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Apple exec Eddy Cue 'racing' to improve iOS Maps - Page 2

post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

I have my doubts about the latter.
 
Having said that, I think his refusal to sign the letter (for either reason) was just the final straw.  When you have people like Mansfield and Ive, who are the real lifeblood of Apple (especially since Jobs is gone) then you do what you have to do to keep them around.  If Forstall couldn't work well with the other VPs, he had to go.

And maybe he didn't think to license the Swiss clock either, costing the company $26M...? THAT could have been the last straw...

post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jume View Post

Exaclty. Maps is a real complex thing and what if Eddie Cue doesn't get it right? Will they blow him away as well? As far as I can see and read in Jobs's book, Eddie was one of the key people in iTunes and iPod era... Well I wish him all the best, but I think Maps will take a lot of time to get it to the level where Google is... you can't do that overnight with 100mph speed.

Forstall's biggest mistake was the secrecy. As a result he failed to communicate the real situation and mismanaged the expectation.

For Eddy to fix Map, he will need to address the expectation and trust problem FIRST. If he can separate the accurate POIs from the unverified ones (yet) visually, it would give the users a way to mitigate their risk and expectation.

They should also impose the 24-48 hour map fix time. This would show the early users that things are getting better relatively quickly.

Small visible changes work best here. If Eddy chooses to revamp the entire thing, he will need to start a parallel effort.

Also getting outside help is a smart or rather the right move. But they should put in as much resources and $$$ as possible to automate the hourly map update.
post #43 of 127
I think iOS7 is going to make or break the iPhone for a lot of people. iOS6 to me was the least interesting, least innovative update yet, messing with and kind of clunking up things like app store, podcasts, maps, relatively useless ticket app, ugly icon tiles for facebook twitter print etc, lack of widget and lock screen customization. None of it is terrible, but none of it's A anymore. Feels like nobody is talking over there, nobody managing it all. This is all coming from a huge apple fan, who's used an iPhone since 3G. It seems like they're struggling lately, the new iTunes 11 having issues, maps of couse, whatever is going on with Ive taking over Forstall. They need to seriously come out with a massive iOS7, not just a few tiny tweeks, to convince people they're still number one. The hardware's always been great, but we've hit a point where it's all about the software. They're coasting on 3rd party apps, but they've got more power than anyone, can do whatever they want, can hire whoever they want to help, and they're playing things way too safe.
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Cue reportedly pushed out Williamson quickly after he took on an expanded role that has put him in charge of iOS Maps. ...

 

This, as well as the title of the previous article are kind of re-writing history IMO.  

 

Maps wasn't an "instant disaster" and it took a reasonable amount of time for Apple to even mention the problems or do anything about them.  When they announced anything at all, they said that Eddie Cue was taking over but specifically *didn't* fire the guy in charge of the situation.  After Eddie took over, he initiated a review of what happened and then only after that, he made the decision to let this guy go.  

 

Despite what Apple Insider seems to be pushing here, he was most likely not fired out of spite or as revenge, or even because he was nominally in charge.  It also didn't seem to happen "fast" or "quickly" at all to me.  It seems more like a reasoned decision made after much thought. 

post #45 of 127

this has to be the most overblown issue I've seen in a long time.  Every time I've used it, the new Maps app works great.  Far better than the old Google app. 

post #46 of 127
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Only a year has passed and already you are giving him full credit for everything that has been designed....

 

NOPE!

 

Exactly the opposite, in fact. I'd say less than half of post-Jobs' Apple's vision has been even hinted to, much less seen. Which is why I said wait.

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post #47 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Unfortunately, I think Apple Maps will remain a patchwork of various partners' technology and data sets for some time, which, in my opinion is the fundamental issue going forward. Unlike Google who is simply extending the search data that they already own to their maps, Apple has to depend on several other third parties. In a way, Microsoft did a much better job with their back end and cloud services than Apple. Bing search and maps are reasonably good. They were smart to build it in-house. I think this is what Apple needs to do. Search and maps are services that naturally go together and if they share some of the same code base it makes them so much more efficient rather than having many disparate partners like Apple does. There is just too much unnecessary complexity in the way Apple did their mapping solution.

 

Without a ground up rewrite I can't really see Eddie being able to completely fix Apple Maps. Improve, sure, but really make it competitive with the other mapping solutions out there, not likely. Apple maps has one really strong feature, it is the default mapping app on iOS, but that is about it.

