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Apple fires iOS 6 Maps chief - Page 4

post #121 of 153

Apple wouldn't lie. That would be like Santa telling you're gonna get something for Christmas and you go out to the tree and it's not there! Nooooo!

 

I watched the keynote and Maps was flawless. No way would Apple show something insanely great and then ship something Meh... Tell me that didn't happen!!!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #122 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Sounds like Google Maps in China :P (Slightly larger than the Cayman Islands, and slightly less likely to get fixed any time soon, compared to Apple fixing the Cayman Islands which is a sure bet. Google Maps are limited in China compared to Apple’s new data sources. Note that I don’t fault Google for having bad relations with China—I’m on Google’s side! But the facts for users of maps remain.)

It's not the same thing. Cayman Islands HAD maps and Apple REMOVED it! China didn't had good maps and now they have. That's ok, but you can not screw people and say: "Hey, I screwed you, but... it's better for other people, so you should be happy!".
I don't have movies in iTunes and I don't complain because I never had them in the first place. I knew when I bought the iPhone that I will not have movies and it was my decision to buy the iPhone knowing that I will have limited functionality. But I would be mad like hell if I had movies and then Apple decided to remove them!
post #123 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Apple wouldn't lie. That would be like Santa telling you're gonna get something for Christmas and you go out to the tree and it's not there! Nooooo!

I watched the keynote and Maps was flawless. No way would Apple show something insanely great and then ship something Meh... Tell me that didn't happen!!!

That's the thing. It's just not expected of Apple. The brand tells you in some way what you should get. In this case, we didn't ~quite~ get what we wanted, whiners or no whiners.

The "-gate-ness" of it can be reflected in the facts. Antenna-gate: signal drop when holding it a certain way. Was it overblown? Yes. Was it an illegitimate gripe? No. Same for maps.
post #124 of 153
Now to see how fast they are going to turn this thing around and improve the maps experience. I don't see anything happening before iOS 7. That would be a big fail. It will be interesting to see the next couple of years on how apple is going to fare.
post #125 of 153
The maps used by Apple are still very crappy outside US. Particularly in Asia.
Big downside from what Google is providing.

The US version of Apple Maps is much much better than what we are having outside. This is the most critical point.
post #126 of 153

No, the China version of Apple Maps, when the user is located in China is worth than the google version for many reason like the poor search results, slower speed and weird design. 

post #127 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Sounds like Google Maps in China :P (Slightly larger than the Cayman Islands, and slightly less likely to get fixed any time soon, compared to Apple fixing the Cayman Islands which is a sure bet. Google Maps are limited in China compared to Apple’s new data sources. Note that I don’t fault Google for having bad relations with China—I’m on Google’s side! But the facts for users of maps remain.)

No, the China version of Apple Maps, when the user is located in China is worth than the google version for many reason like the poor search results, slower speed and weird design.

post #128 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post


It's not the same thing. Cayman Islands HAD maps and Apple REMOVED it! China didn't had good maps and now they have. That's ok, but you can not screw people and say: "Hey, I screwed you, but... it's better for other people, so you should be happy!".
I don't have movies in iTunes and I don't complain because I never had them in the first place. I knew when I bought the iPhone that I will not have movies and it was my decision to buy the iPhone knowing that I will have limited functionality. But I would be mad like hell if I had movies and then Apple decided to remove them!

No, the China version of Apple Maps, when the user is located in China is worth than the google version for many reason like the poor search results, slower speed and weird design.

post #129 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yes, I agree. I was hoping it would happen quick, but I am not surprised it is taking time. I just hope Apple is really serious about maps. It is a key feature for me.

How about Facetime, heh?

 

Currently, sounds cuts off on Snow Leopard's Facetime after 5 minutes and you need to reboot the Mac to get it back. Key feature, according to the Apple Website.

 

 

“And we’re going to take it all the way. We’re going to the standards bodies, starting tomorrow, and we’re going to make FaceTime an open industry standard.”

Steve Jobs

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #130 of 153
Compared to Nokia's recent effort on a maps app, the Apple maps is ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Nokia's app is an absolute embarrassment, and yet no one really cares. Perhaps people are just used to Microsoft and Co. producing shoddy crap, whereas Apple has always set the bar extremely high.
post #131 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post

Compared to Nokia's recent effort on a maps app, the Apple maps is ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Nokia's app is an absolute embarrassment, and yet no one really cares. Perhaps people are just used to Microsoft and Co. producing shoddy crap, whereas Apple has always set the bar extremely high.

That's the thing. iOS 5 Maps had a "high bar", so even worse for Apple when they don't meet their ~own previous~ map standards. If the iPhone launched with this then there would be chuckles and jeers but Steve woud fix it in time. This is going backwards.

