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Apple trounces Microsoft in Black Friday retail traffic, purchases

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
A comparison of Apple and Microsoft retail stores on Black Friday found that nearly 5 times as many items were purchased per hour at the Apple Store.

Gene Munster and his team at Piper Jaffray conducted 8 hours of observations at Apple retail stores in Minneapolis last Friday, also known as the U.S. retail shopping holiday "Black Friday." They found that traffic was up 31 percent year over year, an improvement likely driven by shoppers wanting an opportunity to see new new iPad mini.

Their time spent at the Apple Store found that an average of 17.2 items were purchased per hour. In comparison, two hours spent outside a Microsoft Store found that 3.5 items were purchased per hour ? and none of those were of the new Surface tablet. In fact, all but two of the purchases from the Microsoft store were games for its Xbox game console.

Piper


Munster also said that hourly traffic at the Microsoft Store was 47 percent less than traffic seen at Apple's retail store. Both locations are located across from each other at Mall of America in Minneapolis ??one of the most famous malls in the country.

While Munster saw the sales and traffic at Apple's store as a positive, he also noted that the most popular version of the iPad mini ? the 16-gigabyte model ? was in limited supply. He also said that Mac sales appear to be affected by the new iPad, as well as a potential slowdown ahead of the launch of the newly redesigned iMac.

In all, Munster and his team counted sales of 11 iPads per hour at the Apple Store. That was down from 14.8 iPads per hour counted last year, but Munster isn't concerned, as many sales have simply moved online.

He believes that total iPad sales, including the full-size 9.7-inch model and the new 7.9-inch variety, will be up 62 percent year over year.
post #2 of 58
They need to get those iMacs out the door.
post #3 of 58
I also want to see the "new new ipad mini".
> "shoppers wanting an opportunity to see new new iPad mini."

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #4 of 58

Not surprising at all.  Microsoft has almost nothing to sell to the consumer.  I don't know why they have stores.

 

No desktop or laptop, no tablet or cell phones nothing except xBox and MS Office.

People who buy Windows 8 Phones buy them at the cell phone stores or electronic stores.

 

Microsoft makes money selling to businesses.

post #5 of 58
What's with the big drop in Mac sales?
post #6 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

They need to get those iMacs out the door.

That doesn't explain the drop.
post #7 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

What's with the big drop in Mac sales?
How can you get any meaningful analysis off of data from one store over 8 hours? 1hmm.gif
post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Not surprising at all.  Microsoft has almost nothing to sell to the consumer.  I don't know why they have stores.

No desktop or laptop, no tablet or cell phones nothing except xBox and MS Office.
People who buy Windows 8 Phones buy them at the cell phone stores or electronic stores.

Microsoft makes money selling to businesses.

Not according to their marketing pics on their website:





easy to mock up, of course



And if you really want to read a pathetic one-liner, see their page on the Microsoft Store here
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post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

They need to get those iMacs out the door.

That doesn't explain the drop.

Agree. I am curious if the delay was deliberate, in order to move holiday sales more towards tablets. It may be better to sell a family three tablets rather than one iMac.

However, I was at a store for about 30 minutes, and did notice a fair bit of activity in the new computer set up area-- three computers at the peak, so I am not sure how convinced I would be in terms of extrapolating quarter sales.

As for the idea that you don't get meaningful data in 8 hours, I will offer this: in 2003-4, I would spend a timed 15 minutes outside of the Stockton Street San Francisco store once every month or so to watch iPod and Mac sales-- to justify my optimism in the stock. You can actually see quite a bit in a short period-- lots of traffic, or are people actually buying things.
post #10 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

That doesn't explain the drop.


Not having any iMacs to sell doesn't explain the drop?
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #11 of 58

who in their right mind goes to a Microsoft store?  To see some horrid Windows 8 laptop/tablet hybrid which fails hard at both?  Perhaps to see a Windows Phone with a totally unusable, fugly OS that no one uses?  Or perhaps to see a XBox360 RROD (50%+ failure rate)?  Not to mention they can  see all the Microsoft crap at Best Buy, HHGregg, etc...

post #12 of 58

Oh god. While I have no doubt about the core of the story, this is hardly a viable sample size.  He observed a few stores in one metro area?  Next you'll tell me if I stand in the airport, I can conclude that 96% of the people in there are indeed travelling to another city?

 

These analysts are ridiculous.

 

I'm sure his numbers for that metro area are correct.  In fact, I'm sure it's accurate pretty much anywhere.  But to extrapolate his "data" from such a small sample onto the larger population isn't really telling the whole story.

 

EDIT.  A better analogy would be me standing in the Tampa airport.  I can then conclude that 96% of the people in Tampa hate the city and are leaving for a better place.

post #13 of 58

I could have come to the same conclusion after 8 seconds.  I wonder where in the world is that pack Microsoft store?  I only seen a few but there were always empty.

post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Not having any iMacs to sell doesn't explain the drop?

 

What mac drop BTW?   I went 3 times at the Apple store on black friday and they were selling more mac's than ipads.  It must have been because the mac rebate was decent but still.

