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Apple fires iOS 6 Maps chief - Page 2

post #41 of 153

The problem with the Hoover Dam bypass road looks the same in Google Earth. Or at least it did when the new Maps app came out. Other "Problems" people found in the Maps app are duplicated in Google Earth.

post #42 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Isn't is about time we stopped using pictures like this to poke fun at Maps?  

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...
Maps
...

 

Maps does suck, but the reality is that images like this don't actually show "errors" at all and instead show exactly what they are supposed to show.  

 

When in 3D mode the satellite imagery is projected onto a mesh of the geography of the area down to sea level.  This is totally normal.  This picture is showing satellite imagery of the land around Hoover Dam and projecting it onto a 3D mesh of said land.  The only areas where this kind of imagery *isn't* normal and is in fact a "mistake" is when you see something like this in an area covered by flyover.  

 

In a flyover area, someone would have taken the time to do a mesh of that bridge and then manually paste it into the landscape.  It will be many many years before every bridge (especially one in the middle of a desert) to be mapped in this way.  

 

These are not "mistakes" in mapping.  AppleInsider would do better to showcase the actual errors in the data which are prevalent and easy to find, especially once you leave the US.  

 

Most details and locations in Apple Maps for any city in Canada for instance are not only far from reality, they haven't been corrected or changed yet by a single iota.  This is where the problems and mistakes are, outside of the USA.  Please stop with the posting of "fake" glitches as per the above photo and try to focus on the data mistakes and problems with Apple Maps.  They are legion.  

 

Then how do you account for the correct portrayal of the Golden Gate, Brooklyn and several other bridges in NYC?

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post #43 of 153



700

 

Some of the same issues plague Google Earth too!  It seems

Mike O’Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Bridge has a sag.

post #44 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm sure some people on here will still deny that there was ever a problem with iOS 6 Maps.

 

Yup, no major problems here. For basic usage its fine. turn by turn is fine.  Is there errors, on occasion, but less than I had with the old map app.

If lack of 'features' is a 'problem', thats another topic.

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post #45 of 153
Fairly soon, Tim, you are going to find out where the buck actually stops.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #46 of 153

I've read elsewhere that Williamson was moved to the LinkedIn group within Apple. He's not "fired," just moved within the company.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #47 of 153
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Fairly soon, Tim, you are going to find out where the buck actually stops.

 

I don't get it. What's the implication?

post #48 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm sure some people on here will still deny that there was ever a problem with iOS 6 Maps.

You mean people who have never encountered an error or inaccuracy using iOS 6 Maps are in "denial"? Maybe the glass is 93% full, but you'd never know it, what with all the people who deny the glass is 7% empty.

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post #49 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickybill View Post

I have been using Maps since it was available.  I travel extensively for work and use it exclusively.  It has never failed to locate the facilities I'm visiting or made me late for an appointment.  I have no complaints.  I've used Siri to dictate addresses into the app and its worked great.  Even my hard to please boss was impressed.  As a result, he bought the 5.  Its always easy to find faults with something and it appears more people are interested in finding faults with AAPL.  The turn by turn has been fantastic.  I have never used the the 3D so can't speak to it's benefit.  If this is the worst thing that happens to all of us, that's not too bad.

concur. Yea, 3d does not have much use IMO. Street view is nice. This is what bugs me with Apple, they have a gazillion dollars and could do many things to enhance there services... hope they are considering it.

In my humble opinion-

MAPs add Apple 'road view'- pay fedex, USPS etc to put cameras on there trucks or delievery persons etc, mix in some very hard work.

Passport - at each Apple store hire one or two people to go out and canvas businesses to sign up for loyalty cards etc in passport... Boom it takes off.

Siri- why did android beat you for foreign language translation? Buy the company that has the apps. 

Apple made these great 'initial' products, lets hope they follow up taking them to the next level.

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post #50 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't get it. What's the implication?

He's implying that Tim Cook fails to take responsibility for hiring John Browett. Strange, because he fired Browett.

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post #51 of 153
Jesus Christ, how many people is Apple going to fire because of maps, which for me is probably the best part of iOS6 and an insanely impressive feat for a just launched product? Fucking ridiculous.
post #52 of 153
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
Jesus Christ, how many people is Apple going to fire because of maps…

 

We can confirm exactly zero of the recent layoffs as related to Maps. This one is more likely, but still unconfirmed as the reason.

