iPhone 5 doubles Apple's share of US smartphone sales to surpass Android - Page 2

One thing is certain,

 

if Apple release an 5inch iPhone X, with those sharp 1080p displays at 440ppi, they would have twice the demand they are facing now.

 

the other thing that is al certain,

 

Apple cannot keep with the current demand. Imagine how many sales they lose because of it...

Edited by pedromartins - 11/27/12 at 9:42am

While this sounds like great news, 62% of sales in the US market went to existing customers. If Apple's model is to grow the user base so that more "Apps" will be bought and more Apple tethered revenue streams are exploited, the 62% repurchase rate is alarming. While it shows consumer loyalty, Apple only makes part of its profit on the phone. The rest is on purchases on the App store or from iTunes. They need more new customers, not the same customers throwing their old phones away and buy an new model. Those people don't purchase new apps.

 

I doubt that gravely.

And I wonder why, since that's the only big reason that makes people buy highend Android phones instead of the iPhone (they lose on everything else). Android itself offers nothing to the vast majority of users.

 

It has nothing to do with phone size, it's all about what's on the price tag.

 

Every market share leader in every mass market product category in the world is the one who prices their products the lowest, bar none.  However, the market share leader isn't always the profit leader, and is very rarely the product quality leader.  Investors care about the profit leader, and enthusiasts care about the quality leader.  Everyone else is just looking at numbers.

Apple cares about Europe and knows that penetration in China will dwarf all possible penetration of sales in Europe.

I think the question should be: if an Android phone were to cost $700, how many people would buy them? Will it increase iPhone sales numbers?

38% are new customers equates to at least triple what anyone would expect. That will mainly be due to more carrier options.

There is a time I would have thought this with 100% certainty. However now, the 4" transition is starting to feel definitely as though it falls in the "Me too" category.

I can understand why some people might like a 16:9 larger screen. But I personally can't stand it. Despite Apple's claims, it is harder to operate with a single hand, and I have big hands, as my thumb can't access the entire screen without awkwardly shifting my hand position. A petite girlfriend of mine used to be able to operate her iPhone with one hand, but now needs to use both (and surprisingly doesn't seem to care). And viewing pictures just looks weird.

My own philosophy about phones, smart or otherwise, is that they should be as small and portable as practical. The original iPhone form factor I felt hit this mark perfectly, and what happens? As soon as they are making it thinner, lighter, and smaller so as to fit even more easily into my jeans pocket, they go and make it significantly longer. And to me, this seems to be exactly the marketing approach Android took to distinguish itself from the iPhone -- "the iPhone's screen is too small to use it effectively, and android has recognized this and made a superior larger phone for the customer's ease of use", despite the fact it is much less portable and therefore practical. Which of course led to an explosion of people using these ridiculously oversized phones anyway, looking more like mini tablets, the use of which has been largely derided on this forum. Now Apple makes a larger form factor, and it is enthusiastically embraced. Again, I can see the appeal for some, but I honestly can never remember reading anything about iPhone customers wishing they had a larger screen. So to me, this seems like Apple looking at the Android larger form factor selling trends and attempting a compromise to eat into Google's market share.

So very surprised to read that the larger screen is a major selling point to customers. To some yes, but to most ...? It's hard to believe I'm the only one that feels this way ...

My only hope is that Apple continues to sell the smaller iPhone 4S form factor after the two year depreciation window, and that they will continue to develop it, making it smaller and lighter over time. Sort of an iPhone and iPhone mini, which is essentially what they have now. It would certainly be a great way to distinguish the top of the line iPhone and justify the price points. I guess only time will tell.
Edited by Mac_128 - 11/27/12 at 10:31am

I think it is going to be difficult for apple to compete with such a variety of different handset form factors that other manufacturers seem to be producing. Just because you may believe that the iPhone 4 / 4S / 5 is the ideal phone for you doesn't mean everyone will. Just in the same way that I don't think I would want a 5.5 inch phone like the Galaxy Note 2 etc. but for a few million it obviously  meets their needs. 

 

Either Apple will have to consider introducing a few different form factors - an iPhone mini or iPhone max perhaps - or I don't see how Apple can continue to command worldwide market share as in many ways we are reaching a point of feature parity with the operating systems etc.