Again, I don't think an "apology letter" was needed, and certainly Scott Forstall needn't have been bullied on this (assuming said story is true).
post #132 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Lets not fire everyone.
The AppStore app is exellent on iPad 3.
No lag, no stutter.
J.

It just works...

post #133 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Lets not fire everyone.
The AppStore app is exellent on iPad 3.
No lag, no stutter.
J.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

No it's not. I have an iPad 3.

 

It is pure crap. the old one was much better.

 

Except when it doesn't. Apparently.

post #134 of 153
I dropped into an official Apple Store today. This time last year I couldn't get my hands off everything there. Now...

iPod touch ... a bit of a funny shape
iPod nano ... a bit off
iPod shuffle ... OK
iPad 4 ... nice but still a bit heavy
iPad 2 ... why are they still selling this?
iPad mini ... screen is blurry and colours not great
MBP Retina 13" ... some lag with App Store
MBP Retina 15" ... nice but hmm...
iMac 21" ... MIA
iMac 27" ... MIA
Mac Pro ... MIA
iPhone 5 ... OK
post #135 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palex19 View Post

No, the China version of Apple Maps, when the user is located in China is worth than the google version for many reason like the poor search results, slower speed and weird design. 

Funny how the Google shills come out of the woodwork and post the same message multiple times - but never have any facts to back it up.

It has been widely reported that Apple Maps is better in China than Google Maps. Even people who consistently attack Apple's Maps program admit that it performs better in China:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/apple-maps-better-google-china-120020900.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/27/apple_maps_works_in_china/

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47692/apple-maps-is-better-than-google-maps

http://www.macworld.com/article/2013571/google-maps-usage-in-china-plummets-with-apple-ios-upgrade.html

So where is the evidence to back your claim?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #136 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

Holy s**t I just only found out through this article that Scott Forstall left. I knew something felt funny at (or it was just me) Apple this past November.

Forstall doesn't leave until next year but I agree something doesn't feel right.
post #137 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Oh, like missing every single street in Cayman Islands for example? You do know that a MAP app should be global right? Not just around your house! The people of Cayman Islands had a perfectly good map WITH STREETS, and then suddenly NO MORE STREETS for them! Do you think that could be a problem?

Funny how so many people seem to confuse "imperfect" with "worthless".

No one ever said that Apple Maps was perfect. Google Maps isn't perfect, either. Neither is Nokia Maps or Tom Tom or any other mapping system.

If you live in the Cayman Island (or travel there), this is obviously a problem. But, overall, most comparisons say that Apple's Maps is not the disaster that people like you accuse if of being. It's interesting how thousands of people who probably can't even find Cayman Islands on a map manage to find out that Maps doesn't work there and start screaming shrilly about it.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #138 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

How does it make sense to fire someone who's had a hand in development of maps since the beginning- wouldnt this person be in the best position to have insight into what improvements to make, etc, instead of going out and looking for something new?

Fully agree! I have seen this 'behavior' in many companies, and it always had negative results. To me, everyone will be better served if the person or department responsible will take a different approach and also make use of Lessons Learned, and the experience gained in the process.


@sr2012

1. Cut. It. Out. Please.
2. Use the multi quote button please; it benefits others greatly.
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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post #139 of 153
Maps ridiculed???
On the contrary. According to DED, tallest, solli ed all, this is the absolutely best mapping software available!
post #140 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

@sr2012
1. Cut. It. Out. Please.
2. Use the multi quote button please; it benefits others greatly.

Fineeee. I aim to please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I have an iPad 3, and the icons are gray for several minutes. Pretty cheesy.

That only started happening recently where they were gray for very long. I noticed that only a few weeks ago.
post #141 of 153
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Why is Teckstud still posting?

 

Who do you believe he is? I'll axe the psychopath again.


Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post
You do know that a MAP app should be global right? Not just around your house!

 

Sounds like you don't, though. You only seem concerned with one part of the world, quite probably just around your house.


Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
According to DED, tallest, solli ed all, this is the absolutely best mapping software available!

 

At no point have I said that. Please remove me from your list of insanity. Note that I refer to the list as being the thing that is insane, not its contents.

post #142 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


Consider the only general public release is 6.01 since the initial Maps.app release I'd expect you wouldn't get bug fixes yet. Especially when Apple is focused on making a large Maps.framework available for 3rd party devs to leverage and extend its functionality.

The maps are server based. Fixes doesn't need a new release, and I've seen lots of fixes around here where I'm located.

JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #143 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm sure some people on here will still deny that there was ever a problem with iOS 6 Maps.

