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Barack Obama--not fit for public office.

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 

Radical Christian Idiot Barack Obama doesn't know how old the Earth is.    He's clearly not fit for public office.  

 

 

 

 

 

Politicians should make decisions based on evidence.  They should weigh the facts and allow those facts to govern their decision-making process.  What should not happen is facts getting ignored or a false equivalence being created between evidence-based reality and crackpot wishful thinking.  

 

Yet, when asked a very uncontroversial question about how old the Earth is, Barack Obama vomited a gallon of logical fallacies in response.  

 

It does not take a scientist to know the Earth is in the order of billions of years old.  It is well established.  It is common knowledge.  It's not like Obama was asked about the ramifications of the discovery of a Higgs-like particle.  He was asked how old the Earth is.  It's as if he were asked if alcohol could get someone drunk and he responds that he's not a doctor and doesn't feel qualified to answer.  

 

The age of the Earth is not a great mystery.  Not at all.  When the future of our economy depends upon the next generation of scientists and engineers innovating here, spreading this sort of nonsense absolutely will affect our gross domestic product and economic growth.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #2 of 45
Thread Starter 

What, no snarky reply, BR?  Shocker.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #3 of 45

I wasn't even awake yet.  You need more patience.

 

Rubio did more than duck the question.  He said that scientific knowledge has no bearing on the economy.  That's far different from what Obama said.  You are creating a false equivalence.

 

Furthermore, from the Slate article comments:

 

 

 

Quote:
Obama and Rubio were asked two completely different questions in two completely different contexts.  
 
Rubio knew exactly what the question represented and why it was asked and his doubt prepared response to this expected probing of his balancing of superstition with science still made no sense at all unless perhaps you are steeped in the "willful ignorance" to which the author refers.  
 
Obama says he believes and teaches his children to trust in science (evolution - which alone means the Earth must be at least many millions of years old) and where the Bible disagrees (6 days) it is not to be read literally.

 

Nice try.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I wasn't even awake yet.  You need more patience.

 

Rubio did more than duck the question.  He said that scientific knowledge has no bearing on the economy.  That's far different from what Obama said.  You are creating a false equivalence.

 

Furthermore, from the Slate article comments:

 

 

 

 

Nice try.  

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

 

lol.gif   

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 45

Laugh all you want.  Rubio was asked point blank the age of the Earth.  Obama was asked how to explain to a four year old whether or not the biblical timeline was literally true.  Different questions, different contexts.  Am I disappointed with Obama's answer?  Of course.  The Bible is bullshit.  The Earth is 4.54 billion years old.  However, Obama has made it clear through words and actions that his religiosity does not enter into his policy-making decisions.  When the Bible conflicts with science, he sides with science.  That was also made clear in his later comments which you redacted in order to better form your "gotcha".  

 

There's no gotcha, here, SDW.  

 

By the way, with this thread you just opened the door to all of my biblical criticisms.  You don't actually believe this line of reasoning regarding Marco Rubio, but are still making an argument from it.  That's always been your excuse to dismiss my criticisms of the Bible that use biblical "logic".  Thanks for opening that door for me, SDW.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #6 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Radical Christian Idiot Barack Obama doesn't know how old the Earth is.    He's clearly not fit for public office.  

 

 

 

 

 

Politicians should make decisions based on evidence.  They should weigh the facts and allow those facts to govern their decision-making process.  What should not happen is facts getting ignored or a false equivalence being created between evidence-based reality and crackpot wishful thinking.  

 

Yet, when asked a very uncontroversial question about how old the Earth is, Barack Obama vomited a gallon of logical fallacies in response.  

 

It does not take a scientist to know the Earth is in the order of billions of years old.  It is well established.  It is common knowledge.  It's not like Obama was asked about the ramifications of the discovery of a Higgs-like particle.  He was asked how old the Earth is.  It's as if he were asked if alcohol could get someone drunk and he responds that he's not a doctor and doesn't feel qualified to answer.  

 

The age of the Earth is not a great mystery.  Not at all.  When the future of our economy depends upon the next generation of scientists and engineers innovating here, spreading this sort of nonsense absolutely will affect our gross domestic product and economic growth.  