 

"Microsoft did a much better job with their back end and cloud services than Apple. Bing search and maps are reasonably good. They were smart to build it in-house."

 

Actually, MS did not build their own mapping solution in-house.  Bing maps is powered by Navteq which is owned by Nokia.  The Bing mapping team built the UI front-end.  So it's really no different than what Apple has done. On a side note, Apple should license mapping data from Navteq or use their $100+ billion war chest to buy them outright

post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

I think iOS7 is going to make or break the iPhone for a lot of people. iOS6 to me was the least interesting, least innovative update yet, messing with and kind of clunking up things like app store, podcasts, maps, relatively useless ticket app, ugly icon tiles for facebook twitter print etc, lack of widget and lock screen customization. None of it is terrible, but none of it's A anymore. Feels like nobody is talking over there, nobody managing it all. This is all coming from a huge apple fan, who's used an iPhone since 3G. It seems like they're struggling lately, the new iTunes 11 having issues, maps of couse, whatever is going on with Ive taking over Forstall. They need to seriously come out with a massive iOS7, not just a few tiny tweeks, to convince people they're still number one. The hardware's always been great, but we've hit a point where it's all about the software. They're coasting on 3rd party apps, but they've got more power than anyone, can do whatever they want, can hire whoever they want to help, and they're playing things way too safe.

Nah, they need to develop their existing concepts deeper. Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. Siri needs another upgrade in accuracy based on users' collective search history since they own Safari and the iOS screen search. Then introduce integration and swiping across apps.

They also need to make the OS more refined. There have been some regressions. Fix all the glaring issues, and then start to clean up the UI visually to minimize the clutter. Do more content deals for the users.

THEN do a big leap, away from the crowd.
post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

NOPE

Exactly the opposite, in fact. I'd say less than half of post-Jobs' Apple's vision has been even hinted to, much less seen. Which is why I said wait.

Oh, I'm waiting...
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post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That's what I meant about Ive.
Who is more important to Apple... Cook or Ive?
So if Ive strongly disagrees with Cook on a project what will happen? Cook aint Jobs. Cook's track record is in running the company. He wasn't the vision guy.

I'm not sure either is more important. To me, Ive is indispensable in terms if executing an envisioned product in terms of design. Tim seems to be indispensable in terms of supply chain management and seems to be doing quite well at running the ship overall. However, my concern is: who is now creating the actual visions and then make sure it gets done, internally as well as externally. Like my impression is that all that never ending negotiating with cable companies and media creators would have run differently under SJ. But that's just...like... My opinion. :-). Sorry for taking this slightly OT
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post #51 of 127

Why didn't Apple just release Maps as a beta like they did with Siri. I think they will do this in future for such an important release.

 

I find a few things weak in Apple, e.g., Mail was weak awhile ago, Notes is weak. I don't like have 3 separate apps for Mail, iCal, Notes. I like the Outlook approach of one app for all three. (Hate MS though).

 

MobileMe was weak. But I stuck with it.

 

iWeb was weak. But the integration with iPhoto and Pages was far superior to anything else out there. Same with Numbers.

 

 

Again, I've put up with it because of the integration across the Apple platform and as time goes by, Apple always improves just about everything.

 

I like asking Siri for directions to the Airport and she just sets it all up. The Tom Tom App, which I thought was the best iPhone app I ever bought. But I had to type in the City, then the street name, then the address number....

 

However, I like that the Tom Tom App automatically changes to blue tones at night time.

 

Anyway...people need to lighten up.

post #52 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Isle...
Based on your comments here, it appears as through you are dissatisfied with Tim Cook or his performance.
Care to elaborate?

Actually, Dick, "I" don't have to be dissatisfied to feel that Cook's job is tentative. He, in my opinion, isn't the most important guy on the team. I think that Ive is the most important guy, but Ive is also not a Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs was not even the best idea guy, but he was definitely the guy who could plainly see which ideas would work and which ones wouldn't. He had a vision of where he wanted to take Apple. His track record speaks for itself.

Cook on the other hand hasn't shown us yet where he wants to take Apple and, in my opinion, if he has then I'm not sure about his route. A few heads have rolled and we can't necessarily say the right ones have been tossed out the door. That happens... again, we can look at Steve Jobs history with Apple as an example. Rubbing people the wrong way might not be the worst trait one can have in the Apple corporate world.

As I said... more at 6...

I agree with most of that!

One of Steve's traits was that he would micromanage a situation until he understood all the trade-offs and possibilities. Then he would find the talented people he needed to execute on that vision. Then he let them succeed, or fail…

Ive, Cook, and Ron Johnson are some notable examples of Job stepping aside (delegating) and letting people execute the vision.

