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Windows 8 sales fall short of Microsoft's internal projections

post #1 of 149
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Initial sales of the Windows 8 operating system are said to be "well below" Microsoft's internal projections.

Citing a "trusted" source, Paul Thurott of Supersite for Windows said Windows 8 is off to a weak start, but Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.

That disappointment with Microsoft's PC partners is said to have further reaffirmed the company's strategy with the new Surface tablet, which is the first computer designed and manufactured by the company itself.

Thurott surmises that the initial disappointment of Windows 8 is related to a number of issues, including a slumping economy, confusing range of device types, and the touch-centric interface of Windows 8 Metro.

"The net effect of all this stuff, I think, contributes to a wait-and-see approach with Windows 8," he said. "And that is exactly the opposite of what Microsoft and even the broader industry should want at this time."

Windows 8


Word of disappointing Windows 8 sales came after it was announced that the head of the project, Steven Sinofsky, was leaving the company. Reports have said he was ousted by Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer, who allegedly had the backing of company co-founder and former CEO Bill Gates.

Sinofsky's departure has been compared to the recent purported firing of Scott Forstall from Apple. Forstall was in charge of Apple's flagship iOS operating system found on the iPhone and iPad, but also oversaw the transition to iOS 6 and Apple's new Maps application, which was regarded as a disappointment.
post #2 of 149
Quote:
...but Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.

That's true but MS has no one to blame but itself for positioning the Win OEMs to race to the bottom for scraps.

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post #3 of 149
Microsoft to OEM: Its not us, its you! lol

So, I guess we will see MS making their own computers soon as well. After the shift to making their own phones, tablets, and computers MS will rename themselves, Pear.

When I picture Ballmer and Gates, I see this brash a hole getting what he wants and Gates doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. Sinofsky shouldn't have been fired, Ballmer should be. What good thing has he done since taking over?
post #4 of 149
Slumping economy? Yet every single apple product blows the doors off the store? The fact is that MS has a heavy reliance on corporate users. Windows 8 is not a business friendly OS... much like everything between XP and 7. Our company (a large bank) used XP until early this year when we started upgrading to 7. I asked our tech guys about 8 and they said that most of our software providers don't plan to support it or create software for it.
post #5 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoda View Post

Microsoft to OEM: Its not us, its you! lol
So, I guess we will see MS making their own computers soon as well. After the shift to making their own phones, tablets, and computers MS will rename themselves, Pear.
When I picture Ballmer and Gates, I see this brash a hole getting what he wants and Gates doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. Sinofsky shouldn't have been fired, Ballmer should be. What good thing has he done since taking over?

But what will happen to HP, Dell, etc?

post #6 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoda View Post

…Sinofsky shouldn't have been fired, Ballmer should be. What good thing has he done since taking over?

Balmer seems to be one of the world’s richest incompetent idiots!

post #7 of 149
It's a BIG transition for PC owners. I remember when Apple went to OS X from OS 9 in the early 2000s.

A LOT of people HATED OS X - because it meant buying ALL new software and OS X was REALLY buggy. I know - I was at HP using a Mac G3 Tower doing design work for HP.

And then came the jump of OS X from G3/G4/G5 Macs to Intel Macs.

So can't ring the death knell for Windows 8 quite yet.
From the looks of it, all the pre-black Friday sales of Win8 PCs are pretty much sold out - I'm watching the Best Buy ones right now.

This one will be a slow-upswing.
post #8 of 149

No~. An OS with a worse usability change than Vista and uglier, more complicated UX than Bob isn't doing well? 

 

Stop. The. Presses.

 

Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post
A LOT of people HATED OS X - because it meant buying ALL new software…
 

Subtle, bu~t I still caught it.

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post #9 of 149

I went right out and bought a couple copies of Win 7 OEM just to have around for any new office PCs we might need in the future. I certainly don't want to be stuck having to deal with Win 8 from the looks of it.

 

I haven't actually gone down to the Microsoft Store to try it, but I don't think people are going to respond very well to such a radical change even if it is a slight improvement. Most Windows users are ok with the way Windows was. They have learned to get around the interface just fine.  