 

I agree. Politicians *SHOULD* make decisions based on *EVIDENCE*.... and that principle could lead to some very troubled waters... which I would welcome wholeheartedly, for the sake of weeding out terminally corrupt elements within the US power structure. It is painfully clear that politicians steer a long way from EVIDENCE that may land cherished institutions and well connected persons neck deep in doodoo.

 

However, on the notion that Obama is not fit for public office - I started a thread on this some months prior to the election. I was hoping that the conservatives on this board - who seem so pissed at Obama that they "don't even recognize this country anymore", would jump on it and quote , forte-fortissimo, the list of Obama's shameful anti-American deeds....

 

Here they are:

 

 

* Signed the National Defense Authorization Act – authorizing indefinite detention of U.S. citizens - which he said he would veto unless the 'indefinite detention clauses", 1021-1022 were retained

* Lied to the people regarding the future status of Guantanamo Bay

* Expanded executive authority to include assassination of U.S. citizens

* Waged war on Libya without congressional approval

* Started and continues covert drone wars in Yemen, Djibouti, Somalia, and Iran

* Escalating the proxy war in Somalia

Escalating the CIA drone war in Pakistan

Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Syria

* Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Libya

* Supporting and enabling a State Dept. listed terrorist group - the Mojahedin e Khalq - in its activities in Iran

Substantially expanding the persecution of medical marijuana providers that operate in compliance with state laws

Ordering vicious FDA entrapments and prosecutions of raw milk and other natural food providers

Metastasizing of TSA goons, thieves, and perverts to bus stations, rail stations, and newly-constructed illegal highway checkpoints

* Presiding over a health reform program that was underwritten by the industry middlemen, to benefit the industry middlemen

* Signed legislation that authorizes use of drones within the United States, against U.S. citizens

* Expanding the enormous, brutal, and covert mercenary U.S. occupation of Iraq while claiming he is ending the war

* Escalating the war / occupation in Afghanistan

* Increasing domestic use of secret evidence and secret courts (FISA – Foreign Intelligence Security Act)

* Secretly deploying US Special Forces to dozens of countries

* Signed the USA Patriot Act extension into law

* Approved the Justice Department prosecution of environmental and animal rights groups as "domestic terrorists" under the USA PATRIOT Act, using secret investigations

* Expanded the Bush warrantless wiretap program, and gave immunity to telecom companies that collaborated

Expanding the use of secret National Security letters for domestic investigations by FBI and CIA

Continuing Bush's extraordinary rendition program (kidnapping and torture outside the U.S.) 

Continuing Bush administration's use of "State Secrets" defense to prevent domestic war crimes prosecutions

Substantially expanding the persecution of domestic whistleblowers

* Signing into law the power to outlaw any protest against Secret Service Protected individuals, or near federal buildings

* Expanded the previous administration's appeasement and protection of serial criminality within the financial sector, and doling out $Trillions in taxpayer funded largesse to those who were largely responsible for the 2008-2009 crash.... and more.

 

Funny kind of "socialist" huh? I guess $Multi-Trillion largesse for the Bankster cartel, Wall Street scammers and parasites "defense" contractors and private mercenary armies like the terrorist gang formerly known as Blackwater..... doesn't count.

 

I agree. Obama is not fit for public office. And yes, he made a total idiot of himself for falling on the side of these religious nuts who label themselves "Christian". 1rolleyes.gif

 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #7 of 45

Rubio did not know the answer either.
 

post #8 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Laugh all you want.  Rubio was asked point blank the age of the Earth.  Obama was asked how to explain to a four year old whether or not the biblical timeline was literally true.  Different questions, different contexts.  Am I disappointed with Obama's answer?  Of course.  The Bible is bullshit.  The Earth is 4.54 billion years old.  However, Obama has made it clear through words and actions that his religiosity does not enter into his policy-making decisions.  When the Bible conflicts with science, he sides with science.  That was also made clear in his later comments which you redacted in order to better form your "gotcha".  

 

There's no gotcha, here, SDW.  

 

By the way, with this thread you just opened the door to all of my biblical criticisms.  You don't actually believe this line of reasoning regarding Marco Rubio, but are still making an argument from it.  That's always been your excuse to dismiss my criticisms of the Bible that use biblical "logic".  Thanks for opening that door for me, SDW.  

