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Microsoft to raise user licensing fees in response to 'BYOD' movement - Page 2

post #41 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Honestly? I'm yet to see a person that I know to be using Windows 8 and hating it. Beside having it on half our computers, Win 8 machines have started leaking into our corporate users. Since all of them are using business apps which run on desktop, all of Metro they see is Start screen, which some like, and some are indifferent. No haters yet. After that, business is as usual. If you ignore meddling with Windows (which corporate users don't do anyway), using your applications on Windows 8 really does not differ from using them on Windows 7.

Beside that, 8 boots much faster than 7, seems to be very stable, gives nice perks like multi-boot from VHDs, handles updates better and have number of tweaks compared to Windows 7. Beside agreeing or disagreeing with visual dissonance between Metro and desktop, and lack of Aero on desktop, there is nothing for users to hate. And those are visual, not functional "issues".

I that the UI changes and split-personality MS has forced upon Windows to try to be everything to everyone instead of offering a product that is great for a given I/O.

Now you mention the booting and stability. The underpinnings are much improved. They even moved that WinNT kernel to WinPh8 which is a great move, but users don't think about the underpinnings or work in the power shell.

Can users get used to doing things differently with Win8? Of course, but that isn't what consumer Windows users typically want. If people think they have to learn a new OS to use Win8 you may find it becomes the "final straw" in a decision to switch to Mac for many users.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #42 of 122
Becuase that makes any fucking sense at all -_- Now, if Microoft was actually intelligenent, which as weall know, they're not even close to being intelligent, but alas, what SmartMicrosoft should do, is lower Enterprise fees, instead of raising Consumer fees, but how would Microsoft get it's moniez? Microsoft needs it's moniesssssss!!! *Rollseyes*
post #43 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrosy View Post

Goodluck runnig your ERP systems with intergrated security model on your $20 license. Active Directory for one is so pervasive across the corporate landscape its very difficult to achieve the same with other tools.

The unified back office make repetitive tasks easier. Picture you Mac server back end... now ad 30 SQL databases 3 exchages servers, multiple SAP instances and 10000+ user base , a mixed bag of OSes and LANs all over the world administered from a central location. Try administer that on your $20 a server infrastructure and see how far you get.

Obviously nothing is impossible and if a corporate was to ditch Windows as a back office system. Apple will be the last place they will look.... there is a reason Linux controls +90% of the supercomputer market the rest shared amongst other unix flavours( not OSX ) and WinTel.

How does the fact that 0.01% of potential computer users MIGHT not be able to use OS X somehow negate the fact that Microsoft's fees are extortionate?

And even that 0.01% figure is probably too high. OS X is Unix and will run most major Unix software.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #44 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And yet I sit here, forced to shut down my computer instead of restarting it, to get WMMD 1.1 to remain committed within my Windows install. You'd think Microsoft software would work with Microsoft software, at least. lol.gif

Also, I believe you're relegating to nonchalance the most important argument. This is how Microsoft expects people to use their computers going forward. I don't see a lot of upgrading happening because of that. 

And WMMD would be..?

As of upgrading. Major Windows 8 problem is not Windows 8 as per se, but Windows 7. Corporates are tied with big investments in time and money a desktop upgrade across the scope would command, not to mention unforeseen issues that can arise with legacy software, old printers etc. Home users, outside of small number of enthusiasts, don't upgrade - they replace machine and OS once old machine is dead or doesn't serve its purpose any more.

It is hardly a secret that Windows, being so much wider adopted platform, does not command same enthusiasm OSX does among Apple users, at least not in percentage game. In absolute numbers, well... but regardless. People upgrading or not really hasn't got much to do with Win 8 usability.
post #45 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

How does the fact that 0.01% of potential computer users MIGHT not be able to use OS X somehow negate the fact that Microsoft's fees are extortionate?
And even that 0.01% figure is probably too high. OS X is Unix and will run most major Unix software.

1) I see no force or threats by MS in relation to their prices.