 

Oh and can we stop with the jingoistic nonsense that those of us living in Europe are somehow living in caves and therefore are only buying android phones out of ignorance or financial necessity. Not everyone will want the same thing from a phone - get over it.

 

 It was a joke because, historically, many Europeans love to rub in the fact that their brands are higher quality than North American brands (and slam us for being ignorant consumers).  Which, honestly, I do agree that many are (food especially).  But now that things are reversed...

 

As for phone size, I'd like to see research showing how many cases there are where that is the deciding factor in a purchase.  I'd be willing to wager that cost outweighs size by a large margin.  The guise of "open" vs "closed" technology also seems to be a heavy factor in some parts of Europe in my experience.

Agreed, Apple doesn't need to compete with the variety of the Android phones ... The 5 seems to be a compromise, and by its sales figures, a good one. Unless this Android trend of using sub-mini tablets as phones, I would expect Apple to stick with this size.

But realistically, the larger Android phones are just that, LARGER, more screen real estate and generally bigger so the phone can be held more comfortably from the eyes. The extra height, or width, on the iPhone 5 is negligible. The resolution is the same, and that little bit extra on the edge doesn't improve MY ability to use the phone, much of which is wasted space. I suppose people watching movies or playing games on their iPhones will love this, but for everything else, I just don't see the trade off. The Retina display is the single greatest improvement to the iPhone, or any small mobile device for that matter. These are the kinds of things that improve use, not marginal screen increases.

But you are right, just because it doesn't appeal to me, doesn't mean it won't to others, and I said as much above. I just don't get it. Mobile phones should be moving in the opposite direction, getting smaller and lighter, not larger and more power hungry. Give me an iPhone not much larger than the original screen. It won't be any less usable and a heck of a lot more mobile. Am I the only person who wants this?

 

Vodafone Australia iPads have tethering enabled, for the new (4G that is not 4G) iPad and the newer "retina" iPad.

This thread is the usual nonsense.

1) Europe is as a continent about as rich as the US. Western Europe in particular.
2) losing the market in Europe would be a major strategic error, as was the loss of marketshare during the 90's. iOS is a platform not just a device.
3) the reason Apple does so well in the US is the higher carrier subsidy which makes an iPhone the equivalent price with contract as any android device. In Europe the iPhone 5 is more expensive than the SIII. Other reasons - Siri was no use in Europe for a whole year. Where am I? Sorry, I can only do maps or anything vaguely useful in the US and in US English.
4) if they don't get a large market share in Europe they won't in China.
5) I can't see Apple selling just 1 phone a year for the rest of its time as a phone manufacturer. It doesn't need too many models, maybe maximum 3.
6) an obvious low end model would be the iPod touch form factor with a sim. Hardly a reduction in "build quality".
7) there's a chance to gain back Android users as there is less of a software lockdown on phones compared to pcs. So still a chance. I can see Apple at 30-35% market share but they need more models and one cheap one.

That said: Its better to be big in America than Big in Japan. Or Europe. Silicon Valley venture capital will flow to what it knows. From that base Apple can retake Europes. Its like Normandy all over again.

Here's my attempt at clarification:

 

1. Apple needs to provide lower cost options!  Wrong.  Instead, Apple is balancing supply and demand.  If they can't produce it fast enough, then why in the hell would they lower the price?  Maybe when they can produce more/faster at the high quality requirements, they will think of lowering price.

 

2. Apple doesn't care about market share!  Wrong.  Of course they care about market share especially when it comes to strategic objectives of critical mass to a specific platform.  The iOS platform is a very important platform in which to sell hardware and to maintain addiction to its ecosystem.  iOS is kicking ass in almost every major market.  Halo effect of iOS is definitely a valuable growth engine for Mac (OSX).  Europe is still a blip on the radar.  Important, but still only a blip (at this time).

 

3. Apple should provide ALL form factors from small to big and cheap to expensive!  Wrong.  Again, look at #1 and #2 above.  Apple will present new form factors (like the iPad Mini) only when supply/demand issues can be resolved AND when market share concerns arise.  A certain amount of "loss" of market share is strategic in order to maintain cost efficiencies (in both COGS and R&D)...fortunately, Apple can absorb this "loss" by managing the game clock, then offer new form factors and price points when the time is right.

 

I'm one of those who thinks that a smaller form factor iPhone is inevitable.  It will have functional handicaps, thereby reducing data use...therefore, carriers can offer them at a VERY low cost (i.e. almost no upfront cost and with reasonable data plans).

