 

I am afraid people in the end will flock to less desirable solutions, such as Skype or Google whatever.

Today I see fewer of my friends in iChat. People are just tired of waiting.

Not only is Apple fragmenting its own platform, it will also be missing a window of opportunity to gain support for their communications solutions.

 

The same goes for ePubs. Apple doesn't even let you read ePubs THAT YOU OWN on the Mac (they have DRM, but the ePubs are YOURS).

Neither can you read ePubs that have NO DRM (you may import them into iTunes, but you can't read it on a Mac without resorting to e.g. conversion to pdf (using Calibre, Stanza, Adobe's ePub Reader)

 

Tim Cook, please tell us how we can explain our way around these hurdles to PC users who need to be persuaded that the Mac ecosystem is better (Everything "just works" is becoming a thing of the past).

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post #30 of 35
11/18/12 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

Apple is fragmenting its very own platform.
Users typically own iPhones, iPads and Macs that are not of the same age. Some of those can't be upgraded to the latest software, for various reasons (performance, memory space, or otherwise). Now we have Facetime, iMessage, iChat, each of which is only supported on some devices. Because of this it has become hard to communicate, even between owners of Apple devices.

Bullshit.

Quote:
I am afraid people in the end will flock to less desirable solutions, such as Skype or Google whatever.
Today I see fewer of my friends in iChat. People are just tired of waiting.
Not only is Apple fragmenting its own platform, it will also be missing a window of opportunity to gain support for their communications solutions.

Again, bullshit.
Quote:
The same goes for ePubs. Apple doesn't even let you read ePubs THAT YOU OWN on the Mac (they have DRM, but the ePubs are YOURS).
Neither can you read ePubs that have NO DRM (you may import them into iTunes, but you can't read it on a Mac without resorting to e.g. conversion to pdf (using Calibre, Stanza, Adobe's ePub Reader)

Once again, bullshit.
Quote:
Tim Cook, please tell us how we can explain our way around these hurdles to PC users who need to be persuaded that the Mac ecosystem is better (Everything "just works" is becoming a thing of the past).

1) Bullshit.

2) It's likely Cook doesn't read Apple-centric forums. If he did then I would worry about Apple's direction. Perhaps you should try complaining to him in an email titled "The sky is falling."

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post #31 of 35
11/18/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

Can't Apple just release iMessage on Lion and maybe even Snow Leopard? Not everyone can upgrade to Mountain Lion.

That would be mostly owners of six year old computers, right? My understanding that it's largely the 2006 Macs that aren't supported by ML.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

Seriously, anyone else think Snow Leopard was the last all around good, generally bloat-free version of OS X?

I'm sure you'll find some people that believe that, but probably not a lot. I don't understand where you get that. My experience has been the OS works better than before overall. Maybe wait until a x.x.1 update so the worst of the bugs are handled.
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post #32 of 35
11/18/12 at 5:07pm

So all you can bring to the discussion is "bullshit?" Not very convincing.

 

I mostly agree with VanFruniken. And it's totally fricking crazy that we can't read iBooks on multiple platforms, and all the more so that we can't read them on our Macs!

You seems to think the sky has to fall before anyone can point out Apple's dick moves, (or at the very least, moves that are not in the interests of the Mac users?)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Bullshit.
Again, bullshit.
Once again, bullshit.
1) Bullshit.
2) It's likely Cook doesn't read Apple-centric forums. If he did then I would worry about Apple's direction. Perhaps you should try complaining to him in an email titled "The sky is falling."
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post #33 of 35
11/18/12 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

So all you can bring to the discussion is "bullshit?" Not very convincing.

I mostly agree with VanFruniken. And it's totally fricking crazy that we can't read iBooks on multiple platforms, and all the more so that we can't read them on our Macs!
You seems to think the sky has to fall before anyone can point out Apple's dick moves, (or at the very least, moves that are not in the interests of the Mac users?)

What he stated simply wasn't accurate. It's tiring to correct everything right off the bat so by putting up a Stop Sign I might be able to get the OP to rethink there comment before replying.

I figure both you and him are in the same boat as you see ePub and interpret that as iBookstore nooks. There is no iBooks for the Mac and that sucks. I've lambasted Apple on many occasion on this forum for its exclusion. So what again do I seem to think when I've wished for, requested, and disagreed with Apple's apathy toward iBooks or an iBookstore book reader in Preview, iTunes, or some other app on the Mac?

I've even noted how much of a hassle it is to use iBooks Author to create a book and then have to export it to an iPad before you can even test it because they don't even have e "simulator" for that app on the Mac.

There are plenty of apps you can run that will open ePUB format which makes the OP's comment axiomatically wrong.

To drive this point home even more, here is a list of more than 10 ePub readers for the Mac and one that is sold on the Mac App Store:

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post #34 of 35
11/19/12 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


What he stated simply wasn't accurate. It's tiring to correct everything right off the bat so by putting up a Stop Sign I might be able to get the OP to rethink there comment before replying.
I figure both you and him are in the same boat as you see ePub and interpret that as iBookstore nooks. There is no iBooks for the Mac and that sucks. I've lambasted Apple on many occasion on this forum for its exclusion. So what again do I seem to think when I've wished for, requested, and disagreed with Apple's apathy toward iBooks or an iBookstore book reader in Preview, iTunes, or some other app on the Mac?
I've even noted how much of a hassle it is to use iBooks Author to create a book and then have to export it to an iPad before you can even test it because they don't even have e "simulator" for that app on the Mac.
There are plenty of apps you can run that will open ePUB format which makes the OP's comment axiomatically wrong.
To drive this point home even more, here is a list of more than 10 ePub readers for the Mac and one that is sold on the Mac App Store:

 

Well that's the part I didn't agree with him on. But it struck a chord with me because of the issue with iBooks, which I picked up in my post.

 

As far as fragmentation, UX, and "it just works," I agree with him.

And all the recent issues with iCloud and Messages just underlines my point that Apple has putting flash before function for the last year or two. I hope the recent executive shakeup signals a new approach.

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post #35 of 35
11/19/12 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Well that's the part I didn't agree with him on. But it struck a chord with me because of the issue with iBooks, which I picked up in my post.

As far as fragmentation, UX, and "it just works," I agree with him.
And all the recent issues with iCloud and Messages just underlines my point that Apple has putting flash before function for the last year or two. I hope the recent executive shakeup signals a new approach.

You and him say it's all fragmented and another group of posters claim that OS X is being "dumbed down" and turned into iOS. The reality is not as extreme as either group claims. OS X has been made more familiar thus reducing UI variances between the OSes that make it make it confusing for longtime iOS users that are new to OS X.

iMessages was first added to iDevices as a substitute for SMS. Once iOS 5 dropped and pretty much everyone I knew had updated I called AT&T and not only had my 200 SMS at $5 per month stopped but had SMS removed from my account completely. We later got the Messages app and iMessages service on Macs but why is this fragmentation when SMS wasn't already a default app and service on Macs. I wish they would have offered it sooner, I wish they would have done a better job at bringing it, and I wish they wouldn't have taken so long on listing the number/addresses you can be reached at and sent from between devices... but that is showing Apple is working to bring it all together not break it all apart as you claim.

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