2) If prices are too high then that vendor will end up selling less if other competitors offer a competitive product for less money. You've eluded that 99.9% of everything that can be done on Windows in the enterprise can be done with Macs thus saving thousands of dollars (even hundreds of thousands of dollars) with $20 and that hasn't happened without should make you realize that what Windows in the enterprise does is not 99.9% of what Mac OS can do in the enterprise.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #46 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I that the UI changes and split-personality MS has forced upon Windows to try to be everything to everyone instead of offering a product that is great for a given I/O.
Now you mention the booting and stability. The underpinnings are much improved. They even moved that WinNT kernel to WinPh8 which is a great move, but users don't think about the underpinnings or work in the power shell.
Can users get used to doing things differently with Win8? Of course, but that isn't what consumer Windows users typically want. If people think they have to learn a new OS to use Win8 you may find it becomes the "final straw" in a decision to switch to Mac for many users.

I agree with you. But MS is not playing blitz-krieg game anyway. They don't expect people to jump on new Windows on the release day, after camping in front of shops for couple of nights to secure their copy. They expect people to get new Windows with new PC/laptop. Once that happen, people will get used to it, and product will serve them well because it is good product, even if a bit visually imbalanced... so when they eventually go to shop to look for tablet or new smartphone (both markets highly under-saturated at present, compared to PC market), they might get attracted to Windows phone or tablet, if for nothing else, then for familiarity of it.

And that, I believe, is MS major goal in "tabletizing" PC. Don't know how well is it going to work, but pretty sure it is not going to hurt them at all. At worst, it will not make much difference is Windows gadget adoption.
post #47 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I that the UI changes and split-personality MS has forced upon Windows to try to be everything to everyone instead of offering a product that is great for a given I/O.
Now you mention the booting and stability. The underpinnings are much improved. They even moved that WinNT kernel to WinPh8 which is a great move, but users don't think about the underpinnings or work in the power shell.
Can users get used to doing things differently with Win8? Of course, but that isn't what consumer Windows users typically want. If people think they have to learn a new OS to use Win8 you may find it becomes the "final straw" in a decision to switch to Mac for many users.

Fast booting is nice, but if you have efficient sleep, its impact is negligible, you reboot on Patch Tuesday and you're probably good for a month. I think the irony is that fast booting helps resolve problems faster when you're resolving problems by methodically changing a single variable at a time: reboot, adjust something, reboot, etc.

I haven't used it enough to notice stability improvements because that would take a long time. Windows NT and derivative OSs have been very stable as long as you don't a) use shit hardware or b) run shit drivers. Sticking with devices on the WHQL was actually a good way to do just that. Nothing is perfect, but avoiding budget parts with components made by fly-by-night companies generally mitigates the risk. With a good machine, it's a shock to get a BSOD because they happen so very rarely. I think I was averaging one every two years on workstation systems.

My big complaint is shoehorning a touch UI into non-touch computers, and even within the new tile system, the controls are inconsistent.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/26/12 at 8:17pm
post #48 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Mission Statement: To take the cool stuff that Apple Computer Inc. is doing and sell it as our own. To make software.

 

It's one gigantic, ongoing, 35-year coincidence of independent originality where Apple just happens to do something first, followed by Microsoft doing the same.

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post #49 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Microsoft has been a crappy business model corporation since its inception.

If someone else could tackle the Enterprise as well as MS I'm sure plenty of companies would jump on board.

Not even "as we'll" but "half as well" and MS would lose a great deal of its market share. 

Enterprise IT managers are risk adverse. They will not jump ship until they are up to their collective necks. They are also work adverse so changing platform/providers/solutions sounds like a lot of work to them. What needs to happen is that the individual employees start boycotting the company provided services by somehow working around the typical Exchange server features. It all starts with somehow redirecting their email, transparently just like they started this revolution by sneaking their devices into the building and using the iOS easy to configure Exchange Server setup without consulting the IT department. If a new provider offered that service like Google sort of does already, Microsoft will expire from internal bleeding.

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post #50 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

And that, I believe, is MS major goal in "tabletizing" PC. Don't know how well is it going to work, but pretty sure it is not going to hurt them at all. At worst, it will not make much difference is Windows gadget adoption.