 

He's laughing because a bullshitter complaining about someone reading bullshit is the height of irony. As usual you disregard the plain evidence in front of you face and rationalize it away with intentions and motivations.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 45

Marco Rubio gave a religious answer to a science question.

 

Barack Obama gave a religious answer to a religious question, while going further in saying that science trumps religion in the classroom.

 

This significant difference is something that apparently many people here don't have the intellectual capacity or willingness to understand.  It makes sense.  A new study came out saying the same thing:  conservatives are "low-effort" thinkers.

 

 

 

Quote:
The authors test the hypothesis that low-effort thought promotes political conservatism. In Study 1, alcohol intoxication was measured among bar patrons; as blood alcohol level increased, so did political conservatism (controlling for sex, education, and political identification). In Study 2, participants under cognitive load reported more conservative attitudes than their no-load counterparts. In Study 3, time pressure increased participants’ endorsement of conservative terms. In Study 4, participants considering political terms in a cursory manner endorsed conservative terms more than those asked to cogitate; an indicator of effortful thought (recognition memory) partially mediated the relationship between processing effort and conservatism. Together these data suggest that political conservatism may be a process consequence of low-effort thought; when effortful, deliberate thought is disengaged, endorsement of conservative ideology increases.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Marco Rubio gave a religious answer to a science question.

 

Barack Obama gave a religious answer to a religious question, while going further in saying that science trumps religion in the classroom.

 

 

Can you explain how when Barack Obama is asked the age of the earth, it becomes a religious question?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 45

It should be evident if you aren't engaging in low effort thinking.  

 

 

 

Quote:
Q: Senator, if one of your daughters asked you—and maybe they already have—“Daddy, did god really create the world in 6 days?,” what would you say?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #12 of 45

So it becomes religious because Barack Obama is willing to lie to a child?

 

You often equate religion with things like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy BR.

 

If a child asked their parent how Santa can visit every house in 24 hours, when you tell them a lie, is it answering a religious question or just telling them a lie?

 

I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

This is what Barack Obama answered that he believes. He doesn't believe it only when speaking with a child. He doesn't believe it only when answering a religious question. He believes it when deciding your tax rate, your health care coverage and what legislation to promote.

 

Stop trying to distract with your lame strawmen.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 45

You are willfully ignorant and you just moved the goalposts again.  In honor of Thanksgiving, you can stuff it.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #14 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So it becomes religious because Barack Obama is willing to lie to a child?

 

You often equate religion with things like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy BR.

 

If a child asked their parent how Santa can visit every house in 24 hours, when you tell them a lie, is it answering a religious question or just telling them a lie?

 

I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

This is what Barack Obama answered that he believes. He doesn't believe it only when speaking with a child. He doesn't believe it only when answering a religious question. He believes it when deciding your tax rate, your health care coverage and what legislation to promote.

 

Stop trying to distract with your lame strawmen.

 

Just to be clear on something here - when a parent tells a child about Santa Claus - which technically constitutes lying to the child, are you condemning that as wrong? And it does not, in any case, appear that Obama's answer places any constraints on the age of the earth or how long it took to create, so I'm not clear where this argument is going anyway relative to the original criticism of Rubio.

post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So it becomes religious because Barack Obama is willing to lie to a child?

 

You often equate religion with things like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy BR.

 

If a child asked their parent how Santa can visit every house in 24 hours, when you tell them a lie, is it answering a religious question or just telling them a lie?

 

I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

This is what Barack Obama answered that he believes. He doesn't believe it only when speaking with a child. He doesn't believe it only when answering a religious question. He believes it when deciding your tax rate, your health care coverage and what legislation to promote.

 

Stop trying to distract with your lame strawmen.

 

Just to be clear on something here - when a parent tells a child about Santa Claus - which technically constitutes lying to the child, are you condemning that as wrong? And it does not, in any case, appear that Obama's answer places any constraints on the age of the earth or how long it took to create, so I'm not clear where this argument is going anyway relative to the original criticism of Rubio.