Jobs made lots of mistakes – but he was a visionary, got to the heart of the matter and made decisions. He was right much more often than he was wrong.

I am sure that Cook, as CEO, will be challenged by Ives and other executives from time to time…

It will be interesting to see if Cook can subordinate his personality in order to implement the vision -- especially when the vision originates from someone else.

I believe Tim Cook has already proven that he can do this.
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post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Actually, MS did not build their own mapping solution in-house.  Bing maps is powered by Navteq which is owned by Nokia.  The Bing mapping team built the UI front-end.  So it's really no different than what Apple has done. On a side note, Apple should license mapping data from Navteq or use their $100+ billion war chest to buy them outright

I totally agree but is Navteq for sale? Nokia market cap is 12B of which Navteq is probably valued at a few billion but not anywhere as much as the 8 billion that Nokia paid for it.

 

I think Bing also uses several other third party vendors for their maps but all of it is integrated into their own data sets using their own enterprise technologies like MSSQL, SharePoint, Virtual Earth, Windows Server and their multitudes of datacenter building experiences as well as their Bing search data. Very little of which Apple has to any significant degree.

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post #54 of 127
I'm less sanguine about Eddy Cue's ability to fix Maps than I'd like to be. His previous "successes" include iTunes (ubiquitous, but bloated and increasingly unmanageable, it's really Apple's MS Office) and iCloud (better than its predecessor perhaps, but still widely reviled for it's bugs, data corruption issues, downtime, odd limitations and general unreliability). Why would anyone think this is the guy to fix Maps?

To me one of the key things about the Maps issue was almost completely missed by the press and most commentators - the fact that when Apple put out a list of recommended mapping apps in the app store they omitted TomTom from it. Given that TomTom are one of the main suppliers of mapping data for Apple's Maps that seemed like a pretty clear statement by Apple as to where they thought the blame lay for the problems. Apple saw the problem as bad data supplied by TomTom. Now we hear TomTom have been 'prodded' by Eddie to fix the data they're supplying to Apple. I'll bet they have!

This is most likely why Scott Forstall wouldn't sign any public apology, as far as he was concerned the problem wasn't Apple's, it was (mostly anyway) TomTom's fault and he wanted them to fix their end first. Hence their omission from the app store 'recommended apps' list. Unfortunately for him he now had few friends left in the executive suites and they took advantage of this to get rid of him.

If Forstall pressuring TomTom by omitting them from the list of recommended apps and Eddie's additional "prodding" (whatever that involves) doesn't work to Apple's satisfaction I expect this dispute will end up in court. From Apple's perspective they are paying good money for mapping data from one of the leading companies in the field, it should be the same data TomTom use in their own highly regarded mapping apps, but it's apparently not. It's full of errors and embarrassment for Apple. That's got to upset them and have them itching to start throwing lawyers at the problem.
post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

Ten years at Apple and no second chance? They could have just taken him off the project and assigned him somewhere else. So either they wanted to make a statement or there might be more to it.

We know very very little. There is definitely much more to everything to such things. Anyone who has ever been in a conflict situation with people knows this. 

post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I totally agree but is Navteq for sale? Nokia market cap is 12B of which Navteq is probably valued at a few billion but not anywhere as much as the 8 billion that Nokia paid for it.

 

I think Bing also uses several other third party vendors for their maps but all of it is integrated into their own data sets using their own enterprise technologies like MSSQL, SharePoint, Virtual Earth, Windows Server and their multitudes of datacenter building experiences as well as their Bing search data. Very little of which Apple has to any significant degree.

I'm not sure if Navteq is for sale but there's nothing stopping Apple from making an offer.  Apple uses MS Azure and Amazon EWC for their datacenter technologies so whatever server technologies MS is using, Apple is using as well.  

 

The big difference is, is that Apple doesn't have search data like Bing and doesn't have the server / cloud services culture that MS, Google or Amazon have to build not only scalable, but reliable cloud services. That requires talent that's very different from building devices.  Cloud services is where Apple is weakest and cloud services is where the war will be won.  I feel sorry for Eddy Cue because whether he knows it or not his job is probably the most important one at Apple in terms of making their services functional and reliable.

post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Actually, MS did not build their own mapping solution in-house.  Bing maps is powered by Navteq which is owned by Nokia.  The Bing mapping team built the UI front-end.  So it's really no different than what Apple has done. On a side note, Apple should license mapping data from Navteq or use their $100+ billion war chest to buy them outright
I totally agree but is Navteq for sale? Nokia market cap is 12B of which Navteq is probably valued at a few billion but not anywhere as much as the 8 billion that Nokia paid for it.