I don't think it will go well in the long run. Before the iPad was ever announced I was on these forums adamantly stating that any tablet by Apple not use Mac OS and be successful. I stated that it had to be an iOS-based OS with a UI to fit the device. I think this where MS doesn't get it or simply can't let go. You make your IDE and OS work well between the OSes you have for different platforms but you make the UI feel natural and idealized for each device type, not try to make the same one work across all devices.

I've also been using Win Server 2012*. I think that can fair better but that's because admins will know there way around the OS and users will likely only access shares and services.

* I use VMWare Fusion on my Mac but since that app is a consumer app, unlike Citrix XenServer it doesn't create virtual networks that allow multiple Win servers to interact in a domain. That's no longer an issue with this free utility: http://nickapedia.com/2012/01/10/breaking-new-ground-an-uber-tool-for-the-mac/

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Fast booting is nice, but if you have efficient sleep, its impact is negligible, you reboot on Patch Tuesday and you're probably good for a month. I think the irony is that fast booting helps resolve problems faster when you're resolving problems by methodically changing a single variable at a time: reboot, adjust something, reboot, etc.

I do look at boot times, but mostly as an indication of core efficiency changes between OSes. If the OS starts up 50% faster it's likely other areas of the code base have also been more efficient.
Edited by SolipsismX - 11/26/12 at 8:33pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #51 of 122
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
And WMMD would be..?

 

Oh, that might not be it. Can never remember anything. It's the graphics driver that's supposed to, you know, apply. The Boot Camp drivers don't work for 8 yet, so I have to resort to Microsoft's "solution". But nope; it forgets that my monitor exists, so it's back to 640x480 every time I boot if I restart instead of shut down.

 

Oh. Best part. The Boot Camp driver DOES work. Whenever it goes to 640x480, if I go in to device/driver/revert to last driver, it works just fine. But then it doesn't work on the next boot, so I have to then redownload WMMD (WDDM? That's probably it…) again. And poof, it works again. Until the next boot. 

 

It's an endless cycle of lies.

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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #52 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Enterprise IT managers are risk adverse. They will not jump ship until they are up to their collective necks. They are also work adverse so changing platform/providers/solutions sounds like a lot of work to them. What needs to happen is that the individual employees start boycotting the company provided services by somehow working around the typical Exchange server features. It all starts with somehow redirecting their email, transparently just like they started this revolution by sneaking their devices into the building and using the iOS easy to configure Exchange Server setup without consulting the IT department. If a new provider offered that service like Google sort of does already, Microsoft will expire from internal bleeding.

I think the iPhone and now the iPad have started that. Add in advancements in tech altering our culture (like with internet everywhere) and a centralized building where everyone goes to work becomes less of a requirement.

From an anthropological PoV this could also change the requirement for such congested cities where we lie atop one another. The automobile and road infrastructure helped pushed the concept of the suburbs along but if you're job is still tied to a location you are still tied to a reasonable distance from work. With the internet our "community" is global. But that's for another discussion....

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #53 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Mission Statement: To take the cool stuff that Apple Computer Inc. is doing and sell it as our own. To make software.

 

It's one gigantic, ongoing, 35-year coincidence of independent originality where Apple just happens to do something first, followed by Microsoft doing the same.

Not really. Lately perhaps, but Microsoft has been doing the same thing to many other companies such a Novel, IBM, Lotus, WordPerfect, dBase, Netscape, AOL, Sun, Oracle, RealMedia and just about any other innovative company that has come along in the last 40 years. Even the NT kernel was borrowed directly from AT&T System V. They are historically worse copy artists than Samsung but they seldom get challenged.

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post #54 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

The disturbing thing about Microsoft's suicidal tendencies is that once their rusting oil tanker finally drifts to a halt and sinks, Apple, having won, will inevitably _become_ Microsoft.

Yes, without a very strong leader who can stand up to shareholders and get his way in all things, all successful companies become victims of their own success. Shareholders demand ever increasing revenue, or maintained revenue at the very least. So taking a revenue hit at any time is the kiss of death for all but the most commanding CEO's. It's okay to give up some revenue from one thing if you can replace it with revenue from a new thing, as Apple so remarkably did with the iPod to iPhone transition. Ballmer's career at Microsoft depends on The Surface. And maybe what we're seeing today with these fees is Microsoft's lack of confidence in achieving any significant revenue generation from The Surface to offset revenue loss in Enterprise licensing.

post #55 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think the iPhone and now the iPad have started that. Add in advancements in tech altering our culture (like with internet everywhere) and a centralized building where everyone goes to work becomes less of a requirement.