 

I wouldn't condemn the parent but then I'm not condemning Obama or Rubio and declaring them to be unfit. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. BR contends that answering that considering anything beyond carbon dating when answering the age of the universe makes one unfit for office. In this particular instance he declares this to be true of Rubio. The only acceptable answer is a scientific answer per him. It is found that Obama gave the same type of religious answer. He rationalizes away the use of the same criteria by claiming it isn't the same TYPE of question or that his very clear answer doesn't apply since he would be answering a child instead of an adult shouting out a question. Those rationalizations are nonsense though and that is why when I applied them in what he contends are other fantasy realms, he simply ran away from the question.

 

The answers are almost verbatim the same. Rubio doesn't place any constraints either.

 

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."

 

How is that different from the six days comment from Obama?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are willfully ignorant and you just moved the goalposts again.  In honor of Thanksgiving, you can stuff it.  

 

So you have no answer and now want to ignore the point since you can't address it. Something is full of stuffing and is it the reasoning being applied differently for home team.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So it becomes religious because Barack Obama is willing to lie to a child?

 

You often equate religion with things like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy BR.

 

If a child asked their parent how Santa can visit every house in 24 hours, when you tell them a lie, is it answering a religious question or just telling them a lie?

 

I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

This is what Barack Obama answered that he believes. He doesn't believe it only when speaking with a child. He doesn't believe it only when answering a religious question. He believes it when deciding your tax rate, your health care coverage and what legislation to promote.

 

Stop trying to distract with your lame strawmen.

 

Just to be clear on something here - when a parent tells a child about Santa Claus - which technically constitutes lying to the child, are you condemning that as wrong? And it does not, in any case, appear that Obama's answer places any constraints on the age of the earth or how long it took to create, so I'm not clear where this argument is going anyway relative to the original criticism of Rubio.

 

I wouldn't condemn the parent but then I'm not condemning Obama or Rubio and declaring them to be unfit. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. BR contends that answering that considering anything beyond carbon dating when answering the age of the universe makes one unfit for office. In this particular instance he declares this to be true of Rubio. The only acceptable answer is a scientific answer per him. It is found that Obama gave the same type of religious answer. He rationalizes away the use of the same criteria by claiming it isn't the same TYPE of question or that his very clear answer doesn't apply since he would be answering a child instead of an adult shouting out a question. Those rationalizations are nonsense though and that is why when I applied them in what he contends are other fantasy realms, he simply ran away from the question.

 

The answers are almost verbatim the same. Rubio doesn't place any constraints either.

 

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."

 

How is that different from the six days comment from Obama?

 

Only in as much as he appears to be saying that he doesn't think that we know, from a scientific perspective, the age of the earth. Obama's answer was to a specific question about what he would tell his daughter about creation, so it's not clear to me that he is claiming to be unaware of the scientific explanation. I hope not, anyway.

post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Only in as much as he appears to be saying that he doesn't think that we know, from a scientific perspective, the age of the earth. Obama's answer was to a specific question about what he would tell his daughter about creation, so it's not clear to me that he is claiming to be unaware of the scientific explanation. I hope not, anyway.

 

I can understand the need to rationalize it away. It doesn't make it right however. It is clear, like with Santa Claus that he isn't just humoring a kid and saying something to keep the fun going or something along those lines.

 

I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

It's really clear. He states what he believes. He qualifies it in a manner that gives wiggle room for something beyond 24 hour days. This isn't an explanation outside of himself aka "Child, sometimes adults have to...." This is a personal statement of his beliefs.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 45

Wow, talk abut dredging stuff out of the past. Is this all that the Republicans have got left? Talk about desperation. It's not as if Obama went AWOL, got into brawls in hotel lobbies, did cocaine, was a drunk, and lied his country into wars.. (and worse)

 

Even though I hold little else but disgust for Obama for his treachery against those who elected him in 2008, by becoming the equivalent of "Bush III", he was between a rock and a hard place with this question. Had Obama answered "approximately 4.5 billion years", he would have been jumped on by the hordes of phony Christians who would have accused him of being anti-Christian, or similar. As it happened, he answered in the spirit of the question, which was: "Senator, if one of your daughters asked you and maybe they already have... “Daddy, did God really create the world in six days? Think about it. 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #19 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Marco Rubio gave a religious answer to a science question.

 

Barack Obama gave a religious answer to a religious question, while going further in saying that science trumps religion in the classroom.

 

 

Watching you defend this is truly amusing.   Both are talking about the literal vs. non-literal interpretation of the bible.  Now, I don't think either one of them gave an objectionable answer.  But claiming one is "unfit for office" based on his statement and that you are merely disappointed with the other?  That's a joke.  