 

Most Windows people don't usually upgrade their machines anyway so Windows 8 sales are going to be almost exclusively new PCs and we've been hearing for a year or more that PC sales are down.

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post #10 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

…Sinofsky's departure has been compared to the recent purported firing of Scott Forstall from Apple. Forstall was in charge of Apple's flagship iOS operating system found on the iPhone and iPad, but also oversaw the transition to iOS 6 and Apple's new Maps application, which was regarded as a disappointment.

Wouldn’t it be nice to read a piece that didn’t contain a reference to iOS 6 maps?

post #11 of 149
Windows 8 RT or whatever it is called makes no sense. Backwards compatibility to legacy apps was the saving grace of Windows 8, and that doesn't have it.
post #12 of 149
They release a radically changed user interface and they think their OEMs are to blame for poor uptake. Naturally. To make their cognitive dissonance even stronger, the recent crop of hardware looks fine, some of it looks very nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

Slumping economy? Yet every single apple product blows the doors off the store?

It might be fair to say that the typical buyers of Windows computers may be in a more vulnerable economic position than typical Mac buyers.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/19/12 at 2:10pm
post #13 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoda View Post

Microsoft to OEM: Its not us, its you! lol
So, I guess we will see MS making their own computers soon as well. After the shift to making their own phones, tablets, and computers MS will rename themselves, Pear.
When I picture Ballmer and Gates, I see this brash a hole getting what he wants and Gates doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. Sinofsky shouldn't have been fired, Ballmer should be. What good thing has he done since taking over?

I guess you don't have young children, the Pear is already taken by iCarly. Lol

http://icarly.wikia.com/wiki/Pear_Company
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post #14 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

It's a BIG transition for PC owners. I remember when Apple went to OS X from OS 9 in the early 2000s.
A LOT of people HATED OS X - because it meant buying ALL new software and OS X was REALLY buggy. I know - I was at HP using a Mac G3 Tower doing design work for HP.
And then came the jump of OS X from G3/G4/G5 Macs to Intel Macs.
So can't ring the death knell for Windows 8 quite yet.
From the looks of it, all the pre-black Friday sales of Win8 PCs are pretty much sold out - I'm watching the Best Buy ones right now.
This one will be a slow-upswing.

 

The OS9 - OSX transition was not a major UI paradigm shift like Microsoft is planning with their new UI formerly know as Metro which doesn't offer any advantages and adds many drawback over Windows 7 for non-touch PC.

 

Microsoft is going the wrong way to force the Touch oriented UI on desktop computer, I fail to see any value in a window less Windows 8 for workstation and heavy duty applications.


Edited by BigMac2 - 11/19/12 at 2:04pm
post #15 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

Wouldn’t it be nice to read a piece that didn’t contain a reference to iOS 6 maps?

But this gives me the opening to tell my first iOS maps story.  This past weekend I had to travel an hour (and across state lines) to a co-worker's house warming party.  I used the Map app on my iPhone 4s, and it compared favorably to my experience using a stand-alone GPS and was an improvement over the pre-iOS 6 Map app.  We got there on time without any confusion.  A collegue who was traveling a similar route got there late and complained about Google maps having them "exit route 270 for 0.1 miles and then getting right back on" before directing them to real exit when it came up*.  Score: iOS 6 Map 1, Google Maps 0.

 

*My theory was that Google was directing them around a dead skunk in the road, but it could have just been a map bug.

post #16 of 149

'Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.'

 

That's right, instead of blaming your newly restyled OS, blame everyone else. Despite the hardware designs looking like their previous Win 7, & MacBook Air (inspired by Intel???) look-a-like counterparts.

 

Every time I see a PC running Win 8, I think it looks like it's a toy aimed at young kids, with all those primary coloured blocks.

post #17 of 149
It's hard to blame a "slumping economy" when your competitor, i.e. Apple, seems to have no problem moving units in the same economy.
post #18 of 149

And the slide into irrelevance continues. 