I think Bing also uses several other third party vendors for their maps but all of it is integrated into their own data sets using their own enterprise technologies like MSSQL, SharePoint, Virtual Earth, Windows Server and their multitudes of datacenter building experiences as well as their Bing search data. Very little of which Apple has to any significant degree.

This is a little OT...

But every now and again I have to stop and wonder where things would be today if…

Google had not chosen to compete with Apple by releasing Android...
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post #58 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


This is a little OT...
But every now and again I have to stop and wonder where things would be today if…
Google had not chosen to compete with Apple by releasing Android...

What they could've done is merge and create the most powerful mobile platform...period.

post #59 of 127

All I want to know is, where's iTunes 11?

post #60 of 127
Maps definitely needs improving in the UK

Try a 3D view of Oxford street .. Only the south side is 3D

Rendering of any satellite or 3D image is poor even via wireless on a 70 mbps connection, it appears at times apples servers can't ope

Some roads have incorrect names, despite notifying apple of the errors
post #61 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

All I want to know is, where's iTunes 11?

Good question.  I'm sure you're not the only one.  Not like there's many days left in November.

post #62 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

I think iOS7 is going to make or break the iPhone for a lot of people. iOS6 to me was the least interesting, least innovative update yet, messing with and kind of clunking up things like app store, podcasts, maps, relatively useless ticket app, ugly icon tiles for facebook twitter print etc, lack of widget and lock screen customization. None of it is terrible, but none of it's A anymore. Feels like nobody is talking over there, nobody managing it all. This is all coming from a huge apple fan, who's used an iPhone since 3G. It seems like they're struggling lately, the new iTunes 11 having issues, maps of couse, whatever is going on with Ive taking over Forstall. They need to seriously come out with a massive iOS7, not just a few tiny tweeks, to convince people they're still number one. The hardware's always been great, but we've hit a point where it's all about the software. They're coasting on 3rd party apps, but they've got more power than anyone, can do whatever they want, can hire whoever they want to help, and they're playing things way too safe.

I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).
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post #63 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Actually, Dick, "I" don't have to be dissatisfied to feel that Cook's job is tentative. He, in my opinion, isn't the most important guy on the team. I think that Ive is the most important guy, but Ive is also not a Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs was not even the best idea guy, but he was definitely the guy who could plainly see which ideas would work and which ones wouldn't. He had a vision of where he wanted to take Apple. His track record speaks for itself.
Cook on the other hand hasn't shown us yet where he wants to take Apple and, in my opinion, if he has then I'm not sure about his route. A few heads have rolled and we can't necessarily say the right ones have been tossed out the door. That happens... again, we can look at Steve Jobs history with Apple as an example. Rubbing people the wrong way might not be the worst trait one can have in the Apple corporate world.
As I said... more at 6...

I am not sure about this. I think Cook may stick around for quite a while because he is the keeper of Steve's vision and I believe he is managing the ship quite well. To hold the fact that he has not clearly signalled where Apple is going against him is unfair. He has signalled that Apple is continuing in the direction that is well laid out for the time being. No change of direction required. And yet I feel that the future will show that by getting rid of Forstall and handing wider responsibilities to Cue and Ive, among others, he has quite clearly showed us that he is indeed steering Apple. As usual, where to we won't know until after the fact. It was the same with Steve, and remember that Steve didn't always do the right thing. 

post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post


I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).

Yes, I think people should be allowed to customize the home screen. I think that rigidity is old school Apple and the need to customize is greater on a phone than computer. 

 

My guess would be that a very large percentage of users wouldn't be able to tell you who used to supply the maps for IOS and who does now. Care, much less. 

post #65 of 127

By fumbling for a phone and answering it.  If that was safe so many states wouldn't require hands free.  My choices are the following:

1. Act in an unsafe manner by answering and holding my phone

2. Not use a phone and an in-vehicle phone system I paid for many $$ for.

If someone at Apple would just say "We know about it and are working on it"  I would be satisfied.

post #66 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I've been meaning to say something about this. Does it make more sense that he would have said "No, I'm not signing that crap! It's not true!" and that going over poorly or "No, I'm not signing that crap; we'll just fix what's wrong!" and that going over poorly?