 

 

 

Quote:
This significant difference is something that apparently many people here don't have the intellectual capacity or willingness to understand.  It makes sense.  A new study came out saying the same thing:  conservatives are "low-effort" thinkers.

 

 

 

Ah, another broad attack on conservatives.  Color me shocked.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #20 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Wow, talk abut dredging stuff out of the past. Is this all that the Republicans have got left? Talk about desperation. It's not as if Obama went AWOL, got into brawls in hotel lobbies, did cocaine, was a drunk, and lied his country into wars.. (and worse)

 

Even though I hold little else but disgust for Obama for his treachery against those who elected him in 2008, by becoming the equivalent of "Bush III", he was between a rock and a hard place with this question. Had Obama answered "approximately 4.5 billion years", he would have been jumped on by the hordes of phony Christians who would have accused him of being anti-Christian, or similar. As it happened, he answered in the spirit of the question, which was: "Senator, if one of your daughters asked you and maybe they already have... “Daddy, did God really create the world in six days? Think about it. 

 

You're missing the point.  I don't think either one is unqualified for office, stupid (etc) based on his answer.  The thread was created to point out BR's outrageous bias against anyone with a (R) behind his name.  There is nothing wrong with either answer.  There is something wrong with anti-religious bigotry piled on top of egregious double standards.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #21 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

You're missing the point.  I don't think either one is unqualified for office, stupid (etc) based on his answer.  The thread was created to point out BR's outrageous bias against anyone with a (R) behind his name.  There is nothing wrong with either answer.  There is something wrong with anti-religious bigotry piled on top of egregious double standards.  

 

Really? I don't see BR's name, or any quote from BR in the original post... 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #22 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

 

Really? I don't see BR's name, or any quote from BR in the original post... 

 

It's a response to Marco Rubio..not fit for public office.  Look up the thread.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #23 of 45

A low effort response based on a false equivalence, which isn't surprising based on the results of that study I linked to.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #24 of 45

David Graham at The Atlantic further dismantles the false equivalence SDW is promoting here.

Quote:
 Obama and Rubio weren't asked remotely the same question. GQ's Mark Hainey asked Rubio point blank how old the earth is; he dodged. Obama also didn't say how old he thinks the earth is, because no one asked him. If you instinctively grasped that difference on the first read, you might be too sensible to work at Slate. As Steve Benen notes, the settings and context for these questions are also completely different (secular for Rubio, religious for Obama).

 

And let's not forget Obama's unsolicited further clarification that has been conveniently clipped from the original Slate article and SDW's rehashing here:

 

 

 

Quote:
Obama went on to make the case, unprompted, for the compatibility of faith and science: "I do believe in evolution. I don't think that is incompatible with Christian faith, just as I don't think science is incomptabile with Christian faith."

 

While I disagree with what the president has said here, I still must give him credit for part of it:  President Obama does not use faith to replace science.  President Obama accepts science and does mental gymnastics to make his faith fit with those facts.  That is a significant lesser evil and not even close to what Rubio is doing--attempting to twist reality to fit with his faith. 

 

I doubt you will see the difference because you are more interested in a contrived gotcha than anything else.  

 

It has been 17 days since Mitt Romney won the election.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #25 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

David Graham at The Atlantic further dismantles the false equivalence SDW is promoting here.

 

He doesn't dismantle it. He does a piss poor job of even addressing it and does nothing but set up strawmen to knock down, one after another with his poor rationalizations. Also why does his argument become better because you like him as a writer?

 

You did not say that Marco Rubio was unfit for office because he answered a question about the age of the earth and tried to make it compatible with his religious views. You are clearly moving the goalposts here.

 

Politicians should make decisions based on evidence.  They should weigh the facts and allow those facts to govern their decision-making process.  What should not happen is facts getting ignored or a false equivalence being created between evidence-based reality and crackpot wishful thinking.

 

Barack Obama did exactly the same thing for which you disqualified Rubio. He did not state the evidence. He substituted a false equivalence of crackpot wishful thinking per your view. He stated point blank that God created the Universe and the Earth and did so in six days though they may not have been 24 hour days. That is not science. That is not using facts. Stop the hypocrisy.