From an anthropological PoV this could also change the requirement for such congested cities where we lie atop one another. The automobile and road infrastructure helped pushed the concept of the suburbs along but if you're job is still tied to a location you are still tied to a reasonable distance from work. With the internet our "community" is global. But that's for another discussion....

I can imagine  scenario where an email address such as m@mstone.globalcompany.com will become acceptable and IT will just intercept incoming mail and route it to a spam filtering, redirecting the service so it ends up in my iCloud inbox. That way it never hits the Exchange server. Of course that sort of defeats SOX but whatever. Then, when I send mail out it shows my business address not iCloud.

 

It is too bad that iCal server is not really an option anymore because being able to view your associates' schedules is still an important aspect of Outlook. Fortunately I have an assistant who uses Windows (also Mac/iPhone) and she updates me via email of changes to the meeting schedules. Microsoft still has a grip on enterprise but we need to just continually chip away at it until everything is on the web with open source accessibility.


Edited by mstone - 11/26/12 at 8:57pm

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post #56 of 122

"Methinks this will come back and bite them in their greedy little behinds."

 

Time to move to Linux Servers
 

post #57 of 122
It's more valuable to the enterprise to be able to use non-Microsoft based devices...
post #58 of 122

Innovate, or up-the-rate.

 

Mr Ballmer faced a tough decision...

 

1000

 

Can you tell what path he chose, boys and girls?

Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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post #59 of 122

Microsoft is Doomed.

post #60 of 122
There's that microsoft again
Cheers !
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Cheers !
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post #61 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Oh, that might not be it. Can never remember anything. It's the graphics driver that's supposed to, you know, apply. The Boot Camp drivers don't work for 8 yet, so I have to resort to Microsoft's "solution". But nope; it forgets that my monitor exists, so it's back to 640x480 every time I boot if I restart instead of shut down.

 

Oh. Best part. The Boot Camp driver DOES work. Whenever it goes to 640x480, if I go in to device/driver/revert to last driver, it works just fine. But then it doesn't work on the next boot, so I have to then redownload WMMD (WDDM? That's probably it…) again. And poof, it works again. Until the next boot. 

 

It's an endless cycle of lies.

 I had no issues loading Windows 8 via Boot Camp using version 4. I have a iMac from 3 years ago!

Btw not defending MS, since my next post will ask Nikon 133, if he just making stuff up.

post #62 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Honestly? I'm yet to see a person that I know to be using Windows 8 and hating it. Beside having it on half our computers, Win 8 machines have started leaking into our corporate users. Since all of them are using business apps which run on desktop, all of Metro they see is Start screen, which some like, and some are indifferent. No haters yet. After that, business is as usual. If you ignore meddling with Windows (which corporate users don't do anyway), using your applications on Windows 8 really does not differ from using them on Windows 7.
Beside that, 8 boots much faster than 7, seems to be very stable, gives nice perks like multi-boot from VHDs, handles updates better and have number of tweaks compared to Windows 7. Beside agreeing or disagreeing with visual dissonance between Metro and desktop, and lack of Aero on desktop, there is nothing for users to hate. And those are visual, not functional "issues".

Nikon these comments (especially words I highlighted in bold) bothered  me, since I read in a few articles, where corporate World are not ready to upgrade to Windows 8 and their give negative feedback on metro style touchscreen interface. So I thought before anyone starts stating that I am pulling words out of the air, I found the article which I had read, see below.

 

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/76455.html

 

Small business maybe migrating, but established business are not moved from Windows 7 and some not even from XP!