 

 

Tim Cook's apology was lame. Moreover, it was mostly a reaction to the media. The product needs work especially outside of North America, but it was nowhere as bad as the media made it seem. Apple's biggest mistake was not releasing the product as a beta, like Siri.

 

Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input. 

post #67 of 127
Originally Posted by ibapples View Post
By fumbling for a phone and answering it.  If that was safe so many states wouldn't require hands free.  My choices are the following:

1. Act in an unsafe manner by answering and holding my phone

 

Or you can just… not answer the phone while you're driving.

 

If you die from answering your phone because you didn't have Bluetooth, that's not Apple's fault.


Originally Posted by TBell View Post
Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input. 

 

Exactly. It would have been "An Open Letter to Our Maps Users" or something. As much of the old deal as could legally be presented would have been laid out, showing what Google refused to do and explaining why Apple chose to do what it did in response.

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post #68 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

Ten years at Apple and no second chance? They could have just taken him off the project and assigned him somewhere else. So either they wanted to make a statement or there might be more to it.

I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.

post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post


Forstall's biggest mistake was the secrecy. As a result he failed to communicate the real situation and mismanaged the expectation.
For Eddy to fix Map, he will need to address the expectation and trust problem FIRST. If he can separate the accurate POIs from the unverified ones (yet) visually, it would give the users a way to mitigate their risk and expectation.
They should also impose the 24-48 hour map fix time. This would show the early users that things are getting better relatively quickly.
Small visible changes work best here. If Eddy chooses to revamp the entire thing, he will need to start a parallel effort.
Also getting outside help is a smart or rather the right move. But they should put in as much resources and $$$ as possible to automate the hourly map update.

 

 

You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who  decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta. 

post #70 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.

That would still be a stupid reason for letting go of someone with that level of skill & knowledge. He's an asset & could have been useful elsewhere.  

post #71 of 127
When I first DJ'd in college, the advice given to me was "If you make a mistake, just keep going. Don't apologize or explain it." And while this doesn't work in life, in terms of PR it seems to. Apologies are fuel for the fire. Wouldn't have made anyone feel better about anything. Would have provided new headlines and invited further comments. I don't know why he didn't sign it. I don't know why he should have.
post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by astra4 View Post

Does the pic show Williamson or Cue?

 

Cue

post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post


Nah, they need to develop their existing concepts deeper. Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. Siri needs another upgrade in accuracy based on users' collective search history since they own Safari and the iOS screen search. Then introduce integration and swiping across apps.

I think my greatest frustration with Passbook is how Apple has failed to make it take off. It is a brilliant idea. An open ticketing standard, with real time push updates which can simply piggy back off Apple servers.

 

In the past, Apple has been awesome at taking a new technology, focusing on a few use cases, and selling those cases to the public, allowing the technology to become widespread, and then opening it up to its full potential. We saw this with touchscreens and the iPhone. However, Apple completely dropped the ball with Passbook.

 

They should have ensured they had a few partners to begin with, who were completely passbook ready from day 1 (MLB, their biggest partner, supported passbook in like 3 stadiums, at the end of the baseball season). They should have gone with Starbucks, Fandango, etc. Ensured these guys added support everywhere. Allowed users to purchase Passbook based gift cards in the Apple Store, and the iTunes store. Heck, they should have given $5-10 credit for new iphone users to use with Starbucks. Instead, it has taken them months after iOS6 to start supporting Passbook in Apple Stores themselves.

post #74 of 127
No one can replace Steve so I think it's good that someone who isn't trying to be a mini-Steve is running the company, I like the fact that Cook has aligned the company under core competencies (design, software, services) and there are DRI's for each, Of course Ive, Federighi and Cue have a lot of responsibilities so I hope Cook allows them to staff up as much as necessary, I think for the most part Apple is rock solid when it comes to hardware, but software and services need work. I think it's fair to say the impression out there (right or wrong) is that iOS has stagnated; that Siri hasn't progressed as much as it should and that other companies like Amazon, Google and Microsoft are better in the cloud. And the whole meme that Apple isn't innovating enough. Of course I think that one is BS, but its out there and is gaining traction. I think (hope) this reorg will address those issues (real or perceived). Especially since it now seems Apple has an executive team that can work together and no one is posturing for Cook's job.
post #75 of 127
I have been using the new maps app since I got my iphone 5 (my first iphone). I haven't had any issues with it. We use it for turn by turn directions all the time.