Quote:
While I disagree with what the president has said here, I still must give him credit for part of it:  President Obama does not use faith to replace science.

 

Rubio didn't use faith to replace science either. That nonsense is made up by you. Stating how the earth was made or how old it happens to be in no form or fashion effects policy decisions. That nonsensical assertion, unproven in every form and fashion, is yours alone. You're giving Obama credit for NOT doing something that no one else was doing here either.

 

 

Quote:
President Obama accepts science and does mental gymnastics to make his faith fit with those facts.  That is a significant lesser evil and not even close to what Rubio is doing--attempting to twist reality to fit with his faith. 

 

So saying the Earth was created in 6 days but perhaps not 6 days that are 24 hours or that involve time as we understand it passing isn't some form of mental gymnastics to you? That's rich.

 

 

Quote:
I doubt you will see the difference because you are more interested in a contrived gotcha than anything else.

 

Look who's talking, the king of threads featuring false outrage about gotcha's and wannabe slights.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #26 of 45
Thread Starter 

I'd like to repost what trump wrote, because this is the core of it:  

 

 

 

Quote:
Barack Obama did exactly the same thing for which you disqualified Rubio. He did not state the evidence. He substituted a false equivalence of crackpot wishful thinking per your view. He stated point blank that God created the Universe and the Earth and did so in six days though they may not have been 24 hour days. That is not science. That is not using facts. Stop the hypocrisy.

 

No, it wasn't exactly the same question.  But it is the same reasoning.  Both men attempted to make science compatible with their religious views, or vice versa.  If one is unfit for office, so is the other.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #27 of 45

I recently came to the conclusion that Obama is a religious conservative based on my figuring out why he opposed gay marriage all these years. Do you really think a bench filler from Jeremiah Wright's church would accept gay marriage?

post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'd like to repost what trump wrote, because this is the core of it:  

 

 

 

 

No, it wasn't exactly the same question.  But it is the same reasoning.  Both men attempted to make science compatible with their religious views, or vice versa.  If one is unfit for office, so is the other.  

Again, SDW, it was not the same reasoning, especially when Obama has repeatedly stated that when in conflict, science trumps faith.  He opposes teaching creationism alongside evolution in science classrooms.  Furthermore, read the quote carefully.  Let's look at it again carefully.

 

 

 

Quote:
I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

He rejects the literal six day nonsense.  He sides with science when it conflicts with religious dogma.  You are reaching so hard because you have a raging anti-Obama boner--and Romney couldn't perform for you on the day it counted.

 

Different questions.  Different answers.  Pathetic you can't realize it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'd like to repost what trump wrote, because this is the core of it:  

 

 

 

 

No, it wasn't exactly the same question.  But it is the same reasoning.  Both men attempted to make science compatible with their religious views, or vice versa.  If one is unfit for office, so is the other.  

Again, SDW, it was not the same reasoning, especially when Obama has repeatedly stated that when in conflict, science trumps faith.  He opposes teaching creationism alongside evolution in science classrooms.  Furthermore, read the quote carefully.  Let's look at it again carefully.

 

 

 

Quote:
I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe.

 

He rejects the literal six day nonsense.  He sides with science when it conflicts with religious dogma.  You are reaching so hard because you have a raging anti-Obama boner--and Romney couldn't perform for you on the day it counted.

 

Different questions.  Different answers.  Pathetic you can't realize it.

 

He doesn't reject it. He states that he believes it was created in six days. He then gives himself on what might constitute a day.

 

Is the age of the earth a matter of belief BR? Pathetic that you defend this. You enable the religious nuts you claim to loath because it is politically expedient for you to do so. You fail to realize it is politically expedient for them to ignore you and pander to their own interests. You personify what you want to vilify. HuffPo can admit it. Why can't you?

 

Still, it doesn't change the fact that Obama appeared to be carrying out a similar political calculus in finessing an answer that wouldn't upset religious sensibilities regarding an issue that scientists consider unequivocally settled.

 

Scientists say with 99 percent certainty that the Earth is 4.54 billion years old. Politicians such as Rubio and Obama instead say with 100 percent certainty that the Earth is at least some number of years old and that they like winning elections. Though their two responses differ in specifics, they both appear to be opting for the easier and more politically expedient answer. Perhaps there's a reason that the nation has never had an atheist president or that only one open atheist is currently serving in Congress.