 

Here's to making this board a more sane, tolerant, and enjoyable forum.

 

Huh. Look at that. They sell three right now.

Three models, all updated every year, not last years stuff. If Apple ran their mac line like that there would be one model, a Mac Pro - no mini, or mac book - and you can have this year's model, or last years, or the model of the year before, and that would be it.

 

All three models are updated every year. The free model gets better, the $99 model gets better, and the $199 model gets better.

 

Your point being what? You obviously know that Apple is doing this wrong, because they're getting 75% of all the profits in the ENTIRE PHONE INDUSTRY. Yeah, you know exactly what they're doing wrong. My STARS, man! You're whining about problems with Apple when its the European telecoms that are the problem! 

 

I dont think there will be a smaller form factor, lighter maybe, a la the iPod touch. I take your point on the demand constraints but I am talking longer term, and in any case with 3 releases a year - in my preferred scenario - any one release will not be so big as to cause supply constraints.

 

 

It is, to a certain extent the "fault" of European telecoms - in that they don't subsidise the iPhone as much in Europe. Apple will be able to bypass said telecoms with PAYG sim free unlocked iPhones with the iPod form factor. I see this as inevitable, however it may harm margins, so they probably need something else to sell to make the margins back - I say a big old LCD Television with 50% margins, or $1000 per device. Then they can take a hit on overall iPhone margins.

Why don't you people just come out and say what you really think: you want Apple to sell cheap-ass Android phones pre-rooted and preloaded with spyware with 19" OLED screens that you can't fit in your pocket or see in modest sunlight?

 

Why do they need a brand new product line. Why. I need a reason. There's nothing that can be done with one that can't with the existing models.

 

Just like in aught eight when the iPhone nano was "inevitable". Right.

 

Completely nonsensical.

Then they must be going nuts for the iPad mini since anyone wanting a giant "phone" doesn't want a phone at all, they want a cellular data enabled tablet that's portable: AKA: iPad Mini!

 

Plus, no expensive voice contract!.

I never thought the nano was inevitable - I think you are harping on the nano as it is the only thing you got right in the last five years. As for the "nonsensical" part - thats the method to keep up overall margins - you protect overall margins by replacing the existing high end product with another over time. IPod to iPhone. iPhone to Apple TV. 

 

You have a strange conservatism for a follower of a most innovative consumer electronic company, you were "right" about the nano only because your default position on any rumoured  product is that will never happen, the most obvious being the mini. You didn't think the mini was happening when pictures of the parts were three a penny on the internet.  And as for the TV,  I mean Jobs said there will be a TV, and even then, you remain unconvinced. But let me say it here. There will be a TV.

 

You can believe that going forward Apple will only have one expensive phone replenished once a year, and no new product ever.  Nothing else to see here. Put a fork in R+D. Tis done. From now incremental upgrades, and market share be damned. 

 

I don't believe that and I say the will produce other iOS categories; and a separate model to the iPhone - one which is not last years model - is hardly the most radical suggestion ever. 

You don't know what you're talking about. For starters, our laws do not require phones to be unlocked until we've fully paid for them, and secondly carriers not caring is an Apple issue, not a carrier issue; carriers have clients regardless of whether they subsidize the iPhone or not.

65% of people who own android phones don't even know it.

Why so much hate against anything that is not like you?

I've had a iPhone 3, 3GS & 4. Seriously getting tired of Apples miniscule upgrades and lack of customization in iOS. Seriously considering jumping to an android phone next go around as I will NOT be buying an iPhone 5 which should have been called a 4.1...

At some point saturation might make that the best move for the company but I don't think they do that to succeed.

4.1? So it's not just the 6th gen iPhone replacing the iPhone 4S but a downgrade from the 4S to be slightly above the iPhone 4. Makes perfect sense¡

Let's also note that the iPhone 5 is the most significant YoY change the product line has ever seen and yet you have deemed it just slightly above the iPhone 4. Again, makes perfect sense¡

Ok, should have been 4.2. Other phones in the iPhone 4 gen had LTE and apples refusal to let us customize the lock screen is well stupid.
Edited by TonyZ - 11/27/12 at 2:43pm

So it's certain that Apple would have twice the demand if they doubled the screen size? Your evidence is......????