 

BTW: I got my first blue screen from Windows 8 today, well not blue, but the bloody software stopped working and I had to physically pull my computer plug out the socket. I think my iMac had indigestion.

post #63 of 122

of course Microsoft is going to try to leverage their monopoly to stop the BYOD movement. When people have a choice, they do not use a super slow, crappy Microsoft OS running on crappy PC cloner hardware.  Not to mention all the crippleware IT departments put on their Windows boxes to try and make the fundamentally insecure Windows OS more secure which is laughable as every month a new virus/worm spams work email.

 

I ask all the time if i can bring in my own machine but the brain dead Microsoft drone IT department has bought the Microsoft propaganda hook line and sinker.

post #64 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I stopped at "Microsoft is largely irrelevant to computing of late".
You shouldn't be wasting our time with nonsense.
If you like nonsense, though, just google "Apple has failed". Same crap, different name.

In what way do you think they are relevant? What trends in computing, or technology generally, are taking, or have taken, direction from Microsoft lately? They've been irrelevant to computing for at least the last five years, perhaps even longer.
post #65 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

In what way do you think they are relevant? What trends in computing, or technology generally, are taking, or have taken, direction from Microsoft lately? They've been irrelevant to computing for at least the last five years, perhaps even longer.

I utterly disagree with this statement!

It's been more like ten years...

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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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post #66 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

The disturbing thing about Microsoft's suicidal tendencies is that once their rusting oil tanker finally drifts to a halt and sinks, Apple, having won, will inevitably _become_ Microsoft.

 

No, Apple will not become the next Microsoft, because it has an entirely different business model. 

post #67 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


In contrast, look at OS X Server. $20 with unlimited client licensing.
So much for the Apple Tax.

You are kidding right? its just a bunch of namagment apps that run on a desktop OS on desktop hardware, the mac mini is not a server class device just because Apple says it is - where is the redundancy? every component in a macpro or mac mini is a single point of failure with the possible exception of the dual nics in the pro. Can I install VMs of OSX "SERVER" on my company's large blade cluster ESX environment for production purposes? me thinks not...

 

There is another issue, OSX Server installs everything and treats the user with kid gloves, this takes a larger amount of resources than are necessary. Windows server installs just the basics and you add the items you need and nothing else. You can even run windows server with NO GUI at all... in fact going forward that is becoming a preferred method in many scenarios.

 

Just because a product is called a server doesn't mean that it is a server class OS. OSX Server as it stands now, is just a nice add on tool set for OSX Desktop.

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post #68 of 122
You have got to be kidding me.
post #69 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajverbrugh View Post

"Methinks this will come back and bite them in their greedy little behinds."

 

Time to move to Linux Servers
 

Not so fast - A fully supported version of RHEL is about $1200 per server, a Windows server 2012 Standard license is about $900

You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #70 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

You are kidding right? its just a bunch of namagment apps that run on a desktop OS on desktop hardware, the mac mini is not a server class device just because Apple says it is - where is the redundancy? every component in a macpro or mac mini is a single point of failure with the possible exception of the dual nics in the pro. Can I install VMs of OSX "SERVER" on my company's large blade cluster ESX environment for production purposes? me thinks not...

 

There is another issue, OSX Server installs everything and treats the user with kid gloves, this takes a larger amount of resources than are necessary. Windows server installs just the basics and you add the items you need and nothing else. You can even run windows server with NO GUI at all... in fact going forward that is becoming a preferred method in many scenarios.

 

Just because a product is called a server doesn't mean that it is a server class OS. OSX Server as it stands now, is just a nice add on tool set for OSX Desktop.

 

Redundancy is an outdated concept, it's replaced - many years ago - by cheap of the shelf computers and components and a Mac mini qualifies as such.

And as far as I know you can virtualize the latest version of Mac OS X Server (you do need to buy a separate license for it).

If you need servers the best (and most obvious) way is to use linux, most of the internet runs on it so it should scale well for any organization.

Mac OS X Server would be a great choice to manage it all.

 

J.

post #71 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Not so fast - A fully supported version of RHEL is about $1200 per server, a Windows server 2012 Standard license is about $900

 

Who pays your posts?

 

J.

post #72 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

Redundancy is an outdated concept, it's replaced - many years ago - by cheap of the shelf computers and components and a Mac mini qualifies as such.