 

Remember BR, you ENABLE this.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #30 of 45

Obama withstands some cognitive dissonance here, but has it right with regard to what should be taught in public schools.  All the butt-hurt Romneyites can cherry pick whatever they want, but zooming out and looking at the big picture reveals the false equivalence for what it really is--another pathetic attempt to distract and distort.  McCain dropped the Benghazi thing.  All of you are just looking for something else to fabricate and latch onto.  

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Q: York County was recently in the news for a lawsuit involving the teaching of intelligent design. What’s your attitude regarding the teaching of evolution in public schools?

 

A: “I’m a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. But I also believe our schools are there to teach worldly knowledge and science. I believe in evolution, and I believe there’s a difference between science and faith. That doesn’t make faith any less important than science. It just means they’re two different things. And I think it’s a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly don’t hold up to scientific inquiry.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 45

So what you're really saying is Rubio is not fit for office because when someone asked him the age of the universe, he launched into a tirade about why creationism should be taught in schools and how the Big Bang is crap?

 

Perhaps you could link to that because I'm pretty sure, unless you are full of crap and moving the goalposts, that you castigated him as unfit for office because he injected religious views into an answer, in Rubio's case really a non-answer since he claimed he didn't know, about the age of the universe.

 

You know why you are trying to clear the field for 2016 already BR? Because there is no rationale or giveway in the universe that will elect a Democratic president in 2016. Any solution that adds taxes or cuts spending is estimated to cut 1% in growth from the U.S. economic growth rate. Since it is already anemic and since the rest of the world, following Keynesian advice is also slipping back into recession with no real growth, it is clear 2013 will mean another recession for the U.S. This time there will be no escaping the blame.

 

You can't be so partisan you are already sweating 2016 before Obama is even sworn in for his second term are you?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 45

There's a reason I rarely reply to anything you say.  You are the king of strawmen.  

 

Marco Rubio said that the age of the Earth has nothing to do with the economy.  Bullshit.  Science has EVERYTHING to do with the economy.  Barack Obama understands that.  Marco Rubio doesn't.  That's it.  I'm done with this abortion of a thread.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There's a reason I rarely reply to anything you say.  You are the king of strawmen.  

 

Marco Rubio said that the age of the Earth has nothing to do with the economy.  Bullshit.  Science has EVERYTHING to do with the economy.  Barack Obama understands that.  Marco Rubio doesn't.  That's it.  I'm done with this abortion of a thread.

 

 

Maybe before you quit you can explain in detail how "the age of the earth" is relevant to "the economy". Considering most democrats completely ignore economic science you're already starting on a losing side there.

post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There's a reason I rarely reply to anything you say.  You are the king of strawmen.  

 

Marco Rubio said that the age of the Earth has nothing to do with the economy.  Bullshit.  Science has EVERYTHING to do with the economy.  Barack Obama understands that.  Marco Rubio doesn't.  That's it.  I'm done with this abortion of a thread.

 

You should realize that you've rationalized this to yourself. You've ad-homed me but there isn't a reasonable person reading this that is convinced of what you say. Also know and remember that you enable that which you claim to loath.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #35 of 45

Your reasonability radar has been malfunctioning for years.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #36 of 45

I'll be happy to read any links supporting a mass demand for recall and replacement of Rubio since, per you, he is unfit for office.

 

If you don't have any to support that then myself and the other reasonable people will write this off as your false outrage du jour.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, SDW, it was not the same reasoning, especially when Obama has repeatedly stated that when in conflict, science trumps faith.  He opposes teaching creationism alongside evolution in science classrooms.  Furthermore, read the quote carefully.  Let's look at it again carefully.

 

 

 

 

He rejects the literal six day nonsense.  He sides with science when it conflicts with religious dogma.  You are reaching so hard because you have a raging anti-Obama boner--and Romney couldn't perform for you on the day it counted.

 

Different questions.  Different answers.  Pathetic you can't realize it.

 

Rubio said this: 

 

Quote:
 "I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."