 

A number probably inversely proportional to those who claim there have never been any problems with the alternatives at all, ever.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #144 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

The maps are server based. Fixes doesn't need a new release, and I've seen lots of fixes around here where I'm located.

The problem is Yelp. In Australia Yelp hasn't quite caught on yet, in a variety of cities.

The business searches are... hmm... quite bad, really.

Apple's insistence on suddenly switching everything to Yelp is also a major, major issue around the world.
post #145 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

The maps are server based. Fixes doesn't need a new release, and I've seen lots of fixes around here where I'm located.

It cuts both ways. The design of the server backend and the client frontend are evolving. How it is architected will be shaped on how the needs and anticipated needs of customers shapes the direction of what they are strong on and weak on. The frameworks being developed will evolve as they address the demands of customers and goals of Apple with 3rd party devs in the areas they want made available for 3rd party functionality.
post #146 of 153

Maps thinks my 100 year old office building here in Austin is a parking garage located a block and a half away.  I have sent corrections to Apple on several occasions from different phones.  Also, Maps could not find a street with a POI in Wichita Falls TX this weekend, but neither could the shitty navigation system in our Toyota.  The street does not exist according to Maps, but Google has it.  Neither are huge issues, but it would be nice to see a bigger effort on the part of Apple to get this stuff sorted.  Maybe this personnel change is exactly that.

post #147 of 153

When are they going to add turn by turn navigation for the inside of my house - ya know - in case I need to get around in the middle of the night during a power outage? 

post #148 of 153
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post
When are they going to add turn by turn navigation for the inside of my house - ya know - in case I need to get around in the middle of the night during a power outage? 

 

Wasn't Google actually adding interior directions for some stuff? lol.gif I never got that.

post #149 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post


It's not the same thing. Cayman Islands HAD maps and Apple REMOVED it! China didn't had good maps and now they have. That's ok, but you can not screw people and say: "Hey, I screwed you, but... it's better for other people, so you should be happy!".
I don't have movies in iTunes and I don't complain because I never had them in the first place. I knew when I bought the iPhone that I will not have movies and it was my decision to buy the iPhone knowing that I will have limited functionality. But I would be mad like hell if I had movies and then Apple decided to remove them!

 

Just keep the water on your left!

 

(Just kidding... I of course agree that the temporary loss of maps for Cayman Island dwellers--like yourself I assume?--is a problem. It’s just a problem that can be put in perspective. Cayman Island residents can get STILL get around using their iPhone with other free mapping systems—including the same old Google web maps they had before—during this temporary transition. Is this equally just a temporary transition for Google users in China, which is, we must admit, a rather larger chunk of people? How many weeks will Cayman residents face missing streets vs. how many weeks will Chinese Google users face them?)

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Palex19 View Post

The maps used by Apple are still very crappy outside US. Particularly in Asia.
Big downside from what Google is providing.
The US version of Apple Maps is much much better than what we are having outside. This is the most critical point.
 

I wouldn’t say Apple is worse than Google “particularly in Asia” unless you exclude China:

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/gadget/314283/apple-maps-better-than-google-in-china

 

P.S. In reply to nobody in particular...

 

A quick anatomy of Apple scandals-of-the-week:

 

1. Big leaps forward arrive coupled with limited problems. (A success any other company would kill for.)

 

2. Cries of doom from “analysts,” astroturfers, and ad-baiting lazy "journalists." (And of course they ignore massive problems with Apple’s competitors.)

 

3. Rational Apple appreciators post: “Yes, there are problems, but they are overblown and there are great things as well. The alternatives are far from perfect."

 

4. Emotional anti-Apple trolls post: “As usual, the fanboiz say there are no problems!” (And of course they ignore massive problems with Apple’s competitors.)

 

5. Repeat steps 3 and 4. Artie McStrawman lives!


Edited by nagromme - 11/28/12 at 11:27am
post #150 of 153
@nagromme denialism put in a package of rationalism...
post #151 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Let the rampant speculation begin. Oh, looks like you guys started without me 1smile.gif
I for one think it is a good thing. It's far more common in companies to keep people with tenure in positions of power and whitewash their failures (I'm looking at you, Ballmer) than to drop them. According to Adam Lashinsky's book (and the Fortune article it was based on) "Inside Apple", there's always a DRI (directly responsible individual) for any project at Apple, so there shouldn't be any question about who failed to execute.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no.   Maybe the head of the project asked for more budget to acquire more databases and was told, "no".   Maybe they wanted to hire more people with appropriate expertise and was told "no, we have all the right people".     Maybe they knew of the flaws but were told by others in management, "are you kidding?   This looks so cool and is so much better than Google Maps that the flaws don't matter.  We'll fix them over time."    Or maybe it was the reverse - maybe the guy blew the project.    But unless you're an insider,  you never really know.  I've been involved in all such scenarios.  Sometimes, senior execs make bad decisions and then conveniently forget that they made them.  