 

Still, it's ridiculous.

post #53 of 153

I've had some more issues lately with points of interest in maps.  For example I was looking up for some nearby Best Buys.  I found one and I do remember the point on the map was correct but when I click the point to start getting directions the actual address was two states over and when I used the directions it was a 7 hour trip instead of 15 minutes (of course I realized it was an error).  I did send a bug report on it in the app so I'll help improve it but I've had this happen several times now so there is clearly some issue in the database because the location on the map is correct but the address isn't even close which is strange.

post #54 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Isn't is about time we stopped using pictures like this to poke fun at Maps?  

 

Maps does suck, but the reality is that images like this don't actually show "errors" at all and instead show exactly what they are supposed to show.  

 

When in 3D mode the satellite imagery is projected onto a mesh of the geography of the area down to sea level.  This is totally normal.  This picture is showing satellite imagery of the land around Hoover Dam and projecting it onto a 3D mesh of said land.  The only areas where this kind of imagery *isn't* normal and is in fact a "mistake" is when you see something like this in an area covered by flyover.  

 

In a flyover area, someone would have taken the time to do a mesh of that bridge and then manually paste it into the landscape.  It will be many many years before every bridge (especially one in the middle of a desert) to be mapped in this way.  

 

These are not "mistakes" in mapping.  AppleInsider would do better to showcase the actual errors in the data which are prevalent and easy to find, especially once you leave the US.  

 

Most details and locations in Apple Maps for any city in Canada for instance are not only far from reality, they haven't been corrected or changed yet by a single iota.  This is where the problems and mistakes are, outside of the USA.  Please stop with the posting of "fake" glitches as per the above photo and try to focus on the data mistakes and problems with Apple Maps.  They are legion.  

 

This data test reveals how bad Apple’s data is for Canada... and how much worse Google's is, even after all the time they have had! While also pointing out that the Maps app is able to navigate well even with those misplaced pins:

 

http://blog.tabini.ca/2012/09/old-maps-vs-new-maps/

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Then how do you account for the correct portrayal of the Golden Gate, Brooklyn and several other bridges in NYC?

 

 

Those locations have Flyover support, which is growing. It doesn’t cover the entire Earth with that level of detail yet. No company does. But the locations you mention are obviously going to get Flyover attention first, since they are more populated than the Hoover Dam area.

post #55 of 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

...

Maps does suck, but the reality is that images like this don't actually show "errors" at all and instead show exactly what they are supposed to show.  

 

I disagree... Apple Maps does not suck...  It has some good and bad points -- as do all map systems!

 

 

When in 3D mode the satellite imagery is projected onto a mesh of the geography of the area down to sea level.  This is totally normal.  This picture is showing satellite imagery of the land around Hoover Dam and projecting it onto a 3D mesh of said land.  

 

IMO, the "projection of satellite imagery onto a mesh" is one of the features of Apple Maps with great potential!  The 3D images are projected in a series of layers going from far to near.  

 

In a complicated projection, say downtown Manhattan, you can see the layers being drawn -- first a far building -- then a nearer building which [partially] blocks the far building…  This is especially noticeable on a iPad 2 with no cached data.

 

With some clever programming, the Apple Maps app could allow the user to control which layers are drawn…  If a nearer building blocks a far building -- just don't draw the near building.

 

Done properly, this could offer capabilities that [2D] StreetView could never match!

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post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm sure some people on here will still deny that there was ever a problem with iOS 6 Maps.

Who?

The most common response is that Apple Maps isn't perfect and has a number of mistakes (which Apple is apparently fixing).

You seem to be confusing "it's not significantly worse than Google" (which is true from all the public comparisons which use data rather than anecdotes) with "deny there was ever a problem".
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post #57 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154640/apple-fires-ios-6-maps-chief#post_2237562"]Good, people need to be held accountable for their actions. If somebody is not up for the job, then get rid of them, and replace them with somebody else.

I agree in principle. But man, it just seems sad to see more cracks emerging every month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154640/apple-fires-ios-6-maps-chief#post_2237562"]
And whoever is in charge of the iOS appstore app should also be fired, because it's slow, it's laggy and when you scroll with your finger on the screen, it is jerky. That might be acceptable for an Android device, but not for any Apple device. The old app store was much better and much smoother and faster. Fire that person right away, and put somebody in charge who knows what they're doing.