 

Quote:
What I’ve said to them is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it … it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe. I know there’s always a debate between those who readicon1.png the Bible literally and those who don’t, and I think it’s a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I’m a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live—that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don’t presume to know

 

This is as close to the same answer as one can get.  The only difference is he was being asked how he'd explained it (or would explain it)  to his children.  Unless you're claiming he said something he doesn't believe, it's a virtually identical answer.  Neither Obama nor Rubio demonstrates he knows the scientifically accepted age of the Earth.  Neither defines a Biblical day as a 24 hour day.  Both say they don't know the true answer.   

 

What's also key is what Rubio is not saying...something which you've inferred incorrectly.   

 

Quote:
I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."

 

You take this to mean that we'll never have a scientific understanding.  That's not what Rubio is saying.  He's saying that Christians may never truly "know" the answer, because their faith does not measure the age of the Earth in the same way science does.   If you weren't so unbelievably anti-Christian (and anti-GOP, for that matter) you'd understand this.   

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There's a reason I rarely reply to anything you say.  You are the king of strawmen.  

 

Marco Rubio said that the age of the Earth has nothing to do with the economy.  Bullshit.  Science has EVERYTHING to do with the economy.  Barack Obama understands that.  Marco Rubio doesn't.  That's it.  I'm done with this abortion of a thread.

 

Could you explain what it has to do with the economy, specifically?  And really, your stance on this one part really amuses me.  Rubio is trying to do exactly what you claim you think Republicans should do:  Not make his religious views a political issue.  He's saying the real issues are economic.  But that's not good enough for you, because as another member posted, you're trying to "clear the field" for 2016.  I suspect you view the young, charismatic, popular, Hispanic Republican Senator a very serious threat next time around. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #38 of 45

We are caught in a loop.  I have asked and answered your questions several times.  You counter with the same, tired, debunked arguments.  I'll give you the highlights briefly one last time.

 

Promoting science and rational thought benefits this country because the entire technological revolution we have experienced is all based on...drumroll please...SCIENCE!

 

 Promoting the idea that Christianity (or any religion for that matter) has anything meaningful to say about the age of the Earth that isn't based on empirical evidence is completely counterproductive to the goal of inspiring a new generation of scientists and engineers.  Denigrating science by taking a very settled question and providing a bullshit answer that only includes two Christian viewpoints (7 days vs 7 eras) while claiming that settled question is a great mystery that may never be answered is absolutely ludicrous.  

 

"god did it" has been a stumbling block for centuries.  "god did it" has retarded our civilization's scientific achievements and progress.  When Newton was satisfied with "god did it", he ceased his efforts in attempting to explain how all the little gravitational tugs between all the planets could possibly be stable--he understood it for two body systems, but felt without the hand of god holding things steady, there was no way it would work naturally with a larger solar system.  Newton INVENTED CALCULUS ON A BET.  Figuring out perturbation theory (which took another couple hundred years until Laplace came around) should have been a walk in the park.  It was because Newton was satisfied with "god did it."  When his curiosity ended, he stopped advancing humanity's knowledge.  Religion neutered him, just as it will neuter the next generation of thinkers if the likes of Marco Rubio promote the idea that settled science actually are mysteries that will never be answered.

 

Religion didn't give us GPS.  Einstein's General Relativity did.  Religion didn't give us nuclear power.  A thorough understanding of nuclear chemistry, nuclear physics, and the predictability of radioactive decay did.  Those same fields (amongst others that corroborate it) allow us to know the age of the Earth.

 

Want to proclaim the age of the Earth is some great mystery?  Fine.  You can turn off your lights, dismantle our nuclear arsenal, and forfeit all the modern day technological comforts that rely upon the VERY SETTLED SCIENCE.

 

Spoiler alert--the literal 7 days IS EMPIRICALLY FALSE.  

 

Does Obama hedge and pay some lip service to the ignorant?  Sure.  Was he asked the same question?  **** no.  Does his track record point to favoring teaching science over religious dogma in public schools?  Absolutely.

 

Edit: Fixed a grammar error--wasn't to was.


Edited by BR - 11/26/12 at 10:07pm

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #39 of 45

Didn't you say you were leaving this thread, BR? He lost the argument. Nothing more needs to be said. Let him talk himself into a wall defending his stupid and intellectually dishonest comparison.

post #40 of 45

You're right, tonton.  The awfulness sucked me back in.  No more.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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