 

I think the imac will have significant numbers this quarter because a lot of people are waiting for them.  That is assuming Apple can meet demand, but I expect the imacs to sell out until january.

post #15 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Not surprising at all.  Microsoft has almost nothing to sell to the consumer.  I don't know why they have stores.

Simple: Because Apple has stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

What's with the big drop in Mac sales?

If you look at 2008 and 2009 there is a marked difference. This type of analysis is better for higher volume items and lower priced items. When it comes to a product with an APR of $1200 or more I just don't think Black Friday is the most likely time people will buy a Mac for themselves or someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Not according to their marketing pics on their website:
easy to mock up, of course

And if you really want to read a pathetic one-liner, see their page on the Microsoft Store here

That yellow shirt is awful. MS really needs to work on at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

who in their right mind goes to a Microsoft store?  To see some horrid Windows 8 laptop/tablet hybrid which fails hard at both?  Perhaps to see a Windows Phone with a totally unusable, fugly OS that no one uses?  Or perhaps to see a XBox360 RROD (50%+ failure rate)?  Not to mention they can  see all the Microsoft crap at Best Buy, HHGregg, etc...

1) I like Windows Phone. It doesn't have the ecosystem I want and it's world's away from iOS but if I couldn't get an iPhone my next choice would be a Nokia Lumia.

2) If I needed a WinPC I'd consider getting one at an MS Store.One good thing about their PCs is they don't come with any crap ware. Sure, you could wipe the drive and start anew but that can time consuming it you have to hunt down drivers.

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post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


That doesn't explain the drop.

More shoppers are probably buying online to avoid stock-outs.

post #17 of 58
worthless, anecdotal study. all questions about a drop in traffic or sales can simply be dismissed with the explanation of more online visitors.
post #18 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I also want to see the "new new ipad mini".
> "shoppers wanting an opportunity to see new new iPad mini."
That's the Retina Mini. We ALL want to see that 1wink.gif
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #19 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


If you look at 2008 and 2009 there is a marked difference. This type of analysis is better for higher volume items and lower priced items. When it comes to a product with an APR of $1200 or more I just don't think Black Friday is the most likely time people will buy a Mac for themselves or someone else.
I like your thinking. But then, why was it noticeably higher last year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Not having any iMacs to sell doesn't explain the drop?

No, it doesn't, not unless iMacs were outselling MacBooks significantly last year. Unless I am wrong, Macs include MacBooks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How can you get any meaningful analysis off of data from one store over 8 hours? 1hmm.gif

It is possible this is an outlier. But buying patterns, like voting, are often predictable from small sample sets. And, in order not to insult Minnesotans, I am prepared to assume they are representative of the whole country 1biggrin.gif
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

More shoppers are probably buying online to avoid stock-outs.

Then, wouldn't we see a similar decreases across all product lines?
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post

worthless, anecdotal study. all questions about a drop in traffic or sales can simply be dismissed with the explanation of more online visitors.

No, it cannot. Some, but not all. If it is all about online shopping, we should see some consistent changes amongst product lines.
post #22 of 58
Interesting that the traffic they saw at the MS store was mainly games,perhaps $50 a pop. But at Apple you are looking at $200 and up.

And yet Microsoft thinks their stores are winning and should be expanded. Can't be from sales. Perhaps it's the service fees.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Interesting that the traffic they saw at the MS store was mainly games,perhaps $50 a pop. But at Apple you are looking at $200 and up.
And yet Microsoft thinks their stores are winning and should be expanded. Can't be from sales. Perhaps it's the service fees.

Why do you say that Microsoft thinks their stores are "winning"? Can you cite a quotation from Ballmer or Gates stating that their "stores are winning"?

Why do you stoop to using terminology popularized by Charlie Sheen?
post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

who in their right mind goes to a Microsoft store?  To see some horrid Windows 8 laptop/tablet hybrid which fails hard at both?  Perhaps to see a Windows Phone with a totally unusable, fugly OS that no one uses?  Or perhaps to see a XBox360 RROD (50%+ failure rate)?  Not to mention they can  see all the Microsoft crap at Best Buy, HHGregg, etc...

I can't really say why anyone would go to a Microsoft store, but I do think you are wrong about the red ring of death. With the current console, I think you are far more likely to end up with a broken disc drive than with the rrod. Either way, you are screwed, but i just wanted to clarify where the screwing was going to come from.
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post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

They need to get those iMacs out the door.

Four more days until Novembergate.

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post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


They must be giving away something for free. Notice how all the people on the right side are in a queue. No one is using any of the computers. At an Apple store, every device is being used and people are waiting to be next at every table. The crowd seen here is misrepresentative of actual traffic and what's up with the photographer gal?

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post #27 of 58
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Four more days until Novembergate.

 

Dual Novembergate: The Darkest Day in Apple's History

 

"Yeah, I remember Novembergate."
"Tell us about it, grandpa!"