For me, I will be buying the iPhone 5, but would not buy one with a 5" screen - it's too big. So it's not a foregone conclusion that a larger phone would sell better (Verizon ads notwithstanding). So why are you so certain that there would be twice the demand? Evidence, not your unfounded, biased opinion, please.

There are plenty of reasons why people buy Android phones besides the screen size:

1. Price. Some Android phones are extremely cheap and low quality (bordering on feature phone status). Only a tiny percentage of Android phones are in the same price range as the iPhone.

2. Spiffs. Many carriers offer spiffs (incentives) to associates selling Android phones. Because of this, the sales people often drive customers to Android, even telling lies to do so.

3. Availability. Some people need a phone at a time when the iPhone is in short supply so they buy an Android phone so they have something.

4. ABA. Anything but Apple. There are a significant number of people who simply refuse to buy Apple products because of some irrational hatred. Many of them are influential and convince their friends not to buy Apple products, as well.

5. FUD. There is an enormous amount of FUD out there about Apple. Every little glitch creates a $hitstorm of criticism. For example, the Maps issue. In spite of the fact that most reviews which actually attempted broad-based comparisons found that Apple Maps was about as good as Google Maps, the media made it look like Apple Maps would get you lost.

There are others, but that's enough to disprove your point. You can't simply pretend that people only buy Android phones because their screens are larger. If that were the case, why are so many Android phones with small screens still being sold?

 

Nor did I imply that. Apologies if you thought I was. I was saying that your insistence in this matter, as it pertains to the same subject, is akin to the thinking back then.

 

 

When depressed, the little moments where you laugh are the best, however brief. I laugh because its wrong.

 

 

A, not the. And I fail to see how, given that the target for both devices has almost zero in common.

 

 

Because it PAYS to be pessimistic. You start getting optimistic and fantastical, not only do people laugh in your face at how stupid your ideas are, you get others who don't talk all hopped up on the idea that it might be possible. Then it comes out and is nothing like what they heard and they're all mad and entitled.

 

 

More lies. I was right because I knew people wouldn't want a screen that small on a touchscreen phone. I really want to try out the new iPod nano, since that's the size of screen people wanted for an iPhone. Can you even IMAGINE? My default position is conservatism, not that "any" product won't happen. 

 

I have ludicrously "outlandish" ideas. I think different. I ignore the mold. And I get laughed at for it because people refuse to see more than five years out. My ideas are a vision for a better future, not a near-future. Not a present. I don't present them due to off-hand dismissal.

 

 

Man, you're not paying attention to me at all, are you? I specifically stated I believed it after having seen one.

 

1) He said absolutely nothing of the sort.

2) He's dead. What he thought was meaningless. Hence the iPad mini.

 

 

You and Ireland, man. Who in their right mind would buy a $2,500 40" TV that does the same thing as a $999 60" TV and $99 Apple TV… but WORSE?

 

Ah. Yes. I believe that. 😒

 

 

Stay tuned. What iOS turns into will be beautiful.

 

But so far it has been the most wrong. And if it happens, having said it right now will NOT have made you "right".

No, the 4th gen iPhone didn't have LTE.

IMO, it's stupid to be upset about the lock screen.

I agree mostly. But there is a clear segment of the ABA crowd preferring the phablet over the slightly smaller Android phones. Those people are deliberately choosing the Galaxy Note over the Galaxy S3. And they are not all geezers. I am not saying Apple should make a bigger phone to go after that market. But that market clearly exists.

Is it?

The major changes are:

- LTE
- thinness
- weight loss
- larger screen

Personally, after using it for almost 2 months now, I barely notice it to be much different than the iPhone 4 (i.e. I have gotten used to the improvements). To be fair, I no longer feel the wow of the thinness because I purchased a case after 3 weeks. But I remember the first upgrade to Retina Display having a longer lasting impression.

 

Case redesign, new port, new telephony, new CPU…

All good points. But, to me, the sum total does not enhance my user experience as much as what Retina Display did. Furthermore, RD also catalyzed changes in (i) design of other phones (> 300 ppi is now the default), (ii) design of computer screens (RP ported over to tablets and now laptops), (iii) design of websites and apps.

To me (and I emphasize this is my opinion), Retina Display was the first step in a minor revolution across the computing industry whereas iPhone 5 improvements are all Apple-centric evolutions.

Having said this, iPhone 5 remains my favorite phone ever.