And as far as I know you can virtualize the latest version of Mac OS X Server (you do need to buy a separate license for it).

If you need servers the best (and most obvious) way is to use linux, most of the internet runs on it so it should scale well for any organization.

Mac OS X Server would be a great choice to manage it all.

 

J.

Ive worked in places where outages can cost upwards of $10,000/minute or $600,000 per hour. I have seen what happens when managers and executives fail to buy redundancy up front and there is a failure down the road - I have seen the lack of a redundant core switch take out a whole data center for an hour and a half - Trust me you do not want to be in the room when the IT director is explaining to the C-levels why his $30,000 savings cost the company about $1,000,000 in business.

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post #73 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

remember the good ole days when people said Apple was doomed, Apple should liquidate and repay the share holders, and other things like that...well MS is still massively larger than Apple was at the time, and still very profitable.
MS is nowhere near death spiral...not everyone lives in the apple stores warm glo - some of us live in reality...

They may not be in a death spiral, but they sure are bleeding profusely. Their recent Windows offerings are a total pile of shit that is going to hurt them for quite some time. There is no end in sight for this train wreck.
post #74 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

Who pays your posts?

 

J.

no one - I just happen to have real world experience in the enterprise, I am trying to add my insight to the conversation. and for the record, Apple makes good stuff, I like OSX and ran it till a couple weeks ago when I retired my MacBook bc it can no longer run modern OSX, I do plan to buy a new mac in the next few months and have sold my family on Macs and iPhones, I am buying my mom an ipad for Christmas, and so on...so I am far from an Apple hater or a shill...

You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #75 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I have been using it since early September. And your point is..?

That its a pile of shit.
post #76 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

Sooo... when you leave the Apple Store's warm glow, it's suddenly 1996 and Apple is doomed again? LOL. Your "reality" = "the good ole days."

Forgive my lack of clarity, I am not saying Apple is doomed, far from it - I am saying that to say MS is doomed is just as short sighted as those who said Apple was doomed.

You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #77 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Honestly? I'm yet to see a person that I know to be using Windows 8 and hating it. Beside having it on half our computers, Win 8 machines have started leaking into our corporate users. Since all of them are using business apps which run on desktop, all of Metro they see is Start screen, which some like, and some are indifferent. No haters yet. After that, business is as usual. If you ignore meddling with Windows (which corporate users don't do anyway), using your applications on Windows 8 really does not differ from using them on Windows 7.
Beside that, 8 boots much faster than 7, seems to be very stable, gives nice perks like multi-boot from VHDs, handles updates better and have number of tweaks compared to Windows 7. Beside agreeing or disagreeing with visual dissonance between Metro and desktop, and lack of Aero on desktop, there is nothing for users to hate. And those are visual, not functional "issues".

What bullshit! Do you really think all the horrible reviews of WIN 8 and RT are somehow totally off base? Or that people can't read? And one must wonder why they fired the guy in charge of development as soon as they released this pig. So "not hating" it is the threshold of a successful product from MSFT?
Edited by FreeRange - 11/29/12 at 5:20pm
post #78 of 122

The more you tighten your grip, Balmer, the more systems will slip through your fingers

post #79 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post
Just because a product is called a server doesn't mean that it is a server class OS. OSX Server as it stands now, is just a nice add on tool set for OSX Desktop.

Which is really no different than Windows or just about any Unix distro. My Windows Server is nothing more than Windows with some management apps and a few server preloads. If you can point to any substantive difference in model, I'll be surprised.

 

There are no "desktop" OS's any more, not since the NT kernel and OS X replaced earlier systems.

post #80 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Not so fast - A fully supported version of RHEL is about $1200 per server, a Windows server 2012 Standard license is about $900

 

huh?  Not sure where you are coming up with numbers or what you are comparing.  Comparing a crippled Windows Server install (without including all the other Microsoft Server software needed to run it) with a full, unlimited, everything included, all upgrades, etc... RHEL version is a bit of a stretch.  Of course not to mention, if your IT department is clueless, you can get real admins to support you rolling _free_  Linux for much cheaper than RHEL.  Not to mention you can run a complete enterprise stack on said Linux boxes for zero dollars.

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