I think this whole thing is way overblown.
post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

I think iOS7 is going to make or break the iPhone for a lot of people. iOS6 to me was the least interesting, least innovative update yet, messing with and kind of clunking up things like app store, podcasts, maps, relatively useless ticket app, ugly icon tiles for facebook twitter print etc, lack of widget and lock screen customization. None of it is terrible, but none of it's A anymore. Feels like nobody is talking over there, nobody managing it all. This is all coming from a huge apple fan, who's used an iPhone since 3G. It seems like they're struggling lately, the new iTunes 11 having issues, maps of couse, whatever is going on with Ive taking over Forstall. They need to seriously come out with a massive iOS7, not just a few tiny tweeks, to convince people they're still number one. The hardware's always been great, but we've hit a point where it's all about the software. They're coasting on 3rd party apps, but they've got more power than anyone, can do whatever they want, can hire whoever they want to help, and they're playing things way too safe.

 

I think Apple may feel this way too, even if they  won't admit it.  I'll be very interested to see what changes Ive makes to iOS. However, I have to say, no matter if you're using Android, iOS or Windows, any OS will eventually get boring.  One thing I like about Apple is that they look before they leap - usually.  Maps broke that trend, it appears.  Or maybe Siri did, I don't know.

 

Bottom line, for me I am more curious about the changes coming up in the mobile payments arena.  I expect (hope) that Apple is up to something big in iOS 7

post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am not sure about this. I think Cook may stick around for quite a while because he is the keeper of Steve's vision and I believe he is managing the ship quite well. To hold the fact that he has not clearly signalled where Apple is going against him is unfair. He has signalled that Apple is continuing in the direction that is well laid out for the time being. No change of direction required. And yet I feel that the future will show that by getting rid of Forstall and handing wider responsibilities to Cue and Ive, among others, he has quite clearly showed us that he is indeed steering Apple. As usual, where to we won't know until after the fact. It was the same with Steve, and remember that Steve didn't always do the right thing. 

Where you and I differ is that I don't think enough time has passed to show us one way or another if Cook can hold the ship together on his own. Running the show with Steve still in the picture and running the show entirely without Steve may be two different things.

Someone brought up the apology letter which, to me, is ironic. All the apology letter said to me was, "I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing but I'm giving it my best". I said as much when the letter was released. As good as he may be about running supply chains that letter alone has given me pause about Cook.
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post #78 of 127
Originally Posted by igriv View Post
What does it matter? A decision was taken (presumably by the CEO), and any refusal is insubordination.

 

I recall an old story from back in the '80s. Steve wanted Sony* drives for the Macintosh, but one of his engineers knew they couldn't do it in time, in volume, and in quality. So without Steve's knowledge he went and got drives made from another company*. Steve found out far too late to do anything about it, and he was amicable with the decision once he saw that Sony* truly couldn't have done it in time.

 

*May have been the other way around. I use 'recall' in the ironic sense.


Originally Posted by igriv View Post
That would have been a bogus reason: "Google is charging us too much, so we are going to screw you guys [the users] over. Have a nice day!"

 

N…o.

 

 The right thing would have been to allow the users the choice between the (beta) Apple product and the Google product for another year, until iOS 7.0, and eat the licensing fee for that period (apple can certainly afford it).

 

Except the Google deal runs out before iOS 7's launch.


 In a year, with the benefit of user feedback, Maps would have been (and will be, one hopes) a much better product.

 

Oh, so you admit that all this is meaningless anyway, and that Maps is going to improve whether Google likes it or not.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Siri is Beta the same way that Gmail is beta: it is in wide public release, and you will only know it's beta if you read the fine print. Plus, remember that the S in the 4S stands for Siri. It is correct that Siri is nowhere near ready for prime time, and it should NOT have been so hyped. I am sure Forstall paid for that too.
 
When Forstall demoed Siri and Maps they were flawless demos with no caveat that they were essentially beta products. It was a case of over promising and under delivering. Eddy Cue doesn't seem to me to be interested in being a showman ala Steve like Forstall was. So I think we'll get more realism from Cook and Cue.
post #80 of 127
Eddy isn't going to fool around on this one. He's going to use whatever resources he can grab to fix the Maps & Siri mess. Even if it might mean taking away engineers from iTunes and delaying a new version. Oh, looks like he already did that.

Forstall wasn't fired, but was demoted to make his life miserable so he quits on his own probably to negate him receiving some kind of parting money, though he's probably mule enough to stick it out to his end date while scheming what he's going to do outside Apple.
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