"Well, you see, it was the summer of twenty ought twelve…"
"Skip the lead-up; we have a replacement organ templating session soon."
"You impertinent whelps! Anyway, December 1st rolled around and Apple, who had promised us iMacs and a new iTunes… didn't deliver!"

"Wo~w… Apple must have truly been doomed, huh?"
"Well, no, they went on to become the most successful company in recorded history. Then came the war…"

post #28 of 58
Walked into Lincoln Park, Chicago store Friday eleven thirty and in five minutes walked out with white-32 Gb AT&T mini iPad. Not there to take a survey but store busy, not packed, product bags were leaving.
post #29 of 58

Imagine working in a MS store opposite an Apple store.

The Apple store is packed with everyone in a great mood, shoppers leaving with bags full of expensive hardware.

You on the other hand have sold two copies of call of duty to too spotty teenagers and redirected ten people to the Apple store who came in by mistake looking for an iPad.

post #30 of 58

If MS is truly matching 20% of Apple’s sales, that’s terrific for them! I am skeptical, though.

 

(I wonder how return rates will compare!)

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

who in their right mind goes to a Microsoft store?  To see some horrid Windows 8 laptop/tablet hybrid ...

I would. Not to buy, but certainly to see why they have a store. If there was a store where I live, I wouldn't have to install 'wait' over the weekend, as many people ask me advice on their latest OS. Oh my, does this Windows version suck. Defaults to that Metro thingy, can't VNC into the desktop, no Programs folder; I had to search the Program Files directory and search for all *.exe and create shortcuts. I'm sure there's a better way, but intuitive W8 is not
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post


EDIT.  A better analogy would be me standing in the Tampa airport.  I can then conclude that 96% of the people in Tampa hate the city and are leaving for a better place.

Brilliant!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That yellow shirt is awful. MS really needs to work on at.

But if they used blue they would...oh, never mind. Besides, this one goes with his hair.
Quote:
2) If I needed a WinPC I'd consider getting one at an MS Store.One good thing about their PCs is they don't come with any crap ware. Sure, you could wipe the drive and start anew but that can time consuming it you have to hunt down drivers.

Do they sell their 'Signature' PC's in their stores? I'd like to take a peek if they really come without any crapware, stickers and such. Next time I'm in The States that is, don't believe they have any Stores abroad. Pathetic site warning> http://www.signaturepc.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

They must be giving away something for free. Notice how all the people on the right side are in a queue. No one is using any of the computers. At an Apple store, every device is being used and people are waiting to be next at every table. The crowd seen here is misrepresentative of actual traffic and what's up with the photographer gal?

Total marketing pic, I'm sure. Possibly MS colleagues of the Store employees swinging by in opening day. Here's a nice short article from the Twin Cities, Oct 26:
http://www.twincities.com/technology/ci_21863542/mall-america-crowd-warms-new-microsoft-products
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post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

I like your thinking. But then, why was it noticeably higher last year?
No, it doesn't, not unless iMacs were outselling MacBooks significantly last year. Unless I am wrong, Macs include MacBooks.
It is possible this is an outlier. But buying patterns, like voting, are often predictable from small sample sets. And, in order not to insult Minnesotans, I am prepared to assume they are representative of the whole country 1biggrin.gif
i live in Minnesota. I wish I could say we're representative of the whole country. lol.gif

Anyway if Munster was comparing Apple to Microsoft then the sample could only have come from the Mall of America store. That's the only store MS has in Minnesota and its right across from the Apple store.
post #33 of 58
Re: "...two hours spent outside a Microsoft Store found that 3.5 items were purchased per hour %u2014 and none of those were of the new Surface tablet."

The Surface RT death spiral has already begun.

Re: "In fact, all but two of the purchases from the Microsoft store were games for its Xbox game console."

Not looking good for Windows 8 either. Zero consumer appeal.

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post #34 of 58
I've been to the Apple store at the Mall of America numerous times and right across from it is a Microsoft store. I've never ever seen the MS store as busy as those pics above. At most a handful of people and usually playing around with Xbox.
post #35 of 58

Ever hear of seat fillers? Apparently majorcrap has and utilizes a variation on that theme to make it seem their stores are packed with 'customers'.

post #36 of 58
Dreadful mac sales NOT explained by no iMacs.

75% of all Macs sold are notebooks.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

Dreadful mac sales NOT explained by no iMacs.
75% of all Macs sold are notebooks.

A clear majority anyway. I figure iMacs are maybe 20-25% of Apple's business, but that's just a guess.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Do they sell their 'Signature' PC's in their stores? I'd like to take a peek if they really come without any crapware, stickers and such. Next time I'm in The States that is, don't believe they have any Stores abroad. Pathetic site warning> http://www.signaturepc.com

LOL, I don't think that's a Microsoft site. Yeah that is awful though.
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post #39 of 58
This is how Gene spent his Friday...
post #40 of 58
The drop includes the build out of more Apple Stores year over year. Compare 2011 Total Apple Stores to 2012 Total Apple Stores. That will reduce the number per hour per store.
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