 

MS is done. The competition's already run away with the market. It's a slow bleed that began years ago. All that money. All that R&D, with barely anything to show for it. Meanwhile Apple with only a fraction of MS' resources, has bitch-slapped them up and down the market for years now. 

 

MS desperately needed Windows 8 and Windows Phone to be huge hits. That's not happening. MS knows how to generate cachet and "cool" like I know how to speak Aramaic. Not happening. MICROSOFT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND INTERFACE DESIGN. This has been the case since Day 1. It took Apple to get the ball rolling for the rest of the industry when it came to UI. This is a key point. MS is all red-tape, administration and colossal inefficiency. An enterprise solutions provider masquerading as a consumer tech company. 

 

Not to mention that that Surface thing doesn't even know whether it's coming or going. 

 

Windows Phone = dud

Surface = dud

Windows 8 = dud

 

Sinofsky didn't leave because he was "hard to work with" or some nonsense like that. He was ALWAYS hard to work with, and yet he's been there forever. He was given the boot because someone at a higher level needed to take the fall for all this failure, because Ballmer sure as hell wasn't going to take any heat. Bet on that situation not lasting very long, though. 

post #19 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

MS knows how to generate cachet and "cool" like I know how to speak Aramaic. 

 

 

LOL 

post #20 of 149

Exactly. PC market isn't about quality or user experience. It's about sales numbers and how low can you go! I too want an inexpensive system, but only to a point that it works..

 

However, Microsoft is also to blame, for forcing a touch-centric OS onto desktops and non-touch laptops. The proverbial toaster+fridge comes to mind on this one.. They REALLY needed to bake Windows 8 UI some more on non-touch based systems.. 

 

They also shot themselves in the foot with 2 releases. x86 and ARM(RT) editions. It has been confusing customers. A tech-head like me gets it, but the average customer only knows one thing.. I want it to work with my stuff. They don't care about the processor architecture, as long as it's fast and does what they need. 

 

There is a reason it's called OS X and iOS.. it's district, obvious, and recognizable that they are different types of systems with different application requirements. 

post #21 of 149

I'm shocked.lol.gif

 

Well, not really, it isn't like anybody didn't predict this, including me, on various past threads here.

 

I've always claimed that many PC users are unsophisticated people who are not accustomed to Touch interfaces or any new, innovative tech. Apple users have been using the best trackpads on the planet for more than a decade now. Making the jump to iOS Touch screen devices was no big deal for Apple users. Microsoft is merely trying to follow along in Apple's footsteps. 

 

How many windows users still use some old, outdated version of Explorer to browse with still? These are not exactly cutting edge people that we're talking about here. There's also the issue that Windows 8 is pretty ugly looking, with those puke worthy color schemes. I also thought that the commercial for the Surface was pretty dumb.

post #22 of 149
Wow, Microsoft has realized that the market is closing the door on them and they gave them a bunch of blocks to try to stop them.

Microsoft did not ease use, they gave more problems.
post #23 of 149
Window 8's biggest competitor isn't OSX - it's Windows 7. Whilst Windows 7 doesn't have the polish of OSX, it's stable, fast and familiar. It's good enough and so people are going to be reluctant to upgrade to any future OS, let alone one as radically different as Windows 8. WIndows 7 is the next XP and it's going to be around for a long time.

Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.
post #24 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. 

 

Whoever came up with that idea is probably the same people that came up with the idea of making a laptop/tablet hybrid that is worse at both things.

 

I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.

post #25 of 149
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though.

 

I find myself occasionally wishing that I could touch the screen in OS X. I still find myself more often thanking that a cursor remains.

 

I find myself never wishing that I had a mouse in iOS. And I'm always glad that I can touch.

 

I find myself perpetually wishing that I could touch the screen in Windows 8. But I'm forced to use a mouse.

 

The differences are interesting.

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post #26 of 149
MSFT is full of it.... Asus makes a Zenbook that is beautiful. MSFT has no one but itself to blame for the low upgrade rate of Windows users.
post #27 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

Wouldn’t it be nice to read a piece that didn’t contain a reference to iOS 6 maps?

 

Here's how it works.

 

Biased report: "World comes to an end."