This is what I mean. While Apple continues to ship shinier and ever more emaciated hardware, software (particularly software services) is not keeping up on multiple fronts. Are the leaders of the individual services to blame or does Apple need a reset? Presumably, Eddie is pushing that reset now.
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Then how do you account for the correct portrayal of the Golden Gate, Brooklyn and several other bridges in NYC?

 

 

Those locations have Flyover support, which is growing. It doesn’t cover the entire Earth with that level of detail yet. No company does. But the locations you mention are obviously going to get Flyover attention first, since they are more populated than the Hoover Dam area.

 

I still don't understand...  The non-FlyOver 3D Imagery can detect the man-made Hoover dam (and the roadway on top of it) -- why cannot it detect the man-made bridge (and the roadway on top of it)?

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post #59 of 153
It is interesting to note that about 30 minutes after this article with that image of Hoover Dam was posted, Apple fixed the image in their database. That says something about the company.
post #60 of 153
"Burn the mast, fire the cook, let no man leave alive..."
post #61 of 153

Yeah, in 3D mode, it looks that way, but in 2D mode, it looks fine.  The directions will still get you to the same place won't they?

post #62 of 153
Originally Posted by quinney View Post
"Burn the mast, fire the cook, let no man leave alive..."

 

"Isn't it funny, a ship that sinks from the top."

 

Doesn't apply here, but still.

post #63 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Who?
The most common response is that Apple Maps isn't perfect and has a number of mistakes (which Apple is apparently fixing).
You seem to be confusing "it's not significantly worse than Google" (which is true from all the public comparisons which use data rather than anecdotes) with "deny there was ever a problem".

While I agree Google Maps was and is not perfect. I don't know how we can arrive at "it's not significantly worse than Google". What metrics should be applied? This is what I believe to be true:

- iOS Maps app looks better and renders faster (due to vectorization). Score one for Apple.
- iOS Maps has flyover rather than streets view. While flyover is cool, streets view seems better for lost souls. But let's call it even.
- Many more "mistakes" found on iOS Maps than on Google maps (e.g. actual locations, distorted images, poorly stitched images, etc.)
- Transit data missing in iOS Maps.
- No desktop version of Apple maps available.
- Many more businesses and points of interest available on Google maps.
- iOS Maps seems under-developed for many non-US regions of the world.

I am sure I have missed a few things. But even with all this and more in mind. it seems "significant" is a subjective assessment, subject to what your needs are.
post #64 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post

There are STILL fanbois who support Apple Maps? After endless user complaints, Tim Cook apologising for it, Forestall and now Williamson being fired and people still defend it? What would Apple have to do for some of you to criticize them? I think it is about time, now put Google Maps back on as (and Youtube) back on and get on with it.

I don't have a problem getting directions to where I need to go.  Yeah, it's got problems, but I think its more with the 3D photos mostly from what I've seen.  I still like Apple's Maps vs Google.

 

I just like the directions better as it is easier to read, plus it automatically gives alternative routes if available.  In the areas for which i use Apple Maps, it does just fine.  It would be nice to have street view, but it's not a MUST HAVE.

 

I would rather Apple fix the problems as users report them and add street view when they have the photos ready.  But like any Map program, it takes time.  Both Google and Mapquest both sucked when they first came onto the scene.  For as little as I use a Mapping program, it's not a big deal.

 

Apple can't put Google Maps back on since they terminated their agreement, and Google can always submit their new version to the Apple App store when they want to.

post #65 of 153
Glad I had the foresight to save my SHSH blobs during the beta, because by the looks of it, neither my iPhone nor my iPad will see an upgrade any time soon. The jailbreak will keep them useful for a long time.

By the way, I'm quite impressed with Nokia's HERE Maps as far as data is concerned; it's surpassing Google Maps in both accuracy and information by a huge margin for me.
post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by **** Applebaum View Post

 

Then how do you account for the correct portrayal of the Golden Gate, Brooklyn and several other bridges in NYC?

Probably because those landmarks are more visited and they wanted to make sure no one complained.  Heck, I saw crappy version of the Statue of Liberty in other map programs. I mean, if the directions get someone there, that's the main purpose of maps, the photographs, 3D rendering, street views is more for playing around.  But for actually getting directions, Maps works fine for me.

post #67 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Mac View Post

It is interesting to note that about 30 minutes after this article with that image of Hoover Dam was posted, Apple fixed the image in their database. That says something about the company.