 

And don't forget the "Six Stages of Any Project":

1. Enthusiasm

2. Disillusionment

3. Panic and Hysteria

4. Search for the Guilty

5. Punishment of the Innocent

6. Praise and Honors for the Non-Participants

 

 

Meanwhile, my experience with Maps so far (about two weeks) has been relatively good.    Google Maps on my iPhone 3G was so slow (or it would simply lock up) as to be unusable most of the time.    Apple Maps on my iPhone 5 is spectacularly fast.    One thing that does appear to be missing (unless I'm missing it) is that once I choose a route, I want to manually go through all the steps in the route and be able to listen to the turn-by-turn before I set out.    And I'm much more concerned with either bad routes (which Google gave me all the time) or bad location information than I am with a deformed image of a bridge.    I also think that Apple HAS to add public transportation information.   They can add trains first and add major bus routes later.    Adding trains shouldn't be that difficult - most transit systems have their maps online.   I'd also like to see Apple to add pedestrian and especially bicycle routes, which Google has in Beta.  

 

I find that some of the images are spectacular (look at Coney Island) and others are inferior to what Google Maps had (areas in New York State).    While the Apple images (combined with the retina display) are generally clearer, I think I was able to zoom closer with Google Maps.   

 

The other thing I've noticed is that they tend to have national retailers, but not local ones.    Apple should set up a website or add functionality to the app itself where businesses can submit their locations and keywords.     Seems to me that with such functionality, Apple could add a million or more businesses virtually overnight.   They'd have to deal with validating the information, but it's all doable.  Or they can license phone directories.     

 

Also, it seems that Tom Tom is one of the major map suppliers to Apple.   TomTom is also used extensively in GPS systems for cars, right?   And yet, I've never heard many complaints about the systems used in cars.  Why is that?

post #152 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Also, it seems that Tom Tom is one of the major map suppliers to Apple.   TomTom is also used extensively in GPS systems for cars, right?   And yet, I've never heard many complaints about the systems used in cars.  Why is that?

 

Confirmation bias: some people start with the assumption that everything Apple does is bad for the user (some serious denial there). Other get swept up by the media (and random posting) telling people how terrible something is. When you’re told to look for a problem, you’ll find it, notice it, and care about it... even if you liked your TomTom before. Classic example: look for white vans in your life. Suddenly there will be TONS of them around. There always were: but now you notice.

 

Ditto for Waze, which I’ve heard Android users praise over Google... until Apple started using it (alongside TomTom). If Waze and TomTom were both good enough before, you’d think their combined dataset would be good enough too...

 

I speak from actual personal experience: iOS 6 Maps really IS serving me very well, and better than the old bersion... but I DO notice more little errors with iOS 6 maps than I ever did with the old app! And then I go back on Google, and now I’m noticing them there too... if I hadn’t done so, I’d have assumed iOS 6 Maps was a step down. It’s usually not—and yes, that’s US-specific.

 

(Exactly the same thing happened with antenna problems: people got a BETTER signal with the iPhone 4 than the acclaimed reception of the 3GS... this was tested. But they never noticed how their hand affected the signal on all phones--until the media made them look for it. Thus, you saw lots of trolls bemoaning for OTHER people’s sake how bad the problem was, while actual iPhone 4 owners shrugged and made calls! The iPhone 4 is still sold, and as a two-year user of it, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it—caseless—to anyone. It dropped bars... it didn’t drop calls any more than my 3G, and got a better signal in borderline areas.)

post #153 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

And don't forget the "Six Stages of Any Project":
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic and Hysteria
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honors for the Non-Participants

Too funny!
Quote:
Meanwhile, my experience with Maps so far (about two weeks) has been relatively good.    Google Maps on my iPhone 3G was so slow (or it would simply lock up) as to be unusable most of the time.    Apple Maps on my iPhone 5 is spectacularly fast.

Well, that is a much faster processor you're using; don't know if these should be compared.
Quote:
Apple should set up a website or add functionality to the app itself where businesses can submit their locations and keywords.

I think that would create clutter, something Apple doesn't like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Classic example: look for white vans in your life. Suddenly there will be TONS of them around. There always were: but now you notice.
Fantastic example: buy a yellow* car? "Oh my God, the streets are filled with yellow cars!"

*can be replaced with any colour, it'd still apply.
Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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