Unbiased report: "World comes to an end, possibly caused by iOS 6 Maps app failure."

Rinse, Repeat.

post #28 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And the slide into irrelevance continues. 

 

MS is done. The competition's already run away with the market. It's a slow bleed that began years ago. All that money. All that R&D, with barely anything to show for it. Meanwhile Apple with only a fraction of MS' resources, has bitch-slapped them up and down the market for years now. 

 

MS desperately needed Windows 8 and Windows Phone to be huge hits. That's not happening. MS knows how to generate cachet and "cool" like I know how to speak Aramaic. Not happening. MICROSOFT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND INTERFACE DESIGN. This has been the case since Day 1. It took Apple to get the ball rolling for the rest of the industry when it came to UI. This is a key point. MS is all red-tape, administration and colossal inefficiency. An enterprise solutions provider masquerading as a consumer tech company. 

 

Not to mention that that Surface thing doesn't even know whether it's coming or going. 

 

Windows Phone = dud

Surface = dud

Windows 8 = dud

 

Sinofsky didn't leave because he was "hard to work with" or some nonsense like that. He was ALWAYS hard to work with, and yet he's been there forever. He was given the boot because someone at a higher level needed to take the fall for all this failure, because Ballmer sure as hell wasn't going to take any heat. Bet on that situation not lasting very long, though. 


I disagree. Win 7 is pretty good. Maybe needs more polish all the way through, but its good and better than OS X in some ways. MS does get UI.

 

I just installed Win 8 on my MacBook Pro. I like the interface. I like the look. But it is tricky navigating around. They need to work on that, but otherwise, Win 8 is fine and is refreshing to look at instead of OS X from time to time.

 

Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas). BTW, I prefer and love my iPhone 4S and can't wait for iPhone 5/6. I looked at Windows phone, but the hardware - nothing beats the iPhone now. And I hear the Windows phone is heavy partially due to coils for the inductive charging.

 

These are not dud products.

post #29 of 149

Personally, I think this is Thurott trying to get some advertising hits on his site.  He becomes irrelevant when Windows becomes irrelevant.

 

I think he's realized that any anti-MS  posting he makes drives his revenue up...;-)

 

That said, I would have predicted sales to be low, for one and only one reason... iPad.  

post #30 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Window 8's biggest competitor isn't OSX - it's Windows 7. Whilst Windows 7 doesn't have the polish of OSX, it's stable, fast and familiar. It's good enough and so people are going to be reluctant to upgrade to any future OS, let alone one as radically different as Windows 8. WIndows 7 is the next XP and it's going to be around for a long time.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.

 agree.

 

I'm currently consulting at 2 organizations just starting their Win7 conversions.  Over 40,000 desktops switching to Win7.  Win8 is still early adopter hell for corporations.  and of course, the only reason you would choose windows at home is because you're used to it at work or like what you have... neither of which is a reason to upgrade to Win8.

 

My guess is OSX will eventually support iOS apps, but the UI will be distinctly OSX/touchpad.  and Mac apps will never evolve to iOS.  

post #31 of 149
Windows 8 is a dud on desktop and its made a cluster**k of windows server 2012 too.
post #32 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TogetherWeStand View Post

'Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.'

 

That's right, instead of blaming your newly restyled OS, blame everyone else. Despite the hardware designs looking like their previous Win 7, & MacBook Air (inspired by Intel???) look-a-like counterparts.

 

Every time I see a PC running Win 8, I think it looks like it's a toy aimed at young kids, with all those primary coloured blocks.

Aren't all PC's of lackluster design? I suppose MS thinks the Surface is not lackluster. Need to only watch the sales numbers carefully (sales to customers not sales to distributors).

post #33 of 149

Got MY copy!.....  

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see below...

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just kidding!  wanted to see people react to thinking I was insane... 1biggrin.gif

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post #34 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

 

Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas).

 

 

When Apple stops absolutely dominating consumer satisfaction for every single iOS device they have ever released, then we can talk. 

 

That's where the rubber hits the road. Google's problem is the Android interface (they've barely got even the basics of touch down), fragmentation, lack of optimization from device to device, and a lower-quality ecosystem. 