 

The old image still shows on my iDevices... not fixed!

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post #68 of 153
Quote:
Maps

 

What is wrong with this.  I loved driving down that bridge at a high rate of speed then back up it again.  As for the Dam itself.  We don't need that much water there anyway.

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post #69 of 153

What would steve do?  1devil.gif

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post #70 of 153
Originally Posted by igriv View Post
I believe the implication is that Tim will have to commit seppukku eventually.

 

Have to. lol.gif


Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
I still don't understand...  The non-FlyOver 3D Imagery can detect the man-made Hoover dam (and the roadway on top of it) -- why cannot it detect the man-made bridge (and the roadway on top of it)?

 

No actual reply, just testing something… 

 

EDIT: Nope. Not Huddler. So why this?

 700

post #71 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

By the way, I'm quite impressed with Nokia's HERE Maps as far as data is concerned; it's surpassing Google Maps in both accuracy and information by a huge margin for me.

The very first search I did with Here Maps was way off the mark by a couple hundred meters.

 

The thing about using other maps such as Here or Google, if they develop an app or even the web version, is they are not integrated with the OS through MapKit API nor are they usable with Siri. As bad as Apple Maps may be, they will always be better than the rest because of the systemwide integration.


Edited by mstone - 11/27/12 at 3:14pm

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post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

While I agree Google Maps was and is not perfect. I don't know how we can arrive at "it's not significantly worse than Google". What metrics should be applied? This is what I believe to be true:
- iOS Maps app looks better and renders faster (due to vectorization). Score one for Apple.
- iOS Maps has flyover rather than streets view. While flyover is cool, streets view seems better for lost souls. But let's call it even.
- Many more "mistakes" found on iOS Maps than on Google maps (e.g. actual locations, distorted images, poorly stitched images, etc.)
- Transit data missing in iOS Maps.
- No desktop version of Apple maps available.
- Many more businesses and points of interest available on Google maps.
- iOS Maps seems under-developed for many non-US regions of the world.
I am sure I have missed a few things. But even with all this and more in mind. it seems "significant" is a subjective assessment, subject to what your needs are.

Yes, you've missed at least one major thing. Or, at least, you've repeated the same FUD that has been presented over and over.

The bolded statements are just wrong.
1. Few people have actually done comparisons, but the ones who have have found few significant differences between Apple Maps and Google Maps. You're confusing a bunch of whining with evidence.

2. In some parts of the world, Apple Maps is demonstrably better - China, for example.

Some of your other complaints are nonsensical. No, there's no desktop version of Apple Maps, but there's no version of Google Maps that works on my microwave, either. Neither of those things was ever intended. When you're at your desktop, you have a wide range of choices for mapping solutions.

Transit data is intentionally being supplied by third parties. Just a difference in approach rather than a significant flaw.
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post #73 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgajx View Post

I live in Edinburgh, Scotland and have to say that maps has got noticeably better lately.I used it on Saturday in Glasgow which had the flyover feature to get to the SECC and it was just stunning. Going back on the train watching the pin move over a satellite image was great fun.

 

However if I was reporting to the board I would have to say that the lack of public transport info is a big minus. Also the directions given I find puzzling at times. Is Apple not using TomTom for navigation.

 

I would use that enormous cash pile and buy up all the bus trackers, national rail enquiries software and integrate it into maps.

 

I think it has the potential to be a great app, it was just put out half baked just like SIRI (which doesn't understand my accent ) and FCPX

They are not using TomTom's routing as I understand it. 

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post #74 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Mac View Post

It is interesting to note that about 30 minutes after this article with that image of Hoover Dam was posted, Apple fixed the image in their database. That says something about the company.

Really? on my iOS 6 iPhone 4S the picture still looks the same as above - when in 3D mode - When not in 3D mode you can get an optical illusion that the span is arched upward - but when you switch to 3D and rotate the view is when you see it. And here I though the problem was the tag Hoover Dam on the Boulder Dam, or is it the Black Canyon Dam? Damn dam, which is it? 

post #75 of 153

Hoover Dam? Still?

I'm one of those who thinks the Apple maps problems have been largely overblown... 'Widely ridiculed'? On certain forums, maybe, but among my fellow iPhone users, things seem to work just fine... Frankly, I'm glad to finally have native turn-by-turn on my iPhone, which Google refused to provide... (Google's turn-by-turn is not perfect either, of course, but their bar is generally set lower)...

Having said that, I'm stunned that some of the most blatantly embarrassing 3D modeling artifacts (such as the Hoover Dam bridge pictured in this story) have not yet been corrected! I mean, it's been a couple months now! Apple should have an army of contractors tackling these... The fact that some of the most widely publicized artifacts remain is what surprises me... Does it affect anyone's use of the system? No, but it looks ridiculous and only sustains Apple's PR headache...

Apple need to start displaying some urgency here! Not just firing people, or 'asking for advice', but getting more data and 3D geometry into the app itself... If Hoover Dam (and others) still look like that at the end of the year, then Apple deserves all the bad PR they are getting...
post #76 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Mac View Post

It is interesting to note that about 30 minutes after this article with that image of Hoover Dam was posted, Apple fixed the image in their database. That says something about the company.

Really? on my iOS 6 iPhone 4S the picture still looks the same as above - when in 3D mode - When not in 3D mode you can get an optical illusion that the span is arched upward - but when you switch to 3D and rotate the view is when you see it. And here I though the problem was the tag Hoover Dam on the Boulder Dam, or is it the Black Canyon Dam? Damn dam, which is it? 

 

Tinker's Dam?

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post #77 of 153
Street View is not relevant... It never existed on the Google version of the iPhone maps app. Google would not allow it, nor would they allow turn-by-turn..... No iPhone user 'lost' street view by moving to Apple maps...

What Apple maps users gained in iOS 6 was native turn-by-turn and flyover... Definitely an upgrade...

When Google ships an iOS maps app, then the comparison will make sense... Not sure what's taking them so long...
post #78 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

...

Maps does suck, but the reality is that images like this don't actually show "errors" at all and instead show exactly what they are supposed to show.  

 

I disagree... Apple Maps does not suck...  It has some good and bad points -- as do all map systems!

 

 

When in 3D mode the satellite imagery is projected onto a mesh of the geography of the area down to sea level.  This is totally normal.  This picture is showing satellite imagery of the land around Hoover Dam and projecting it onto a 3D mesh of said land.  

 

IMO, the "projection of satellite imagery onto a mesh" is one of the features of Apple Maps with great potential!  The 3D images are projected in a series of layers going from far to near.  

 

In a complicated projection, say downtown Manhattan, you can see the layers being drawn -- first a far building -- then a nearer building which [partially] blocks the far building…  This is especially noticeable on a iPad 2 with no cached data.

 

With some clever programming, the Apple Maps app could allow the user to control which layers are drawn…  If a nearer building blocks a far building -- just don't draw the near building.

 

Done properly, this could offer capabilities that [2D] StreetView could never match!

 

Could be great indeed.  I actually love opening up maps and cruising around the local mountains in 3D.  It's just that when it comes to the cities, the data is either totally f*cked up or missing entirely.  I don't miss street view as much as I thought I would either.  If they simply fixed the data (and there is oceans and oceans of bad data), and added transit directions it would all be fine for most people.  

 

I've been reporting errors a lot however and so far not a single one of them has been fixed.  For instance I was in Vancouver BC last week and pretty much all the data is still bad or missing.  This is a big city too, one of the largest in the country.  

post #79 of 153
This was surely a long term project. I am assuming it started in 2009, but I am guessing. Maybe earlier. Even if in 2007, it is a massive project in which they were 8-9 years behind Google.
People are probably being fired for saying Maps was ready when it wasn't. This was probably due to massive pressure from the top, more than likely saying it HAD to be ready. They need scapegoats for a perceived failure, in which everyone at the top played a part.
post #80 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Mac View Post

It is interesting to note that about 30 minutes after this article with that image of Hoover Dam was posted, Apple fixed the image in their database. That says something about the company.

 

It was fixed a long time ago, but articles such as this one are still insistent on using these sensational images (which are cheap shots, as Google's 3D is much worse, even it even exists in the same area which it mostly doesn't) simply to get more clicks and whore out the 'LOL HOW TERRIBLE IS MAPS' meme as much as posisble. Are inacuracies in 3D really going to affect anyone in real world scenarios? No. 

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