 

Google and their OEMs have become volume-pushers. Until Android is brought all under one roof (never), the Android user experience will never equal Apple's. 

 

As for PCs, those who have $1000 to spend are looking at Macs. Apple's captured the top-tier of the market. Macs also dominate in consumer satisfaction year after year, often by a very wide margin. 

post #35 of 149

I read Thurrott's piece about Windows RT vs. Surface and it confused the hell out of me. There are tons of video reviews online that further illustrate the clumsiness of using 8. Funny that it looks pretty good as I walk by the PCs at Costco, but people are having a hard time relearning old habits.

 

My son and I played around with the big box PCs and I was shocked at how flimsy and plasticky the hardware was. It looks cheap, yes. Wait till you start playing around with it. Type on it. Adjust the screen. Move the mouse. Ugh.

post #36 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability....

 

This is a bit rich since Microsoft itself has been unable to release what was supposed to be the flagship device for Windows 8, (the Surface Pro), and isn't expected to do so until January/February next year.  

The Surface RT (which doesn't technically even run Windows 8 but instead runs Windows 8 RT), has itself also been reviewed as "lacklustre."  

 

The irony is so high it threatens to explode the universe. 

post #37 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

It's a BIG transition for PC owners. I remember when Apple went to OS X from OS 9 in the early 2000s.
A LOT of people HATED OS X - because it meant buying ALL new software and OS X was REALLY buggy. I know - I was at HP using a Mac G3 Tower doing design work for HP.
And then came the jump of OS X from G3/G4/G5 Macs to Intel Macs.
So can't ring the death knell for Windows 8 quite yet.
From the looks of it, all the pre-black Friday sales of Win8 PCs are pretty much sold out - I'm watching the Best Buy ones right now.
This one will be a slow-upswing.

Well, MS has about 1 Billion licenses of the variants of Windows (XP, Vista, 7, and now 8). Obviously, Apple can't have 1 Billion computers made within 12 months, but Apple could easiy see 10% of the current Windows users migrating to OS X. OS X is practically bug free, and it only take a couple of minor bug fixes to address those problems. if Apple sees 10% of Windows users switch to OS X laptops/desktops, that could more than double the current number of OS X users. It doesn't implausible for that to happen over the next 12 months. Apple just refreshed the line up, so we'll see what happens. there was a recent survey done by a market research firm and 10% thought that OS X was better, 58% don't plan on migrating to windows 8. That's a lot of potential windows users planning on leaving the platform and there aren't other options other than OS X.
post #38 of 149

Initial projections called for the sale of 11 copies, but the only sold 9 copies.  1biggrin.gif

post #39 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

... I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.

 

I remember when we were switching from command line interfaces to GUIs, and one of the arguments for always needing a DOS prompt was that for some things, using a mouse and the window GUI was awkward and slow.  The fact was though, there were even then, people who not only *could* do everything with the mouse and the GUI, they actually preferred it, and they could get things done just as fast.  those people eventually grew to be more numerous than the CLI guys.

 

IMO history is repeating itself with touch interfaces. Everyone's trying to figure out how to use tablets by attaching keyboards and making special cases or in Microsoft's case, letting you use a mouse.  All the manufacturers are basically pushing what amounts to a hybrid or convertible laptop, (even if the keyboard is separate and communicates by bluetooth).  This is because the number of people who truly "get" the new form factor is still low (most are probably still kids right now) but as before, there are people who don't need or ever want an external keyboard or mouse and can get things done just as fast using only touch

 

It seems likely to me that this group of "touch-only" users has a distinct advantage and will only grow in the future as more and more kids are brought up on this stuff.  

 

Microsoft still hasn't seen this yet, or they just don't believe it if they have.  All the hybrid "it's sorta a tablet but also a PC" stuff is just a temporary stopgap.  the future is touch.

Apple has leaped over them and they still haven't really grokked what's happened.  

post #40 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Not to mention that that Surface thing doesn't even know whether it's coming or going.

Going. Definitely going...

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